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Nick Kollerstrom banned
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Nick Kollerstrom banned Reply with quote

I have just received this email from my good friend Nick Kollerstrom. He is upset about what he considers to be the unfair way he has been banned from this forum and the untruthful comments he has had to endure.
Nick, in my opinion, is as honest as the day is long and almost obsessively concerned with rooting out the truth of any serious and controversial matter.

He happens to believe that there were no gas extermination chambers using Zyklon gas pellets (cyanide) in Auschwitz, particularly, nor elsewhere (I believe). I have heard him describe the scientific evidence for this and, I have to admit, was pretty convinced by what he had to say, though I have not read all the source material.

It is interesting that this (admittedly, in our culture) outrageous challenge to an official version of events is met not with counter-research that discredits the original information, but by crude abuse and vitriolic allegations of a personal nature (Nazi-apologist, and so on) against Nick himself. He has lost his job and been made virtually unemployable as a result of making his 'gas-chamber' statements.

Of two things I am certain. Nick Kollerstrom did not say what he said out of any pre-existing malice nor was his motive to injure or increase the suffering of surviving inmates, Jewish people or any others.

He said it because he believes it to be true.


.......and let us remember (and I am saying this, not Nick) that it is the industrialised extermination aspect of 'the holocaust' that makes it unique. Genocide has been common enough throughout history but such corporate/state slaughterhouses for humans, if they existed, have never been seen before or since.

Then look at what this unique event has empowered over our lifetimes......


.......not a new invigorated and determined global drive for establishing peace and universal human rights....

NO, NOT THAT!

......it has been used for facilitating the dispossession of another entirely innocent people. It has been used to silence opposition by a deep guilt while new wars of aggression are launched. It has been used as a platform for vile aggression against Palestinians in Israel. It has been used to drain the treasuries of western powers and feed back monies to control political systems. It is also the great inhibitor that prevents ordinary people from speaking up against Zionist crimes and interests and, it should be said, the massively disproportionate wealth and influence of Jews in the world today.

Can anybody on this forum seriously try and deny a single one of the above statements?

This gas-chamber thing is NOT....TODAY......a morally one-sided issue.

I hope I have not muddied the water regarding Nick's position by introducing my own insistence that these are serious issues from which no responsible person should feel obliged to avert their gaze and with which no one should be afraid to engage.

Here is Nick's letter:

Ta for asking, in response to TG's diabolical remarks about me.
.
1. In reply to Tony's query to me (last year), I quoted the eminent US forensic pathologist Charles Larsen who was sent to the German camps in 1945 by the US army to see what had caused the huge mortality, and his verdict was, famine and epidemics, mainly typhus. He could not diagnose any deaths by cyanide gassing. Tony always found something terrible about my saying that camp inmates had died from famine, I never discovered what.

2. I don't believe I said no prisoners were ever gassed, (or if I ever did it was most foolish) - because my researches have only concerned cyanide gassing. I've made no comment on diesel or carbon monoxide gassing. Blairwatch greatly censored and deleted what I wrote there, that's all I can tell you.
(Do by all means quote me as saying, that in my belief mass human cyanide gas chambers have never existed in this world. The delousing gas-chambers in the german camps using Zyklon were hygenic. The evidence for this is chemical, concerning where the Zyklon was used. This does shock people, I admit. I have never tried to promote this in the 911 movement, but I have been thrown out of it because people discovered that this was my view.)

3. TG banned me because of a lie he had made up, that I had 'insulted' his friend Fran. She had announced a 9/11 meeting, at which 'Holocaust revisionists were not welcome' and I had remonstrated against this. There was nothing personal against her (I always liked her). Now you tell me, TG has dreamed up the idea of 'hate posts' whereby he decided to ban me! Usually he is an honest fellow.

He is the fellow who should be excluded, for writing such a vile hate-post!

By all means post this reply anywhere, if you wish. (Unlike TG, I do not have any books on my shelf about WW2, Hitler, the Jews, the Nazis - that stuff just does not interest me. Never has done)

Hope this is of interest. My new www.terroronthetube.com will soon be ready. Nick K.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh, right on cue....posted the above then looked at Gilad Atzmon's latest article.

Thank you Gilad. What a great man you are.

Truth, History and Integrity by Gilad Atzmon

Saturday, March 13, 2010 at 2:02PM


Back in 2007 the notorious American Jewish right-wing organization, the ADL (Anti-Defamation League) announced that it recognised the events in which an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were massacred as "genocide." The ADL's national director, Abraham Foxman, insisted that he made the decision after discussing the matter with ‘historians’. For some reason he failed to mention who the historians were, nor did he refer to their credibility or field of scholarship. However, Foxman also consulted with one holocaust survivor who supported the decision. It was Elie Wiesel, not known for being a leading world expert on the Armenian ordeal.

The idea of a Zionist organization being genuinely concerned, or even slightly moved, by other people’s suffering could truly be a monumental transforming moment in Jewish history. However, this week we learned that the ADL is once again engaged in the dilemma of Armenian suffering. It is not convinced anymore that the Armenians suffered that much. It is now lobbying the American congress not to recognize the killings of Armenians as ‘genocide. This week saw the ADL “speaking out against Congressional acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide, and is, instead, advocating Turkey’s call for a historical commission to study the events.”

How is it that an event that took place a century ago is causing such a furor? One day it is generally classified as ‘genocide’, the next, it is demoted to an ordinary instance of one man killing another. Was it an ‘historical document’ that, out of nowhere, popped out on Abe Foxman’s desk? Are there some new factual revelations that led to such a dramatic historical shift? l don’t think so.

The ADL’s behaviour is a glimpse into the notion of Jewish history and the Jewish understanding of the past. For the nationalist and political Jew, history is a pragmatic tale, it is an elastic account. It is foreign to any scientific or academic method. Jewish history transcends itself beyond factuality, truthfulness or correspondence rules with any given vision of reality. It also repels integrity or ethics. It by far prefers total submission, instead of creative and critical thinking. Jewish history is a phantasmic tale that is there to make the Jews happy and the Goyim behave themselves. It is there to serve the interests of one tribe and that tribe only. In practice, from a Jewish perspective, the decision whether there was an Armenian genocide or not is subject to Jewish interests: is it good for the Jews or is it good for Israel.

Interestingly enough, history is not a particularly ‘Jewish thing’. It is an established fact that not a single Jewish historical text has been written between the 1st century (Josephus Flavius) and early 19th century (Isaak Markus Jost). For almost 2 thousand years Jews were not interested in their own or anyone else’s past, at least not enough to chronicle it. As a matter of convenience, an adequate scrutiny of the past was never a primary concern within the Rabbinical tradition. One of the reasons is probably that there was no need for such a methodical effort. For the Jew who lived during ancient times and the Middle Ages, there was enough in the Bible to answer the most relevant questions to do with day-to-day life, Jewish meaning and fate. As Israeli historian Shlomo Sand puts it, “a secular chronological time was foreign to the ‘Diaspora time’ that was shaped by the anticipation for the coming of the Messiah.”

However, in the mid 19th century, in the light of secularisation, urbanisation, emancipation and due to the decreasing authority of the Rabbinical leaders, an emerging need of an alternative cause rose amongst the awakening European Jews. All of a sudden, the emancipated Jew had to decide who he was and where he came from. He also started to speculate what his role might be within the rapidly opening Western society.

This is where Jewish history in its modern form was invented. This is also where Judaism was transformed from a world religion into a ‘land registry’ with some clearly devastating racially orientated and expansionist implications. As we know, Shlomo Sand’s account of the ‘Jewish Nation’ as a fictional invention is yet to be challenged academically. However, the dismissal of factuality or commitment to truthfulness is actually symptomatic of any form of contemporary Jewish collective ideology and identity politics. The ADL’s treatment of the Armenian topic is just one example. The Zionist’s dismissal of a Palestinian past and heritage is just another example. But in fact any Jewish collective vision of the past is inherently Judeo-centric and oblivious to any academic or scientific procedure.

When I was Young

When I was young and naïve I regarded history as a serious academic matter. As I understood it, history had something to do with truth seeking, documents, chronology and facts. I was convinced that history aimed to convey a sensible account of the past based on methodical research. I also believed that it was premised on the assumption that understanding the past may throw some light over our present and even help us to shape a prospect of a better future. I grew up in the Jewish state and it took me quite a while to understand that the Jewish historical narrative is very different. In the Jewish intellectual ghetto, one decides what the future ought to be, then one constructs ‘a past’ accordingly. Interestingly enough, this exact method is also prevalent amongst Marxists. They shape the past so it fits nicely into their vision of the future. As the old Russian joke says, “when the facts do not conform with the Marxist ideology, the Communist social scientists amend the facts (rather than revise the theory)”.

When I was young, I didn’t think that history was a matter of political decisions or agreements between a rabid Zionist lobby and its favorite holocaust survivor. I regarded historians as scholars who engaged in adequate research following some strict procedures. When I was young I even considered becoming an historian.

When I was young and naive I was also somehow convinced that what they told us about our ‘collective’ Jewish past really happened. I believed it all, the Kingdom of David, Massada, and then the Holocaust: the soap, the lampshade*, the death march, the six million.

As it happened, it took me many years to understand that the Holocaust, the core belief of the contemporary Jewish faith, was not at all an historical narrative for historical narratives do not need the protection of the law and politicians. It took me years to grasp that my great-grandmother wasn’t made into a ‘soap’ or a ‘lampshade’*. She probably perished out of exhaustion, typhus or maybe even by mass shooting. This was indeed bad and tragic enough, however not that different from the fate of many millions of Ukrainians who learned what communism meant for real. “Some of the worst mass murderers in history were Jews” writes Zionist Sever Plocker on the Israeli Ynet disclosing the Holodomor and Jewish involvement in this colossal crime, probably the greatest crime of the 20th century. The fate of my great-grandmother was not any different from hundreds of thousands of German civilians who died in an orchestrated indiscriminate bombing, because they were Germans. Similarly, people in Hiroshima died just because they were Japanese. 1 million Vietnamese died just because they were Vietnamese and 1.3 million Iraqis died because they were Iraqis. In short the tragic circumstances of my great grandmother wasn’t that special after all.

It Doesn’t make sense

It took me years to accept that the Holocaust narrative, in its current form, doesn’t make any historical sense. Here is just one little anecdote to elaborate on:

If, for instance, the Nazis wanted the Jews out of their Reich (Judenrein - free of Jews), or even dead, as the Zionist narrative insists, how come they marched hundreds of thousands of them back into the Reich at the end of the war? I have been concerned with this simple question for more than a while. I eventually launched into an historical research of the topic and happened to learn from Israeli holocaust historian professor Israel Gutman that Jewish prisoners actually joined the march voluntarily. Here is a testimony taken from Gutman’s book

"One of my friends and relatives in the camp came to me on the night of the evacuation and offered a common hiding place somewhere on the way from the camp to the factory. …The intention was to leave the camp with one of the convoys and to escape near the gate, using the darkness we thought to go a little far from the camp. The temptation was very strong. And yet, after I considered it all I then decided to join (the march) with all the other inmates and to share their fate " (Israel Gutman [editor], People and Ashes: Book Auschwitz - Birkenau, Merhavia 1957).

I am left puzzled here, if the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau, why would the Jewish prisoners join them at the end of the war? Why didn’t the Jews wait for their Red liberators?

I think that 65 years after the liberation of Auschwitz, we must be entitled to start to ask the necessary questions. We should ask for some conclusive historical evidence and arguments rather than follow a religious narrative that is sustained by political pressure and laws.
We should strip the holocaust of its Judeo-centric exceptional status and treat it as an historical chapter that belongs to a certain time and place

65 years after the liberation of Auschwitz we should reclaim our history and ask why? Why were the Jews hated? Why did European people stand up against their next door neighbours? Why are the Jews hated in the Middle East, surely they had a chance to open a new page in their troubled history? If they genuinely planned to do so, as the early Zionists claimed, why did they fail? Why did America tighten its immigration laws amid the growing danger to European Jews? We should also ask for what purpose do the holocaust denial laws serve? What is the holocaust religion there to conceal? As long as we fail to ask questions, we will be subjected to Zionists and their Neocons agents’ plots. We will continue killing in the name of Jewish suffering. We will maintain our complicity in Western imperialist crimes against humanity.

As devastating as it may be, at a certain moment in time, a horrible chapter was given an exceptionally meta-historical status. Its ‘factuality’ was sealed by draconian laws and its reasoning was secured by social and political settings. The Holocaust became the new Western religion. Unfortunately, it is the most sinister religion known to man. It is a license to kill, to flatten, no nuke, to wipe, to rape, to loot and to ethnically cleanse. It made vengeance and revenge into a Western value. However, far more concerning is the fact that it robs humanity of its heritage, it is there to stop us from looking into our past with dignity. Holocaust religion robs humanity of its humanism. For the sake of peace and future generations, the holocaust must be stripped of its exceptional status immediately. It must be subjected to thorough historical scrutiny. Truth and truth seeking is an elementary human experience. It must prevail.





*During WWII and after it was widely believed that soaps and lampshades were being mass produced from the bodies of Jewish victims. In recent years the Israeli Holocaust museum admitted that there was no truth in any of those accusations.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not a Nazi apologist site KBO
Nick made flippant and deeply racist comments at Blair Watch and elsewhere... folowed by personal attacks here on people who quite sensibly expressed an unwillingness to work closely with him which I have removed from the public forum.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't understand why you call NK a 'Nazi apologist' or is that me you are referring to now?

Would you call Gilad Atzmon, whose great-grandmother died in the camps, a Nazi apologist?

Can you not accept that there are people who honestly believe there are questions to be asked and issues that should be openly debated regarding the holocaust? Issues that play themselves out very destructively in our lives today.

THIS IS A 9/11 FORUM FOR GOD'S SAKE!!

If it is not obvious to you as the effective owner of this site that the understanding and broadcasting of historical truth is of absolute importance......

......then WHO else on this earth might be expected to realise that it is an important issue?

If it is TABOO to discuss a subject (like '9/11', like 'the holocaust' or like the bankers' money creation scam) would we not be sensible to assume that some entity of considerable power (a power exceeding that of our elected officials) has been lying to us and that the taboo exists in the public domain to prevent us from uncovering these lies?

Is it not likely that all these issues represent visceral threats to the oligarchs' golden goose?

Is not the holocaust narrative itself a golden goose? Who has been getting the endless billions extorted via use of this 'holocaust' weapon? Not holocaust survivors, that is for sure. They have received a pittance.

I'm baffled, Tony.

To me this is a no-brainer.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who denies the holocaust ever happened is either unaware of the truth or a fascist.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyone who denies the holocaust ever happened is either unaware of the truth or a fascist.

Well OK satya, do you know of anybody who denies the holocaust?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

satya wrote:
Anyone who denies the holocaust ever happened is either unaware of the truth or a fascist.


What about the ones that speak out about the Palestinian Holocaust?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco_Destroyer wrote:
satya wrote:
Anyone who denies the holocaust ever happened is either unaware of the truth or a fascist.


What about the ones that speak out about the Palestinian Holocaust?

The current Shoah against the Palestinians committed by Israel is of far more pertinence than the historical holocaust at the present time
The collusion of Zionists in the slaughter of jews under Nazism is worthy of note

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco_Destroyer wrote:
What about the ones that speak out about the Palestinian Holocaust?


current or history? If its current i could comment on that but have not read into anything more than that. My comment related to the article and the third reich

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please explain very clearly in what way the article "denies the holocaust".
Please write in full sentences and make your case thoroughly with references that you regard as evidence.

....rather than indulge in the usual cowardly, witless, treacherous name-calling. In case you haven't noticed, the 'holocaust' has cost millions of lives since the end of WW2 and been the springboard and the cover for many other great crimes........crimes that are ongoing and could, quite conceivably, embroil us all in a new World War that could destroy the entire earth.

Yes. The holocaust was a great crime.

Unfortunately, this crime remains 'live' and continues to kill.

Recognising the malign effects of its reverberations we must demand an honest investigation into the whole thing. As Atzmon says, "Historical truth does not need the proptection of laws and politicians."

I can tell you this, if some historical horror hasd resulted in deaths of my ancestors I would want to ensure that such horrors were not repeated. I would spit on the idea that I, or others like me could be financially compensated for the loss of relatives. This is too serious an issue to be 'bought off'. I would go deep into my soul and try to understand and correct the spiritual sin that led to such evils. What was wrong with these Germans? Why did they hate us?
resolution to such questions will always ultimately be spiritual.

A return to 'Logos'.....truth, meaning, to love.....all of which are the source of creation. ....the knowable truth to which we must all eventually conform.

The holocaust religion is an evil thing. Perhaps as bad as the crime itself.

* By the way, I believe my own ancestors did experience something similar, in scale as well as in horror. It was called the 'Irish famine'.
How many Irish use it as a justification for their own hate crimes today?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said kbo!!

Enjoy Cool

Damien Dempsey "colony"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKp5v0B3IwE


Link

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, well said Kev.

and thanks for the song DD, that was quite affecting or maybe it's just me

Thumbs Up

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick Kollerstrom is a superficially 'nice man' and I would not characterise him as a 'Holocaust Denier' until one realises he is most certainly a Nazi apologist with strong connections to Theosophy.

He has also attacked a London activist for correctly questioning the wisdom of allowing Nick to continue as part of the London meetings.

Quite naturally all serious Muslim campaigners will have NOTHING to do with Nick K because of the idiotic things he believes and has said on the public record.

Prince Charles is another Nazi apologist who has done all he can to rehablitate the evil name of Hitler's Architecht Albert Speer.

This is either idiotic or deliberate disruptive behaviour.

Anyone who denies the holocaust ever happened is either unaware of the truth or a fascist.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do not have any books on my shelf about WW2, Hitler, the Jews, the Nazis


Says it all really.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Nick Kollerstrom is a superficially 'nice man' and I would not characterise him as a 'Holocaust Denier' until one realises he is most certainly a Nazi apologist with strong connections to Theosophy.



What makes a 'Nazi apologist'?

Don't you think it is about time you abandoned the comfortable black-and-white comic book narrative that insists that Nazis were somehow 'different'......'inhuman'......'uniquely evil'.

In my book just about all military actions are evil. They are rarely, if ever, motivated by humanitarian concerns. Few indeed are the military interventions devoid of the pursuance of some strategic interest.

As British people we should hesitate before hopping on to any high moral ground. should we not be aware that the glorious 'Union Jack' was perceived by those on the wrong end of our attentions as a 'butcher's apron'.

The Nazis kicked the bankers out and built up their shattered country using money they had created themselves.

Are we allowed to recognise any good in this action?

Is it possible that it is this action that is largely responsible for their exalted position in our collective demonology?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One side of the story (of the many)



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kevin
You seem to be confusing loads of issues

Just because the British Empire committed lots of atrocities as wicked as the nazi atrocities

Just because the international banking system is at the heart of keeping humanity in debt servitude

Just because the Nazis were not uniquely evil

Just because apologists for the state crimes of Israel label their critics as anti-Semitic and ‘holocaust deniers’ at every opportunity

Just because the Nazis built some good motorways and Hitler was a vegetarian

Just because there are elements of the holocaust that are unknown and subject to debate

Just because Nick did not intentionally set out to offend

Does not change the fact that Nick produced some extremely piss poor ‘research’ which essentially concluded that the camps were effectively glorified holiday camps complete with leisure swimming pools and art classes for the ‘inmates’ and that many found these views deeply offensive.

Everything else flowed from there
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does not change the fact that Nick produced some extremely piss poor ‘research’ which essentially concluded that the camps were effectively glorified holiday camps complete with leisure swimming pools and art classes for the ‘inmates’ and that many found these views deeply offensive.


Where can we find what he has said, so he's not misquoted? And note Norman G. Finkelstein calls them work camps (Re: press tv)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been discussed to death here. If you search 'nick' you will find the relevant threads which in turn relate to articles he posted on CODOH

http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1TSEACENUK367&q=c odoh+kollerstrom&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&oq=
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
This has been discussed to death here. If you search 'nick' you will find the relevant threads which in turn relate to articles he posted on CODOH

http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1TSEACENUK367&q=c odoh+kollerstrom&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&oq=


I've had a look through.

astro3 wrote:
Quote:
No, of course I never said or wrote that Auschwitz was ‘like a holiday camp’! There are powerful liars and character-assassins at work here - its what the media like. That statement went all round the British media, so my friends were talking about it in shocked, hushed tones and half of them wouldn't speak to me anymore.


So is there any other info on this?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian,

It was not the fact that Nick referred to the swimming pool and theatre and hygenic gas chambers that got him in trouble, it was the fact that he questioned the human slaughterhouses (gas chamber) element of the widely circulated 'holocaust' narrative.

He referred to research of Rudolf and Leucter that has been ridiculed and abused but neither aired, nor seriously inspected nor openly challenged in the public domain.

I accept that it is offense to belittle the suffering of others, but it is also offensive that the historical facts of these matters cannot be openly investigated and discussed. It is offensive that people are jailed for speaking what they believe to be the truth. It is offensive that peoples' livelihoods are taken from them for blaspheming against what ihas become more a religion than a real historical event.
It is also grossly offensive that untold billions of dollars have been leveraged out of innocent peoples by people who use these monies to subvert and corrupt our society and our political processes. It is offensive that wars of aggression have been started using the cover of this event...

...and there is a lot more besides that is offensive about it.


It frankly puzzles me that people are so ready to take offense at the one issue and do all they can to damage Nick Kollerstrom on the basis of it but seem so casually unconcerned about the other issues, the connection between the two and the bad faith of so many who proselytise and profit from this tall story.

there was a time when to question the lampshades and soap issue was blasphemy.

Time will change many more of the 'holocaust' perceptions, no doubt.

I suppose I will remain 'confused' for some time to come, inevitably.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew. wrote:
ian neal wrote:
This has been discussed to death here. If you search 'nick' you will find the relevant threads which in turn relate to articles he posted on CODOH

http://www.google.co.uk/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1TSEACENUK367&q=c odoh+kollerstrom&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&oq=


I've had a look through.

astro3 wrote:
Quote:
No, of course I never said or wrote that Auschwitz was ‘like a holiday camp’! There are powerful liars and character-assassins at work here - its what the media like. That statement went all round the British media, so my friends were talking about it in shocked, hushed tones and half of them wouldn't speak to me anymore.


So is there any other info on this?


The guy is a pathological liar. He originally had this 'school trips to Auschwitz' on CODOH.

Quote:
Let us hope the schoolchildren visitors are properly taught about the elegant swimming-pool at Auschwitz, built by the inmates, who would sunbathe there on Saturday and Sunday afternoons while watching the water-polo matches; and shown the paintings from its art class, which still exist; and told about the camp library which had some forty-five thousand volumes for inmates to choose from, plus a range of periodicals; and the six camp orchestras at Auschwitz/Birkenau, its theatrical performances, including a children's opera, the weekly camp cinema, and even the special brothel established there. Let's hope they are shown postcards written from Auschwitz, some of which still exist, where the postman would collect the mail twice-weekly. Thus the past may not always be quite, as we were told


A version subsequently slightly amended is here
http://www.codoh.info/incon/incontrip.html

Quote:
Let us hope the schoolchildren visitors are properly taught about the elegant swimming-pool at Auschwitz, built by the inmates who watched the water-polo matches (6); and were shown paintings from its art class, which still exist; and told about the camp library which had some forty-five thousand volumes for inmates to choose from, plus a range of periodicals; and the six camp orchestras at Auschwitz/Birkenau, its the theatrical performances, including a children' s opera, the weekly camp cinema, and even the special brothel established there. Let's hope they are shown postcards written from Auschwitz, some of which still exist, where the postman would collect the mail twice-weekly. Thus the past may not always be quite, as we were told.


We see a man with a PhD uses e.g. crackpot anti-semitic site JudicialInc (which blames the Jews for just about everything) as a source. Kollerstrom's 'research' is so utterly dire, it would be a total embarrassment for a first year undergraduate. Hell, it'd be embarrassing coming from a GCSE student.
All his 'research' consists of is cack any numpty could copy off denier websites in about an hour.

And its mendacious nature is totally obvious to anyone who drags themselves away from denial websites and bothers to familiarise themselves with Auschwitz, an enormous and complex institution. Though that may entail perhaps having a few books on your shelf. "Art class" my arse. What a mendacious Nazi apologist Jew hating nob.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:


Does not change the fact that Nick produced some extremely piss poor ‘research’ which essentially concluded that the camps were effectively glorified holiday camps complete with leisure swimming pools and art classes for the ‘inmates’ and that many found these views deeply offensive.

Everything else flowed from there


I have just read a few of Nick's articles on CODOH. The two technical ones challenging the existence of the human gas-chambers are powerful. But no one seems to be interested in quoting from these.

His article "School Trips To Auschwitz" containins the ill-judged and offending paragraph. One can understand his point in including it, however.

The point is that these realities, the swimming pool, the library, the theatre (that must all have been used at some times in the life of the camp) provide some evidence that Auschwitz was a work-camp rather than a death camp. In a work camp the morale and health of the workers would be a matter of some importance. Hence the hygenic gas-chambers.

These details therefore jar with the tale being told to the children. They contradict the purpose of the exercise. They muddy the water. Tour guides and teachers would not be saying anything about these.

....so Nick points these things, mockingly, in the knowledge that these are things absolutely no one playing the mind-controlling game will want to refer to.

It was a mistake that damages him because critics do not want to contextualise these unfortunate comments. The people condemnung him do not want to understand what he is getting at.

I have taught at two schools that carried out these trips. Students and teachers returned after a "very emotional" experience.

Well, of course it was.

When I tried to raise questions about the motivation behind and factual accuracy delivered during the tours, some people found such questions outrageously offensive. I curtailed this public doubting because some were getting irate. If I wasn't everybody's friend I would probably have been in trouble.

They done that brainwashing good.

Hang on to your hats!

Here comes a war with Iran.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have just read a few of Nick's articles on CODOH. The two technical ones challenging the existence of the human gas-chambers are powerful. But no one seems to be interested in quoting from these.


They're probably not interested because it's just him copying Leuchter and Rudolf, rubbish that was demolished a decade ago. The guy is strangely grandiose - he just copies some old denier stuff anyone can get off the net, writes an article with it and claims it's "research".
Even in the wacky world of denial he's a nobody.

Quote:
The point is that these realities, the swimming pool, the library, the theatre (that must all have been used at some times in the life of the camp) provide some evidence that Auschwitz was a work-camp rather than a death camp. In a work camp the morale and health of the workers would be a matter of some importance. Hence the hygenic gas-chambers.


My God - the ignorance is just utterly breathtaking.

Quote:
When I tried to raise questions about the motivation behind and factual accuracy delivered during the tours, some people found such questions outrageously offensive. I curtailed this public doubting because some were getting irate. If I wasn't everybody's friend I would probably have been in trouble.

They done that brainwashing good.

Hang on to your hats!

Here comes a war with Iran.


Yes - the Auschwitz museum is inextricably linked to the war with Iran people have been confidently predicting will happen any day now for the last few years.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My final word on this

As well as the content and tone of the CODOH articles, Nick showed extremely poor judgement in the company he choose to be photographed in, which in turn led people to ask if he shared the views of 'Lady' Renouf or the British Peoples Party.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/05/22/presstv-britains-neo-nazi-broad caster/

http://savecatford.org/cblog/lady%20michelle%20renouf%20bpp.jpg

Now he has had ample opportunity to put the public record straight, to clarify or withdrawl his views re the swimming pools or to explain the nature of his association with Lady Renouf. An opportunity he has declined.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
My final word on this

As well as the content and tone of the CODOH articles, Nick showed extremely poor judgement in the company he choose to be photographed in, which in turn led people to ask if he shared the views of 'Lady' Renouf or the British Peoples Party.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/05/22/presstv-britains-neo-nazi-broad caster/

http://savecatford.org/cblog/lady%20michelle%20renouf%20bpp.jpg

Now he has had ample opportunity to put the public record straight, to clarify or withdrawl his views re the swimming pools or to explain the nature of his association with Lady Renouf. An opportunity he has declined.




I would be good to hear what he has to say and what his views are on this but.

The tone that most honest people get and connect is that Nazism is not about racism against Jews (Japhites or Ashkenazi people) at all but just an evil political tool just like Marxism and political communism. But that many dishonest people try to make out that it’s all about racism towards Jews.

And how about people denouncing equally evil ties and beliefs in political communism and Marxism.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Smear anyone? Reply with quote

Ian said:

Quote:
As well as the content and tone of the CODOH articles, Nick showed extremely poor judgement in the company he choose to be photographed in, which in turn led people to ask if he shared the views of 'Lady' Renouf or the British Peoples Party.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/05/22/presstv-britains-neo-nazi-broad caster/


This is more smear than anything else. We are supposed to believe that Nick is a neo-fascist because of the photograph with a fascist supporter. If he was photographed shaking hands with Nick Griffin, I'd be worried. But clearly, the photograph was taken at PressTV after of before the programme in which both appeared. We're supposed to believe that if Nick isn't a Nazi, he's a Theosophist. No evidence is given for either. They are merely libelous smears.

We're also supposed to believe that Iranians are fascist. Is this the beginning of the neo-Nazi smear against people in the Middle East because they are Holocaust deniers and revisionists?

To put the record straight on the Iranian government, the evidence is that Iranians intended to vote and did vote for Ahmadinejad by two to one. Despite the claims of the well-funded, US-backed movement against the government, http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/022710.html
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Hicks dispels the Myth of Gulf War 1. Who writes the History?

Bill Hicks: The truth about the War in Iraq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGA9p2-jAo


Link

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We are supposed to believe that Nick is a neo-fascist because of the photograph with a fascist supporter.


Quote:
On a different topic, I notice that people on this thread –and elsewhere - are moaning about me having been to dinner, once, with Lady Michele Renouf. She’s an Aussie former model who has worked in the advertising industry, and has never belonged to the BNP or any Neo-Nazi organization. :


Quote:
Forty plus Racial Nationalists gathered at a private meeting room in Hove, Sussex on April 21st to celebrate St.George’s Day. Members from the BPP mixed well with BNP and NF members and supporters as well as some other smaller groups.
The speakers were Tess Culnane, formerly a BNP election candidate; Peter Rushton, National Speaker for the BPP; Eddy Morrison, National Political Advisor of the BPP and Lady Michelle Renouf, renowned Revisionist. The meeting was ably chaired by Dave Jones, the National Youth Leader of the BPP Youth Division.


http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=15040&postdays=0&post order=asc&highlight=aussie&start=150

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:

They're probably not interested because it's just him copying Leuchter and Rudolf, rubbish that was demolished a decade ago.


Of course it was demolished. Just like 9/11 conspiracy theories, Protocols of Zion and the rest were demolished. Who decides what gets published, Dogsmilk? People on this forum know (or should know) it is big-time deceivers with something to hide.

Dogsmilk wrote:

My God - the ignorance is just utterly breathtaking.


Really? These facilities did exist and though the work camp no doubt degenerated into a very grim place indeed, particularly towards the end of the war it was an important producer of materials for the Nazi war machine. So Auschwitz was certainly not constructed as a 'death camp' and the evidence that it was specifically converted into a industrialised abattoir for human beings is highly suspect, to say the least.

The fact that it is impossible to investigate the issue publicly or raise the issue of Rudolf's research (say) without going to jail points to two things:

1) The people who stand behind this narrative are afraid of debating the issue because if they could prove their case they would bury so-called "deniers" with the truth. (Of course, if they could do that there would be no controversy at all.)

2) There are very powerful forces whose interests (and perhaps income) are threatened by the unravelling of this story.

Dogsmilk wrote:

Yes - the Auschwitz museum is inextricably linked to the war with Iran people have been confidently predicting will happen any day now for the last few years.


People are afraid to challenge Israel and submit to the interests of Jews because of the power of the gas-chamber.

If Israel or the US attack Iran, then such a cataclysmic insanity could only be explained with reference to the foundation upon which it has been constructed.......our collective acceptance of the gas-chamber meme, the greatest horror story in human history.

But did this deepest horror really happen? That's a question well worth answering.

Jesus said, "The truth will set you free"...and humanity will never be free until the truth about 'Nazi death camps' is known......and no one should accept that it is known until all evidence is openly and publicly debated without fear of any consequences for thinking the wrong thoughts.
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