FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Chat Chat  UsergroupsUsergroups  CalendarCalendar RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Poland's President and 96 Dead in Plane Crash
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> 9/11 & 7/7 Truth News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
GodSaveTheTeam
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 575
Location: the eyevolution

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Poland's President and 96 Dead in Plane Crash Reply with quote

A shocking and alarming piece of news given Poland's reticence to swallow the EU Lisbon Treaty wholeheartedly from the beginning:


Where President Kaczyński reveals he has questions over the EU voting system....

http://euobserver.com/9/24510

Quote:
Polish top officials have hinted they do not want Warsaw to appear as the only trouble-maker when the EU convenes the intergovernmental conference on the new treaty, on Monday (23 July), according to several Polish papers.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/polish-president-wont-s ign-eu-treaty-1799533.html

Quote:
Thursday, 8 October 2009 -Poland's President Lech Kaczynski will not sign the European Union's Lisbon Treaty on Sunday, his twin brother Jaroslaw said today, contradicting an earlier statement from a presidential aide.



And then miraculously agrees to sign it 2 days later...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1010/breaking18.html

Quote:
Saturday, October 10, 2009-Polish president Lech Kaczynski signed the European Union's reform treaty into law today, leaving the Czech Republic as the only country still to ratify the document.



Far be it from me to cast aspersions, but isn't this reticence to join the treaty and this most recent tragedy a little strange?


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100033738/polish-pres ident-killed-in-air-crash-the-conspiracy-theorists-will-go-crazy/

Also notice the title of the above blog entry...just in case any one has any questions...we already have it covered by our coincidence theorising journalists...


Or of course it could be an accident...

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/bobzimmerfan?feature=mhum#p/a
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
jazds
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be interesting to read more on this. It certainly looks suspicious. Has Poland upset someone recently?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gruts
Major Poster
Major Poster


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1050

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's eerie that a large swathe of Poland's politcal elite should get killed while on the way to commemorate the mass murder of a large swathe of Poland's military and intellectual elite 70 years ago.

of course it could just be an accident....

_________________
Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US/Russia re Missile shield?
Germany ongoing since well idk really.

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
paul wright
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2651
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that Georgian President Sakaashvilli, towards the end of his gushing tribute, describes the event as incredibly evil, and that 'we will defeat evil', then refuses to say what he means by that, fiddling nervously with his ear (or earpiece), in the CNN interview currently at the top of the CNN page here:
http://edition.cnn.com/

_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
paul wright
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2651
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One might imagine that the "Dummies Guide to State Security" might advise in its first chapter
"Never allow a country's President, his Deputy, Various senior Cabinet Ministers, the President of the National Bank, Military and other top brass, and assorted MEPs fly into Russia in the same aeroplane (particularly in an ageing Tupolev)

You might expect to find a footnote to this saying
"Should you accidentally find yourself in the above freakish situation, and you are approaching the airport, and air traffic control has advised the pilot that weather conditions are unsafe for landing, and the plane should divert to another airport, and the pilot ignores this warning, and makes an unsuccessful attempt to land, and is warned by ATC, two more times not to attempt landing, and two times further ignores the warnings and directions to divert, then you should stick a gun to the deranged pilot's head, and order him to follow the ATC's instructions, thereby avoiding the destruction of a very valuable cargo on a fourth attempt."

While the reasons behind the crash might be a little murky and difficult to fathom, the details of the flight an its inglorious end become absurd as soon as you look at them

_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jazds
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Paul. The details are indeed very absurd.

It would be easy to point a finger at Russia... too easy!

Let us not forget that the last time a Polish leader died over Katyn it was General Sikorski -who died alongside his daughter, his Chief of Staff, Tadeusz Klimecki, and seven high level staff officers - when his plane crashed in the sea 16 seconds after taking off from Gibraltar airport.

Sikorski had wanted the truth known, that it was the Russian's - not the Nazi's as the British government wanted it to be known - were to blame for the massacre of an estimated 22,000 Polish officers and civil servants!

Indeed several memorials in the UK strangely continued to blame the German's for the Katyn massacre up until the end of the Cold War, one of which was in Coventry!

Sikorski's death is interesting, in it's suspicious nature and in the politics behind the Katyn massacre, the role of propaganda and its imoral nature. Let us not forget that when Germany invaded Poland, so too did Russia - yet Britain and France declared war only on Germany. Of course we couldn't have fought both but that isn't the point I'm making.

The Suspicious Death of General Sikorsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0lOA06IeE&feature=related

The Polish film The General - The Gibraltar Assassination comes to the obvious conclusion that he was assassinated based on clear evidence. The lies about the Katyn massacre and our alliance with a tyranny at least as bad as the Nazi's had to be kept secret!

http://general.tvn.pl/english/o_filmie.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jazds
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katyn massacre 70 years ago -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time headline. Poland/Russia ties under new strain as Russia tried to patch old wounds.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1981060,00.html
Looks like a real crash is involved though :0

Quote:
The president of Poland was killed in a plane crash on Saturday in western Russia, setting off a new cycle of grievances between Russia and Poland on a day that was supposed to serve the cause of reconciliation between them. President Lech Kaczynski, his wife and some of his top security officials were among the 96 people killed in the crash. As the fuselage of the Soviet-made Tupelov airplane (operated by a Polish airliner) still smoldered in forest near the city of Smolensk, the grim irony of their deaths became clear to the stunned Polish nation: Their president had been on his way to Russia to commemorate the massacre of tens of thousands of Poles, who had been executed on the order of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin in 1940 in those same forests in the region of Smolensk.

lol when do Pilots have authority over air traffic control?? what nonesence?? Unless the plane was low on fuel. Sounds like lies to me though:
Quote:
Blame for the crash has fallen on the pilot, who reportedly ignored warnings from air traffic control and tried to land on Saturday morning in dense fog, snagging the tail of his plane on a tree about a mile from the airport. "The pilot was advised to fly to Moscow or Minsk because of heavy fog, but he still decided to land. No one should have been landing in that fog," an air traffic control official told Reuters, indicating that recklessness may be behind the tragedy. Russian law enforcement officials said they had opened an investigation, and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin called to express his condolences to Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who reportedly wept upon hearing of the catastrophe on Saturday.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1981060,00.html#ixzz0kmz eRmiB


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1981060,00.html#ixzz0kmz 9UZDW


more interesting though:

http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/09/polish-central-bank-pulls-t rigger-to-weaken-zloty/

By Marcin Sobczyk
In one of those rare moments of unity, the National Bank of Poland and the Polish government agreed on the need to weaken the Polish zloty, which over recent weeks has rebounded close to its precrisis strength. The currency’s strength is now seen a possible threat to economic recovery. After several verbal interventions over the past few days, the central bank intervened with real money Friday, for the first time in more than a decade.


Dow Jones Newswires
50 eurocents and 2 Polish zlotys, roughly equivalent as of April 2010.The bank followed through on its Thursday warnings that it is “technologically and psychologically” prepared to enter the currency market to prevent “excessive strengthening of the zloty.” Government officials also said earlier this week that the “strong zloty” is damaging growth and, after Friday’s intervention, said they fully back the central bank’s move.

Not too long ago economists said “the equilibrium rate,” which you could very roughly translate as “the fair value that’s acceptable for both exporters and importers,” of the zloty is around 3.80 zloty to the euro.

Considering that the zloty has only just approached that level, is it really too strong already? Or are Polish officials back in the mode of trying to improve Poland’s competitiveness by keeping the currency weak and exporters happy, disregarding how the average taxpayer, consumer and traveler feels about the strength of the Polish currency?

The zloty has been highly volatile over the past two years, reaching its strongest level ever at 3.20 zloty against the euro in July 2008 and weakening dramatically during the global financial crisis to near its all-time weakest level of 4.92 zloty in February 2009.

Over the past 14 months, the Polish currency has regained much of its precrisis strength. Late Friday it traded at roughly 3.88 zloty to the euro, down from 3.845 zloty before the intervention.

When the currency was at 3.20 zloty to the euro in 2008, exporters were complaining, but the economy was not contracting at all. That period of a super-strong currency showed that exporters have at least some ability to adjust or hedge — provided the zloty doesn’t fall or rise too quickly.

The real problem with the zloty is not strength or weakness, but its volatility. If the exchange rate was the real problem, as the central bank and the government are trying to make believe, why didn’t they react to the “weak zloty” last year when the rapidly falling currency was one of the most heavily discussed issues, especially given the popularity of foreign currency-denominated loans? Back then, many ordinary Poles found it hard to service their mortgages and yet the finance ministry only started selling its euros in early 2009 when the zloty neared an all-time low and threatened to break through 5.00.

According to some currency traders, the central bank managed to move the zloty down about 1%, buying just €9 million. Analysts put the figure at a more realistic €100 million or even €300 million.

Whatever the amount, the psychological effect was important for investors who were betting on further strengthening and now know the central bank really has its finger on the trigger. That may prevent volatility, but only if the market has reasons to believe the zloty is equally protected from excessive strengthening and weakening. Recent experience implies Polish authorities prefer an undervalued zloty.

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
scienceplease 2
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1473

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8615945.stm

The fact that Russia is pulling out all the stops to mend fences with Poland suggests to me that Russia probably were not behind the crash (except for supplying old and crummy aircraft).

Quote:
...A decision was even made that the film Katyn, by Poland's celebrated director Andrzej Wajda, which documents the Soviet lie, should be shown by Russian state TV, not just a peripheral channel.


And, of course, it does look like an air crash(!)... with a joint investigation team(!!)... seems like the Russians are doing the right things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redadare
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 180
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to contrat the picture posted by DD to those from Shanksville.

Some of the images are here.
http://hoodwinkedatshanksville.blogspot.com/

_________________
In the end, it's not the words of your enemies you will remember, but the silence of your friends. Martin Luther King
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2151

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where they forewarned like Netanhuy in London's 7/7?

Observing Sabbath Saved Life of Poland’s Chief Rabbi
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136941


Polish site with a picture of the plane with some funny images near or around the engine?
http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginalnowe.htm

Who profits who gains?
General Petraeus met the Polish Prime Minister a day before...
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6943999.html

Was this done to put pressure on Russia vis a vis Iran?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
acrobat74
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF this wasn't an accident (which is a big if), the ones who stand to gain the most from this are the ones who stood to lose the most from the Russian-Polish rapprochement over Katyn, which was a taboo subject only a few years ago.
_________________
Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2151

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Telegraph

Polish president killed in plane crash: the conspiracy theorists will go crazy


By Damian Thompson World Last updated: April 10th, 2010

250 Comments Comment on this article

Polish president Lech Kaczynski has been killed in an air crash, along with many of his country’s top brass. Read Daniel Hannan’s reaction here. One of the nastier consequences of international disasters is that conspiracy theorists rush to judgment – and I do mean rush. The fact that the president and so many of the Polish elite were on a visit to Russia will feature prominently in the fantastic stories being cooked up in cyberspace right now. And I can say with confidence that they are being cooked up, because Poland, like most East European countries, is obsessed with conspiracies. Russians, Jews, Americans, Freemasons – they will all be blamed. Some stories will be more credible than others. These explanations are so much more emotionally satisfying to traumatised people than the likely truth: that the Polish politicians – like so many politicians in less developed countries – were accustomed to risking their lives in dodgy planes.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100033738/polish-pres ident-killed-in-air-crash-the-conspiracy-theorists-will-go-crazy/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2151

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
IF this wasn't an accident (which is a big if), the ones who stand to gain the most from this are the ones who stood to lose the most from the Russian-Polish rapprochement over Katyn, which was a taboo subject only a few years ago.



I am veering towards the line that an agreement has been reached between Putin and Obama.

Georgia may soon fall back to Russian hands as the Ukraine has.
Rapproachment has been reached with Poland as evidenced the hugs between Kacynzkis brother and Putin after the crash.

This may be the green light for the long awaited attack on Iran...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 12300
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad weather notwithstanding. Knowing how the Western media unquestioningly lap up every BS story fed to them by NATO oligarchs and their minions.
This colossal motive is staring us all in the face. If it was an acident looks to me to have been carried out by NATO to stop forgiveness and rapprochment between Russia and Poland and the deeper understanding and action about who the true enemy is.
Serves also to remind us all of the pivotal role of Poland in WW2 and death of brave Sikorsky.
90% of poles beliee it was a conspiracy because they know the stakes and they know their history.

conspiracy analyst wrote:

This may be the green light for the long awaited attack on Iran...


Maybe - but China is today distancing itself from US statements that it favours Iran sanctions


Quote:
Death of Lech Kaczynski: political leaders who have died in plane crashes
Lech Kaczynski, the Polish President, joins a long list of world leaders who have died in plane and helicopter crashes. Here, in alphabetical order, is a toll of those who have perished in aviation accidents and assassination plots:

By Lucy Cockcroft
Published: 2:27PM BST 12 Apr 2010
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7581639/Death- of-Lech-Kaczynski-political-leaders-who-have-died-in-plane-crashes.htm l

Polish President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash in Russia Photo: AFP
– Abdul Salam Arif, President of Iraq, died in 1966 when his helicopter crashed in the south of the country. He was leading the country at a time when numerous factions were fighting for its control.

– René Barrientos, President of Bolivia, was killed in 1969 when his helicopter crashed in Arque. Rumours persist that it may have been shot down, however, all investigations concluded it had been an accident and that the rotors of the helicopter became tangled in electricity cables. He had been seen by many of his people as a brutal dictator who served foreign interests.

- Barthélemy Boganda, first Prime Minister of the Central African Republic autonomous territory, was killed in a mid-air explosion in 1959 just days before he was poised to become the first president of the independent CAR. His plane blew up over Boukpayanga killing all passengers and crew. No inquiry was conducted but sabotage was widely thought to be the cause, with his wife, rival businessmen and even the French secret service rumoured to be involved.

– Ahmed Ould Bouceif, Prime Minister of Mauritania, was killed in a plane crash off the coast of Dakar, Senegal, in 1979 – just a month after seizing power.

– Dr John Garang de Mabior, Vice President of Sudan, died in 2005 after the Ugandan presidential Mi-172 helicopter he was flying in crashed while on the way back from a secret meeting which he had not told his government about. Six of his colleagues and seven Ugandan crew members were also killed in the accident, which was blamed on poor weather conditions. However there are doubts about the truth of this, and even the Ugandan President suspected "external factors".

– Abdul Rahim Ghafoorzai, Prime Minister of anti-Taliban opposition government of Afghanistan, was killed in a 1997 plane crash in the Bamyan Province just 10 days after gaining office.

– Juvenal Habyarimana, President of Rwanda, and Cyprien Ntaryamira, President of Burundi, died together in 1994 along with the Chief of Staff of the Rwandan military, and numerous others when their plane was shot down as it prepared to land in Kigali. The circumstances of the assassination are still unclear, but both leaders were Hutus and their deaths reignited ethnic tensions and acted as a catalyst for the Rwandan Genocide.

– Jaime Roldós Aguilera, President of Ecuador, died in a plane crash in 1981 along with his wife, defence minister, two military leaders and four other passengers. officially, pilot error was blamed for steering the plane into a mountain in Celica Canton of Loja Province. However, others believe he was assassinated because of plans to develop the hydrocarbon sector, which would have threatened US interests or because he was strengthening ties with the Soviet Union.

– Samora Moises Machel, President of Mozambique, died in 1986 when his presidential aircraft crashed in the mountainous border of his country. There were ten survivors but thirty-three others died, including ministers and officials of the Mozambique government. The accident investigation concluded it was caused by pilot error. However, Mozambican and Soviet governments suspected the plane was led off course by a decoy radio navigation beacon.

– Ramon Magsaysay, third President of the Third Republic of the Philippines, died in a plane accident in 1957. The craft crashed into Mount Manunggal in Cebu killing 25 of the 26 passengers and crew on board. Only newspaperman Nestor Mata survived

– Francisco de Sá Carneiro, Prime Minister of Portugal, died in a Cessna light aircraft crash in 1980, eleven months after assuming office. He was on his way to an election rally in Porto when he crashed into a building in Loures. Eyewitnesses claimed they saw pieces falling from the plane just moments after it took off. Rumours of sabotage have continued to fuel conspiracy theories that the crash was in fact an assassination, but no firm evidence has come to light.

– Wladyslaw Sikorski, Prime Minister of Poland, was killed, together with his daughter, his Chief of Staff and seven others, when his plane crashed into the sea 16 seconds after take off from Gibraltar Airport in 1943. Only the pilot survived the crash. The accident had been seen as "convenient" for the Western Allies, who were finding it Sikorski was a stumbling block in preserving good relations with Stalin. In 2008 Sikorski was exhumed to investigate the circumstances of his death. However, in January 2009 the Polish Government concluded that there was no evidence he was murdered.

– Omar Torrijos, President of Panama, died while on a flight during severe weather in 1981 after the craft disappeared from Panama's radar coverage. His death prompted speculation of an assassination plot. There have been claims that he was assassinated by American interests who planted a bomb on the craft. Torrijos died just three months after Ecuadorean President Jaime Roldós and in strikingly similar circumstances.

– Boris Trajkovski, President of Macedonia, died aged 47 in 2004 en route to an economic conference in Mostar, Bosnia and Hercegovina. His plane crashed into a mountainside during poor weather and thick fog. The accident was said to have been exacerbated by mistakes made by air traffic controllers and a badly equipped runway. Eight other people also died.

– General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, President of Pakistan, died in 1988 when his plane lost contact with the control tower then apparently began flying erratically before nosediving and exploding on impact with the ground in the Punjab. Another 31 passengers died in the plane crash, including Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee General Akhtar Abdur Rehman, close associate of General Zia Brigadier Siddique Salik, the American Ambassador to Pakistan Arnold Raphel and General Herbert M. Wassom, the head of the U.S. Military aid mission to Pakistan. The crash has given rise to many conspiracy theories. A board of inquiry concluded the most probable cause was "a criminal act of sabotage perpetrated in the aircraft". It also suggested that poisonous gases were released which incapacitated the passengers and crew, which would explain why no Mayday signal was given.

_________________
www.rethink911.org
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.l911t.com
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
scienceplease 2
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1473

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh-ho...

I don't know where this photo came from but if genuine puts a hole in the official story...



And it doesn't look that foggy to me. Reporters that arrived early at the scene say they didn't see any bodies.

And reports of the aircraft flying at an angle. You can translate from Polish using language tools such as Google's.

http://www.globalnaswiadomosc.com/prezydentzginalnowe.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow Gunfire wtf??
after train whistle...

looks like this could be pulled, its been removed by original poster.

First minutes after Polish President plane crash...Amateur footage


Link


First minutes after Polish President Kaczynski plane crash in Smolensk 10.04.10
Four Shots in the background???

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
acrobat74
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, you can't be sure this was gunfire.

Secondly, if it was (big if), what would a reasonable explanation be?
That they're executing the survivors?
That they're shooting rabbits for dinner?
Very, very unlikely.

_________________
Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2151

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
Firstly, you can't be sure this was gunfire.

Secondly, if it was (big if), what would a reasonable explanation be?
That they're executing the survivors?
That they're shooting rabbits for dinner?
Very, very unlikely.


If you recall this plane crash
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/aug/15/theairlineindustry.cypr us4

At the time local eyewitnesses stated it was shot down.
The area was secured by firefighters and shots were also heard.

This crash was classified as weird as well...
http://www.newstatesman.com/200508290009

If there were no technical issues with the plane either
a) lights were placed in the forest to force an early landing thus provoking a crash
b) an electromagnetic weapon cut the engines out

The third black box has now been handed over to Poland.
I bet my bottom dollar they will not reveal a cause of the crash and if
they do they will blame it on the pilot as after all over the last few years we have many 'unexplained' plane crashes....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
acrobat74
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analyst, speculation, and wild one at that. All this may very well be totally wrong. Please keep that in mind.
_________________
Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
paul wright
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2651
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katyn II. How Satanists say we're sorry
http://www.henrymakow.com/katyn_ii_-_how_satanists_say_w_1.html

_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
paul wright
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2651
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tennesseesonsofliberty.com/2010/04/poland-plane-crash-trage dy-revisited.html
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds convincing to me, all those 1st person shooters you know Surprised
Apparently the cameraman is saying wtf over and over but I can't verify that either Wink
I'm sure a ballistics expert could answer the gun analagy though, like motors etc. all guns sound different Razz
It is good quality evidence if the audio is 100% genuine and to my untrained ear I'd say there could be a good chance its real. The sounds all seem to come from the right directions.
You can rule the Hunt analogy out I think imo, what creature is gonna hang around a plane crash except maybe Vultures Surprised

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
Analyst, speculation, and wild one at that. All this may very well be totally wrong. Please keep that in mind.


This is not 'Wild Speculation', but at the same time no one is peddling it as an answer to any outcome. Just that it is good audio and adds to suspicions Razz

The only other thing I can logically come up with is that it may have an excerpt of a game such as Medal Of Honour or Call of Duty carefully over dubbed so my mind is open Wink It would have to be very well executed though as it fades in and out with the camera direction.

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
acrobat74
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco_Destroyer wrote:
acrobat74 wrote:
Analyst, speculation, and wild one at that. All this may very well be totally wrong. Please keep that in mind.

This is not 'Wild Speculation'

Nonsense DD. What is it then, fact?

It's perfectly fine to hypothesize/speculate, even wildly, as long as one recognizes that hypotheses are just that and can be totally wrong.

But to persistently present speculation as fact, as some posters here do, and to form world views based on that, is simply ludicrous.

_________________
Summary of 9/11 scepticism: http://tinyurl.com/27ngaw6 and www.911summary.com
Off the TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4szU19bQVE
Those who do not think that employment is systemic slavery are either blind or employed. (Nassim Taleb)
www.moneyasdebt.net
http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2151

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
Disco_Destroyer wrote:
acrobat74 wrote:
Analyst, speculation, and wild one at that. All this may very well be totally wrong. Please keep that in mind.

This is not 'Wild Speculation'

Nonsense DD. What is it then, fact?

It's perfectly fine to hypothesize/speculate, even wildly, as long as one recognizes that hypotheses are just that and can be totally wrong.

But to persistently present speculation as fact, as some posters here do, and to form world views based on that, is simply ludicrous.


It could indeed be wrong. No doubt about it.
The proof of any analysis is what happens next, dont you agree?

The passengers on the plane may also be like some of the passengers on the jets during 9/11. Gone missing.
Either which way the Russians are now doing jobs with the Americans on Poland. If they are foolish enough and have aided in crashing the plane then like a mafia boss, the Yanks will have that card to use against them when they dont do their bidding...

Despite their anti-american posture on 9/11 and on Russia Today the Russians are only trying to bargain their way into the top table...
http://www.speroforum.com/a/26892/US-Official-Transit-Flights-Over-Rus sia-Taking-Place-Regularly

The Americans will use them to get what they want, and like a 'ho will drop them when they dont need them...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New World Order Report:

too many links so go there Surprised

http://www.newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/3149/What-is-the- conspiracy-with-the-Polish-Plane-Crash-How-about-these-facts.aspx

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6259

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.henrymakow.com/katyn_ii_-_how_satanists_say_w_1.html

Gun Shots Heard at Polish Crash Site (Update)
April 15, 2010

Coup d'Etat in Poland?
From our Polish Correspondent:

Quote:
Yesterday, this video appeared on youtube. This is really shocking. It was deleted in the morning. You can hear 4 shots there, at the end, there are Polish words - "Change of Plans."

The cameraman is swearing and scared, before shooting you can here in Russian - "dawaj gnata" - which is "give me the gun." Maybe you know Russian. It's on the website of one of Polish TV channels. It says that army specialists are going to examine that. People are shocked; the situation is getting serious; some people are manipulated and rioting in the streets against burying the President in King's Castle in Cracow. It's awful, it's clear manipulation. Very suspicious and quick changes in the army, lots of hidden bad things happening.


By Henry Makow, Ph.D.

In April 1940, the Soviet NKVD massacred the cream of Poland's nationalist and Christian intelligentsia in the Katyn Forest and elsewhere. They were slaughtered because they wouldn't agree to join the Communists in fronting a future occupation of Poland. http://www.savethemales.ca/the_greatest_story_hollywood_n.html

Seventy years later, on April 10, 2010, the heirs of the NKVD, who still run Russia, probably finished the job. They probably engineered a plane crash which killed the Polish President, the heads of the army and navy, the secret service and much of the patriotic wing of the Polish government. Thus they neatly eliminated one more obstacle to Satanic world government which is descending on the planet like a dreaded darkness.

This is how Satanists say, "We're sorry!" By repeating the outrage, again and again, until they are finally stopped.

The grounds for suspicion are numerous.

1. The plane was Russian and had recently been "refurbished" in Russia.
One blogger, a pilot, wrote, "Circumstances, however, point to a major accident or intentional blocking of the control system. Such a blockade may be intentionally installed so that it launched at a release from the chassis or flaps on the line immediately before landing."

2. As in the Pentagon attack, where there was no wreckage, there were no bodies to be found. Here is the YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjLY3PiG7EQ If the plane was at tree height, there would have been survivors. There would have been bodies. There would been luggage. As with the 9-11 passengers, it is possible the occupants were taken off the plane somewhere else, held or murdered. On Saturday, Russian authorities said all bodies had been found. On Monday the story had changed.

A Polish observer wrote: "Given the unlikelihood of Poland's top political and military leaders flying on the same plan, the execution or kidnapping of some of them in Poland cannot be ruled out. To explain their deaths to the general public, their names could have been added to the passenger list. According to media, only 14 bodies could be identified in Moscow with the rest being too badly burned."

A Polish friend wrote to me:"There is no sign of even one body or blood, the Polish cameraman thought that the plane was empty and when he was walking and recording it, he just noticed in shock that the plane was Polish but still didn't know it was President's plane.

"The plane was very low, at the level of trees but they could recognize only 14 bodies, the rest was shattered into pieces or burnt and needed DNA testing.

"They never called any ambulances, no doctors, only one fire engine and immediately they stated that nobody survived.In this video there is nobody searching for bodies, nobody looking if any people needed help, just fire engine and quite quickly coffins were sent. They said first that all the bodies were found and then next day, that only 14 could be recognized and they were still searching for bodies. There is lie after lie. Most of the people on the plane were the president's supporters and belonged to his party, being in strong opposition to prime minister who wasn't there.The cameraman was caught and pushed away from the place, he said later on TV that there was no chance there could be over 80 bodies ( which was cut off later from TV interview), he hasn't seen even one."

3. The entourage was supposed to travel by train. Suddenly the plans were changed and the generals were induced to join the group.

4. Eye witnesses heard explosions. A bomb? Another said the fog appeared just before the landing and quickly dispersed afterward. The Russians claimed the pilot didn't speak Russian which turned out to be a lie. The New York Times peddled the story that the President made the pilot land against his better judgment. This is the same New York Times that hid Stalin's mass murders from the American people.

My Polish friend writes: "Others say clearly about hearing the noise like from a bomb exploding and then silence.Besides, if there are awful conditions the plane is not allowed to land and the airport is closed for landing.

"It seems, that they were just normally trying to land with no worries and problems and suddenly something happened with the plane that lead all of them to death.

"The most valuable, christian and patriotic head of Poland has been wiped out with one blow, now the way is free, nobody will interrupt big brother any more."

I don't know how the Satanists pulled off 9-11 but I know the official story is not true. The same applies here. Accidents like this don't happen by accident. In one stroke, the globalist Masons, who are behind Putin as well as Obama, removed a thorn in their side.

Yes the Poles are in Afghanistan, but they had been steering an independent course on the Euro and the EU, and they rejected the swine flu vaccine and hysteria.

By virtue of its Catholic heritage, Poland is one of the last bastions of civilization in Europe. This will make the struggle of the Polish people, and all those resisting satanic and globalist enslavement, all the more difficult.
---

Related- From Christopher Story's World Report- Poland's Suspicious Second Katyn Tragedy http://www.worldreports.org/news/283_polands_suspicious_second_katyn_m assacre_tragedy-news (includes casualty list)

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 12300
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polish plane crash: pilots were not pressured to land
Black box analysis dispels rumours that passengers on President Lech Kaczynski's plane ordered pilots to land in fog
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/15/polish-plane-crash-lech-ka czynksi

Quote:
"There is no confirmation that any of the high-ranking passengers ordered the pilots to land near Smolensk. The flight recorder, whose tapes are being deciphered, did not register any pressure on crew members," a source close to the commission investigating the crash told the Russian news agency Interfax.

This week Poland's former prime minister Leszek Miller told the Guardian he thought Kaczynski may have personally contributed to the accident by insisting the pilots land in Smolensk in western Russia. Air traffic control on the ground had told the delegation to divert the plane to either Moscow or Minsk because of low visibility.

Kaczynski had been determined to reach Smolensk to attend a memorial service on the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, Miller said.

"The president so wanted to be there. The pilot knew this and so they accepted the risk and in the process lost everything," the former social democratic prime minister said on Sunday.

Russian investigators said the most compelling explanation for the crash remained pilot error. They said the crew knew Smolensk's military Severny airfield was not equipped with a modern landing navigation system, unlike international airports. "The Polish side was properly informed about this well in advance," the source said.

The president's Tupulov plane attempted to land three times. On its fourth attempt it clipped a copse of trees between 500 to 700 metres short of the runway, and immediately broke up. There were no survivors. Russian TV showed pictures of the upended wing and smouldering fuselage. Small fires burned in woods shrouded in fog.

Russia said it had formally handed over the black boxes to Poland.

_________________
www.rethink911.org
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.l911t.com
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> 9/11 & 7/7 Truth News All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group