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Another Celeb Truther Loses the Plot

 
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A Sharp Major
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Another Celeb Truther Loses the Plot Reply with quote

Scroll down to 10 June 2008 and David Ray Griffin (sorry, I can't link directly)

http://www.screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

In the first minute; Griffin claims the original Pearl Harbour was an inside job but not a bad thing? Rrrrrrright. There are gasps from his small (?) audience, I like to think that it is the sound of pennies dropping, Griffin is la la, truthiness is for losers. (Debating/arguing with them just a little less so Wink ).


Any truthers agree with truth guru Griffin and think that the US played Japan, attacked their own naval base as an excuse to declare war on Japan, which was a good thing? Or is Griffin an idiot who cannot be trusted on anything?

How the 'mighty' are falling. :

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chek
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to check out Stinnett's FOIA informed tome Day of Deceit - if your cosy preconceptions can take it - before commenting further.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Another Celeb Truther Loses the Plot Reply with quote

If any truther thinks their case is strengthened by reference to other contentious conspiracy theories, they really are in serious denial. Chek's answer here seems to be "Obviously you haven't read the book that proves that Pearl Harbour was an inside job!". As if the existence of a book justifies all! It is FOIA informed apparently, in Alex Jones style. Of course there are many more books on Holocaust denial - are we to assume that their claims to authenticity are also genuine?
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A Sharp Major
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes yes chek. Failing to correctly interpret or act on intelligence is one thing (if so), a self inflicted wound is another. Preventing/mitigating Pearl Harbour would have meant an attack on the Japanese fleet, result; war. The US already had an excuse to go to war against the Axis as a German submarine had sunk a US warship a full month previous. No further outrage needed.

Griffin is as nutty and as dishonest as Jimmy Walters, Judy Wood, Jim Fetzer, Steven Jones, Alex Jones, David Shayler, David Icke, those 'Architects' and 'Engineers' for truthiness exposed thus far and any number of head bobbing loons at Ground Zero bellowing, 'nine eleven was an inside job.' However this is not news.

You seem to be one of the last 'fort holders' chek. Contrary to some of the more excitable truthers' claims, truthiness is collapsing. Hurry, take your research and evidence to the press. Do it in person. Impress them with your intellect, education, application, research, evidence. If you can't leave the house, get them to come to you. Remember, contrary to some of the more excitable truthers' claims, journalists are a pretty fearless bunch and newpaper owners love to stick it to governments. Go chek...................any time now......... what are you waiting for?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that was either a record breaking bit of speed reading by you two, or a classic bit of popular myth hugging at all costs (backed as usual with the by now expected evidence-free arguments).

I know which one my money's on.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is saying Pearl Harbour was LIHOP right?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes chek, whatever. Maybe another FOI release will incriminate the US Government in 9-11. Governments up to no good cover up, then pass laws allowing the public to get the info. What are you and the remaining active (sic) truthers waiting for?

Now, on the subject of evidence (R)

Quote:
Hurry, take your research and evidence to the press. Do it in person. Impress them with your intellect, education, application, research, evidence. If you can't leave the house, get them to come to you. Remember, contrary to some of the more excitable truthers' claims, journalists are a pretty fearless bunch and newpaper owners love to stick it to governments. Go chek...................any time now......... what are you waiting for?


You'll be famous, not just an anonymous internet warrior who never leaves the house.

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A Sharp Major
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He is saying Pearl Harbour was LIHOP right?


He does call it an 'inside job' which suggests he thinks US Forces disguised as Japanese Forces attacked US Forces. You can just see the volunteers rolling up for that one.

Fore knowledge and letting it happen is unlikely but not impossible but as preventing the attack would have meant war, what's the difference? As I wrote above. The Germans had already sunk a US warship five weeks previous. War on the Axis was legitimate without a pending attack by Nippon. The US was already annoyed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Sharp Major wrote:
Yes chek, whatever. Maybe another FOI release will incriminate the US Government in 9-11. Governments up to no good cover up, then pass laws allowing the public to get the info. What are you and the remaining active (sic) truthers waiting for?

Now, on the subject of evidence (R)

Quote:
Hurry, take your research and evidence to the press. Do it in person. Impress them with your intellect, education, application, research, evidence. If you can't leave the house, get them to come to you. Remember, contrary to some of the more excitable truthers' claims, journalists are a pretty fearless bunch and newpaper owners love to stick it to governments. Go chek...................any time now......... what are you waiting for?


You'll be famous, not just an anonymous internet warrior who never leaves the house.


Ah, the usual tired old stereotypes from you eh A#M? maybe you're getting too tired and old yourself, hmmm?

Anyhow, as previously explained (as is the case with nearly everything)

"What none of the doubters seem to comprehend is that this is no longer about just finding incriminating information and making a legal case.
The Supreme Court is already up to its neck as the principle enabler of the Bush coup of 2000, and any legal remedies would invariably and uselessly end up being decided by them.

The campaign is now about building a political movement with enough popular support to override the wishes of the oligarchs and their place men.

That campaign, as anybody involved in it can tell you from direct experience with the general public, is building nicely and will reach critical mass".
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=119364&highlight=supr eme+court#119364

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Sharp Major wrote:
He does call it an 'inside job' which suggests he thinks US Forces disguised as Japanese Forces attacked US Forces. You can just see the volunteers rolling up for that one.


Does it suggest that? That's a novel new twist. I bet Admiral Yamamoto wished he'd thought of that.

A Sharp Major wrote:
Fore knowledge and letting it happen is unlikely but not impossible but as preventing the attack would have meant war, what's the difference? As I wrote above. The Germans had already sunk a US warship five weeks previous. War on the Axis was legitimate without a pending attack by Nippon. The US was already annoyed.


Not annoyed enough to declare war though - comprendez?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they weren't annoyed enough and thought a good way to get annoyed enough would be to risk the destruction of the entire Pacific Fleet (even those ships, men and aircraft at sea), then declare war with precious little between the Japanese Fleet and hometown USA. Brilliant strategy. Is your first name Carl?

Quote:
"What none of the doubters seem to comprehend is that this is no longer about just finding incriminating information and making a legal case.
The Supreme Court is already up to its neck as the principle enabler of the Bush coup of 2000, and any legal remedies would invariably and uselessly end up being decided by them.

The campaign is now about building a political movement with enough popular support to override the wishes of the oligarchs and their place men



I'm not asking you to make a legal case. Get the press on to exposing the US Government and the supreme court will follow. Brave as the press are, it's easier and safer for them to stiff a western Government than a Columbian Drug Baron. Or are they not oligarch enough for you because they don't do oil?

Show the press what you've got, get published and get doubters on side. Your sad sorry corner of the internet and its kindred cyberdungeons will not cut it. Show us what a pro you are.

I'll be off again shortly in the service of the New World Order. I expect more extreme truthiness as truther numbers fall and key truthers are owned by antiidiotarians paradoxically idiot enough to 'debate' with truthers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Sharp Major wrote:
I'm not asking you to make a legal case. Get the press on to exposing the US Government and the supreme court will follow.


Erm we have been trying to do just that asm.

Could you suggest a strategy to achieve that aim?

A Sharp Major wrote:
Brave as the press are, it's easier and safer for them to stiff a western Government than a Columbian Drug Baron.


So, why don't they do just that then, in your opinion?

A Sharp Major wrote:
Or are they not oligarch enough for you because they don't do oil?


Help !

A Sharp Major wrote:
Show the press what you've got, get published and get doubters on side. Your sad sorry corner of the internet and its kindred cyberdungeons will not cut it. Show us what a pro you are.


Erm, the "press" as you put it, know what we have, yet refuse to engage with it seriously. They just seem to avoid certain stuff and promote certain stuff if my impression is correct.

What do you suggest we do?

A Sharp Major wrote:
I'll be off again shortly in the service of the New World Order. I expect more extreme truthiness as truther numbers fall


Good point.

A Sharp Major wrote:
and key truthers are owned by antiidiotarians paradoxically idiot enough to 'debate' with truthers.


Excellent point. Care to name and shame?

Cutely put, but, paradoxically?

Are you sure it's just a paradox?

Hypocritically, compulsively, maybe, but hey . . why do you do it then ?

anti idiotarians?

I had to google that . . .

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Sharp Major wrote:
So they weren't annoyed enough and thought a good way to get annoyed enough would be to risk the destruction of the entire Pacific Fleet (even those ships, men and aircraft at sea), then declare war with precious little between the Japanese Fleet and hometown USA. Brilliant strategy. Is your first name Carl?


The entire fleet, eh? My how marvellously ill informed you are.
Quite apart from that, the battleship - and more modern examples than those lost on Battleship Row - was already known to be an obsolete liability, with the loss of the Hood, the Bismarck the Repulse and the Prince of Wales earlier in 1941. Every subsequent capital ship has been an aircraft carrier.

I suppose you put it down to 'coincidence' that no carriers were lost. Guess what type of ship won every major naval engagement of WWII? Hint: it wasn't the battleship.

A Sharp Major wrote:
I'm not asking you to make a legal case. Get the press on to exposing the US Government and the supreme court will follow. Brave as the press are, it's easier and safer for them to stiff a western Government than a Columbian Drug Baron. Or are they not oligarch enough for you because they don't do oil?

Show the press what you've got, get published and get doubters on side. Your sad sorry corner of the internet and its kindred cyberdungeons will not cut it. Show us what a pro you are.

I'll be off again shortly in the service of the New World Order. I expect more extreme truthiness as truther numbers fall and key truthers are owned by antiidiotarians paradoxically idiot enough to 'debate' with truthers.


Well, the campaign will certainly continue and grow with or without your approval or direction. Have a nice year now y'hear y'all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I scrolled down to this:

http://www.screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ writing about the "book", "Firefight" allegedly about the alleged event at the Pentagon wrote:
the firefighters standing on the lawn who nearly got hit by the plane as it was coming in . . .


Preventatively and pre-emptively, hanging about then were they?

Just in case a Boeing 757 were to atomise and become liquid ?

77 of them per chance?

Bush doctrinaire firefighters were they?

Bless em.

Nearly got hit? But not quite then?

Was it altitude related?

Blimey !

[You have to scroll down to A Few Thoughts on Firefight.]

Go on, be brave !

I for one, would also screw loose change, if I could prove that, some firefighters at the Pentagon had pre-knowledge and were standing on the lawn and narrowly averted a Boeing 757 hitting them on the head.

Maybe you should enlist the, highly plausible, chrisc to your cause, if you haven't already.

Just a thought.

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A Sharp Major
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek said
Quote:
I suppose you put it down to 'coincidence' that no carriers were lost. Guess what type of ship won every major naval engagement of WWII? Hint: it wasn't the battleship.


Several carriers lost in the Second World War and at least one to a submarine or did you mean only at Pearl Harbour? No carrier losses at Pearl Harbour was fortunate. By not promulgating intelligence of hostile Japanese forces, the entire Pacific Fleet was at risk whether at sea or in harbour. So it seems unlikely intelligence was sat upon.

Mark Gobell, the press don't entertain the truth movement because they (the press) have yet to be approached and impressed by an intelligent, informed and eloquent truther bearing evidence. Same thing with the engineering profession. Let's not flatter Gage and his free lunchers who just rehash truther standards. Show engineers (not architects) what you have.

The engineering profession in the UK is self regulating, unlike in the US so they need not fear the big bad Brown. Show them what you have. Something more than a Larry Silverstein interview and an Alex Jones rant.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're still waiting for the academics at Cambridge University to respond iirc.

Perhaps you would care to comment?

Is that the same press, you talk about that covered the error in the UK government's narrative about London 7/7 ?

You big bold truther you ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell was incredulous
Quote:
Preventatively and pre-emptively, hanging about then were they?


Stationed at the Pentagon 24/7 to provide cover for the regular helicopter traffic landing on the pad. Even truther sites have pictures of the helipad control tower. The firemen were probably allowed to walk around during quite periods. Rolling Eyes So, hanging about but not pre-emptively.

There isn't much chance that you'll be that intelligent, informed truther who convinces the press that the truth movement is on to something, is there Mark?

And you wonder why the press ignore you and others laugh at you? Ha ha.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell remains incredulous:

scrolled down to this:

http://www.screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ writing about the "book", "Firefight" allegedly about the alleged event at the Pentagon wrote:
the firefighters standing on the lawn who nearly got hit by the plane as it was coming in . . .



Perhaps you, you big bold truther would be happy to convince the press of this then ?

Did you get any names?

Go on. Knock yourself out. . .

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It took only eight-tenths of a second for American Airlines Flight 77 to strike the outer wall of the Pentagon, penetrate the concentric E, D and C Rings, collapse upon itself like an accordion and ignite chaos.


Sharp turning necks, those, pre-emptive, helipad firefighters eh?

Blink at me now !

Go on, be brave.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Mark Gobell is addressing me in this (one can never tell - poor show)

Quote:
We're still waiting for the academics at Cambridge University to respond iirc.

Perhaps you would care to comment?


I can't speak for Cambridge University. If the royal we have yet to hear from Cambridge University I wouldn't hold your collective breaths. If your presentation doesn't meet their criteria and from what I've seen of truther science and engineeering standards it won't, you'll be ignored.

Robby B (not BEng then?!) wrote

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=116759&highlight=#116 759

Quote:
The flame coming from the end of a blowtorch has a tip millimeters wide and melts the steel because that tip is over the 1500 degrees c needed to melt steel.


That stood out in 'pages' of technical stuff that I wasn't going to give any time to. If you talk nonsense about how a cutting torch works, don't talk to me, truthers, engineers, scientists and the lay public about Fourier.

The truth movement has yet to realise that although it does have a few degreed/licenced/registered engineers and scientists in its ranks, most seem to have had a bump on the head at some point and have trouble with the application. The rest of those truthers spouting physics are graduates of the Universities of Google and Wikipedia.

Quote:
Is that the same press, you talk about that covered the error in the UK government's narrative about London 7/7 ?


Covered as in 'reported' or covered as in 'covered up'? Was there an error, is it significant, is it just that truthers who have never been within 100 miles of London think that they know best? (The question is rhetorical.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as a Cambridge graduate in theoretical physics (B.A. (Cantab), 1st class honours), with a Master of Science degree in high-energy physics, a Ph.D in theoretical physics, 20 years of research collaboration with several Nobel Prize winners, forty-five publications in peer-reviewed physics journals, three books published on particle physics and now a 9/11 truther, I must somehow have bumped my head at some stage. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little late in replying but there is life outside 9/11 Truth (Critics' Corner).

Quote:
Well, as a Cambridge graduate in theoretical physics (B.A. (Cantab), 1st class honours), with a Master of Science degree in high-energy physics, a Ph.D in theoretical physics, 20 years of research collaboration with several Nobel Prize winners, forty-five publications in peer-reviewed physics journals, three books published on particle physics and now a 9/11 truther, I must somehow have bumped my head at some stage.



With a CV like that you'll be on nodding terms with Professor JB˛.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Sharp Major wrote:
I'm a little late in replying but there is life outside 9/11 Truth (Critics' Corner).

Quote:
Well, as a Cambridge graduate in theoretical physics (B.A. (Cantab), 1st class honours), with a Master of Science degree in high-energy physics, a Ph.D in theoretical physics, 20 years of research collaboration with several Nobel Prize winners, forty-five publications in peer-reviewed physics journals, three books published on particle physics and now a 9/11 truther, I must somehow have bumped my head at some stage.



With a CV like that you'll be on nodding terms with Professor JB˛.


Yes. I have had dinner with him. He invited me in 1984 to lead a seminar attended by postdocs on certain topics in theoretical physics at the new Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge, where his office is.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micpsi wrote:
A Sharp Major wrote:
I'm a little late in replying but there is life outside 9/11 Truth (Critics' Corner).

Quote:
Well, as a Cambridge graduate in theoretical physics (B.A. (Cantab), 1st class honours), with a Master of Science degree in high-energy physics, a Ph.D in theoretical physics, 20 years of research collaboration with several Nobel Prize winners, forty-five publications in peer-reviewed physics journals, three books published on particle physics and now a 9/11 truther, I must somehow have bumped my head at some stage.



With a CV like that you'll be on nodding terms with Professor JB˛.


Yes. I have had dinner with him. He invited me in 1984 to lead a seminar attended by postdocs on certain topics in theoretical physics at the new Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge, where his office is.


Never mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asked if micpsi 'knew' Prof. JB˛ micpsi replied
Quote:


Yes. I have had dinner with him. He invited me in 1984 to lead a seminar attended by postdocs on certain topics in theoretical physics at the new Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge, where his office is.


In 1984? One, five, eight, ten, 15, 20, twenty four years ago! So not that close then? Anyway, I have a different JB˛ in mind, one who is high profile in physics......... in 2008. Not your one-off dining partner from the Jurassic age at all.

Yes, yes, I know it's not really the Jurassic age.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micpsi said
Quote:
Well, as a Cambridge graduate in theoretical physics (B.A. (Cantab), 1st class honours), with a Master of Science degree in high-energy physics, a Ph.D in theoretical physics, 20 years of research collaboration with several Nobel Prize winners, forty-five publications in peer-reviewed physics journals, three books published on particle physics and now a 9/11 truther, I must somehow have bumped my head at some stage.


Quite an impressive list of acheivements. The author's name and the books' titles would be helpful if I am to read them. Likewise the journals and the issues in which your papers appear. I'd like to read them. Perhaps others would to.

Professor JB˛ ringing any contemporary bells yet?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No deal then? Does that mean Miscpsi is not a PhD physicist and not published or just not seen the request for access to his or her published work above?

JB˛?

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