Gay marriage, gay rights government and church

[TonyGosling]

Is marriage the union of a man and a woman - or a woman and a woman and a man and a man as well?

Few people object to gay couples having a 'civil partnership'. A public ceremonial demonstration of their private commitment to each other.
But is it appropriate, and should it be legal, for gay couples to go through a Christian marriage ceremony and have that partnership 'blessed' by God?

One can be in favour of gay rights but against gay marriage.


Christian charity worker suspended over opposition to gay marriage ...or...
Christian charity worker suspended over opposition to gay rights
April 12, 2009
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6081782.ece

past articles
TIME - Is Same-Sex Marriage Inevitable?
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=9501

[Dogsmilk]

You'd think God would have far more important things to worry about than whether gay people are getting married. Who cares?
Besides, if He was that that arsed He wouldn't have deemed fit to make a proportion of he population gay throughout history but expect only heterosexual people to join in union in His sight. That would imply He likes messing with people's heads.
On top of that, an awful lot of contemporary marriages are secular anyway. The last three marriages I've attended (hetero) have been totally devoid of any religious content.

[TonyGosling]

[Dogsmilk]

What point? Marriage becoming more secular has nothing whatsoever to do with whether gay people are getting married or not.
It was increasingly secular way before any gay marriage stuff kicked off and I think it would be hard to find a heterosexual couple who were in any way put off a church wedding by gays being able to tie the knot.
Christian belief has receded in this country. It's as simple as that. Particularly CofE type traditional Christianity - as I understand it, it's those Evangelical guys that are doing best right now.

Which kinda leads me to something else I don't understand. I don't know how many gay people tend to want a Christian flavour to their weddings, but if gay people have secular or even Hindu weddings or something, what business is it of Christians? If you have a secular wedding it's essentially an expression of love with legal implications. The couple could be practicing Satanists and still have a secular wedding if they so wished. Christians don't have the monopoly on weddings and what goes on with secular, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, Muslim, Pagan (though they're not recognised by law I believe), Zoroastrian whatever weddings is none of their business. So why is what gay people do any of their business? Unless they have some kind of problem with gay Christian weddings. Which, if anything, would up the number of Christian weddings going on.
Why do Christians have any right to say who's allowed to get married and who isn't? They don't own the concept.

Mind you, as far as I'm concerned why bother? I've been with my good lady 15 years - what do we need to get married for?

[TonyGosling]

I mean, gosh, it quite clearly does.
It is only because marriage has become so secularised that gay couples might think it possible for their relationship to be blessed by God.
Whatever god is doing the blessing it's clearly not the God of the Bible.
Wheras even 100 years ago gay relationships were illegal... now it appears you can be sacked for expressing the view that God cannot bless gay partnerships.
Or make yourself unemployable for ever.

[Dogsmilk]

[TonyGosling]

It's an opinion, it seems, that some people want to kill off.
Do you think that's acceptable?
Seems to me like someone's having a laugh in bad taste in trying to tell Christians like me what to believe.

If I had beliefs and could not express them I would become mentally ill and I find that imposition offensive.

Someone will always say they are offended by the beliefs of others, particularly if they have a problem they're not prepared to deal with.

Anyway freedom of expression is enhrined in international law and those who want to stop it as a clear mark of oppression.

[TonyGosling]

Nice to see Stephen Fry agreeing with me and millions of other Christians here. Solidarity mate!

[fish5133]

Wait for the lightning bolt!

[Truthout]

[Truthout]

[paul wright]

I think he said the financial corruption is insignificant compared to the warmongering and mass killings founded on lies from a similar source
He also has a profound dislike of media hacks
He ain't all bad

[truthseeker john]

[TmcMistress]

I would add something here, but dogsmilk covered the proper arguments pretty well already.

[eogz]

I completely agree with the genius who said....

"Gay Marriage, I completely support it. Why shouldn't gay people have just as much right to be as miserable as straight people."

Nice.....

Freedom of speech and expressing ones opinion on the other hand is another matter altogether.

[TonyGosling]

Marriage is not the joining of two sticks it's the joining of two people in a God-blessed partnership.
Thankfully most people clearly see that is common sense.
Trying to change the meaning of the word is only going to work for dumbed down people.
As the fundamental basis of 'the family' as an autonomous social unit it's one of the key reserves of culture and therefore being atacked by the New World Order.

Gay couples can't marry because, while gay individuals can be, their gay 'partnership' can't be blessed by God.

[fish5133]

TG wrote

[Truthseeker_34]

In my opinion, the whole marriage the union of a man and a man, woman and a woman, and the promotion of homosexuality within schools etc. This is working towards the UN Agenda 21 and other publications on depopulations.

Of course this would make sense as homosexuals can't reproduce. And the labeling of homosexuals as "gay" is a misnomer as this is not meaning of being "gay". And that the homosexuals even label themselves and believe that "gay" refers to anyone thats a homosexual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay
Certainly don't take the information present within wikipedia as gospel

Peace

Truthseeker_34


"They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority." Gerald Massey
________________________

http://thewakeupcall.org.uk/

[TonyGosling]

amazing interview about infiltration of London mosque by Channel 4 undercover reporter with George Galloway

Hilarious George Galloway Interview

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anq7LjMVQwo

[Disco_Destroyer]

[conspiracy analyst]

[TonyGosling]

Government can't rewrite nature and allow gays to wed - O'Brien
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Government-can39t-rewrite-nature-and .6832538.jp
Keith O'Brien said any attempt to redefine marriage would be ‘strenuously opposed'. Picture: Phil Wilkinson
Published Date: 08 September 2011 - By Andrew Whitaker
The leader of Scotland's Catholic community has warned that moves by MSPs to legalise gay marriage will be "strenuously opposed" by the Church.
Cardinal Keith O'Brien, in a strongly worded homily delivered at a mass for politicians in Edinburgh last night, claimed that allowing gay people to wed through a civil or religious ceremonies would be a "direct attack" on the institution of marriage.
However, the intervention sparked criticism from MSPs, with the openly gay leader of the Scottish Greens, Patrick Harvie, attacking the Cardinal's remarks as "absurd" and as an attempt to "suppress" the freedom of gays, lesbians and bisexuals.
The row came after the SNP government launched a 14-week consultation on allowing gay marriage - a change to the law that currently allows same-sex couples to enter a civil partnership, but bans the ceremony from church or other religious premises.
However, Cardinal O'Brien suggested that supporters of gay marriage wanted to "rewrite human nature" as he appealed to MSPs to oppose the proposed reform.
He said: "The Church esteems the institution of marriage as the most stable building block upon which any family can rest.
"The view of the Church is clear, no government can rewrite human nature; the family and marriage existed before the State and are built on the union between a man and woman.
"Any attempt to redefine marriage is a direct attack on a foundational building block of society and will be strenuously opposed."
There was also a sharply worded statement issued by the Bishops' Conference of Scotland yesterday, which suggested that the Scottish Government's consultation was "an exercise for justifying the campaign demands" of the "vociferous" gay rights lobby.

But Green MSP Mr Harvie attacked the Catholic Church's stance on gay rights and highlighted a Scottish Social Attitudes survey which revealed 60 per cent believe same-sex couples should have the right to marry.
"It's absurd to suggest that one marriage can undermine other marriages," he said.
"Just as non-Catholics respect Catholic marriages, so it's time for the Cardinal to start respecting the right of every adult to love who they please.
"The Cardinal should also remember that he doesn't speak for all people of faith, or even all Christians.
"There are many faith groups who want to conduct same-sex marriages for their members, and the Catholic Church seems determined to try and suppress their freedom to do so."
SNP MSP John Mason, who faced criticism for lodging a parliamentary motion that said no-one should be "forced" to approve of same-sex marriage, said he wanted "to encourage churches" to get involved in the debate about the proposals..........
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Government-can39t-rewrite-nature-and .6832538.jp

[TonyGosling]

rolling apostasy - amazing the CofE has still not been privatised - surely then they'd make gay marriage in churches legal

Church of England should 'rejoice' over gay marriage, Bishops say
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9218079/Church-of-England-sho uld-rejoice-over-gay-marriage-Bishops-say.html
The Church of England should “rejoice” at the prospect of marriage between homosexual couples rather than fear it, senior bishops and clergy have said.
Signatories of the letter to The Times (note they still consider this revolting Murdoch rag as the paper of record), include Dr Jeffrey John, the openly homosexual Dean of St Albans Canon Giles Goddard, chairman of the progressive Anglican group Inclusive Church, five former bishops and the serving Deans of Portsmouth, Norwich and Guildford.
On Friday night church sources dismissed the names as “not surprising”, pointing that none of the signatories were “senior serving bishops”.
In their letter, the group said they welcomed current moves by the Synod’s House of Bishops to “consider again its view of civil partnerships and human sexuality”.
“We hope this will lead to a recognition of God’s grace at work in same-sex partnerships and call on the Church to engage in theological discussion and prayerful reflection on the nature of marriage,” they added.