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7/7. The Ripple Effect - a documentary by Muad'Dib
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They might well fear that if they mentioned such a thing, that their participation in such an exercise might not go do well with some of the more extreme elements in their own community.

They probably would not have mentioned it.


WATCH THE FILM:


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8756795263359807776&q=7%2F7+ ripple&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Muad is obviously utterly genuine in his efforts to expose the truth about 7/7.

7/7 Ripple Effect is no more than an evidence-free hypothesis, it can hardly be described as 'the truth' about 7/7. The government has shown it needs present no evidence for the official conspiracy theory and Maud'Dib and his supporters here have shown they require no evidence for their own version. Speculation and supposition does not equal truth, no matter how much you may wish it.

To send copies of this video to the families of the victims or to those that were injured that day shows little more than crass stupidity and breathtaking arrogance. It will not serve the purpose that you wish it will, on the contrary, it will give further ammunition to those who attack anyone who dares question the official version and alienate those who are conducting a serious campaign to uncover the truth about these events.

I'd like to say that 'you couldn't make it up', but between the government and Maud'Dib, you obviously can.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Muad is obviously utterly genuine in his efforts to expose the truth about 7/7.


I'd agree there

Quote:
7/7 Ripple Effect is no more than an evidence-free hypothesis, it can hardly be described as 'the truth' about 7/7. The government has shown it needs present no evidence for the official conspiracy theory and Maud'Dib and his supporters here have shown they require no evidence for their own version. Speculation and supposition does not equal truth, no matter how much you may wish it.


I wouldn't say it is evidence-free. It contains quite a lot of evidence (plus one or two minor errors), and seeks to give an exposition to a number of items not previously studied in Ludicrous Diversion or Mind The Gap
However I would agree that it uses these to spin a fully-fledged speculative scenario, which remains speculation. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, depending on who you're presenting it to. I think that it might well be best for people who are already doubtful at least of the OCT. I think it is particularly well-suited to a Muslim audience

Quote:
To send copies of this video to the families of the victims or to those that were injured that day shows little more than crass stupidity and breathtaking arrogance. It will not serve the purpose that you wish it will, on the contrary, it will give further ammunition to those who attack anyone who dares question the official version and alienate those who are conducting a serious campaign to uncover the truth about these events.


I wouldn't put it as strongly as that, but it did occur to me that this might be a counterproductive move, which is why I posted the communique up for comment

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

How about:
The video was made months before the actual events of 7/7 for totally 'seemingly' unrelated purposes. Maybe even under the guise of unrelated terrorist training; or even it was said that the video was going to form part of the "BBC documentary" that was screened in 2004, but didn't make the final cut. Making the video was a test, would they make the video and keep quiet about it? Or would they tell everyone in Leeds that they had made a video for 'security services training'.

They didn't know any of the details of the mock terror drill, maybe they thought it was driving around Leeds for a couple of hours in a hire car. Or flying to Paris and back, but they knew it was an all expenses trip out for the day and they were being paid a £1000. The 'cops' were going to try and catch them as terrorists. It's likely that they had done this kind of thing before, smaller 'missions' so thought nothing of it.

They were going to play the part of the terrorist actors in the drill, what the drill was they didn't know until they were shot or blown up. They probably didn't even know they were going to London, or board tube trains, or anything else. Until that morning in Leeds when they were given details of the hire car which would contain instructions on where they were to go. They were convinced it was like a big game that they were being well paid to keep it a secret. Nothing nefarious was being suspected by these guys, again it was like playing 'Call of Duty II' but getting paid for it, or something similar. So guys didn't bother telling anyone because there was really nothing to tell.

Yes this statement is pretty close to my view.
I also am certain they were either applicants for jobs within MI5 or applicants for a BBC game show. Certainly the 'videos' do not mention bombing the stations or anything else that links them to these attacks.
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.
Unlike all other events IRA and ETA etc in the past
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlos wrote:

Yes this statement is pretty close to my view.
I also am certain they were either applicants for jobs within MI5 or applicants for a BBC game show. Certainly the 'videos' do not mention bombing the stations or anything else that links them to these attacks.
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.
Unlike all other events IRA and ETA etc in the past


Yes. An associate found a pile of information leaflets from a Muslim legal firm, which one I can't remember or find at the moment though I think they were screwed over in some way quite recently, in a computer shop in the vicinity of the Beeston area,advising people what to do in the event of being approached by MI5 for recruitment, which suggests experience in the area.
Sorry - that's a bit vague relying on info from someone long fallen out with.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:

7/7 Ripple Effect is no more than an evidence-free hypothesis, it can hardly be described as 'the truth' about 7/7.

It is an evidence based hypothesis. Not complete but the closest thing we have in our arsenal.
Why are J7 so negative about the film?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlos wrote:
Prole wrote:

7/7 Ripple Effect is no more than an evidence-free hypothesis, it can hardly be described as 'the truth' about 7/7.

It is an evidence based hypothesis. Not complete but the closest thing we have in our arsenal.
Why are J7 so negative about the film?

J7 support any honest attempt to question the events of 7/7. What we can't support is conjecture and speculation masquerading as, in Maud'Dib's own words:
Quote:
"... what most likely really did happen that day.”

The focus of J7's campaign is to keep pressure on the PTB to prove their version, which they have repeatedly failed to do, rather than create more myths and distractions based on further evidence-free hypothesis.

There is also something strange and unsettling about his constant referral to the 4 accused as 'the Muslims'. Especially as it is difficult to understand Maud'Dib's own strongly held religious views which appear to be the basis for his website, JforJustice.

I'll post a link to the J7 review and rebuttal of 7/7 Ripple Effect when we put it live on the website.

Perhaps those who support sending a copy of this to the families of victims bear in mind the pain caused by the post-mortem reports that they recently received.

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Last edited by Prole on Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wright wrote:
karlos wrote:

Yes this statement is pretty close to my view.
I also am certain they were either applicants for jobs within MI5 or applicants for a BBC game show. Certainly the 'videos' do not mention bombing the stations or anything else that links them to these attacks.
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.
Unlike all other events IRA and ETA etc in the past


Yes. An associate found a pile of information leaflets from a Muslim legal firm, which one I can't remember or find at the moment though I think they were screwed over in some way quite recently, in a computer shop in the vicinity of the Beeston area,advising people what to do in the event of being approached by MI5 for recruitment, which suggests experience in the area.
Sorry - that's a bit vague relying on info from someone long fallen out with.

The firm is Arani & Co and the leaflet is available here.
Know Your Rights wrote:

IHRC and Arani & Co. have prepared this
brief guide due to concerns over the
harassment of Muslims and those identified
as ‘anti-Establishment’ by security
services in the UK. The current climate of
hostility and prejudice in the UK against
Muslims has increased the chances of
harassment. Already there have been
many complaints not only from activists
whose work is uncontroversial but
refugees, students, and even housewives
that they have been threatened or
approached by the police, intelligence or
security services.
We hope this guide will assist those who
are targeted in making informed choices
and resisting undue pressure brought to
bear on them if they find themselves in
these situations.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU ARE CONTACTED BY
MI5
• There is no obligation on you to answer
any of their questions.
• Do make sure that you obtain the MI5
officer(s) names and telephone number.
• State to the MI5 officer(s) that you
intend to seek legal advice.
• State to the MI5 officer(s) that your
solicitors will contact them.
• Do not try to be clever by talking.
• Do not think that MI5 officers are stupid.
• Do not discuss matters with MI5 officers
with regard to your movements or any
body else’s movements.
• Make a note of the time and place that
the MI5 officer(s) contacted you.
• If the MI5 officer(s) say anything to you
make a note of this.
• There is no obligation for you to work as
an MI5 agent.
• There is no obligation under the law for
you to answer any questions that MI5
officers put to you.
• Seek legal advice on this matter.
• Let the solicitors talk on your behalf.
WHAT TO DO WHEN CONTACTED BY SPECIAL
BRANCH ALSO KNOWN AS ANTI-TERRORIST
BRANCH
• Do not be misled by officers who state that
they need you to assist them.
• Do not talk to them regarding any matter.
• Take the officers’ names and telephone
numbers.
• State to the officer(s) that you need to seek
legal advice.
• State to the officer(s) that your solicitor will
contact them.
• Do not discuss any matters with them, walk
away once you have taken the officers’
names and numbers.



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Prole
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7/7 Ripple Effect - a rebuttal and rejection:

http://julyseventh.co.uk/j-for-justice-77-ripple-effect.html

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karlos
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure that Muad is a Muslim. His company seems to be called Jah publishing which implies not.
But we do know that the four accused victims were indeed Muslims.

I dont see why you need to post a rejection, most of his video is based on facts. Surely somebody has to do something positive.
We cant all be sitting on our hands waiting for the next false attack which Gordon Brown has already promised will be either a chemical or dirty bomb attack.

We need to counter the government spin with some spin of our own.
And then people can decide for themselves.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Prole
That's not a whole rejection
And you'd better get over calling him Maud
Keith - the original creator of julyseventh has found time to praise Muad's work

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wright wrote:
......
However I would agree that it uses these to spin a fully-fledged speculative scenario, which remains speculation. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, depending on who you're presenting it to. I think that it might well be best for people who are already doubtful at least of the OCT. I think it is particularly well-suited to a Muslim audience



Indeed.

....and J7's criticism of the film (link above) is obviously fair.

The question is this. In their position of trying to press for a proper Public Inquiry is it necessary that they contain their presentations within a respectful (and delusional) mainstream paradigm....i.e. that they continue working under the assumption that the powers they are appealing to are noble, honest paragons of virtue and integrity.

What did Jesus say about these powers?....that "Satan is Prince of this world."

This comment may not be very helpful.....but some of us believe that the J7 people will never get an Inquiry excepting perhaps after some kind of revolution. 7/7 was obviously an inside job and the people who directed it are the kind of people who select our top politicians for us to chose between.

We will only get a public Inquiry if these people think they can control its outcome.

All this reasoned pleading is not a waste of time because it keeps the obvious anomalies alive in the public mind ....but it won't get to the truth about 7/7.

Like 9/11 this is far too dangerous for all sorts of important people.

Muad Dib's got the right idea. Just tell it like you think it is.

Theory?.....perhaps.......but it's the one that fits IMO.......or at least the best one I've seen so far.

Also, I don't understand the exception taken to Muad's use of the term 'the Muslims'. 'The Muslims' have replaced the Soviets as a created and demonised enemy. It is quite appropriate for Muad to have repeatedly reminded us of it by using this jarring tag.


WATCH THE FILM:


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8756795263359807776&q=7%2F7+ ripple&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb0234 wrote:
Also, I don't understand the exception taken to Muad's use of the term 'the Muslims'. 'The Muslims' have replaced the Soviets as a created and demonised enemy. It is quite appropriate for Muad to have repeatedly reminded us of it by using this jarring tag.

Not a point that Maud bothered to make in the video though, despite his constant use of the term.

kb0234 wrote:
The question is this. In their position of trying to press for a proper Public Inquiry is it necessary that they contain their presentations within a respectful (and delusional) mainstream paradigm....i.e. that they continue working under the assumption that the powers they are appealing to are noble, honest paragons of virtue and integrity.

I see why 7/7 Ripple Effect appeals so much to you - unsubstantiated conjecture is also your preferred mode of reasoning.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes kbo
Quite right
We have to move this thing on and Muad's film might be a place to start

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole - every crime that people are trying to solve includes a reconstruction of some sort, and this is a very good one.
Personally i would have included more about the bus driver and ICTS/Fortress GB.
Hopefully that will be in version 2.
As kbo correctly states an inquiry will probably be rigged.
A criminal investigation and prosecution of the culprits is what is really required. We all know that all the evidence proves Mossad were responsible so why not shout it from the rooftops?
Just as important is for UK Muslims to lift their heads up out of the sand. Muslims were not responsible for 7/7.
Hopefully this film and others in the future will help break the spell.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:
paul wright wrote:
karlos wrote:

Yes this statement is pretty close to my view.
I also am certain they were either applicants for jobs within MI5 or applicants for a BBC game show. Certainly the 'videos' do not mention bombing the stations or anything else that links them to these attacks.
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.
Unlike all other events IRA and ETA etc in the past


Yes. An associate found a pile of information leaflets from a Muslim legal firm, which one I can't remember or find at the moment though I think they were screwed over in some way quite recently, in a computer shop in the vicinity of the Beeston area,advising people what to do in the event of being approached by MI5 for recruitment, which suggests experience in the area.
Sorry - that's a bit vague relying on info from someone long fallen out with.

The firm is Arani & Co and the leaflet is available here.
Know Your Rights wrote:

IHRC and Arani & Co. have prepared this
brief guide due to concerns over the
harassment of Muslims and those identified
as ‘anti-Establishment’ by security
services in the UK. The current climate of
hostility and prejudice in the UK against
Muslims has increased the chances of
harassment. Already there have been
many complaints not only from activists
whose work is uncontroversial but
refugees, students, and even housewives
that they have been threatened or
approached by the police, intelligence or
security services.
We hope this guide will assist those who
are targeted in making informed choices
and resisting undue pressure brought to
bear on them if they find themselves in
these situations.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU ARE CONTACTED BY
MI5
• There is no obligation on you to answer
any of their questions.
• Do make sure that you obtain the MI5
officer(s) names and telephone number.
• State to the MI5 officer(s) that you
intend to seek legal advice.
• State to the MI5 officer(s) that your
solicitors will contact them.
• Do not try to be clever by talking.
• Do not think that MI5 officers are stupid.
• Do not discuss matters with MI5 officers
with regard to your movements or any
body else’s movements.
• Make a note of the time and place that
the MI5 officer(s) contacted you.
• If the MI5 officer(s) say anything to you
make a note of this.
• There is no obligation for you to work as
an MI5 agent.
• There is no obligation under the law for
you to answer any questions that MI5
officers put to you.
• Seek legal advice on this matter.
• Let the solicitors talk on your behalf.
WHAT TO DO WHEN CONTACTED BY SPECIAL
BRANCH ALSO KNOWN AS ANTI-TERRORIST
BRANCH
• Do not be misled by officers who state that
they need you to assist them.
• Do not talk to them regarding any matter.
• Take the officers’ names and telephone
numbers.
• State to the officer(s) that you need to seek
legal advice.
• State to the officer(s) that your solicitor will
contact them.
• Do not discuss any matters with them, walk
away once you have taken the officers’
names and numbers.



Yes thanks and weren't the Arani folks in deep trouble recently?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A solicitor working for Abu Hamza's lawyer was jailed for one year today for smuggling two letters out of Belmarsh high security prison on behalf of a gunman she was representing.

Maya Devani, 26, was working for Muddassar Arani when she was caught on CCTV taking the letters from her client Timothy Merchant during a visit to the prison which aimed to establish his alibi to cover his role in two attempted murders.

The Old Bailey heard Devani's childhood dream was to be a solicitor but she was told she had "let" the profession down as the criminal justice system needed to be able to trust the integrity of solicitors.

Devani had been in the jail with her boss Ms Arani, whose clients include preacher of hate Abu Hamza. Ms Arani had visited another client and left Devani alone with Merchant.

Ms Arani was quizzed by prison officers over the affair, but was cleared of any wrongdoings.

Merchant, 29, was on remand for two shootings in north London when he handed over two envelopes for Devani to smuggle out which contained a plan to get him a false alibi.

She was due to smuggle the letters out - but prison officers spotted the exchange and when Devani was searched they discovered the letters contained detailed instructions from the prisoner to a friend, Mustafa Abdullah, about his upcoming trial.

Merchant had urged Mr Abdullah to pretend he had bought a car used in the shootings and had allowed a friend to take it for a test drive. In truth Merchant, himself had used to car to carry out the gun attacks.

Merchant also recruited a fellow inmate on remand at Belmarsh, Mohammed Choudhary, 27, to make three telephone calls to Mr Abdullah in order to arrange an alibi for Merchant.

Devani, a solicitor for Arani & Co, had told prison staff the letters were part of her client's legal paperwork when challenged as she left Belmarsh on January 25 last year.

In fact Merchant, of West Brompton, had shot Billy Charlton in revenge for getting his brother jailed for attempted robbery as he sat in his car. Passenger Deon Jones was also hit in the crossfire.

Jailing bespectacled Devani, of Harrow, north west London, for perverting the course of justice, Judge Paul Focke QC said only a custodial sentence would reflect the "nature of the seriousness of the offence."

He said: "I bear in mind from an early age you were determined to be a lawyer and I think from the age of 12 it was your wish to practice in law.

"I also take in account the stigma attached to you but also recognise the concern it caused your family and the anguish it caused.

"I take into account this was not a careful premeditated act on your behalf. What happened was in a foolish moment you decided to help Merchant fabricate his false evidence.

"You knew perfectly well what you were doing when you took the document that he handed you folded up in a piece of paper.

"I also take into account that you had already given notice to Arani & Co and you had little to gain from helping Merchant in his dishonest enterprise."

Judge Focke QC added: "The authorities need to be able to trust and rely on the integrity of solicitors. You let them down.

Her barrister Simon Farrell told the court Devani had only qualified as a solicitor in November 2004, aged just 24, and specialised in family law and had very little experience of criminal law.

And because of her conviction, she had "suffered public disgrace."

A "quirk of fate" conspired against her, namely that Arani & Co were so busy that she was drafted into criminal work and she should not have been allowed to visit Merchant alone.

Mr Farrell said: "There is no exaggeration to point out to this court this conviction had had a devastating effect on her life and her families, all of whom are in the public gallery today.

"She found herself completely out of her depth in Belmarsh."

"She had the misfortune to come into contact with a serious criminal on whose behalf she was acting when at Arani & Co. That presented her with a nightmare scenario."

On the day she tried to smuggle the letters out, she had handed in her notice at Arani & Co because she was moving back to the Midlands to get married.

Merchant was sentenced to two years for perverting the course of justice and 16 years each for the two attempted murders - to run consecutively meaning he must spend 18 years behind bars.

Mark Dennis, prosecuting, earlier told the court that Devani was involved "in a dishonest attempt to create a false defence" for Merchant by leaving the prison with his "written instructions" for an alibi to distance himself from the getaway car.

Days after Merchant’s younger brother was sentenced to nine years for a hold-up at a convenience store, a witness in the case was hit by five bullets as he sat in a car.

Mr Dennis said the victim was lucky to survive Merchant’s "act of retaliation".

When Merchant realised that an important piece of evidence, namely a piece of paper with his details on, linking him with the attack was found in a car, he recruited his solicitor to help him.

Merchant had claimed he was praying in his mosque at the time of the shooting in Islington, north London on August 2, 2004.

Choudhary, 25, of no fixed abode, was jailed for life in July this year for murder and must serve a minimum of 25 years behind bars before being considered for parole.

He was given nine months imprisonment for perverting the course of justice, to be added onto his 25 year minimum prison sentence.

Abdullah, of Stockwell, south London, was cleared of perverting the course of justice at the trial in June this year

Copyright © 2007 National News +44(0)207 684 3000
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlos wrote:
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.


Quote:
A group called The Secret Organisation of al-Qaida in Europe today said it carried out the series of blasts in London in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The group's statement appeared on a website popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news website, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which both published the text on their sites.


Guardian

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:


.......unsubstantiated conjecture.......



Mmm.......I don't think so.

It is unsubstantiated conjecture in much the same way that the judiciary pardoned Timothy Evans for the murder of his wife after they discovered that he and his wife had been sharing their house with and serial killer of females.

They didn't prove Evans was innocent (after all, he had confessed to the crime) but they just brought their whole experience and intelligence to the situation.....


.....although I believe Christie did confess to this crime before he was hanged.

.......But this wasn't really 'sustantiated evidence' either, was it?

At least the feeble-minded Evans initially protested his innocence. Those poor Muslim lads didn't even get the chance to deny that they were mass-murderers.
.


Last edited by kbo234 on Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WATCH THE FILM:


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8756795263359807776&q=7%2F7+ ripple&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Wright wrote:
.. and weren't the Arani folks in deep trouble recently?

As part of the 21/7 trial Muddassar Arani is accused of trying to bribe Manfo Asiedu who turned against his co-defendants.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of you think that Maud has an agenda? Or perhaps you don't think it matters what he believes?
Quote:
After Mohammed's death the Meccans changed the Koran and betrayed him and God.

Mecca has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Abraham; Ishmael; Isaac or God.

God tells people repeatedly in the Koran to read the Bible e.g. Sura 6:154-157). The Meccans then claim that the Almighty God has allowed the Book, that He commands people to read, to have been lost forever. That is not logical and is an insult to God.

Of course the True Bible still exists as confirmed by God Himself in His Holy Koran (Sura 32:23) and the most accurate translation of The Bible in print is still the Authorised king James Bible in the old English, as confirmed by the "Dead Sea Scroll" of the Book of Isaiah (referred to in Sura 52:2-3) which in no way differs from the Book of Isaiah in the king James Bible.

Therefore the moslems are calling God a liar, which is a satanic thing to do. Satan called God a liar in the Garden of Eden and God condemned Adam and Eve for believing Satan's lies. These satanic lies are now being continued by the moslems when they contradict God by saying that the True Bible no longer exists, after God has told us in His Holy Koran - Sura 32:23 that:-

"We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE - the readers of this Koran - moslems): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel."

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only claim for 7/7 appeared on a public messageboard/forum just like this.
It has been debunked as a hoax even by the police.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:
Do any of you think that Maud has an agenda? Or perhaps you don't think it matters what he believes?
Quote:
After Mohammed's death the Meccans changed the Koran and betrayed him and God.

Mecca has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Abraham; Ishmael; Isaac or God.

God tells people repeatedly in the Koran to read the Bible e.g. Sura 6:154-157). The Meccans then claim that the Almighty God has allowed the Book, that He commands people to read, to have been lost forever. That is not logical and is an insult to God.

Of course the True Bible still exists as confirmed by God Himself in His Holy Koran (Sura 32:23) and the most accurate translation of The Bible in print is still the Authorised king James Bible in the old English, as confirmed by the "Dead Sea Scroll" of the Book of Isaiah (referred to in Sura 52:2-3) which in no way differs from the Book of Isaiah in the king James Bible.

Therefore the moslems are calling God a liar, which is a satanic thing to do. Satan called God a liar in the Garden of Eden and God condemned Adam and Eve for believing Satan's lies. These satanic lies are now being continued by the moslems when they contradict God by saying that the True Bible no longer exists, after God has told us in His Holy Koran - Sura 32:23 that:-

"We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE - the readers of this Koran - moslems): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel."

Anyone care to comment on this? Stelios/Karlos? Kbo234?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:
Do any of you think that Maud has an agenda? Or perhaps you don't think it matters what he believes?



Is this an 'agenda'?

He seems to me to be more like a strong and committed believer in God who is adamantly directing people's attention to changes in biblical or Koranic texts that were made for self-serving and, therefore, wicked purposes.

I have no idea if he is right or not......but what he is asserting is a very serious matter within its own frame of reference.

In a way it looks to me like more of the same (as in 'Ripple Effect').....using his highly developed critical faculties to debunk a perception that is common currency and to expose the wickedness that hides behind these lies.

Maybe Muad Dib is unusually interested in the truth of things.

That is how he appears to me anyway.....and though he is certainly an unusual fellow I find nothing sinister in him and, even if I don't share his belief system, I can see nothing but merit in his passion that biblical belief and human perception in general be based on truth and not lies.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Prole wrote:
Do any of you think that Maud has an agenda? Or perhaps you don't think it matters what he believes?


Is this an 'agenda'?

He seems to me to be more like a strong and committed believer in God who is adamantly directing people's attention to changes in biblical or Koranic texts that were made for self-serving and, therefore, wicked purposes.

I have no idea if he is right or not......but what he is asserting is a very serious matter within its own frame of reference.

In a way it looks to me like more of the same (as in 'Ripple Effect').....using his highly developed critical faculties to debunk a perception that is common currency and to expose the wickedness that hides behind these lies.

Maybe Muad Dib is unusually interested in the truth of things.

That is how he appears to me anyway.....and though he is certainly an unusual fellow I find nothing sinister in him and, even if I don't share his belief system, I can see nothing but merit in his passion that biblical belief and human perception in general be based on truth and not lies.

I think a statement such as this certainly betrays an agenda, especially in the context of 7/7 Ripple Effect:
Maud'Dib wrote:
..Therefore the moslems are calling God a liar, which is a satanic thing to do. Satan called God a liar in the Garden of Eden and God condemned Adam and Eve for believing Satan's lies. These satanic lies are now being continued by the moslems ..

Would 'The Muslims' so often referred to in 7/7 Ripple Effect not take offense at such views?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:


Would 'The Muslims' so often referred to in 7/7 Ripple Effect not take offense at such views?



We cannot know about those particular Muslims but, in terms of devout Muslims in general, you're certainly correct. They seem to be loathe to tolerate attacks of any kind against their religion and their prophet.

But Muad is on the side of the 4 Muslims in his film.

Maybe he hates man's lies but loves all that God has made?

I'm not understanding precisely what you think that Muad is up to that is sinister.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
karlos wrote:
No claim of responsibilty was made for 7/7 by ANYONE.


Quote:
A group called The Secret Organisation of al-Qaida in Europe today said it carried out the series of blasts in London in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The group's statement appeared on a website popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news website, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which both published the text on their sites.


Guardian


karlos wrote:
The only claim for 7/7 appeared on a public messageboard/forum just like this.
It has been debunked as a hoax even by the police.


That's very interesting Karlos.

I didn't know that.

Do you have a link?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Prole wrote:


Would 'The Muslims' so often referred to in 7/7 Ripple Effect not take offense at such views?



We cannot know about those particular Muslims but, in terms of devout Muslims in general, you're certainly correct. They seem to be loathe to tolerate attacks of any kind against their religion and their prophet.

But Muad is on the side of the 4 Muslims in his film.

Maybe he hates man's lies but loves all that God has made?

I'm not understanding precisely what you think that Muad is up to that is sinister.

Firstly, the them and us tone of your reply is telling. I assume you are a Christian.

I wasn't using Maud's term of 'The Muslims' to refer to the 4 accused, I had already stated that this term was suspicious. After reading some of his website, this term made more sense to me.

Maud'Dib has an agenda, which is painfully obvious from his website. He includes references to Muslim beliefs that would be perceived as offensive. He may THINK he KNOWS the TRUTH about God and man etc etc. He may THINK he KNOWS the TRUTH about what really happened on July 7th.

That he may well be mistaken in all of these beliefs does not seem to occur to some people here who are always ready to jump on the latest bandwagon, whether this takes the form of James Casbolt, Daniel 7:7 4thBomb or Maud'Dib's 7/7 Ripple Effect. You want the ease of answers without the painful processes of questioning, understanding and changing.

Doesn't the role and power of 'dis-information' ever occur to you?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reassured by J7's response to this film. I certainly wouldn't recommend sending this to J7 families.

Firstly I agree there is too much speculation wrapped up as fact as J7's response highlights

Second, it is clear that Muad does have a wider agenda. No problem with that. So do I. The problem comes when there are parts of this wider agenda that do not reflect well on the 'ripple effect' and would be used by our critics to discredit J7 truth by association if J7 endorsed it. To give an example, the reproduction in full of 'the protocols' on his/her website and the use of the protocols as a gateway through which to understand the wider age old conspiracy (which IMO is undoubtedly true) can and would be used to brand this voice as 'anti-jewish'. Now I know the argument can be made that the protocols refer to a hidden zionist elite (blah-de-blah) and not to jewish people in general, but given the infamy of the protocols and given the use to which Hitler put them to to justify the persecution of all jews and not just a zionist elite, any one using the protocols as a pathway to the 'truth' sets my radar off I'm afraid, regardless of what else may be truthful on the site.

Lastly, unless it is clear who Muad is, there is danger that if and when their identity is known, then their background again MAY not reflect well on J7. Sure it can be argued that the makers of Mind the Gap or Ludicrous Diversion are also anonymous, but they are known to J7 campaigners.

So in brief, watch it, take from it the bits of information that you find useful, but that's as far as it goes IMO.

FYI Muad appears to v occasionally post here under the 'cybe' username
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/search.php?search_author=cybe

As J7 wisely advise, question everything. [After all we are still waiting for Daniel O to give us an explanation of his 'account' of visiting Rachel's flat in his book, the 4th bomb, an account flatly contradicted by Rachel. His reluctance to do so makes me question the validity of the rest of his account.]
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