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Excellent WTC7 collapse analysis

 
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Excellent WTC7 collapse analysis Reply with quote

Don't know if this has been posted before (surely it has) but......

http://www.contrarianthinker.com/WTC7.htm

The measurements taken here from video footage show that the collapse speeds slightly exceed free-fall.....

......indicating implosion.....low presssures created by these implosions within the falling building further accelerating its collapse.

When one sees people like Chomsky and even Robert Fisk (whom it is difficult not to admire) saying they refuse to belive that 9/11 was an inside job until they have seen 'the evidence'.....

........well chaps.......is this evidence?

This film is worth spreading around IMO. It is difficult to deny this kind of analysis.
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acrobat74
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Excellent WTC7 collapse analysis Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
the collapse speeds slightly exceed free-fall.....

Surely you understand what you are describing is a physical impossibility?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Excellent WTC7 collapse analysis Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
the collapse speeds slightly exceed free-fall.....

Surely you understand what you are describing is a physical impossibility?


Some 'explosives' create particularly low pressure just after the blast. A partial vacuum between 2 floors will create a 'suction' between them that will provide an extra downwards force on the upper floor

Assuming that at this precise moment the lower floor has not yet collapsed the force pulling the upper floor down is its weight plus this extra force. Let us call it F

If the mass of the floor is m Kilograms, then:

Downwards force on the floor= its mass x its acceleration

Weight + F = m x a

A body's weight =mg where g= 9.81 m/s2, the acceleration due to gravity

Therefore, mg + F = m x a

If F is a positive force (in this context, one that acts in the same direction as the weight mg......and a partial vacuum will cause this).....then

The value of a, the downwards acceleration of the upper floor, must therefore exceed the value of g.

Sorry to get pedantic but this is the second time on this board today I feel I'm being talked down to.

If anyone experiences an impulse to post about prepositions and ends of sentences please allow the feeling to pass.

.......aside from all that, a value of slightly greater than g is what the measurements appear to clearly show.

I wouldn't bother arguing about differences from g anyway. That is missing the point. The fact is that this building collapsed (through part of its collapse provably) at more-or-less free-fall.

This cannot happen without en external energy input. There is NO WAY ON EARTH IT CAN HAPPEN.

This is provably NOT a natural collapse.

Therefore 9/11 was not what we were told it was. The official narrative is a lie.

Why 9/11 Truth are calling for a new investigation beats me. As a modus operandi for publicising the official lies and appearing 'sensible' to the wilfully ignorant, OK.......the investigation has been carried out extra-governmentally,Q.E.D.
There won't be an honest official investigation until after the battle has already been won by other means.

If you expect or even hope that it will, then you probably expected the Royal Courts of Justice (or whoever it was) to find Prince Phillip guilty of organising Diana's murder. (that's not to say he did do it by the way)


Last edited by kbo234 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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nrmis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely agree with your final 2 paragraphs dude.
So what are we to do?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only you can work out the details of that, but for me it is to keep educating the people around me (and often learning from them)......to try not to get obsessive or angry. I tend to focus on the money system. This is pushing at an open door these days. Get people to watch the " Money as Debt" cartoon on google video or, better still, "The MoneyMasters" (but at 3 hrs 40 minutes this is too much for many people).

Most people moan about ridiculous aspects of their jobs. It is useful to have studied the Foundations' think-tanks social engineering agendas in order to comment incisively at the right moment.....

....there is a massive amount of information backing up the parallel agendas that seemingly come at us from all directions. As Disraeli said, there is usually a real reason and a pretext or stated reason when any policy is delivered to the public. The real reason is usually to increase control over the masses and to reduce us to a mental disposition of passivity and helplessness.

If people raise the subject of 9/11 or challenge the 'conspiracy theory' you already know they are wilfully ignorant. I wouldn't bother too much with them. Just say the investigation has been carried out and the official narrative has been thoroughly disproven. Tell them to see for themselves. It's completely obvious. Anyone who cares about the truth will do so.

Apart from that we need to develope a confidence, a peace of mind and, importantly, a faith that all will be well on the other side of this crisis.

Any such faith will itself do more to create victory than any amount of distressed, desperate (and, particularly, violent) protest. Violence plays into their hands. The intelligence services are so short of it they have to go around murdering people on behalf of non-existant 'terrorists' themselves. We know this.

Most people on this site will probably snort at the following but here's a guy who 'gets messages from Jesus'. .....whatever you make of it, it is, in its basic advice about demeanour, very wise IMO:

The following message is an interior locution received by Ned Dougherty, who attests and represents that he continually receives messages from Jesus, Mary, and St. Michael the Archangel on or about the first day of each and every month since the inauguration date of the monthly messages on August 1st, 2005. For more information about Ned Dougherty and to view previous messages, go to: www.missionofangels.org


The Meditation Garden, St. Rosalieís Parish, Hampton Bays, NY
Message from Jesus of Nazareth

I come to you today as Jesus of Nazareth, as the Saviour of the world, and I want to convey through you the message to the people of the world that I am with all of you in these trying times for all of humanity.

As I walked the earth two-thousand years ago, I foresaw the times of the future, when mankind would fall so far from the Father in Heaven that my intercession with you, my brothers and sisters, would become of great relevance to the salvation of the world. Now we are in these times that you have heard about through the prophets of old, as well as from those of you who are now listening to the messages from Heaven that are warning you of events that are about to become a very real part of your world.

It is important to listen to these warnings, but it is more important to listen without fear, for fear is the work of the evil one, and only those who live in fear will have great difficulty surviving the troubling times that are yet to come.

Look at the future of the world with the same courage that I, as your Redeemer and Saviour, had to muster within myself to comply to the desires of My Father in Heaven, as I walked among my brothers and sisters here on Earth. Think of the mission of love that I assumed in my Incarnation among humanity, and think of the sacrifice of the Father in Heaven in choosing His only begotten Son to save the world from the terrible sins that have plagued humanity, since the Divine Connection with your Lord and Master in Heaven was lost in the Garden of Eden. Since then, all of humanity has had to attempt to regain the Divine Connection here on Earth that has eluded humanity for centuries because of all of the sin in the world.

But now it is the time, as has been predicted, for the Divine Connection with the Father in Heaven to be re-established, and you, my brothers and sisters, are a very important part of the Fatherís plan to restore the Original Order of Creation to all of humanity.

Do you not relish the victory that will be yours in doing the work of the Father and to continue my work as His Son through the power of the Holy Spirit? Rise up now in your lives and embrace the mission that you have been given at this time, for you are a very important part of the ministry of the Father to defeat the evil one and the minions of darkness, who are attempting to destroy Godís creative works in these perilous times.

But again, I must ask you to have no fear; to face the future with the courage and strength that is necessary to defeat the evil one, and he will be defeated. Of this, I want you to be certain in your knowledge that you will be victorious in your work. For the evil that was created eons of time ago by those in the heavenly realms who chose to joust with God, this evil will be buried in the bowels of the Earth during these times in the history of humanity. And you, my brothers and sisters of the End Times, have very important tasks and missions given to you by the Father in Heaven, just as I was endowed two-thousand years ago with bringing salvation to humanity.

But you see how my mission even then was thwarted by the darkness of the evil one? Now you have been contending in this world with the very evil that was responsible for the Crucifixion of the Son of Man. It is the same evil that is ruling the secular world in these times, but only for a short period of time, for the Father in Heaven has great mercy for His children and He has protected you in ways that you do not yet know.

But much of the work of the Father in Heaven and of His Son has been implemented for many centuries leading to this time for humanity, when much of the planning of the Father in Heaven is about to confront head-on the evil that has permeated the world in your times.

Now you must be vigilant, courageous, and prayerful. You must make sacrifices in your personal and materialistic world to prepare for my Second Coming to humanity, when I will manifest among you in ways that you do not yet recognize. The surprise for humanity will be quick and sudden, and I will come to you in ways that even the most ancient of prophets could not comprehend.

I ask that you do not anticipate my return in a certain way or at a certain time, but only know that you are to prepare yourselves now, individually and collectively, as members of My Church, so that you will become part of the protected brothers and sisters during the troubling times ahead.

This is a time for you to make great sacrifices, to fast, and to pray for the future of the world. You must begin to recognize more fully the power of your prayers in restoring the Light of the Father to all of humanity. Following the darkness, the great Light of Love will appear in ways that are inconceivable, even unimaginable to humanity at this point in time, but the Light of Love will come soon. The time, as specific to a time and a date, is not for you to know now.

What is important for you to know is to BE PREPARED. For I, as the Lord and Saviour and Redeemer of the world, will return most fully to humanity to bring about a New Heaven and a New Earth. The darkness will be gone and a New Era will dawn for all of humanity. You have my promise, my brothers and sisters; the future that I describe is near.

Have patience with me, but most of all have patience with yourselves, for great patience will help you to preserve the integrity of your inner peace of mind and the serenity within your souls that will be most beneficial for you to accept the blessings and graces that will be bestowed upon all of you, my brothers and sisters, in these times.

Again, I must ask you to prepare yourselves now for great things to happen for humanity. Do not focus on the darkness but recognize that is does exist now, but just for a little while longer. Focus your prayerful intentions on the Light of Love that will dawn for all of humanity ushering in the Era of Peace.

I come to you today with this message of Love from the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, just as I physically came to humanity in the Incarnation of the Son of Man two-thousand years ago. Now in these times, however, I will be consciously a part of all of you in preparing for a glorious future for humanity through the eyes of the Father in Heaven, as well as through the intercession of His Son, who will be among you in a very powerful way, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, which you will recognize is also working within you in a very powerful way.

For those of you who recognize the presence of your Creator in your lives, the journey ahead will be exciting for you. Practice then to welcome the Holy Spirit into your lives more fully and prepare for the times ahead.

I come to you today as Jesus of Nazareth, filled to overflowing with the same Love of God that I brought to the Earth two-thousand years ago. Take my Love and accept me into your lives now, for the journey ahead will be rewarding for you here on Earth, as well as in the Heavenly Kingdom for all eternity.

From Jesus of Nazareth
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acrobat74
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol a bit touchy are we kbo?

You are talking about an additional force...
Quote:
A partial vacuum between 2 floors will create a 'suction' between them that will provide an extra downwards force on the upper floor

...in which case acceleration faster than g is possible (my objection referred to free fall, without any outside forces apart from gravity).

Addition (07/03):
obviously, the scenario above, where a theoretical additional 'suction' force causes 'faster than g' acceleration, could only have taken place momentarily, i.e. for minute snapshots of time. It is simply not possible that the entire collapse occurred at 'faster than g' acceleration. This is pure misinfo.


However, I wouldn't bring this up, for two reasons:

1. The proper expression about the speed of collapse is 'very near free-fall speed'.

See published peer-reviewed paper by Jones et al here:

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCIEJ/2008/00000002/000 00001/35TOCIEJ.SGM

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS
We have enumerated fourteen areas where we are in
agreement with FEMA and NIST in their investigations of
the tragic and shocking destruction of the World Trade Center.
We agree that the Towers fell at near free-fall speed and
that is an important starting point.


2. Folks seem to be having issues grasping what the near free-fall speed collapse means...imagine starting to talk about 'additional suction' and 'faster than g acceleration'. Don't go there.

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Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/


Last edited by acrobat74 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
Lol a bit touchy are we kbo?


14 years old are we?....thought so.

acrobat74 wrote:

You are talking about an additional force...


Blimey, thanks for that.


acrobat74 wrote:

(my objection referred to free fall, without any outside forces apart from gravity).


Your objection referred to your misunderstanding of the original post.

acrobat74 wrote:

2. Folks seem to be having issues grasping what the near free-fall speed collapse means...imagine starting to talk about 'additional suction' and 'faster than g acceleration'. Don't go there.


Indeed.
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nrmis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Errr, thanks?
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nrmis wrote:
Errr, thanks?


Amusing reply nrmis. First in a while, thank God (oops, I've violated the zeitgeist again......there is a political correctness in these parts that condemns such loose talk).

A thought occurs considering the conflict and disagreements on this board.

9/11 truthers cannot really unite just because we agree about problems. We can only unite about solutions......and even that's a maybe.
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Excellent WTC7 collapse analysis Reply with quote

Yes, It certainly is a ridiculous statement.
Hence this is moving to controversies.
acrobat74 wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
the collapse speeds slightly exceed free-fall.....

Surely you understand what you are describing is a physical impossibility?

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nrmis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
9/11 truthers cannot really unite just because we agree about problems. We can only unite about solutions......and even that's a maybe


Yes, good point. And I think its a big maybe.
People who have seen the truth are angry and horrified. And they want peace.
I think by definition that people who are truly hurting by what has happened, are pacifists.
That does not mean that if I got close enough to someone who I knew was responsible for these atrocities and the subsequent cover up, that they would be safe, far from it in fact.
Am I not a pacifist now?
In one of your earlier posts kbo, you said not to get angry or obsessive and I agree that is probably good advice if staying healthy is your priority.
But being angry and obsessive about these atrocities is exactly what makes you human and unlike these animals that perpertrated them.
I think we can unite about solutions. But the only solutions we seem to have are 'slowly educate more people about the truth'.
I'll give you a personal example of why I think this won't work on its own.... actually I'll come back to that if you dont mind Smile
Short example: One big bang on tv THAT EVERYBODY EXPERIENCES TOGETHER. You are under attack. It's the muslim's. They hate your freedoms.
Game over.
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acrobat74
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looked at the link kbo provided...controversies is a good place for this thread...bold red fonts and all Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freefall speed in a partial vacuum cant be faster than in air
though freefall in a total vacuum is Confused
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chek
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be wary of sensational claims made using such a poor quality video.

The west penthouse's height is reduced to 5 pixels (or possibly 6, although that one could well be an artificial mpeg edge enhancement artefact). With no reliable dimensions readily available, a rough guess is that one pixel could represent anywhere between 3 and 5 feet. That's not anywhere near accurate enough in my opinion

Using a high enough definition video and getting those dimensions are the main problems I have with David Chandler's similar analysis.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I get kicked off the forum again I just want to say I made an error in calibration for this analysis. The error was in missing from the scaling the small sliver of WTC7 showing on the sunny side - very faint it is but it is there. If you correct the curve by the % error you get true free-fall spped, not faster than.

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