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AntonH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the website is nonsense (and I agree it could be a lot better) this is merely proving what I say, the campaign lacks communications capacity (i.e. people with the time, skills and ability)

Promoting a holocaust denier? Not knowingly, where?

What secrecy? There are regular London meetings for those inclined and an open email list to publicise them. There is an open call made at the last 2 London meetings for a new London co-ordinator. Are you volunteering? Last year the London group put on loads of public events that were advertised here.

Indeed the opportunity is there for you or anyone else who is so inclined to step up and take the London group forward in a new direction. All you have to do is volunteer.

Anyway enough. I know who I wish to work with and who I don't, on the basis of what messages and strategy. I may remain involved in 'the campaign' depending on the outcome at the weekend or I may just choose to do as you do and campaign independently associating with those I want associate with and ignoring those I don't. If you want to reinvigorate London 9/11 street activism, I will gladly give access to the London email list so you can contact people directly


I will unfortunately leave London rather soon, but I wouldn't mind to call for some street action in the meanwhile..

So far my communication with the London group has been a one-to-one conversation (and attending one meeting), I was vaguely aware of an email list because of postings on here, but have had no answer about my proposal to join it. Also, someone on here complained about not getting any information about meetings anymore, which is perhaps another case but shows somewhat that the communication has fallen apart for some reason..

With holocaust revisionist I mean Nick Koellerstrom, and I base that harsh judgement solely by following the discussion about him that has been held on this forum. (To be honest, hes promoted on 911action.org, which is linked from the 911truthcampaing-site).

Thanks for your answer, and I cant wait another second to join that list..
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AntonH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We Are Change UK are doing 9/11 leafletting this saturday so if you want to come along feel free to PM me.


Great, so thats progress from when you left me and others on this list waiting for a reply about where to meet up for the 11:th-of-every-month action, and the day before decided to not bother in favor of organizing an impotent peace demonstration outside an army recruitment office. Sorry, but I'm still not interested in joining We Are Change.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello AntonH

You state:

"With holocaust revisionist I mean Nick Koellerstrom, and I base that harsh judgement solely by following the discussion about him that has been held on this forum. (To be honest, hes promoted on 911action.org, which is linked from the 911truthcampaing-site)."

Is he.?....The following posted ..June 5....2007

ETERNAL WAR AND FALSE FLAG TERROR..by Nicholas Kollerstrom, PhD

We must stress the idea, unfamiliar and suppressed as it is, that the vast majority of international terrorism conducted on a spectacular scale is indeed state-sponsored terrorism.’ Webster Tarpley[1]

There now exists a main sequence of New - Millenium False-flag terror events, as follows:

Table 1: False Flag Terror
11/ 9/2001 New york
12/10/2002 Bali
20/11/2003 Istanbul
11/ 3/2004 Madrid
7/ 7/2005 London[2]
11/ 7/2006 Mumbai

- all having alleged Muslim perpetrators..........

It looks like a worthwhile read.

How come the dancers knew the time of the show............
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gareth
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonH wrote:
Quote:
We Are Change UK are doing 9/11 leafletting this saturday so if you want to come along feel free to PM me.


Great, so thats progress from when you left me and others on this list waiting for a reply about where to meet up for the 11:th-of-every-month action, and the day before decided to not bother in favor of organizing an impotent peace demonstration outside an army recruitment office. Sorry, but I'm still not interested in joining We Are Change.


The thread you're referring to was actually from the March 11th action.

'Impotent'? Hardly

Look Anton keep in touch and we'll make sure the next 11th is HUGE

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paul wright
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This infighting is plain ridiculous
Stefan felt the need to withdraw himself from the "sister site" to this due to peer pressure and ridicule from WAC comrades. Yet the predecessor to the sister, the WY forum, had consistently promoted and praised WAC activities. And the sister shows no signs of controversy on this topic
The rigorous and antagonistic 9/11 mo theory debate is completely ridiculous, other than examination of the motivation of either "side", and continually wearying
Give them equal footing and see what motivation might underly either perception and then move on

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Last edited by paul wright on Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AntonH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gareth:

Yes, on that thread you can read clearly the comments from last month. In the same time, you're also sending me a pm telling me that you're hoping to get leaflets done and will let me know, then pulls it off. Even with a video of your demonstration, I call it rather impotent. Don't worry, you're free to do what you want, BUT it's a pity the way you have successfully weakened the 911 truth movement in order to do it...

blackbear:

As stated, I've only made my opinion from what I've read on this forum, and don't want to stress it any further. From what you're quoting, I'd rather read Synthetic Terror instead. And I know that I would not like to be in the same room as NK, that is my personal opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonH wrote:
And I know that I would not like to be in the same room as NK, that is my personal opinion.

I'd agree from personal encounter

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xmasdale
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snowygrouch wrote:
All,
I think that Ian`s point about the formation of a "political lobby group" and a "larger campaign" operating as separate entities is the most sensible way forward in all respects.

Since those at the top of the "larger campaign" are insistent on a "total coverage" methodology in terms of points of view its the only real option.

C.


Excellent, Calum. You've now got the point that Ian N and I have been trying to communicate. Very Happy Very Happy

There indeed needs to be a "political lobby group" who will market the most digestible aspects of 9/11 scepticism to politicians, media, peace campaigners, civil libertarians, leftists, greens, tories etc. Individuals joining that group should from the outset agree to accept the self-discipline of not promoting theories which are controversial among 9/11 truth campaigners.

Those who hold controversial theories, such as Andrew Johnson, David Icke and his supporters, NPTers, videofakery theorists, Jews-dunnit theorists etc should not expect their theories to be promoted by this group. In such a group where the members have agreed to this self-discipline, censorship of alternative theories would be entirely in order.

What I have objected to is being expected to censor the views of those in the British 9/11 Truth Campaign which certain scientifically trained individuals disagree with. Historically the whole spirit of scientific enquiry has depended on there being freedom of expression - free from censorship by those who believe their superior knowledge has given them understanding of immutable truths which entitles them to suppress conflicting theories.

Censorship by such a class killed off free scientific inquiry in Catholic parts of Europe from the time of the persecuted Galileo (15 February 1564 – 8 January 1642) until the ideas of the Enlightenment flourished at the time of the French Revolution (1789). But, fortunately for science, the atmosphere in northern Protestant Europe was more liberal and allowed Newton and other pioneers to flourish.

So far as my limited understanding stretches, I am now being asked by people who have decided that a Newtonian explanation of the destruction of the WTC is correct, to censor all other theories. Given that the new world of quantum physics exists, with mind boggling discoveries which I don't begin to understand, I am not prepared to be enrolled as chief censorship officer for those who insist that quantum physics is irrelevant to this case.

Scientists would do well to consider where censorship has got them in the past.
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonH wrote:
And I know that I would not like to be in the same room as NK, that is my personal opinion.


Actually NK is an absolute gent.
He is also IMO an individual whose sole interest is in the truth of things.

It was NK who uncovered the 7/7 train timetable anolalies that caused John Reid to alter the official narrative of that day.

Unfortunately for NK, like many academics, he is somewhat naive and tends to imagine that everyone else operates according to the same parameters of integrity as himself.

It was unwise of him to mention the existence of a swimming pool, theatre at Auschwitz but they were there....indicating (along with the delousing gas chamber for disinfecting the inmates clothes, the walls of which were stained dark blue) that Auschwitz was, initially at least, a workcamp. The fact that no similar staining existed on the human extermination gas chamber undermines the official story for many people. The fact that the Auschwitz curator, a Dr. Piper, when confronted by this fact in 1992 said that the reason was that this gas chamber was only used for about 20 minutes per day boggles the normal mind. I am still waiting for a good explanation that can explain the David Cole evidence myself.

I would not blurt out these things in public though. That would be, and for NK obviously was, a mistake.
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xmasdale
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:

I was possibly over stating the case when I said it has always been abundently clear. Obviously not that clear or we wouldn't be where we are today and I dare say I should have been clearer in the early days in making this separation abundently clear.



Ian, don't beat yourself up over this. We have all made mistakes. I too was slow to realise that this was not abundantly clear to many supporters. I also think it was our mistake to try to impose on people who were already effectively part of the campaign, the discipline of not speculating on what really happened on 9/11. For many of our supporters this was what the campaign was all about - reference my bus metaphor:

"This has been like a bus going to an unspecified destination and picking up passengers en route who hope it is taking them where they want to go, then later the bus crew deciding where it is going and admittedly announcing that, but not many passengers were actually listening at the time. Then the passengers all started quarrelling with each other both about what the final destination of the bus should be and about which route the driver should take to get them there. "

ian neal wrote:

So when C says

Quote:
I think that Ian`s point about the formation of a "political lobby group" and a "larger campaign" operating as separate entities is the most sensible way forward in all respects.


Let's just stop and agree there.


Agreed! I think that through this discussion the way forward is becoming clearer.

C U in Bristol

Noel
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xmasdale
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wright wrote:
This infighting is plain ridiculous
Stefan felt the need to withdraw himself from the "sister site" to this due to peer pressure and ridicule from WAC comrades. Yet the predecessor to the sister, the WY forum, had consistently promoted and praised WAC activities. And the sister shows no signs of controversy on this topic
The rigorous and antagonistic 9/11 mo theory debate is completely ridiculous, other than examination of the motivation of either "side", and continually wearying
Give them equal footing and see what motivation might underly either perception and then move on


Infighting results from arrogant atttitudes. Those who take an attitude akin to:

"Either you agree with me 100% or you're a complete idiot and I want nothing whatever to do with you,"

are a menace to the movement whether they realise it or not. Some of them of course may be security service agents placed among us to cause dissention and chaos, though it is almost impossible to be certain who is one. I strongly advise against publicly accusing anyone.

We all have different opinions but need to develop a certain humility about them. I have also found in this movement that some of my best friends are people whose political opinions are far removed from mine. That does not prevent us from co-operating over what we have in common.

We all need to consider whether our personal attitudes and behaviour are beneficial to the movement or detrimental.

Of course I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

Noel

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ian neal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmasdale wrote:
We all have different opinions but need to develop a certain humility about them. I have also found in this movement that some of my best friends are people whose political opinions are far removed from mine. That does not prevent us from co-operating over what we have in common.

We all need to consider whether our personal attitudes and behaviour are beneficial to the movement or detrimental.



True. We also need to be aware that public forums are especially prone to this kind of behaviour and amplify the differences of opinion and approach amongst us. My experience of meeting fellow campaigners face to face is far less acrimonious than can sometimes occur online

I particularly like the Thomas Merton quote on this site. Wise words indeed

http://www.osdemethodology.org.uk/
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xmasdale
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Ian!

It's a good quote. I find it a little difficult to read on that site so I reproduce it here:

Those of us who act and who attempt to do things for others or for the world without deepening our own self-understanding, freedom, integrity and capacity to love, will not have anything to give to others. We will communicate to them nothing but the contagion of our obsessions, our agressivity, our ego-centred ambitions and our delusions about ends and means.

I see Merton's mother was a Quaker. Here's a Quaker quotation which I think is also relevant. It may be a bit godly for some of our supporters, but I think many will find sound advice within it, even if they can't stomach the godly bits.

Do you respect that of God in everyone though it may be expressed in unfamiliar ways or be difficult to discern? Each of us has a particular experience of God and each must find the way to be true to it. When words are strange or disturbing to you, try to sense where they come from and what has nourished the lives of others. Listen patiently and seek the truth which other people's opinions may contain for you. Avoid hurtful criticism and provocative language. Do not allow the strength of your convictions to betray you into making statements or allegations that are unfair or untrue. Think it possible that you may be mistaken. - Quaker Advices and Queries Number 17

Some people may find it helpful to think of "that of God in everyone" as the equivalent of "each person's highest ideals". We all have them.

Noel
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paul wright
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Actually NK is an absolute gent.

Superficially....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wright wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Actually NK is an absolute gent.

Superficially....


You are implying that this man's actions and motives are more than suspect.

How well do you know NK?

Is he seething with anti-semitism and other dark hatreds?

Please give us your inside gen. If NK trying to use lies in order to viciously and unfairly advance a lothsome personal agenda we should all be told.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: My experience of NK Reply with quote

I don't mean to hijack this thread onto one aspect, but I have known Nick for many years through campaigning against the illegality of nuclear weapons, in the precursor network to the Institute for Law and Peace, (now Institute for Law Accountability and Peace), which affirms the central value of civilian and non-combatant immnity from attack - which is what concerns us also if 2,700 plus folk get wasted in the Manhattan Murders.

He has had a fine record of combining research and activism, e.g. helped in the Nuclear Weapons Tribunal and central to the Belgrano Inquiry in the eighties, has edited a Russell Press book editing the legal advice concedrning the Illegality of the Iraq invasion.

Like me, like us all of us , he may occasionally reach conclusions which are coloured by personal agendas, but in general he has been a good friend to me and I have never felt that he was a hater, least of all an obsessive anti-semite.

He has acknowleged that the Jewish people(s) suffered huge blows before and during WW2, mainly at the hands of the Nazis or their accomplices, which you could call a Holocaust.

In my own work on non-combatant immunity I came across David Irving's book on Dresden which gave a figure of 135,000 dead - which I believed for some time until I read Goetz Bergander's Dresden Im Luftkrieg, which made me realise that I had probably bought a figure inflated by Nazi/German nationalist concerns to have something to put into the balance against the warcrimes Germany stood accused of by the West (and Russia). Until I went deeper into the scholarly material, I too could have been accused of naively buying a neonazi myth, including some associated tropes such as painting slightly too rosy a picture of Hitler's position in the airwar with Churchill. (Just because Churchill was all out for Night-time Area/City Bombing and Hitler offered a night-bombing pact, doesn't mean that the Nazis didn't use terror-bombing when they had the opportunity, e.g. Guernika.)

It was my acute awareness of the war crimes of the British State, which predisposed me to this mistake. The same thing happened - though I got through it faster - when I read Other Losses by James Bacque, which alleged a million German POWs died in the postwar months in the POW camps of the Western Allies. Luckily a historian friend was able to point me to a good critique.

I see Bacgue is still going strong, and I haven't read his counter-refutations (debunking the debunkers?) but I think his figure is much exaggerated.

In the last couple of years, I have become aware of just how many lines of critique exist of the Holocaust Myth - which was also an exterminist reality for so many Jews, of course. Although I do not think that Jewish writers like Primo Levy - whose work I hugely admire - are dupes and liars, I do think that there are many strange anomalies in accounts, exaggerations have flourished in some quarters, and of course we would all agree that the truth of Nazi work-em-to-death/extermination camps has been pressed into service to give Zionists a free hand to build a racist State and conduct ethnic cleansing in Palestine.

Many of these anomalies have doubtless been cleared up somewhere - but sometimes the clearer-uppers have their own agenda (viz Conspiracy Files!) so this is very contested territory and we should all be careful to check out possible refutations and rival websites and scholarly papers, etc before rushing in, otherwise we could find ourselves out of our depths.

Of course in the normal scheme of things it is fair enough to present one's current undrstanding in the confidence that others who know that we have gotten some bits wrong will be able to come forward and correct us - then we change our view and move on.

But because of the pain/trauma suffered by the victims of anti-semitism, and the danger (such as it is) of neo-nazis trying to get their show back on the road by reviving anti-semitism as a political force, coupled with the way Zionists have used that pain/exaggerated that danger to help ensure a free pass for Israel and a taboo on questioning any bit of what they and their Christian Zionist/US Imperialist allies have elevated into a strategic World Myth, then questioning important aspects of the Holocaust is not the same as scholarly discussion about other matters - one is bound to get jumped on as a heretic, treated as a social leper.

I would be prepared to suffer that contumely along with Nick if i was sure he is right about the Auschwitz gas chambers issue. But I don't know enough chemistry to judge his papers. From two other Chemistry studies which I have read - or skimmed, not really understanding them - [one supplied by the good dogsmilk, thanks!] , my sense is that Nick may have gotten out of his depths. I think he was impressed by the logic of two particular revisionist studies (Leuchter and Rudolf] focussed on the very complex Chemistry of the Auschwitz 'gas chambers' [delousing chambers versus human extermination] , but stuck his neck out behind them when he hadn't really checked out what mainstream refutations/replies existed.

Ideally he shouldn't be persecuted for his mistakes, rather he should have his mistakes - or possible/probable mistakes - drawn to his attention with the same care that we would all like to be corrected when we have made a mistake or sequence of mistakes. And if he agrees that he may have been mistaken, then he can let us know when he is ready along with any reflections on the ordinary human vulnerabilites [which we all share and at times act on and act out] which may have coloured his judgments (e.g. once a tabu is instituted socially, it can lead us sceptics to an 'amplification of deviance' phenomenon, where we forget to be sceptical about the so-called sceptics because we are getting high on the transgressive?).

These vulnerabilities, together with a couple of misjudgments about contacting people in connection with 7-7, led him to ignore certain political dangers, dangers which have impacted heavily on him now, and will also impact on the 7-7 movement to the extent that the BBC Conspiracy Files programme will seek to highlight his work and then link him to holocaust denial - and by association the wider truth movement(s).

I think we can cope with that and come out of it stronger. He remains my friend and I have trust that he will also come out this stronger and wiser. If Paul has had difficult experiences with Nick, I am sorry to hear that, but I shouldn't imagine that this forum is the best place to air them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul wright wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Actually NK is an absolute gent.

Superficially....


I get the feeling some people are using this movement to peddle abhorrent Theosophical/Thule/Nazi sympathetic views.

I told Nick what I think of his Holocaust views (nobody was gassed by the Nazis and internees died of 'famine') in no uncertain terms this past weekend.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
paul wright wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Actually NK is an absolute gent.

Superficially....


I get the feeling some people are using this movement to peddle abhorrent Theosophical/Thule/Nazi sympathetic views.

I told Nick what I think of his Holocaust views (nobody was gassed by the Nazis and internees died of 'famine') in no uncertain terms this past weekend.


I don't have the slightest sympathy with Nazis, Theosophists or Thules (whatever they are). I see myself as a Christian pacifist who just wants to know the truth of all things.

I don't want to debate this issue (yet again) but do see NK as a person simply stating what he believes to be true. I don't know what's true in the big picture but, like the 19 hijackers, I have yet to see evidence proving the existence of chambers at Auschwitz, nor seen credible contradictions of the evidential materials presented on this forum that questions the official reality. I only make this case re Auschwitz, nowhere else.

Maybe you are a secret Nazi protagonist because you keep giving people reason to rehash the same old stuff by being personally offensive towards them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
paul wright wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Actually NK is an absolute gent.

Superficially....


You are implying that this man's actions and motives are more than suspect.

How well do you know NK?

Is he seething with anti-semitism and other dark hatreds?

Please give us your inside gen. If NK trying to use lies in order to viciously and unfairly advance a lothsome personal agenda we should all be told.

I'm just going off the timeline of incidents with my encounter with Nick, and how things make out in retrospect, rather than my impression of him personally. I don't know if he's seething with anything, but I am rather angry that he drew me into a situation that I'd rather not have been involved with. A classic ploy.
I'm not really open to discuss this much further in the open, though continue to harbour deep doubts about what Nick is really about.
I've put these accusations several times in this forum, yet never hear any rebuttal or reaction from said person
Which in the interim tells me he has some idea of what I'm talking about

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am shocked by Tony Gosling's rather wierd and poisonous comment:
Quote:
....abhorrent Theosophical/Thule/Nazi sympathetic views.... I told Nick what I think of his Holocaust views (nobody was gassed by the Nazis and internees died of 'famine')

Is this supposed to be me? Tony did make a strange comment to me last weekend about Theosophists and I didn't know what he was on about but I guess this is it. First let's be clear that no-one in the 9/11 movement is 'promoting' my (alleged Holo-Denial) views and I have never sought to air them on any 9/11 site. I get bashed around because of them however and occasionally like now I reply. Here is a reply I made, in this week's Private Eye:
Quote:
Dear Editor,
I may be a fan of Wagner, but I’m no Neo-Nazi as claimed in your article (Media News 1213). My intention in publishing The Walls of Auschwitz, a Review of the Chemical Studies was to open an intelligent debate on a taboo subject. As a science historian, could I not be allowed a critique of evidence as regards where exactly the Zyklon-B (cyanide) had been used? People tell me I should have more considered the anguish such a debate would cause – and yet, we are able to debate the holocausts of other cultures, such as the Native Americans? So please don’t yell at me that I’m a ‘neo-Nazi’. I’ve never affiliated to any right-wing political group or movement. I managed the Green party for 12 years in Guildford and have always worked within peace and anti-war movements.
Yours truly,

and here is a letter which the Jewish Chronicle published (6 June):
Quote:
Dear Sir,
This is the fourth week running that you have alluded to my work, and you ought to allow me some right of reply. You report that I’m deemed to be ‘anti-semitic’ on account of comments I’ve made about the operation of certain WW2 gas chambers. Your correspondent Mr Aronowitz also averred that I was advocating ‘extreme holocaust denial.’
I’m drawing a conclusion from the two chemical studies by Fred Leuchter and Germar Rudolf (1988 and 1991) which suggest that no mass cyanide gassing could have taken place in the Auschwitz chambers because the residual cyanide just isn’t there. Whereas, it is present at high levels in the delousing chamber walls. I hope and believe that I’m not in any way anti-semitic or neo-Nazi, as people are now telling me. I’m just looking critically, as a science historian, at the evidence for certain chambers having been used in conjunction with Zyklon-B insecticide in the war.
It is true that I had an opportunity to present this matter on Iranian TV, but I’d be happy to argue it anywhere else.
I wouldn’t mind having an apology for you calling me a racist. I’m not doubting that this period of history was the most terrible in the collective memory of the Jewish people in which vast numbers of them died and have no objection to this being called ‘the Holocaust.’


My opinion is, that this evidence cannot and should not be summed up as 'no Jews were gassed,' which T.G. endlessly reiterates claiming its my view. Firstly, we are only talking cyanide not carbon monoxide, second we are only talking Auschwitz not the other camps (because old walls don't remain in the other camps), and this conclusion pertains only to the traditionally-designated 'gas chambers'. As regards his constantly-repeated objection to my saying many deaths in the camps were due to famine/starvation, this is merely the published view of eminent US army pathologist Charles Larsen who was there, why does he know better?

I don't like being personal on these threads, but in view of the very unpleasant character-aspersion cast by Mr Gosling, please excuse me if I put the following re my published work which anyone can check:
Quote:
BRIEF BIO OF A PEACE ACTIVIST
I was the first Green/Ecology Party candidate in Guildford, and the green Party was run for about twelve years from my house. In the West Surrey Euro-election of 1989 Greens came second, securing 22% of the vote, beating Labour and the social Democrats. I was the Press Secretary.

I’ve been a founder-member of Inlap, the Institute for Law and Peace, and I started and have edited a few issues of its journal ‘Inlap Times’ www.inlap.freeuk.com/publications.htm. At my suggestion Inlap had all the legal proceedings published whereby CND had attempted to challenge the legality of going to war with Iraq. CND spent 80k on this and it seemed worthwhile to remember the effort. So I’m co-editor of The Case Against War, The Essential Legal Inquiries, Opinions and Judgements concerning War in Iraq. www.spokesmanbooks.com/acatalog/Peace_and_Human_Rights.html

After the Falklands war, I and three others formed the ‘Belgrano Action Group’ and we held a public enquiry at Hampstead Town Hall, about what the war had been about. Top speakers like Tam Dalyell, Clive Ponting came and gave evidence. We then published the proceedings of this (again by Spokesman Press), as The Unnecessary War: Proceedings of the Belgrano Inquiry 1988.

In the 1980s I used to work in the office of END, European Nuclear disarmament, and it was from their literature that I began to understand how illusions were used by military intelligence to promote the nuclear arms race.

My web-essay ‘Nine keys to 9/11’ was praised by the prestigious Physics9/11 site, here is their review:
Nine Keys to 9-11
This website provides an excellent summary of the major problems that knowledgeable people have with the Bush interpretation of 9/11. In this case, the "knowledge" is embedded in nine major points that have no explanation within the Bush scenario: no hikacker names (or faked names) on the official airline passenger lists; hole in the Pentagon too small to have been made by a 757; complete failure of cellphones to operate at cruising altitude; etc. One of the best places for "students" to start.

I was a founder-member of the UK's ‘Truth’ or 9/11 movement. In 2007 that group invited Cynthia McKinney over to England, and she came - that was my initiative. She is now US Green Party presidential candidate.


PS - Paul, I had a nice time when I visited Leeds and you put me up for the night, only time I've ever met you, I really enjoyed meeting you. If there is some problem, can you please contact me and let's talk about it? Maybe you are uneasy about your decision to let the BBC film you - but is it fair to blame me for that? If so let's just contact them and ask them not to feature you, no problem.
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AntonH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.



"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."

-The National Socialist White People's Party

The Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/



.
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonH wrote:
.



"The real purpose of holocaust revisionism is to make
National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."

-The National Socialist White People's Party

The Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/.



Why do you believe what those cu-nts say?
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astro3 wrote:
I was a founder-member of the UK's ‘Truth’ or 9/11 movement.


It is not and never has been a membership organisation. It is a campaign to which people can choose to lend their support to. The reason for this should be clear.
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Keith Mothersson
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Location: Perth

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Please go easy on hate words Reply with quote

Dear Kevin,
I think someone else used the 'c***' word first, but whoever it was, I don't like it. I think it is seriously sexist.

C*** is where we all come from - as shown by our belly buttons and Shiela-na-gig images.
The word for c*** in french is con.
Ignorance = in-con-naissance = lost our filial connection = real men don't know their born, can't honour Life, the sources of Life, the Mother, the
(W)hole,, Allah, God/dess, Emnptiness, whatever/whoever.

I don't like '*' either. Why not say (in this context): Neo-nazis (possibly being controlled by CIA, etc).

For me the Path means running out of swearwords and enemies, just infinite sadness at how we confuse, deny, damage reality. (on a good day; on a bad day I curse folk too and add more fuel to the fires).

peace and love, keith

_________________
For the defence of our one worldwide civilian Motherland, against whatever ruling or informal fraternities.

May all beings be happy
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one never met Nick in the early days.
First time we nearly met was at the Jimmy Walters event at London central Friends Meeting House.

Apologies for the earlier rant.
I wonder if Nick has Theosophist (Egyptian/Isis/Osiris/Blavatsky) leanings.
Just a theory.
I read Peter Levenda's book 'Unholy Alliance'

ian neal wrote:
astro3 wrote:
I was a founder-member of the UK's ‘Truth’ or 9/11 movement.

It is not and never has been a membership organisation. It is a campaign to which people can choose to lend their support to. The reason for this should be clear.

_________________
www.rethink911.org
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.l911t.com
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Please go easy on hate words Reply with quote

keith Mothersson wrote:
peace and love


And to you. Moderate language please.
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Please go easy on hate words Reply with quote

keith Mothersson wrote:
Dear Kevin,
I think someone else used the 'c***' word first, but whoever it was, I don't like it. I think it is seriously sexist.

C*** is where we all come from - as shown by our belly buttons and Shiela-na-gig images.
The word for c*** in french is con.
Ignorance = in-con-naissance = lost our filial connection = real men don't know their born, can't honour Life, the sources of Life, the Mother, the
(W)hole,, Allah, God/dess, Emnptiness, whatever/whoever.

I don't like '*' either. Why not say (in this context): Neo-nazis (possibly being controlled by CIA, etc).

For me the Path means running out of swearwords and enemies, just infinite sadness at how we confuse, deny, damage reality. (on a good day; on a bad day I curse folk too and add more fuel to the fires).

peace and love, keith


Yes,
Sorry,
I used it in direct respose to AntonH who used it in the same form and then used a quote from white supremacists to basically, as usual, imply I was a Nazi.
It seemed an appropriate way (at the time) to show I can't stand the Nazi mindset.
Won't do it again.
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Stefan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh... this is a disapoiting and decidedly un-peaceful thread. I don't really want to partipate but since I've been mentioned in it, I feel the need to set the record straight.

Paul

I did not pull out of the sister site because of peer pressure from my friends in We Are Change UK.

I was never 'in'.

Ants asked me if I would consider moderating, I was hesitant because of the heavy "beam weaponry" which had already started up, Ants asked me to consider it as he wanted a mix of views and I did, principally through respect for Ants as a person. I never confirmed I would agree to be a moderator. When an email was sent out (or so I thought at the time) stating that the forum was run by WY Truth and We Are Change - which immensly annoyed all members of WAC.

We don't run forums and we DON'T DO BEAM WEAPONS thank you sir. I felt my dalliance with the idea of being involved had jeperodised the groups credibility and felt guilty and this seemed like a sign if I needed one that this was not for me. I confirmed that I would not be a moderator.

Anton,

You happened to show an interest on the one month that we missed our 11th month action - we aren't perfect - but it's no need to take it personally. If you'd come about any other month of the year we'd have been there.

_________________


Peace and Truth
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