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Sifting evidence on the Tavistock Square Bus Bomb

 
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astro3
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Sifting evidence on the Tavistock Square Bus Bomb Reply with quote

I just read all of the J7 Tavistock section, 96 pages.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/julyseventh/index.php?showtopic=23&st=406
Phew, I’m a bit wiped out. Intense, or what? How long before they pass 100 pages? Awestruck, I humbly offer the following comments:

They accept (or did not dispute) Staraker’s sequence of images of the 30 bus.
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=10691&postdays=0&post order=asc&start=120
That has all the crowd up the top deck really there to start with (as Daniel O once assured me that they were) and they then come down and the empty-top bus pics are taken much later.

For three years this has been the ‘unwritable’ section on the J7 site http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/7-7-30-bus-tavistock-square.html and all they have put up is a sequence of 7 sky-pictures of an empty, deserted bus with the time written as 10.54 and the Kingstar van next to it. I had always assumed that this van would not have stayed long in that position and that therefore those pictures had to have been taken on July 7th. That sets up the paradox of a bus empty a few minutes after the explosion. However, Ant also found an image of the Kingstar van being carted off on Sunday, wrapped up and on a lorry. So, could it be that the blast somehow immobilised the Kingstar van, and those air- pictures were taken the next morning?

There is a silver car next to the bus, with windows shattered (unlike the Kingstar van) and they identify it as belonging to a Martin Bailey. It was showered with debris from the bus and photos show a large chunk of debris across the roof. I always found it hard to believe that this chunk of debris would be left lying there, completely blocking the road, until the next day. Do you want to believe that? Mr Bailey saw a body lying between his car and the bus, absent from these sky-photos. No-one has written the J7 section on Tavistock Square all this time, I guess because this time sequence seems not resolvable, and whether or not the load of top-deck passengers were genuine.

Quote:
Thus the story, accepted without question by the British media, is that the bomb detonates at the back of the bus, the roof gets blown clean off and the front destination board gets blown out but at least twelve upper deck 'passengers' show no sign of any injury or even damage to their clothes.
I’d always believed this was impossible, and that the rent-a-crowd on the top deck could not be genuine. But, look here at the blown-up image made by Adrian C., http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/images/bus/bus_large.jpg showing two of the figures on the top deck just as the driver is walking away, and we see here that one has blood on his coat and the other is tending his bleeding nose: so these do look like authentic survivors.
The bus driver did not stay around long, maybe till 10 o’clock. Hope Adrian will do a few more of these blow-up pics.

The high-res pics of the bus with passengers on top deck that got onto all the front pages were taken by a US professional photographer who conveniently happened to be around, Matthew Rosenberg. An American photo journalist, "currently working for the "Daily Progress in Charlottesville, Virginia". Very convenient.


Last edited by astro3 on Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Frazzel
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Sifting evidence on the Tavistock Square Bus Bomb Reply with quote

astro3 wrote:
Six women on the lower deck get identified and their testimonies heard: Louise Barry, Reva Cope, Regina Friel, Anat Rosenberg, Catherine Klestov, Nina Lodzak, and possibly Angela Griffiths though it is (oddly enough) uncertain whether she was on the bus or just watching it. Of those six, not one has corroborated Daniel O’s testimony.


Why should they? Have you asked them? Why not use Daniel's full name?

I'm afraid Nick this piece is riddled through with assumption upon assumption, a loaded and partial view of events which is most likely to be dismissed as such and will only spark infighting by piling unfounded accusation upon unfounded accusation.

What a shame, with so much J7 analysis you could have come up with something less accusatory, more balanced and you could have moved the 7/7 story forward.

Would be good to see the facts you dug out rather than this emotional tirade.

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astro3
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I deleted other comments as Frazzell didn't like them, only left query over photo sequence.


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astro3
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two bodies?

I’d like to suggest that two corpses are detectable in all of the web-available images of the Tavistock Square blast. The US professional photographer Matthew Rosenberg who conveniently happened to be on the scene and took the best photos has 3 photos of the event: www.matthewrosenberg.com/news/ and they are visible in two of them. One of these is best seen in the excellent enlarged format www.officialconfusion.com/77/images/bus/bus_large.jpg and the corpse is visible behind the driver. The other image can also be seen in Staraker’s sequence:
www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=10691&postdays=0&postorder=a sc&start=90 image (F)

Please do contradict me, if you can see more. A group gathers round a figure lying on the pavement near the zebra crossing, and that figure might be Tony Cancellera, with his girlfriend Tania Calabrese beside him: he’s still very much alive. The owner of the silver car behind the Kingstar van (all its windows shattered), Martin Bailey, said he saw a corpse lying in between his car and the bus. I’m not at all denying that, just suggesting that we may not see this in any pictures.

In Obachike’s book ‘The 4th Bomb’ he has two dead as initially reported (p.199). That is compatible with the number of dead we actually see in pictures. Who knows, Reva Cope might have died on the lower deck (her partner heard her voice suddenly stop on the phone at the instant of blast) and likewise Anthony Fatayi-Williams might have been lying on the lower deck floor, as witnessed by Regina Friel, and might have died there: but we have no authentication of such deaths by any witnesses, nor pictures of them ... do we?

Let’s quote from Obachike:
Quote:
The bus was destroyed above ground yet the number of dead took a while to clarify, even though by noon, when forensic investigators arrived, the bus had been cleared of bodies. Media ‘sources’ reported 2 fatalities, despite the wholesale carnage evident to all passing by that morning p.195
.
So using Occam’s Razor I’m suggesting that two dead is a rock-bottom starting point for counting ‘real deaths’ at Tavistock Square.

For comparison, here is the sequence of death-estimates:
2 - morning media reports according to Obachike.
(I was told that the BBC had initally reported 3 but that may be wrong)
3 - bus driver , George Psaradakis went home to Greece and told his family,
Quote:
'He said that two passengers were killed and that a girl died in his arms,” said Yiannis Paterakis, his uncle
according to the Athens News Agency.
7 - Stephanie Riakakuei a psychologist who worked at University College, London and came and helped after the blast, reported 'at least seven' dead (Telegraph, July 8th)
10 - Evening Standard July 7th, 'at least ten' dead.
13 - Number cited on Friday the next day, this becomes canonical.

So, for whatever reason, which we may never know, no-one on the day seems able to estimate the number who have died. For a crime scene, that does seem unusual.
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