The Sunday Telegraph was given the details of a secret interrogation report based on an interview with the surviving terrorist. The 19-year-old suspect, who lived near the Pakistani city of Multan, is said to have joined Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the Islamist fundamentalist group, a year ago. He is alleged to have confessed that he received weapons instruction at a training camp in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. The plot is said to have been planned from there. A group then made a reconnaissance of Bombay earlier this year.
Pakistan called an emergency cabinet meeting after announcing that it would not send the country's secret service chief to New Delhi. The Indian government had demanded the head of the ISI travel in person to respond to questions.
Same article but further down we have
added strange how earlier stories said ISI chief was already on his way
Can't be assed to read the rest _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 12914 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject:
I was told to kill to my last breath': Captured terrorist's account of Mumbai massacre reveals plan was to kill 5,000
By Ian Gallagher
Last updated at 5:08 PM on 30th November 2008
The only terrorist captured alive after the Mumbai massacre has given police the first full account of the extraordinary events that led to it – revealing he was ordered to ‘kill until the last breath’.
Azam Amir Kasab, 21, from Pakistan, said the attacks were meticulously planned six months ago and were intended to kill 5,000 people.
He revealed that the ten terrorists, who were highly trained in marine assault and crept into the city by boat, had planned to blow up the Taj Mahal Palace hotel after first executing British and American tourists and then taking hostages.
Mercifully, the group, armed with plastic explosives, underestimated the strength of the 105-year-old building’s solid foundations.
As it is, their deadly attacks have left close to 200 confirmed dead, with the toll expected to rise to nearly 300 once the hotel has been fully searched by security forces.
Yesterday, Kasab chillingly went through details of Wednesday night’s killing spree across the city, which ended when he was cornered by police.
He pretended to be dead, which probably saved his life. It was only when he was being transferred to hospital by ambulance that his accompanying officer noticed he was still breathing.
Once inside Nair Hospital, Kasab, who suffered only minor injuries, told medical staff: ‘I do not want to die. Please put me on saline.’
And as Indian commandos ended the bloody 59-hour siege at the Taj yesterday by killing the last three Islamic gunmen, baby-faced Kasab was dispassionately detailing the background to the mayhem.
He described how its mastermind briefed the group to ‘target whites, preferably Americans and British’.
Some of the militants, including Kasab, posed as students during a visit to Mumbai a month ago, filming the ‘strike locations’ and familiarising themselves with the city’s roads.
And Kasab described how he and an accomplice sprayed machine-gun fire around a busy railway station, killing dozens of people, before intending to move to the exclusive district of Malabar Hill, where they planned to ‘take VIPs hostage’.
One police officer said: ‘That, thankfully, never happened because we managed to stop them.’ Police insist that Kasab confessed to being a member of the Pakistani terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has denied involvement in the carnage, and claimed he and the others were trained in the Muslim country.
Intelligence analysts are keeping more of an open mind, however. And some political observers point out an unhelpful tendency by the Indian authorities continually to blame ‘Pakistan elements’ without solid evidence.
Some speculative reports emerging from New Delhi even suggested Pakistan’s intelligence services had a hand in training the terrorists.
Meanwhile, claims that up to seven of the terrorists could have been British men of Pakistani origin, who had connections to West Yorkshire, were being widely discounted.
A top Indian official, Maharashtra state chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh, said there was ‘no authentic information’ to suggest that any British citizens were involved.
The UK Foreign Office also said there was ‘no evidence’ that any of the terrorists were British.
One report suggested that one of the terrorists had been working at the Taj hotel as a kitchen porter for up to eight months before the attacks and had produced a British passport during his job interview. But this was strongly denied by the hotel management.
Scotland Yard detectives arrived in Mumbai yesterday, but only to lend their assistance and expertise to the investigation.
According to the account of Kasab’s interrogation, given by police sources, the terrorists were trained over five months in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, then had a month off before the attacks. At some stage, they also received intensive instruction in ‘marine assault’ operations.
Kasab and the nine other terrorists, who communicated using BlackBerry mobiles, began their journey to Mumbai on November 21.
Initially unarmed, they left an isolated beach near Karachi in a small boat, before being picked up the following day by a larger vessel.
At this point they were each given eight hand grenades, an AK-47 rifle, an automatic pistol and ammunition. And in anticipation of a lengthy siege, they also carried dried fruit.
Kasab told police that the group then hijacked a fishing trawler bearing the name Kuber near the maritime boundary between Pakistan and India.
A rubber dinghy lies in a police station in Mumbai, it was found near the site of the attacks - Kasab said the gunmen transferred to inflatable dinghies to go ashore after journeying from a beach near Karachi, Pakistan
Four of its crew are missing while the fifth has been found dead, apparently beheaded. Its owner and his brother are being questioned by police.
On November 23, after reaching Porbandar in the Indian state of Gujarat, 310 nautical miles from Mumbai, the insurgents were intercepted by two coastguard officers. The group hoisted a white flag and allowed the two men to board their boat.
According to Kasab, one of the militants then attacked one of the officers, slitting his throat and throwing him overboard. The other man was forced to help the group reach their destination before being executed as the vessel drew near to Mumbai.
For most of the journey, Kasab’s friend, 25-year-old Abu Ismail, a trained sailor, steered the vessel using GPS equipment. Three speedboats met the Kuber a mile and a half from the Mumbai seafront on Wednesday. After waiting for the light to fade, they moved off, later transferring to two inflatable dinghies to go ashore.
The two groups then split up. Four men went to to the Taj hotel, two to the Jewish centre of Nariman House, Kasab and another man set off by taxi towards the railway station, and two headed for the Leopold restaurant.
While his colleagues were executing hostages at the Taj, Kasab and Ismail first opened fire with their assault rifles at around 10.20pm, killing dozens of people standing at Chhatrapati Shivaji railway station.
Then they hijacked a police 4x4, killing the two officers inside. Kasab told investigators they continued their killing spree by attacking a petrol station and blowing up a taxi before being stopped.
‘I have done right,’ he told investigators. ‘I have no regrets.’
One police source said: ‘He [Kasab] was telling our people this in a most dispassionate way and responded to the horror their faces betrayed by shrugging his shoulders, as if it was all of no real consequence.’
Sources said tests on Kamal’s blood and urine showed he was under the influence of drugs to help keep him alert during the long battles with Indian security forces.
Guests who had been holed up during the three-day siege at the Taj hotel told of their ordeal yesterday.
Briton Richard Farah, who was trapped in his room before being rescued by commandos, hid his passport in his false leg after terrorists were reported to be seeking British and American passport holders.
‘I saw all the blood and broken glass and shrapnel. Tons of blood and shoes, people’s shoes, women’s shoes, men’s shoes,’ he said.
‘In the last few hours there were so many explosions and the floors shook.
I said, 'I’m a goner,' because it was right below me.
Eventually, we got to the lobby. I’d hidden my passport in my leg. If they had come to get me they wouldn’t have found it.’
Evidence was emerging last night that the the gunmen killed their victims early in the siege and fooled Indian security forces into thinking that they were holding hostages.
a secret interrogation report based on an interview with the surviving terrorist
I think this says it all really, torture most likely? Bribery also? Oh and 19 so probably the youngest handily? _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Yacht tycoon gave interview before he was killed
by AFP, PlushAsia|28 November 2008
Keywords: taj mahal hotel, india, mumbai
London, England - An AFP report said a British-Cypriot businessman was on Thursday named as one of 125 people killed in the Mumbai attacks, hours after he gave an interview describing how he was trapped in a hotel with gunmen outside.
The British Foreign Office announced that one Briton was among the dead, and Cypriot foreign ministry officials later confirmed reports that the man was 73-year-old Andreas Liveras, a yacht tycoon who emigrated to London in 1963.
The Guardian Online said he had travelled to Mumbai for a boat show.
"He was executed in cold blood and he was carrying a British passport."
Phaedonas Anastasiou, a Cypriot Foreign Ministry official
The Times of India reported that Mr Liveras' decision to stay at the Taj was influenced by his fondness for the food served at the hotel.
The Cyprus News Agency reported his brother, Theophanis Liveras, as saying that Mr Liveras had been abducted with a large group of other diners.
The Times Online said that Phaedonas Anastasiou, a Cypriot Foreign Ministry official, said: “He was executed in cold blood and he was carrying a British passport.”
As news filtered out from Mumbai after the attacks, Mr Liveras gave a telephone interview to the BBC from the Taj Mahal hotel, one of two luxury hotels targeted by gunmen in a series of co-ordinated attacks across the city.
He told the British broadcaster: “As soon as we sat at the table we heard the machine gun fire outside in the corridors, everywhere.
“We hid ourselves under the table and then they switched all the lights off. But the machine gun kept going, and they took us into the kitchen, and from there into a basement, to come up into a salon.”
He estimated there were “more than 1,000 people” in the room, a mixture of residents, tourists and locals.
“We’re not hiding, we are locked in here – nobody tells us anything, the doors are locked and we are inside,” Mr Liveras said.
“We have got hotel staff here at this moment who are helping us a lot, providing water and sandwiches. But nobody is eating really, people are frightened.”
"Everybody is just living on their nerves."
Andreas Liveras told the BBC
He added that, “it’s very quiet. The last bomb exploded about 45 minutes ago and it shook the hotel up. Nobody comes in this room and nobody goes out, and we don’t really know”.
“All we know is the bombs are next door and the hotel is shaking every time a bomb goes off,” he said.
The interviewer put to him that he must be terrified, to which Mr Liveras replied: “Everybody is...we are just looking at each other, and every time you hear something everybody jumps. Everybody is just living on their nerves.”
After the interview
According to The Times Online report, hours later after the BBC interview, at 9.30pm Mumbai time, Mr Liveras was pronounced dead by doctors at St George’s hospital. The circumstances of his death remain unclear, but a hospital spokesman said that he had been shot “multiple times”.
He might have escaped death if he had been carrying his Cypriot passport, family members said last night. “But he never took it with him,” Theophanis Liveras, his brother, told The Times. The terrorists had separated British and American passport holders, he said. Just hours earlier, Mr Liveras had called his son, Dion, in England to say that he was safe and being well treated.
"He's been shot."
Theophanis told by Indian woman who answered his brother's phone
“He was in a good frame of mind,” his brother said.
Mr Liveras’s British assistant was one of the hostages picked out for execution but he managed to escape, despite suffering gunshot wounds. He was being treated for serious wounds in hospital in Bombay last night. The assistant called Mr Liveras’s family in England to alert them to his plight without knowing his fate.
Theophanis, who lives in Nicosia, Cyprus, called Mr Liveras’s mobile phone, which was answered by an Indian woman who shocked him by shouting: “He’s been shot.”
According to The Times Online, Mr Liveras was a self-made millionaire, who ran a chartered yacht company, Liveras Yachts, based in Monaco where he advertised “the world’s most impressive private yachts to the charter community.”
In his online biography, Mr Liveras described his life as a “classic rags-to-riches tale”. When he arrived in London he worked for a small bakery as a delivery man but later bought the business, transforming it into one of largest independent manufacturers of frozen gateaux in Europe. It was later sold for millions, allowing him to move into the yachting business.
Mr Liveras was ranked 265 in the Sunday Times newspaper’s list of the richest people in Britain.
The victim was the first of nine children born to a shepherd in Cyprus. His brother said: “His death is a terribly unfair loss. If he had been killed in an accident, for example on his private plane, I could have understood that. But this is so utterly unfair.”
Mr Liveras is survived by three daughters and a son who all live in England.
It's a new angle on the attack, may be of interest. _________________ 'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Below it states he went to a restaurant to eat, the lights were off and machine gun fire and bombs were going off everywhere. How does one then give an interview to a newsorganisation under such circumstances and how does one get the connection?
Follow the explanation surrounded by machine guns in the restaurant and then taken to a basement and then giving an ...interview...
His last words before death
28/11/2008 12:19:00 PM
A British-Cypriot businessman was on Thursday named as one of 125 people killed in the Mumbai attacks, hours after he gave an interview describing how he was trapped in a hotel with gunmen outside.
The British Foreign Office announced that one Briton was among the dead, and Cypriot foreign ministry officials later confirmed reports that the man was 73-year-old Andreas Liveras, a yacht tycoon who emigrated to London in 1963.
The Cyprus News Agency reported his brother Theophanis as saying that Liveras had been abducted with a large group of other diners and "assassinated in cold blood during the terrorist attacks."
As news filtered out from Mumbai after the attacks, Liveras gave a telephone interview to the BBC from the Taj Mahal hotel, one of two luxury hotels targeted by gunmen in a series of co-ordinated attacks across the city.
He had heard it was the best restaurant in Mumbai, but told the British broadcaster: "As soon as we sat at the table we heard the machine gun fire outside in the corridors, everywhere.
"We hid ourselves under the table and then they switched all the lights off. But the machine gun kept going, and they took us into the kitchen, and from there into a basement, to come up into a salon."
He estimated there were "more than 1,000 people" in the room, a mixture of residents, tourists and locals.
Signs Of An Attempted Coup In New Delhi
Written by www.daily.pk
Sunday, 30 November 2008 14:46
With a traumatized nation and a paralyzed government, a core group of secular ideologues and Hindu nationalists are executing a ‘soft coup’ in New Delhi to bring to power hawks who want to pursue America’s agenda of grooming India as a regional policeman, sort out Pakistan and confront China.
India will self-destroy in the process. India’s military and intelligence has been penetrated. The man who uncovered the plot, Hemant Karkare, the anti-terrorism chief of Mumbai police, was the first target of the mysterious terrorists. Patriotic Indians need to wake up and save their country.
Preliminary signs emerging from India’s power center, New Delhi, paint a picture of an unstable situation. Security is already compromised. But a bigger story is taking place in New Delhi, not Mumbai. There are disturbing signs that India, a nuclear-armed nation of a billion people, is witnessing a ‘soft coup’ attempt involving secular rightwing ideologues and Hindu nationalists.
Exploiting the fears of a traumatized nation and a government caught sleeping at the wheel, a core group of rightwing ideologues within India’s military, intelligence and political elite are trying to overthrow Manmohan Singh’s government. The plan apparently is to help the rise of rightwing elements in power and firmly push India in a confrontation with Pakistan and some other countries in the region.
The objective of this core group is to see India emerge as a superpower closely allied with the United States. They are excited about American plans for India as a regional policeman and have no problem in confronting China and Pakistan to achieve this status. They think time is slipping and they don’t want a hesitant political leadership in their way. Already the instability in the wake of Mumbai attacks is being exploited to start a war with Pakistan. The fact that this will also help U.S. military that is facing a tough time in Afghanistan appears to be more than just a coincidence.
In the very first hours of the Mumbai attack, the unknown terrorists were able to achieve a singular feat: the targeted murder of Hemant Karkare, the chief antiterrorism officer in the Indian police. The man was responsible for exposing the secret links between the Indian military and Hindu terror groups. His investigation resulted in uncovering the involvement of three Indian military intelligence officers in terrorist acts that were blamed on Muslim groups. At the time of his murder, Karkare was pursuing leads that were supposed to uncover the depth of the nexus between the Indian military and the sudden rise of well armed and well financed Hindu terrorism groups with their wide network of militant training camps across India.
Curiously, a CCTV camera has caught on tape one of the unknown terrorists when he arrived with his group at their first target: a train station. The man, dressed in a jeans and a black T-shirt and carrying a machine gun [see picture below], is wearing an orange-colored wrist band very common among religious Hindus. As a comparison, a recent picture of a Hindu militant activist taken during an event this year is shown to the right where the militant is wearing a similar band.
Left, a CCTV snapshot of one of the Mumbai terrorists, wearing the sacred Hindu armband and carrying a machine gun. Right, a picture of a typical member of Hindu terror groups, wearing the same armband. The band is sacred to fundamentalist Hindus who believe wearing it shows devotion and brings good luck from gods. [click here if you can’t see the pictures]
An aggressive advertisement campaign has already begun across India urging a scared population to rise against the government.
On Friday, front-page advertisements appeared in several newspapers in Delhi showing blood splattered against a black background and the slogan “Brutal Terror Strikes At Will” in bold capital letters. The ads signed off with a simple message: “Fight Terror. Vote B.J.P.”
The Indian, the Pakistani and the international media has not woken up yet to this ‘soft coup’ taking place in New Delhi. Some observers and journalists are beginning to catch its first signs. This is how a New York Times reporter, Somini Sengupta, has characterized it today:
“Mr. Singh’s government had lately hit back at the Bharatiya Janata Party with evidence that its supporters, belonging to a range of radical Hindu organizations, had … been implicated in terrorist attacks. Indeed, in a bizarre twist, the head of the police antiterrorism unit, Hemant Karkare, killed in the Mumbai strikes, had been in the midst of a high-profile investigation of a suspected Hindu terrorist cell. Mr. Karkare’s inquiry had netted nine suspects in connection with a bombing in September of a Muslim-majority area in Malegaon, a small town not far from Mumbai. “
Evidence is emerging that Karkare knew he was facing the prospect of a violent death because of the investigation he was pursuing. What Karkare probably didn’t know is that his elimination would come in such a perfectly executed operation.
Only hours before Karkare’s violent death, his close friend, retired Colonel Rahul Gowardhan, received an envelope. Karkare called him to say he was sending him a confidential letter. This is how Times of India has reported the story:
Just some hours before that, Karkare had sent a letter to him in an envelop which had some “personal” content. “Hemant had called me up on Wednesday,” said Gowardhan, a top official with MSEDCL. “As I was in a meeting, we decided to postpone the talk. He hung up saying he would be sending me an envelope. When I wanted to know the content, he told me to just read the letter that’s inside it. I returned home and read it. I cannot share the content of the letter with anyone,” said Gowardhan.
The highly sophisticated nature of the attack in Mumbai, lasting for almost 60 hours, diminishes the chances of a foreign invasion and increases the possibility that influential elements in Indian intelligence and Hindu militant organizations might have helped orchestrate this incident, pretty much like they did in the Sept. 29 Malegaon attack, in which they tried to simulate a Muslim terrorist group. In that attack, in which three Indian military intelligence officers have been arrested, the objective was to provoke a Muslim backlash that could justify a massive state crackdown against minorities.
Observers are already seeing how the hawks within the Indian establishment and Hindu militant organizations have seized the initiative from a paralyzed government. The Indian army and intelligence are already penetrated. Now the real culprits are channeling the fears of a traumatized people toward Pakistan.
India is on the same path today that the Bush administration hawks took the American nation on after 9/11. But this time, patriotic Indians have the benefit of hindsight. They should stop the secular warmongers and Hindu militants from hijacking their country. The future of the entire region depends on it.
NEW DELHI: A day after completing its operations in Mumbai, the National Security Guard (NSG) on Sunday said the terrorists who kept several guests as hostages in Taj Mahal and Trident-Oberoi hotels did not make "any demand" and had carried out almost all the killings before the commandos arrived.
NSG chief J K Dutt said, "We did not receive any demand from the terrorists who appeared to have come with the sole intention of killing as many people as they could."
Dutt also said the terrorists did not appear to have plans to blow up the Taj hotel as they lacked enough explosives. The amount of explosives recovered from them did not indicate that they could bring down the building, he told reporters after arriving from Mumbai.
During ‘Operation Cyclone’ carried out in the Taj hotel, the NSG faced difficulties due to the building's old architecture, with long connecting passages, spiral staircases and rooms with high ceilings. Dutt said the terrorists were "quite conversant with locations" and kept moving from one place to another to avoid direct encounter with the commandos.
The commandos did not know where the "passages would lead", thus posing a hurdle in the operations. Though the commandos had the layout plan of the hotel, the unique structure posed problems. The terrorists, however, knew the place very well and preferred big rooms with high ceilings and single exit and entry doors to take positions.
"They avoided small rooms or kitchens where they could be easily trapped by us," Dutt said. The terrorists were setting the upholstery on fire to distract the commandos so that they could change their positions. "The moment a fire was started, fire brigades were called in and we paused shooting. They took advantage of this and changed their positions. We came to know about their tactics. Despite the fire, we entered a room and shot one of the terrorists who fell out of the window which was even caught on camera," Dutt said.
During the function, commandos and officers described their experience as colleagues hung on to every word. Some even wanted to know whether the sequence of events portrayed by the TV channels was correct.
"Even my wife did not believe what I told her after reaching here. She believed the TV channels more than what me," a commando who participated in the operation at Oberoi hotel said.
Another commando described how he received a congratulatory greeting card by one of his buddies, right after the completion of Oberoi (Trident) operation. "I still cannot figure out how could he manage a card in that situation," he said.
Meanwhile, the NSG has decided to include the Mumbai experience in its new training schedule for its elite Black Cat commandos. "The Mumbai siege has been a learning experience for us. We will include this in our future commando trainings," a senior official said, adding it was the first time the NSGe had operated in crowded and densely populated areas.
But they're not very effective in killing the actual targets. Despite their bags of almond snacks, the terrorists kill mostly innocent bystanders. Confusion reigns about whether or not the high-value (ie: British, American and Jewish) hostages have been released. Keep on worrying everyone.
Naturally, Al Qaeda immediately rises to the top of the suspects list. The responsible group, however, has never been heard of before. Somehow these terrorist cells always miraculously escape intelligence and burst onto the scene completely unexpectedly. Which is weird, you know, that they're so good at avoiding surveillance but yet they suck at the nuts and bolts of carrying out an effective terrorist attack. Hmm.
But we know that these terrorists are vicious young Islamic extremists and Muslim militants. What other explanation can there possibly be?
-- blink blink blink --
Look up Chabad Lubavitch. The Chabad Lubavitch is a Jewish Supremacist group whose leaders regularly enjoy audiences with world leaders.
Here they are with George W. Bush:
And here are some with Michael Chertoff. These rabbis have had their pictures taken with many famous people. Go ahead and look it up. Look up what they stand for. Have you ever heard of them? Do you think they are some obscure, harmless rabbis? Think again. These are powerful people who throw their weight around at the highest levels.
Isn't it strange that their Indian headquarters would be involved in this terrorist attack? What are the odds of that happening? Why does the Chabad Lubavitch even have Indian headquarters?
But can't you just hear it now? "Oh, gee whiz some nice Jewish scholars were attacked by evil Muslim Islamofacist terrorists in India! What are we gonna do, Louise? And they attacked British and Americans citizens, too! They must hate us for our freedoms, and they're anti-Semitic to boot! Goodness gracious. What's this world coming to??"
Some 200 attorneys and jurists packed a ballroom of the Madison Hotel in Morris Township, N.J., for two presentations dealing the nexus between civil rights law and Talmudic jurisprudence.
The topic for the second-annual Jewish Law Symposium, a project of Chabad-Lubavitch of Southeast Morris County, was "Democracy and the Uncertain Fate of Individual Rights."
Leading off the discussion was New Jersey Supreme Court Justice Barry T. Albin, who tackled the traditional American concept of civil rights; Rabbi Shlomo Yaffe, dean of the Institute of American and Talmudic Law, gave attendees the Jewish approach to the issue.
In a surprise appearance, the newly installed chief justice of the New Jersey Supreme Court, Stuart Rabner, shared a few words with the crowd before turning the dais over to Albin.
Participants could earn New York and Pennsylvania Continuing Legal Education credits for their attendance. "
The laws and ethics of the Talmud have served as a cornerstone of humanity's civil and moral infrastructure, while shaping it's legal systems," said Rabbi Shalom Lubin, founder of the Jewish Law Symposium and executive director of the sponsoring Chabad House."
MICHAEL A. HOFFMAN'S NOTE: The "Institute of American and Talmudic Law" (see below) was co-founded by Nathan Lewin, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's close friend. Lewin is a member of the institute's faculty. Mr. Lewin is on record advocating the killing of the parents and siblings of Palestinian suicide bombers. Justice Scalia is a staunch supporter of the institute, which teaches American judges and lawyers how to apply rabbinic halacha to US courts. There was widespread condemnation of Rowan Williams, England's Archbishop of Canterbury, when he said recently that some of Islam's Sharia law should be allowed to play a part in British jurisprudence. But the incorporation of Talmudic law into the US judiciary raises nary a whisper of disapprobation from the crusaders for "Western values"who denounced Williams. Do they imagine that rabbinic law is a western value? Note that the state education departments of New York and Pennsylvania officially accredit the Institute of American and Talmudic Law. Needless to say, the association of the Talmud with "civil rights" for gentiles is chutzpagh with a capital "C." Such falsification would leave even George Orwell speechless.
Outrage and accusations from India:
Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State. The Home Minister Shivraj Patil should resign. The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India. India should immediately snap all relations with Israel. We owe this much to Karkare and the brave ATS men who had shown the courage to arrest Praggya Singh, Raj Kumar Purohit, the army officer and several others.
An explanation that actually makes sense:
Modern criminal investigation still rests on the Aristotile's 3 equally important causal factors: Means, Method and Motivation.
Factor analysis - Means, Method and Motivation: Powerful western media organisations reinforce their opinions with repetition, linking assaults like these with former "Islamist attacks" and another "terrorist attack". Their logic and factor analysis use (1) the weapons used, (2) the similarity of past attacks by "Al Queda" and (3) motivation. But of course they never consider the possibility, based on this same factor analysis, that the architects may be the CIA and/or Mossad.
Means: That the most powerful military machine in the world has the means to arm groups like the one who is carrying out the Mumbai attacks requires no apology or defense.
Method: History is replete with examples of U.S./Israeli use of a surrogate to attack their enemies. William John Fox pointed this out in his exemplary analysis, Deliver Us From Chaos: Ten Political Commandments. In 1953 they used domestic terrorism to overthrow Mohammad Mosaddeq, former Prime Minister of Iran. They used the Afghan Mujahideen to attack Russia in the same year of their resistance. The CIA and the U.S. ambassador secretly engineered the “Rose Revolution” in Georgia in 2003 and "the U.S. encouraged the Israeli-trained Georgian army to invade the disputed enclave of South Ossetia five years later".
Motivation: The only difference between the factors used by the capitalist media and ours is motivation. Regarding motivation, CNN states "they (Deccan Mujahideen) want to create as much damage and attention to themselves as possible". CIA/Mossad are masters at destruction, but the last thing they want is bringing attention to themselves. Motivation for the U.S. to take it's war to Pakistan fits perfectly with these attacks. As a matter of fact, Barack Obama and Joe Biden already declared their intention to take the war to Pakistan and stated with certainty that Obama's "mettle would be tested" by a major international "incident" in the near future. If the perpetrators want to draw attention to themselves, their method (i.e. killing civilians), simply does not make sense unless one buys the Bush regime's religion-based simplism that they are simply "evil". Militant's fighting for causes such as independence or national sovereignty want least of all, international negative attention or popular hatred. The only thing missing from the corporate media explanation is George W. Bush's idiotic claim that "the terrorists are jealous of our freedoms". Using this the corporate media's methodology, it is entirely reasonable and just as easy to implicate the CIA and Mossad.
China official daily says don’t rule out Hindu radicals
Shubhajit Roy Posted: Nov 29, 2008 at 0027 hrs IST
New Delhi: The Chinese Communist party’s mouthpiece — the People’s Daily — has carried a news article, indicating involvement of Hindu radicals in the Mumbai Terror attacks. The article has based its argument on a “red thread” worn by the attackers on their wrists.
The article — written in Chinese — contributed by its India-based correspondent Ren Yan, noted that although the Deccan Mujahideen had claimed responsibility for the attack, “it can be seen from the red thread worn by the attackers around their wrists that they could be Hindus”.
Unnamed analysts are quoted as saying: “Radical elements from Hinduism could also carry out this attack, because they have long opposed the US’s hegemonistic policies”.
It also said that “India’s growing proximity to the US has invoked their strong oppositions. Some within the Hindu community are unhappy with domestic and foreign policies of the Congress-led Government and may have engineered this attack in order to influence the outcome of the approaching general elections.”
MUMBAI AND THE COLLAPSE OF INDUSTRIALIZED CIVILIZATION
Michael C. Ruppert
(Send it. Use it. But leave my name on it and don't change it. -- Especially you, Gore Vidal.)
Thanksgiving, Nov. 27,2008 – 00:30 PST – (After my last post I'd better start putting a time sig on these.)
I do not know how many other corporations are affected; but they will be many, if not most of the Dow 30 and the Fortune 500. And I can tell you that on Friday morning, any customer or client of Citigroup, Symantec or Hewlett-Packard will be unable to get customer assistance over the phone. Warranty service for these corporations will stop. I know that because I have been through that horrible grind with all of them in the last year or so. All of their calls are taken in Mumbai, by Indians. Nothing is working in Mumbai and there can be no certainty when anything will be working. Because the attacks included the premier hotels in the financial district, no multi-national will ever trust the city again. The risk is too great. I can almost bet that the multinationals are all well prepared for attacks on their own facilities, but were totally unprepared for an attack that pulled the city out from under them.
I think many corporations also have data processing and IT centers there are well.
The Achilles tendon of globalization has just been severed.
The Achilles tendon of globalization has just been severed.
Ordinarily, I would go out and start researching to see how bad the exposure is but I already know that it is catastrophic. The markets will do all our research and reporting very quickly for us. Citigroup will be devastated. Its CEO Vikram Pandit, is Indian.
I am certain that this was the intended outcome of the attacks.
Fingers have been pointing to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Depak Chopra has even pointed at Saudi Arabia as a possible financier… with the whole world watching. He is a fine soul, but I wonder if he knows what he's doing. Every head of state in the world with an IQ above 70 is right now living his or her worst nightmare. (You know who that leaves out.) But something in all this smells Chechen or Russian to me in terms of style, organization and capability. No way did this one originate in the States.
I have scanned my memory banks from Munich to Mogadishu; from 9-11 to Tanzania; from Tet to London…. And I keep coming back to Beslan as the closest model. All the CIA hands and terror experts, some of the very good "experts" fail to mention the many similarities this has with Beslan. It's just my gut. Yet no one on CNN or anyplace else I have seen has even mentioned Chechnya. Still, this is truly an entirely new species of terror attack. There is a reason why science does not rush to name and certify new species.
I can draw no conclusions yet, nor should anyone else. Chechnya is bad enough as a possible source, but I pray that these attacks are not Russian. If they are then all I can say is "Duck and cover." This is about as heavy as it gets. There is a strong stew of CIA, Al Qaeda, Russian DFS and Taliban simmering there, (see Rubicon). But, to quote our frequent contributor Victoria, "We are all standing in a pool of gasoline"… and someone just threw the match.
Sometimes understanding is the booby prize; like the guy who stood on the bow of the Titanic screaming, "I'm not getting off this ship until I find out why this happened!"
What scares me most about the Mumbai attacks is the following:
1. They are not over yet.
2. We don't know who did it.
3. At this level of sophistication I would expect the capacity for a "follow-on" in the near future. If the intent of the attack is to put the United States completely out of business it will have to do so quickly.
4. The United States still has enormous military power which might be viewed in some DoD circles now as "Use it or lose it." They too can see the writing on the Imperial wall.
5. The attackers have made no demands.
6. To even publicly breathe that it might be state-sponsored puts us (i.e. all mankind) a hair trigger away from nuclear conflict in any off our theaters tactically and on a MAD basis strategically.
7. The logistics and C3 (Command, Control and Communications) for this looks state-sponsored.
8. This is an absolutely brilliant and potentially fatal blow aimed precisely at the weakest spots we have mapped in "Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" and at "From The Wilderness".
The fact that there are no convincing suspects as yet also points to a state-sponsor trying to disguise itself as a large terror group. That might explain why there are no demands... Demands identify the suspect.
I am being very careful right now. There are many intriguing threads and it is too early for any of us to rush to judgment. It took me two and half years and many tens of thousands of dollars in research and investigation to conclude and write that Richard Cheney had masterminded and executed 9-11 for the purpose of seizing Iraqi oil. My book has never been challenged or even acknowledged by the U.S. government; a government which spent millions on web sites and press releases to (rightfully) discredit all other 9-11 investigations. My book is in the Harvard Business School Library. It has a thousand footnotes. It has sold a lot of copies.
The analytic construct for Mumbai I have is this:
It is clear that the United States is imploding and that its economic, military and political influence are dying. As with all empires, it was the power of the state; whether economic, cultural, or military, which held the divergent parts together. In many cases enemies were bound next to enemies like two cats tied so tightly in a wet burlap sack that they could not move. But if the sack were to loosen, weaken…and expand? What if six wet cats were in the sack as it started to rend?
Our present, publicly-acknowledged cats include India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Now throw in Russia and Chechnya… Shake and stir.
Is it sinking in how dangerous this is?
I think I understand how Edward R. Murrow felt in London during the Blitz… What a giant he was… Maybe I know what I want to be when I grow up.
The Indian people have crushed the plans of Anglo-American imperialism before, admirably.
I'm quite confident they will do so again.
While I wouldn't for a second wish to defend Anglo-American imperialist ambitions or suggest anyone except the Indian people should govern the Indian subcontinent, partition was in my view a tragedy leading to many, many others of which this, it could be said, is the latest.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 12914 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject:
This was not global jihad. Its roots are far closer to home
These attacks were born of local and regional hostilities, and it seems likely a part was played by a Mumbai crime boss
A perverse narcissism seized the British media last week, with several papers seemingly desperate to claim the Mumbai terrorists as British citizens. There was no evidence for this beyond a couple of unsourced stories in the Indian press, but it served to confirm the thesis that the whole operation was organised by al-Qaida and thus merely another manifestation of the cultural clash between Islam and its religious competitors.
The Mumbai attacks were not about global jihad. The attacks on foreign tourists at the Taj and the Oberoi, and on the Lubavitch centre, were designed to secure maximum publicity - a strategy that worked splendidly. Yet the roots of this nightmarish event are to be found elsewhere: in the deterioration in relations between Hindus and Muslims in Mumbai and India since the late 1980s, and in regional relations between India and Pakistan.
The operational key to the Mumbai attacks, however, is almost certainly held by D-Company, the sprawling and hugely effective organised criminal syndicate that is steered from the Pakistani port city of Karachi by the most powerful figure in Mumbai's fabled underworld, Dawood Ibrahim. It is virtually impossible that Dawood was unaware of the preparation of the attack, given the D-Company's extensive intelligence network (which in several past instances has proved more effective than the Indian state's intelligence capacity)...........
Mumbai: Why 9/11 analogy is wrong
Comment - Ravinder Kaur
A growing narrative within India and outside emotively describes the recent terror strike in Mumbai as “India’s 9/11”. On Thursday, the scion of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty called the Mumbai attacks assaults on the nation’s sovereignty, while the editorials in two of India’s largest newspapers, the Times of India and the Hindustan Times carried the 9/11 comparisons forward by describing it as an act of war.
A clear subtext of these comparisons is to respond to the attacks in the same way as the Americans responded by waging a “war on terror”. Pakistan’s involvement is being cited again in popular media and the political establishment. Clearly, the ongoing peace process between India and Pakistan is at risk, given the increasingly hawkish tone set by the Hindu nationalist groups. For these reasons, the 9/11 narrative needs to be challenged now.
The analogy is not only contestable in terms of scale, size and nature; it also mistakenly locates terror in India on a much broader canvas of the global war on terror. As a consequence, complex conflicts within India are linked to a simplified narrative of Islamist violence, thereby removing “India” itself from the realm of analysis. This version of history needs to be cross-examined to highlight the way a politics of terror has shaped India in the past decades.
To begin with, violence is deeply rooted within the history of modern India, beginning with partition in 1947. The ensuing six decades have been marked by frequent events of anti-Muslim violence — often termed “communal violence” — most notably in 1992, after the demolition of historic Babri Mosque in Ayodhya, and then, in 2002, in Guajarat as retribution for the killings of 56 Hindu pilgrims returning from Ayodhya. In both events, thousands were massacred while state agencies were at best ineffective, at worst collusive, in the violence. In this context, the 1993 Mumbai bombings were seen as “Muslim” response to the political marginalization of Muslims by the increasingly aggressive stance of Hindu nationalist groups. According to extreme Hindu nationalist ideology, Muslims are inherently violent and disloyal to the nation — a view all too easily “affirmed” by current reference to the war on terror............
You are invited to subscribe - but no Obarma supporters please lol!
Britain today is in the throes of the greatest and direst transformation in history. We are becoming an ideological state, a country with an official state ideology enforced by the power of the government and unelected bureaucrats in both London and Brussels. In "hate crimes" we now have people serving jail sentences for political thoughts. The Government and European Union is now moving to expand that category ever further across state and national boundaries and in contravention of national constitutions.
The illiberal elite has come to dominate expression in our institutions - education, the media, arts and government. They encourage illegal immigration as part of an agenda for a globalised and cheap work force and have ILLEGALLY gained direct control over the actions of our Police, Judiciary and Military. It is a concerted PLAN to DECONSTRUCT the United Kingdom which they seek to replace with the European Super State (run by corrupt unelected bureaucrats, manipulated by the global corporations and banks).
This group is NOT for extremists but for those on the traditional left and the right who share a belief that this nation and others like it are becoming globalised states governed by ideological thought crimes, which are used to dominate the political spectrum with a single ideology. Our three main Political parties are now so alike, it is basically impossible to have a real choice.
FreeUk is OPEN to those concerned about Freedom of Speech in age of Political Correctness and the promotion of Civil Liberties in a society dominated by oppressive authoritarian politicians, increasingly unaccountable and in the hands of the global money men.
THIS LIST IS NOT OPEN TO FOLLOWERS OF MAINSTREAM PUPPET POLITICS!
JOIN THE CAMPAIGN FOR FREEDOM AND LIBERTY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free" Goethe.
Telegraph: MK ULtra in Mumbai: Terrorists took drugs Message List
Reply | Forward | Delete Message #21701 of 21702 < Prev | Next >
Mumbai attacks: Terrorists took cocaine to stay awake during assault
Terrorists who battled Indian commandos for 60-hours last week relied
on cocaine and other stimulants to stay awake for the duration of the
By Damien McElroy in Mumbai
Last Updated: 7:32AM GMT 02 Dec 2008
Officials said drug paraphernalia, including syringes, was recovered
from the scene of the attacks, which killed almost 200 people.
The heavily built men, who had undergone training at a special marine
camp established by the Lashkar-e-Taibat (LeT) terrorist group in
Pakistan, had also used steroids to build a tougher physique.
"We found injections containing traces of cocaine and LSD left behind
by the terrorists and later found drugs in their blood," said one
"There was also evidence of steroids, which isn't uncommon in
"These men were all toned, suggesting they had been doing some heavy
training for the attacks. This explains why they managed to battle
the commandos for over 50 hours with no food or sleep."
One terrorist used the drugs to keep on fighting despite suffering a
Drugs are commonly used in India by workers in jobs where a lack of
sleep is demanded, such as truck drivers and security guards.
The 10 men who attacked prominent Mumbai landmarks were able to hold
off hundreds of India's best trained special forces by mounting
sophisticated ambushes, maintaining a constant, steady rate of return
fire and a superior knowledge of the layout of the buildings seized.
The gunman captured during the attacks on Mumbai has told police he
underwent months of commando-style training in an Islamist militant
camp in Pakistan.
The training was organised by the LeT and conducted by a former
member of the Pakistani army, a police officer close to the
"They underwent training in several phases, which included training
in handling weapons, bomb making, survival strategies, survival in a
marine environment and even dietary habits," a senior officer said.
The new terrorist attacks in Mumbai have opened new conspiracy theories, one of them that MI6 might be behind those attacks. It would not be hard to convince me it is true, I never believed those London terrorist attacks were genuine, whilst I was in the middle of it all.
But then I have to ask myself, why, and will it, in the long term, benefit British citizens? Or just a few rich people and families in this world? And if it is to benefit us all, then perhaps we can forgo those false flag events, get the full truth, and support our governments in their endeavours. Is it not better, as soldiers, if it is truly worth it, to know what we are dying for?
I am 36 years old. I am a French-Canadian, one of those who voted against conscription to join the army and Great Britain in defeating Germany in both World Wars. Times have changed. I have been living in London for 15 years. And though I don’t have my British Citizenship yet, I am now willing to join the British Army and save my Queen and every single Briton under the Sun. I am British. We’re all Patriots here. I will fight for my country. But only as long as I fully understand what I am fighting for. At the moment, none of this is evident.
I am cynical, I am pessimistic about this world we live in. True, I am a pacifist and would certainly wish to avert any war and any killing, just like most of us. And there perhaps lay the whole problem our governments are facing today. Our morality.
Because if we were not all idealistic people who thought war was a bad thing, and that if we found out that our own governments in the US and in the UK were at the root of all the wars and troubles in the world, we could possibly put a stop to it all, get rid of those governments.
As such, we have become a danger to our leaders, a danger to winning the international political game. We can never hope to ever get the truth about what is really going on in this world now.
False flags events are the only way nowadays to get the masses to accept going to war, to fight the wars our governments and secret services still feel have to be fought and won. At any cost it seems, billions and billions, never mind any economic depression in between.
Yes, we are at war. Yes, the Nuclear Third World War is on our doorstep. Yes, no global financial crisis, no matter how serious it is, will stop that now. It is all being planned and discussed in secret, and moved forward by false flag events to justify it.
For most of these fake events, we have uncovered the truth, we are now pretty much certain most terrorist attacks in this world are just false flag events. And whilst we debate if this is true or not, our global destiny is going forward, we are more at war every day.
Only the why is now important, as we are still so much in the dark, so many steps behind any new crisis, any new terrorist attack, their implications and where this will eventually lead us.
Let’s assume for a second that the British Secret Services, MI6, are behind the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. What is the point of it, what is it that MI6 hopes to achieve by organising these terrorist attacks? Does it benefit the British citizens at all, in the long term? Are they working for British interests? Or is this somehow benefitting some rich corporations or a few rich people and families in the world, and finally can be only detrimental to British citizens? Interesting question, I welcome your views.
Because I would understand this need for secrecy and false flag events if, somehow, we were obliged to fight all these wars in the Middle East, and yet, ultimately, gain nothing out of it. However, if it is not the case, if truly British interests are being served here, on a scale that we cannot even imagine, and that could be justified, then perhaps the government would gain a lot by changing tactics.
All the terrorist attacks in London, Madrid and in New York have somehow been proven, more or less, of being faked. There is certainly enough evidence to seriously question who was ultimately the brain behind all those attacks: our governments.
It does not matter much now, because what was wanted out of these attacks has come to pass, we are at war. You could say they were obvious in the way they went about it, they knew it would eventually be uncovered, and it did not matter as long as the real objective in the short term was reached.
I am no longer angry about it. I can understand why our governments felt they had to do it, in the times we’re living in, filled with impossible ideals incompatible with the true reality of this world. It was the only way to convince the people and the media to go ahead with their real secret foreign policies. One has to be realistic and practical in this world. I bet you learn that early on once you get acquainted with politics and what is truly going on in the world.
What I am saying is, now there is a need for a leap of faith. We need to trust our governments that they know what they are doing, they know what is good for us, that in fact they are working for our future, our great destiny within this rotten world plagued with wars and international deceit.
This secrecy has blinded us all to what was truly going on, on the international scene. It has left us all completely ignorant as to the why our leaders thought it necessary, if not essential, to fight all these wars. We can only hope that our salvation is truly at stake and all of it is justified. And this is what worries us, we are in the dark.
It is possible that none of us will benefit from this, but only some sort of global financial clique, a string of powerful corporations. In the case of Bush and his family, and friends, yes, there would be a real scepticism as to who will ultimately benefit.
In the UK, somehow, it seems a bit different. I don’t think Tony Blair convinced the whole Parliament to go ahead with all his madman’s plans, just to make British Petroleum a few more billions, or simply because of history: the Great British Empire still very much being on the agenda, and the era of colonisation being far from over, let’s control the world!
Perhaps there is a real threat for which we know nothing about. And somehow I think governments are underestimating the capacity of their main commentators and critics, journalists and citizens, to understand and accept any course of action they feel they must take. This has to change.
In the past, Great Britain did not hide its priorities, or why it fought and occupied most of the Middle East, Africa and other colonies. Its soldiers knew very well why or what they were fighting for, a strong empire, just like the Romans had. Maybe in those days it did not matter much. We were fighting against the Spanish and the French, even Belgium, as to who would ultimately control those different parts of the world, the balance of power. Reaping natural resources and turning the indigenous into slaves.
Nothing has changed, it is still very much the same today. It cannot be stated so clearly, we would not buy it now. Would we? We did in the past, we accepted this idea that people of other nations were sub-humans and deserved to be slaves to us, and provide all the natural resources we required. What makes them think we would no longer go for it?
Have we become so moral, ethical and pure in time, that these ideas no longer appeal to us as a whole? I always wanted, in a true British tradition, my twenty Indian slaves to cater for me, within my small one bedroom flat.
Maybe there is more to it than just exploiting other countries and somehow building a great empire like the ones of the past. Perhaps the mentality of our leaders has evolved with the times. Maybe there is more going on that we have been led to believe.
Maybe China and Russia are still at it, trying to take over and impose their lunatic regime upon the world. Maybe there are other threats that we are unaware, for example, just how the Muslim world could suddenly take us over, and we could all be praying to Allah soon. A bit like Hitler taking control through his fascism, except the fascism part would not be political, but religious in nature. And oh, no, I will not talk about oil.
As I said, we can only make a leap of faith, believe our governments know what they are doing, and that there is no New World Order over the horizon serving its own interests without caring for any of us.
And if it is not the case, if there is no New World Order, then perhaps our leaders should seriously consider telling us the truth, without resorting to false flag events and fake terrorist attacks. It is getting tiresome, all those lies, it insults the intelligence, while they think it is working so wonderfully.
After all, no one is buying it nowadays. We are clued up enough to debunk it all, faster than they would hope. It simply does not work anymore, they are no terrorists in this world, we all know that, there are only well paid employees of our governments. It’s been proven so many times, there is no need to prove it any longer, or playing these games.
So why not simply tell us the truth, our true motivations, why it is necessary to go to war with the Middle East, what is really happening, and why it is a necessity to declare a Nuclear Third World War.
We might surprise them, we might understand and support our leaders. After all, I am ready to die for my Queen, even though she is not my real Queen just yet, the paper work has not gone through.
If we are all to die through this Third World War, would it not be nice to know why we are fighting, why it is worth dying? It might motivate us, you might actually get me to go and defend the Empire, and actually believe this is a war worth fighting and dying for. I could easily be convinced, I am after all totally brainless, I’ll buy anything.
I have no doubt it is worth going to war, otherwise, there is no way it would have happened in the first place. So tell us, we will surprise you, we will understand, we will fight willingly, and ultimately we will win, no matter if half the world will be wiped out in the process. We can be reasonable, once we understand that it is us or them, even if vaguely so.
Just like in the old days. Let’s build a strong Empire, let’s control the World, let’s insure democracy and freedom remain the only values worth respecting. No Bolshevik or Muslim will dictate to us how this world should be, nor will we ever listen to whatever God China might have. We will keep our supremacy of this world at any cost, we will all fight together to prevent any foreign power to take over the world, to take us over. If, of course, this is truly what we are fighting for.
Let’s not forget, terrorists never act on their own behalf, all of them are financed by States. And so, these wars, they are always between countries, between superpowers struggling to control the world.
We don’t intend to learn a new language any time soon, for example, I don’t intend to speak Chinese within my lifetime, or to pray to Allah, or be obliged to pray at all from fears of being exterminated.
Maybe those wars are justified. Maybe it is time our leaders tell us what the time is, what is truly going on on the international scene, those foreign affairs. Why we are fighting those wars for. Perhaps we will understand, accept it, and finally see reason. Fight willingly for a just cause, for freedom and democracy, instead of blindly obeying without any kind of understanding, constantly questioning the motivations not only of our enemy, but or our own leaders as well. Have they gone mad? Well, from our point of view, yes, you have all gone mad!
Don’t shoot yourself in the foot. You should know by now, looking at the past, that wars can only be won if soldiers fully understand what is truly at stake and are fully motivated to win the war.
Explain to us how firing ablaze the whole of the Middle East through nuclear weapons will ultimately benefit us all as citizens of the world, or prevent our ultimate downfall and downturn into slavery to foreign gods and powers. And we might then follow you to glory.
The days of false flag events and lies and secrecy are over, because no one is buying it any longer. Better start writing your autobiographies a bit early, like within a month, so we can understand and support your point of view and your policies. It is, after all, the only way for you to avert a War Crime Tribunal at this time.
If we could only understand what is truly going on, we might just accept that genocides and torture were in fact justified. And that a Nuclear Third World War is essential and unavoidable. We might then die happy, knowing we did the right thing for our families and our country, and our dear flag. We’re all Patriots here.
God Save the Queen! All for the right reasons, whatever they may be.
“Without irony, this life would hardly be worth living.” RM
Roland Michel Tremblay is an author with six books published in France. He is a French-Canadian born in 1972 who has been living in London UK for 15 years. He can be contacted at this e-mail address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Toll From Deadly, Coordinated Mumbai Attacks Tops 170, Two Top Indian Officials Resign, Tensions Rise Between India and Pakistan
We host a roundtable discussion on the attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial and entertainment capital, that has left nearly 200 people dead and hundreds wounded. Indian officials claim that as few as 10 gunmen coordinated attacks that began late Wednesday night on multiple targets including a crowded railway station, two luxury hotels, a popular cafe, a Jewish center, a hospital, and a movie theater. India’s top domestic security official, the Home Minister, Shivraj Patil resigned Sunday over his failure to contain the attacks. The State Chief Minister and his deputy have also offered to quit. We speak with South Asian History professor Vijay Prashad, New York City-based activist Biju Mathew, veteran journalist and commentator Tariq Ali and award-winning activist and journalist from Mumbai Teesta Setalvad [includes rush transcript].
David Miliband: 'The Mumbai tragedy makes us more determined'
by UK Foreign Minister David Miliband, Daily Mirror, 2 December 2008
The appalling attacks in Mumbai will give new impetus to today's Nato summit... I believe this tragedy in India will reinforce our determination to tackle terrorist operations at root and prevent Afghanistan becoming an incubator for international terrorism again.
Mumbai attacks: India demands Pakistan hand over terror suspects
by Vikram Dodd, Julian Borger and Mark Tran, Guardian, 2 December 2008
But this is a critical moment for Pakistan to bring all its institutions into a common strategy to defend Pakistan. And defending Pakistan means rooting out extremism, defending Pakistani interests means cooperating fully.
[US Foreign Secretary Condoleezza Rice, Roundtable with Press, London, 1 December 2008]
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Search for Mumbai gunman's roots only deepens mystery
Search for Mumbai gunman's roots only deepens mystery http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/56808.html
By Saeed Shah | McClatchy Newspapers
FARIDKOT, Pakistan — For the past three days Pakistani intelligence agents and police have been combing this sleepy village in search of clues to the identity of the lone gunman captured in the Mumbai terror attacks, residents said on Monday.
Indian officials and news media officials identified him variously as Ajmal Amir Kamal, Azam Amir Kasav, or Azam Ameer Qasab, and Indian news media quoted police as saying that the alleged killer's home village was in Faridkot, near the city of Multan in the southern part of Pakistan's Punjab province.
Local residents, however, are bewildered and alarmed. They said there was no one of that surname in this village, and no missing resident who fit the pictures and description shown in the Indian news media.
"All the agencies have been here and the (police) special branch," said village elder Mehboob Khan Daha, referring to Pakistan's plainclothes counterterror police. "We have become very worried. What's this all about?" Agents from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) also appeared to be present on Monday, questioning locals.
Shown a picture of the alleged militant, Daha said: "That's a smart-looking boy. We don't have that sort around here."
The peasant farmers who inhabit this dusty backwater own small parcels of land and have little education. Water buffalos and goats roam down the dirt tracks of the village. Men sit around gossiping on traditional woven rope beds, placed out in the open, wearing the usual baggy shalwar kameez pajama suits, some with turbans.
Roughly built small brick homes and little mud huts dot the village, which has a population of about 3,000. It's about 33 miles east of the nearest large city, Multan, and a few miles outside the town of Kanewal.
"There are no jihadis here," Ijaz Ahmed, a 41-year-old farmer, chimed in, sitting by Daha. "I can think of maybe 10 or 20 people here who have even been as far as Multan."
The Faridkot link is a key element in the evidence cited by Indian officials that the attackers of Mumbai came from Pakistan.
The captured terror suspect was said to come from Faridkot. He was said to be 21 and to speak fluent English. A photograph of him shows a modern-looking young man swaggering in Western clothing, with an AK-47 in hand.
In Faridkot, no one appeared to be able to speak much English, and most could converse only in a dialect of the provincial language, Punjabi. None of the villagers recognized the face in the photograph, nor could they think of anyone mysteriously missing from the village.
They said the intelligence agents wanted to know if there was any presence of the radical Deobandi or Alhe Hadith religious movements in the village, to which the answer was a flat "no."
The police also came with a list of five names to probe, villagers said, including Ajmal, Amir, Kamal and Azam, all common names in Pakistan. While there are five Ajmals in the village, all were present except one who's living in the provincial capital of Lahore, and none fit the description of the militant. The only Azam in the village is a 75-year-old retired railway worker.
One of the Ajmals, a man who thought he was about 30, looked scared. He's worked in a nearby tea factory for the past 12 years, he said. The police and intelligence agencies have been to his house demanding to know his whereabouts.
"All I ever do is go to work, which is about three kilometers (two miles) away. I have never been beyond Kanewal (the closest town)," said Mohammad Ajmal. "I'm uneducated. I never went to school for even one day."
Faridkot is in a part of Punjab that's known for extremist activity, but the village showed no signs of being a hotbed of militancy. A notice on a board at the entrance to the village mosque declares that members of the fundamentalist Tablighi Jamaat "are not permitted."
To add to the confusion, there are several other places called Faridkot in the Punjab, although this village seemed to be the most likely Faridkot, because it's near Multan. There's also a well-known Faridkot in India, just across the border in the Indian half of the Punjab province.
An exasperated local police chief, Kamran Khan, who sent his men twice to Faridkot (the one outside Kanewal), told McClatchy: "Whatever we're doing to investigate, we're doing off our own initiative. No definitive information has come to us from any official channel. We're still not clear this is the right Faridkot."
Even the nearest hardline madrassa, or Islamic school, to Faridkot — the Darul Uloom at Kabirwala, a half-hour drive away — didn't appear to be a den of violent extremism that might've influenced a aspiring militant from Faridkot. This institution schooled Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, an extremist who founded one of Pakistan's most violent militant groups, Sipah-e-Sahaba. On an unannounced visit Monday, however, classrooms full of students learning the Koran and the sayings of the prophet Mohammad were all that was to be seen.
"We are praying that peace prevails between India and Pakistan," said Irshad Ahmed, the head of Darul Uloom. "It is wrong to kill innocent people. Islam doesn't allow it."
He added, however: "American bombardment also kills innocents."
MORE FROM MCCLATCHY _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
excerpt from 'Iran questions story behind Mumbai terror'
Press TV, 3 December 2008
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned the motive behind the prolonged seven-year Washington presence in Afghanistan.
"By keeping its forces in Afghanistan, the US has inflicted a heavy financial burden on its economy," the Iranian president said in a televised interview on Tuesday.
Washington and its allies seek a long-time strategy with regards to their policies in Afghanistan and Pakistan, he continued.
Seven years of occupation have not made Afghanistan any safer, as this year alone over 5,000 people have been killed and US military casualties have increased to the highest levels since the 2001 invasion.
Since the US invasion of the country, Afghanistan has also seen a phenomenal increase in the cultivation of opium, which is used to make heroin. The country now feeds the world with nearly 90 percent of its heroin.
"Their ulterior motive is to weaken India and China," suggested the president, adding that extra-regional presence can only help create a launching ground for further problems.
President Ahmadinejad said the 60-hour assault on Mumbai which killed nearly 172 people and injured almost 300 others was also orchestrated by elements outside the region.
"The main motive behind the terrorist attacks, which were orchestrated from outside the region, was to strain relations between Indian and Pakistan," he said.
I'm growing tired of all these accusations with no proof of anything. We're again being expected to swallow commentary with no proof of anything and even here people don't seem to be asking Q's
How is a Vietnamese Boat still being portrayed as a Pakistani vessel?
What of the other Vessel mentioned?
10 gunmen is this fact especially given the number of targets? Pretty thinly spread then?
Did any get away?
Is the Trawler story connected?
If so how?
Why is there only one alleged Terrorist surviver?
Why is he saying he is from LET?
Does he exist or is he a smokescreen to panic Pakistan?
Why are LET denying responsibility?
Can they prove Pakistan backs LET?
Why are British Nationals reported amonst the Terrorists?
Where is the proof?
How did they manage to secure such heavy arms? Is our Inteligence agency so bad Brits can buy heavy arms and go on a rampage with no one knowing?
Did ISI chief go to India?
What do MI6/5 and FBI/CIA know about this attack?
Why is this portrayed as a Muslim event? Do any of the pictures look like muslims?
Is this just to justify further US attacks on Pakistani soil?
What of the story a few years ago about Bush asking congress for money to set up new terror groups to hunt down Bin Laden? _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 2439 Location: One breath from Glory
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject:
Doesnt seem to smell like a false flag. Too much vagueness about who done it. Cant see how you could carry out a false flag with real gunmen rampaging through a city knowing they are probably gonna get killed.
Do we actually have evidence of the 10 gunmen in action?
If i was a terrorist i would have booked myself in at the hotel for the day of the attack and then made good my escape actually as a guest. easily switch guises in all the confusion. _________________ JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12
Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 443 Location: the beano
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: 'were killers trained by rogue special forces?'
'Were killers Trained by Rogue special Forces?' - Sunday Express nov 30th 2008.
' MI5 chiefs believe the mumbai terrorists could have been trained by an elite special forces soldier from America or Russia.
Intelligence reports suggest that the expertise of the attacks means the killers either had access to former special forces personnel or their top secret training manuals.
'we cannot rule out that the training of the killers could have been done by muslims who had served in the army or the us special forces or the russian spesnaz' said an intelligence source.
while m.i.5 tries to establish if britons were involved in the attacks, a team is working with the ministry of defence to sift through the records of all those who had served in the army and undergone specialist training........
'there are good reasons why india's counter-terrorism force should have been on red alert,' said an m.i.5 source. 'we have warned it several times'.
so in answer to disco destroyer, yes m.i.5 must have known or they couldnt have claimed to have warned the indian counter terrorism forces. one wonders if its yet again, as nafeez ahmed mentions in his books, a scenario of 'letting it run' by the intelligence agencies. and of course, one then has to question why? Also the rogue special forces angle raise a whole host of questions.
as we are in a 'war against terror', lets not forget that famous quote that in times of war, the first casualty is the truth. _________________ "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" Martin Luther king
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum