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'9/11 is the Litmus Test' - a recap and appeal...

 
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Thermate911
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: '9/11 is the Litmus Test' - a recap and appeal... Reply with quote

Quote:
For those of you who know that this [9/11] is all a lie, I ask you not to go to work on March 19th in protest of this event and all of the events that have followed. I ask the residents of every nation on Earth to take this day off from your usual duties and stand down in protest of the terrible lies and events that cloud our existence and circumscribe our freedoms. Send a message. Stop the machine. See your power and in seeing it, expand it.


http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2008/02/911-is-litmus-test.html

Les Visible
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Fri, 22 Feb 2008

There is one thing that defines everyone over the course of these early years of this new century. That thing is the 9/11 attack. Everyone in government and every field of endeavor the world over is defined by their position on this event. It is not necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary to know the extent of the lies in order to define any leader in any position anywhere in the world. By what they have said and by what they have not said, one can accurately judge who is an enemy of the people's of the world. One can accurately determine who is a tool of the psychopaths or one of them.

Think about what you allow yourself to know. Think about what you pass by; ignore, deny and defend ...that defines you. It defines the degree of your personal courage, your relationship to the truth, your values, your principles and what you will pass on to your children and everyone you meet. It tells you in that place where your conscience must once have lived whether you are a hypocrite and a fool or whether something greater still lives within you.

Nineteen men pass through airport security. Eleven of them are stopped and questioned but then allowed to board. Several large passenger planes wind up hijacked and flown at high speed into enormous buildings. None of these men had shown previous capacity to accomplish this feat. These men were armed with box cutters. No jet fighters were scrambled to intercept these planes, although the authorities in charge of such actions knew immediately what was happening. Airport traffic controllers were ordered to destroy all recorded evidence of the event. Some of them physically broke the CD's and scattered the pieces into different trash containers at the airports.

Within hours, three of the biggest buildings in the city, buildings designed to absorb the impact of the very planes which hit them, all crumbled into their own footprints at the speed of free fall. It was said that the fire, which burned below the melting point of steel, caused this to happen. No fire in history had previously accomplished such a thing, not once. Previous fires had burned hotter and longer, yet no building fell. Now, three have fallen in one day. Months later the wreckage burned white hot beneath the surface and clear cuts in support beams were photographed.

A passport from one of the hijackers appears on a city street undamaged. Cars are discovered at airports with flight training videos and Korans. Apparently the men who were deeply religious enough to give their lives to attack these buildings thought nothing of leaving their sacred texts behind. Some weeks later, seven of the alleged hijackers are found to be alive in their native countries.

Some days earlier some of these men were observed drinking and having lap dances in a Florida bar. This sort of behavior is not normal for such men as these. Around the same time, the ringleader of these men and some associates were observed by the FBI boarding a gambling boat belonging to Jack Abramoff. These men were tracked to Las Vegas and watched by the FBI, yet they passed through the airport security checkpoints. Even though eleven of them were stopped and questioned they still boarded.

On the day of the event several men were observed videotaping the attack as it happened. They were seen to be dancing and celebrating as well. The police stopped and arrested them. They were found to be Mossad agents. Some time later they were quietly released and returned to their home country with no reasons given. The men videotaping and celebrating had to have known about the attack in advance in order to have been in a position to film it. Members of the Bin Laden family; the man accused of masterminding the attack, were immediately flown out of the country. Bin Laden denied any connection to this attack. Direct evidence of this exists and no evidence of his admitting his involvement exists. All of this is fabrication and hearsay. No one can present such information other than one fabricated video that was proven false by the world's leading forensic experts in Switzerland. Many insist it is true but no one has such evidence. Go look. Bring it to me. ... ...

--

more, including the quote, at:-

http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2008/02/911-is-litmus-test.html

ps re: 'The men videotaping and celebrating had to have known about the attack in advance in order to have been in a position to film it' - Personally I don't consider this a very useful argument but then there's the Naudet Bros...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved to articles but may be better as an event?

Is this in some way an event in competition with the 15 April Aaron Russo inspired event?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: This controversial stuff can be used to feed more WAR Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The psy-op line is among the hardest to swallow of all of Wood's claims.

She refers to things such as "decoy squibs" - the general idea being to paint a picture where all of the solid evidence for controlled demolition, for molten metal, for the use of incendiaries was faked to throw people off the path to DEW.

There are 2 problems with this:

1) It's the same crime.

What is the difference between the sentence for mass murder with explosives and mass muder with a beam.

None.

But there is a difference between the two claims:

2) The evidence for CD is solid, whereas the case for DEW is wholely theoretical - they planted evidence for the stronger case to distact attention from the non-existent case?

They created REAL EVIDENCE of a mass murder which could only have been perpertrated from within the establishment, evidence they cannot erase, in order to throw people off the scent of THE EXACT SAME CRIME commited through a different method, for which there was NO EVIDENCE and the nature of which meant it would never be taken seriously....

Does this not at all ring alarm bells, Keith, that DEW is the psy-op and CD is the truth which is being attacked? Why can some people not see this?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Keith - a superb summary.

Oddly Stefan still seems to support "Pure CD" when we now have strong evidence which can't be explained by CD.

1) Upturned Cars
2) Witness reporting an ambulance being lifted off him when he hid under it.
3) Metal effects such as bending beams into a loop which explosives can't do
4) Spontaneous car fires before the main collapse and reported by witnesses.
5) Rapid rusting of steel.
6) Holes in the street

etc etc

This leaves those supporting traditional CD alone in the essentially the same position as those supporting the official story - they ignore the evidence which doesn't fit the theory. (And this isn't the same as saying the DEW alone caused all the damage, but the evidence indicates it as the primary destruction method).

Looks like Stefan and others are happy to ignore evidence posted in the web pages and videos we've done. Stefan is therefore likely do draw incorrect conclusions.

In any case, I hope Stefan is working on a legal case to present CD evidence in court - perhaps he can get a group together in the States and do it? He seems to know enough and be confident enough - should be a doddle!

If no one is doing something along these lines, then what's the point of 9/11 truth campaign? To stand around and ask for the government(s) to invesigate itself/themselves again?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Oddly Stefan still seems to support "Pure CD" when we now have strong evidence which can't be explained by CD.


Oddly Andrew can't address me directly...

Quote:
1) Upturned Cars

2) Witness reporting an ambulance being lifted off him when he hid under it.


This is something that puzzles me about the DEW theory - how does upturned cars support it?

Cars might be turned over by horizontal explosive force from the lower part of the building - how would they be turned over by a downwardly directed energy weapon?

Quote:
3) Metal effects such as bending beams into a loop which explosives can't do


Are you certain of that?

Quote:
4) Spontaneous car fires before the main collapse and reported by witnesses.


Compelling, but by no means exclusively suggestive of DEW..

Quote:
5) Rapid rusting of steel.


I'm yet to see convincing evidence of this.

Quote:
6) Holes in the street


Explosives under the complex/falling debris - there are other explanations which don't suggest DEW

Quote:
This leaves those supporting traditional CD alone in the essentially the same position as those supporting the official story - they ignore the evidence which doesn't fit the theory. (And this isn't the same as saying the DEW alone caused all the damage, but the evidence indicates it as the primary destruction method).


How exactly do you explain the "psy-op" line as proposed by Wood and Co?

Seriously Andrew, can't you see (or should I follow your example and say "Seriously Keith, doesn't Andrew see) that this is a classic example of dismissing all inconvenient evidence?

Squibs = Decoy Squibs
Molten Metal Stream = Faked Video
Videos of Planes = Faked Videos of Planes
Reports of Molten Metal in Debris = Lies
Reports of Planes = Lies
Thermal Photographs = Fakes and Lies
Reports of explosions inside the building = Lies
The impossibility of anything other than a plane making the hole in the building = Universally ignored by all no-plane proponents

Quote:
Looks like Stefan and others are happy to ignore evidence posted in the web pages and videos we've done. Stefan is therefore likely do draw incorrect conclusions.


No - I am happy to look at this evidence and draw conclusions that some is unexplained and mysterious, some is easily attributed to CD and other causes and some is downright misleading.

Quote:
In any case, I hope Stefan is working on a legal case to present CD evidence in court - perhaps he can get a group together in the States and do it? He seems to know enough and be confident enough - should be a doddle!


No he isn't because he is neither lawyer nor a rich man. He would happily support any group which did so to the limit of his means.

Quote:
If no one is doing something along these lines, then what's the point of 9/11 truth campaign? To stand around and ask for the government(s) to invesigate itself/themselves again?


No. My aim is not an investigation - it is to wake people up. If we reach a critical mass of people who are aware of the real world behind the stage set then we have a chance for genuine change. I'd support an investigation as this would draw awareness to the issue - but my aim is for people to take their blindfolds off and start looking at the world. We don't need to know every in and out of what happened on 9/11 - we probably never will - knowing that it was an inside job is sufficient.

No one person can change the world - but the world is made up of lots of iduviduals, and if every induvidual stood up today, as one, the PTB would fall.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:15 am    Post subject: Struggling for common ground and civility when disagreeing Reply with quote

I do disagree about the evidence of molten metal being reliable, for reasons outlined at some length by Wood in the references above, whose arguments/evidence seem strong to me. I could be wrong, but your not challenging the Wood/Reynolds challenge to the reality of the molten metal reports/video/pictures doesn't take me any closer to agreement with you on that one.

We do agree about Destruction of the towers by Insiders. Yes, it is the SAME CRIME of MURDER, War Crime, etc, however effected.

However what we saw (and were perceptually coached not to see) wouldn't have been SO scarily weird if ordinary CD had been used, so wouldn't have served to traumatise and overawe and confuse and mind-abuse the psyche of the American/global public so thoroughly. (Like ritual slaughter of the President on the 33rd parallel - see Kris Miligan's essay in his great Skull and Bones book: its very brazen-ness and publicness is essential for max effect.)

But just as the FFT Designers built in a series of fall-back positions regarding who us lot should go after for 911 if and when the official story started to crumble - Saudis [Michael Moore] , then Pakistanis, then 'the Jews' (i.e. as Jews, beyond the empirical question concerning the degree of high-level Israeli-Zionist), and now this Thermate-linked AL-Qaeda-Saddam-French connection story is coming up on the rails fast, I fear

, so they also had a series of cover stories for people to be fobbed off with concerning the modus operandi and technoligies involved: beginning with the BBC, etc all assuring us that aircraft fuel could melt steel buildings -
whose core was 'essentially a hollow shaft' (that'll be right).

These claims were such bs to those who knew that it was only a matter of time before by collective learning and sharing of knowledge as we do on the web [at our best] that good websites emerged on the physics of the building collapses, despite maximum efforts deployed to keep us arguing on less clear cut ground: LIHOP and how the spooks should have stopped them but were blocked by other spooks/agencies, for instance.

When it became clear that the 911 truth movement kept making its way, albeit often wasting energy in huge feuds about how the planes were substituted or hijacked electronically or had missile pod underneath it, etc ....

the decision was taken to send in Prof Jones to gain ascendancy by first going along with us, and then shifting our eggs into the Thermite basket.

A) this meant attention was diverted from the really big secrets = power, concerning 'Black' Technology, the involvement of a huge section of the Military Industrial complex - not just a few bad guards like Marvin Bush and Wirt Winkler III who let the Thermite-bringing really bad guys (=Muslims) into the camp - just as Cheney might need to be sacrificed (as Mineta has prepared gthe ground for) for supposedly letting 'the planes' [dots on screens] arrive/'arrive' without being stopped by air-defences;

B ) It also meant that 911 Truth was open to counter-attack by physicists - as in the Journal of 911 Studies Debunking. YES I agree that the speed should be decisive - and have argued for years on that basis, but the breakthrough still eludes us. Putting eggs in the Thermite basket enables defenders of the OCT to score cheap points without facing the speed of 'collapse' = destruction clincher.

C ) if that doesn't divert or block the tide of 911 truth then at least 'they' had another trick up their sleeve - With one bound they are free ! - or hope to get free e.g. maybe a false flag event attributed to Al-Q in Iraq working with Saddam die-hards [Bin Laden video, and cue a spate of internet rumours that Saddam didn't really die, just a double! ] - the same Al-Q in Iraq who smugggled in the themite and infiltrated the Towers !

So I agree about CD at WTC7 but do believe that for reasons of capturing the public imagination aka deprogramming from the War-on-Terror Myth and Civic Religion/National Security cult that that won't (alas carry us unless a new paradigm emerges which addresses the source of the mind-abuse that day. Our minds don't work by abstract logic alone - as shown by several failed attempts to prove to loved family members that 911 was an Inside job by refeence to Apples falling fasger through apples than air .... and the top floor of a building falling slower through the building than if it falls through air ...

I don't agree about conventional CD at the twin towers, and am suspicious of the figures being cited by FEMA et al about the scale of the shipping out of steel. But I do agree that some conventional explosives, enanced by thermite or not, may have been used on 9/11 - not just in the clean up. If they did trial an extraordinary new kind of technology that day, and it was central - not just peripheral - in its destructive impact that day - then they wouldn't want that fact to be known - "Now how do we father that on Bin Laden? " - so it isn't impossible that some squib effects could have been built in - especially since they stood ready to attribute them to compressed air escapng through shafts, etc until they might need to fall back on the big switch to imported Thermite.

I find people are really intrigued by the toasted cars phenomena, so if it is a psyop dead end, then I guess it will distract some people (like me Wink for a while. If it isn't a psyop, then I think it will bring new energy to our cause of truth.

But ultimately I think it will be recognised that the destruction of - and residuum following - the destruction of WTC7 were just so different from what the fall of the towers looked like
, together with the weird pattern of damage to the other buildings in the complex and the relative lack of remains after WTC2 and 1 'fell' .

But on this last point I do think that Wood has some way to go to clinch her argument. (Interestingly, so had Einstein some way to go - but his theory caught on prior/the paradigm shifted prior to the experiment which finally clinched it, I understand. )

On your side you also will also need to keep checking the evidence m(and your heart) in case you are in denial or 'adding epicycles' ... for example if you think Andrew's Point 4

Quote:
Spontaneous car fires before the main collapse and reported by witnesses.


is
Quote:
"Compelling, but by no means exclusively suggestive of DEW.. "


What else might it be, do you reckon? (leaving aside the debunked explantions and side-arguments at the margin of this phenomenon, which is actually well-attested from observers on the day, as well as car-insurance companies, garages, etc, I dare say, though that last bit is an assumption, I grant you.)

I don't dismiss as lies (or one could also say mistakes, NB) the reports of explosions inside the buildings, e.g from WillaimRodrigues. Though lots of other weird sounds seem to have occured. I do question whether those explosions were the main thing which brought the towers down.


On the No planes question, I repeat that it is logically separate from DEW or WEP (Weird Energy Phenomena). But as it happens I do also commend the fine DETAILED work of both Andrew

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&tas k=view&id=134&Itemid=60

and Morgan Reynolds
http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&subpage1=original_no_planers

which suggests that the bulk of the first witnesses were the original 'no-planers'. Surely you would agree that it is common practice to plant false witnesses for the media early on - e.g. 'Richard Jones' in Tavistock Sq on 7/7. Perception management and the inculcation of false 'memories' can also be part of the picture, though they don't rule out weirder stuff in this 'planes' dept either, as Dallas will be pleased to know.

At any rate I don't think it is fair for you to accuse Wood and Johnson of denying all the evidence they don't like, when they have faced a lot of weird and difficult issues.

What do you think about their stuff on Molten metals, and this stuff on Eyewitness reports?

You didn't answer when I tried to solicit your support against our esteemed Moderator's possible inclination to whisk perfectly good discussions such as this off to 'Controversial theories', when lots of other really controversial stuff is regularly allowed higher up the Index .....?

I did agree with this bit of your post though!

Quote:
My aim is not an investigation - it is to wake people up. If we reach a critical mass of people who are aware of the real world behind the stage set then we have a chance for genuine change. I'd support an investigation as this would draw awareness to the issue - but my aim is for people to take their blindfolds off and start looking at the world.


Not primarily an investigation, I would have written. But/and a decent Euro Investigation could certainly help people awaken, and would resonate a lot in the USA, in a way a UN or Non-Aligned Group investigation wouldn't.

As always we need to keep on awakening ourselves and do the Inner Work so we can help others realise about the Inside Job.

Cheers Stefan. see you in March, Keith

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will post a fuller reply to the bulk of your text later Keith (at work now), but to make my position on controversies clear:

I support No-Plane Theory variants remaining in controversies

I support DEW Theory variants remaining in controversies

I would happily agree to Thermate/mite theories also being in controversies since it is clearly contentious

In a sense any detailed theory is in essence controversial because it must involve no small amount of speculation, and is essentially unnecceary and a side persuit to demonstrating and campaigning on the patent falsity of the official conspiracy theory, which is the meat and potatoes of our campaign.

However -

I do not agree mentions of hijackers should be a controversial issue - here is why:

The rational and most credible way of dealing with a lie like 9/11 is to take it piece by piece and do all we can to make the questions remaining as loud as we can make them, to demonstrate falsities where they exist.

We start we the OTC because that is where the people who are our auidence (the initiated to deep politics) are - and we disprove things.

Providing replacement theories should be seen as a somewhat separate pursuit and one I would prefer to leave to qualified scientists.

We do not KNOW there was no element of hijacking involved - to assume this is to start from a position where the official story is 100% false and piece by piece dream up alternatives.

This is not credible and is not going to catch the ear of the people we are actually trying to get through to - it feels to me that if we go down this road we become a "conspiracy club" and not a campaign.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: '9/11 is the Litmus Test' - a recap and appeal... Reply with quote

Thermate911 wrote:
Airport traffic controllers were ordered to destroy all recorded evidence of the event. Some of them physically broke the CD's and scattered the pieces into different trash containers at the airports.

This is slightly incorrect. The recordings were made on audio tape, and the tape was cut into pieces.
Quote:

Controllers' 9/11 Tape Destroyed, Report Says

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 7, 2004; Page A02

Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later destroyed by a Federal Aviation Administration manager, according to a government investigative report issued yesterday.

...

The report found that an FAA manager tape-recorded an hour-long interview with the controllers just hours after the hijacked aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania. His intention was to provide the information quickly to the FBI. But months after the recording, the tape was never turned over to the FBI and another FAA manager decided on his own to destroy the tape, crushing it with his hand, cutting it into small pieces and depositing the pieces into several trash cans, the report said.

...

The FAA yesterday said it had taken disciplinary action against the employee who destroyed the tape. That manager, identified by a source familiar with the investigation as Kevin Delaney, was last week given a 20-day suspension without pay. Delaney appealed that decision, the source said, confirming a report last night by Newsday. The employee who recorded the tape, Mike McCormick, was not subject to a disciplinary procedure and is in Iraq for the FAA, helping to set up an air traffic control system, the source added.

...



Thermate911 wrote:

Within hours, three of the biggest buildings in the city, buildings designed to absorb the impact of the very planes which hit them, all crumbled into their own footprints at the speed of free fall.

Again, a slight technical inaccuracy. The Twin Towers collapse symmetrically about their footprints, but most of the debris actually fell outside of the footprint.

These are the kinds of minor technical inaccuracies the psyop parasites latch onto with a vengeance. Anything that can seed a twinge of doubt in the mind of the uninformed reader can be used to undermine confidence in the source, and in anything contrary to the OCT.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To argue that Professor Jonses' late entry into the 911 movement puts a question mark against him is to argue that every physicist that has not stood up to be counted is complicit. IE it is just plain daft.

To argue that the thermate angle is some sort of cunning plan that involves al Qaeda being blamed for its placement is bizzare.

Can anyone really believe that NIST and the government can now turn round and say we have spent the last 7 years defending the literally impossible free fall but now we accept that and declare that al Qaeda smuggled in thermate and somehow strategically placed it in the towers?

That would be the end of them full stop.

The official story would be as effectively demolished as the towers - by their own hand.

The link to DEW Judy Wood put in the appeal to NIST which she claimed supported her contention that DEW was used is evidence enough that this woman is at best cavalier in her approach to the matter. To my mind she is either a fantasist or a plant.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting the way this thread has gone off down the rabbit hole again. The central issue of Les's article is to my mind embedded in the first two paragraphs - paragraphs that nobody here seems willing to comment on:-

Quote:
There is one thing that defines everyone over the course of these early years of this new century. That thing is the 9/11 attack. Everyone in government and every field of endeavor the world over is defined by their position on this event. It is not necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary to know the extent of the lies in order to define any leader in any position anywhere in the world. By what they have said and by what they have not said, one can accurately judge who is an enemy of the people's of the world. One can accurately determine who is a tool of the psychopaths or one of them.

Think about what you allow yourself to know. Think about what you pass by; ignore, deny and defend ...that defines you. It defines the degree of your personal courage, your relationship to the truth, your values, your principles and what you will pass on to your children and everyone you meet. It tells you in that place where your conscience must once have lived whether you are a hypocrite and a fool or whether something greater still lives within you.


Let's quit already with those divisive aspects of 9/11 that just cannot be proven until we convene another Nuremberg (and maybe not even then!).

Surely we know enough now to clearly understand who initiated this vile deed and why? The mechanism is entirely secondary to the deed, IMO.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thermate911 wrote:
Interesting the way this thread has gone off down the rabbit hole again. The central issue of Les's article is to my mind embedded in the first two paragraphs - paragraphs that nobody here seems willing to comment on:-

Quote:
There is one thing that defines everyone over the course of these early years of this new century. That thing is the 9/11 attack. Everyone in government and every field of endeavor the world over is defined by their position on this event. It is not necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary to know the extent of the lies in order to define any leader in any position anywhere in the world. By what they have said and by what they have not said, one can accurately judge who is an enemy of the people's of the world. One can accurately determine who is a tool of the psychopaths or one of them.

Think about what you allow yourself to know. Think about what you pass by; ignore, deny and defend ...that defines you. It defines the degree of your personal courage, your relationship to the truth, your values, your principles and what you will pass on to your children and everyone you meet. It tells you in that place where your conscience must once have lived whether you are a hypocrite and a fool or whether something greater still lives within you.


Let's quit already with those divisive aspects of 9/11 that just cannot be proven until we convene another Nuremberg (and maybe not even then!).

Surely we know enough now to clearly understand who initiated this vile deed and why? The mechanism is entirely secondary to the deed, IMO.


Hear, hear!!

I suppose that if these issues are going to be discussed anywhere then this is the site for it but can we keep this stuff to the 'controversies' section.

I'm not interested in any of this material. The details of the how are just not important. The important thing is making people aware that the only explanation that can reasonably be drawn from the available evidence is that 9/11 was an 'inside job'.

....that the 'War on Terror' is one enormous lie.
....that the people we elect and call our 'government' are nothing of the sort......but that they are agents (if sometimes unwitting ones) of another hidden unelected superior power.

The original post on this thread was powerful and important and its train of thought has been hijacked.
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Keith Mothersson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Yes, but Reply with quote

It was a powerful piece of writing, but
a) some of us have been using 9/11 as a pretty good litmus test for years, and saying much the same for four years - yet a breakthrough eludes us;

b) it is only divisive to be abusive of each other's perspectives and sincerity - not to say: wait a minute, before we go such a bundle on getting everyone to agree on '911' being an 'inside job', is it possible that we haven't seen 9/11 accurately enough in the first place, so that we don't quite know who the Insiders are who did this inside job - mil-industrial complex, black budget fraternities, media-intel complex must also be fully in the frame along with Neocons and Mossad;

c) also is it possible that the Thermate hypothesis is being quietly prepared for mainstreaming so that those other frats I mentioned in b) can by and large escape the full enquiry/wrath of the people, but all the blame could be put on a few rotten apple insiders who let in the really bad barbarians who remain Al Q (via this new and dangerous tale of 66 tons of thermite precursors from Saddam's rocket programme)?

So we could merely appear to win but our opponent could then twist our victory against us?

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Andrew Johnson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:

No. My aim is not an investigation - it is to wake people up. .


I see a flaw in your logic Stefan - without an investigation, you won't find the truth. So, what will you be waking people up to? Another false story?

You haven't reviewed the evidence, by the way. In the witness study I did (scanning 500 accounts) people mostly thought the sound of the towers coming down was like a plane approach - a "rushing thrushing sound". Very few reported explosives sounds as the towers came down. these were people who were right on the scene - rescuing others.

We found some VERY interesting accounts to tie up with the photographic record. It's taught us a lot. Witness accounts and detailed photo evidence - 500 of the former and 1000's of the latter - quite a lot of info to digest an investigate. But sorry to bore you with all that stuff - I know you said you weren't interested.

So, you seem to agree, from your statement above we need to stand around and ask other people to do the job?

Thanks for making this clearer. No wonder I post here so infrequently.

Take care

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marky 54
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I suppose that if these issues are going to be discussed anywhere then this is the site for it but can we keep this stuff to the 'controversies' section.

I'm not interested in any of this material. The details of the how are just not important.


i totally agree with your postion. yes discuss the 'how', but it is'nt important, it is'nt needed to understand a new investigastion is needed.

the best thing and the only chance for a new investigastion is to get behind the unanswered questions that are still unanswered which were put across by family members in the first place. and who may support and welcome the extra voices.

you could prove the 'how' beyond doubt, it aint going to make a difference, nobodys listening. also everyone has got different theorys they all think is correct, obviously somebodys wrong but nobody wants to admit it or wants to see it, even when its been proven, they still use the material and ignore the errors.

while ever errors are being produced as evidence people only see reasons not to listen.

there are a lot of self proclaimed scientists out there who cannot see the situation but rather get lost in their fantasy of being the one to solve the 9/11 mysteries.

Quote:
but all the blame could be put on a few rotten apple insiders who let in the really bad barbarians who remain Al Q (via this new and dangerous tale of 66 tons of thermite precursors from Saddam's rocket programme)?


that is always a possibility with any investigastion and its a problem that cannot be escaped.
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rodin
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all this DEW v Thermite argument whatever happened to the micronukes hypothesis? Much more likely than DEW and can also account for certain unconventional happenings like the cars, the people being vapourised etc.

Micronukes would probably point directly @ Dimona, if what Joe Vialls posted about Bali was well informed

That would not fit the blame the US and cause a revolution agenda that would be so very Rothschild

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