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Gay marriage - will divide & rule destroy the family?
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Gay marriage - will divide & rule destroy the family? Reply with quote

Is marriage the union of a man and a woman - or a woman and a woman and a man and a man as well?

Few people object to gay couples having a 'civil partnership'. A public ceremonial demonstration of their private commitment to each other.
But is it appropriate, and should it be legal, for gay couples to go through a Christian marriage ceremony and have that partnership 'blessed' by God?

One can be in favour of gay rights but against gay marriage.


Christian charity worker suspended over opposition to gay marriage ...or...
Christian charity worker suspended over opposition to gay rights
April 12, 2009
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6081782.ece

past articles
TIME - Is Same-Sex Marriage Inevitable?
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=9501

Quote:
How Should a Christian Respond to “Gay Marriage”?
by Ken Ham
.....Over the centuries in our Western nations, people (including their leaders) almost universally accepted the belief that marriage was to be one man for one woman. In recent times, that once-prevailing view has been shifting—and rapidly.

What has brought about this change in the past few decades? The answer can be boiled down to how one considers this question: Who in society determines what is morally wrong or right? Years ago, for example, most Americans were not pro-abortion (or even “pro-choice”) and did not want abortion legalized. But a moral absolute regarding the sanctity of life has been dramatically tossed aside in recent times, so much so that even politicians who might be morally conservative in many areas have now moved to a pro-choice position and will not raise an objection to a woman’s “right to choose.”

Over the years, as society’s beliefs about absolute moral standards have changed concerning abortion and other issues, the laws have changed accordingly. So while the majority might agree on particular standards and laws today, they can be overturned by the next generation. What may appear to be absolute for one generation might not be absolute for another.........

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/wow/how-respond-to-gay-marria ge

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Last edited by TonyGosling on Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:23 pm; edited 5 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd think God would have far more important things to worry about than whether gay people are getting married. Who cares?
Besides, if He was that that arsed He wouldn't have deemed fit to make a proportion of he population gay throughout history but expect only heterosexual people to join in union in His sight. That would imply He likes messing with people's heads.
On top of that, an awful lot of contemporary marriages are secular anyway. The last three marriages I've attended (hetero) have been totally devoid of any religious content.

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One can be in favour of gay rights but against gay marriage.


How can someone be in favour of gay rights while simultaneously applying a double standard?
That's like being in favour of women's rights while saying their place is in the kitchen.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:
Who cares?


Marriage is being secularised.
Thanks for making my point for me.

God cares, read the Bible, OT particularly and you'll see.
The Bible plays no part in the mock / fake Christianity of Blair and Bush etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What point? Marriage becoming more secular has nothing whatsoever to do with whether gay people are getting married or not.
It was increasingly secular way before any gay marriage stuff kicked off and I think it would be hard to find a heterosexual couple who were in any way put off a church wedding by gays being able to tie the knot.
Christian belief has receded in this country. It's as simple as that. Particularly CofE type traditional Christianity - as I understand it, it's those Evangelical guys that are doing best right now.

Which kinda leads me to something else I don't understand. I don't know how many gay people tend to want a Christian flavour to their weddings, but if gay people have secular or even Hindu weddings or something, what business is it of Christians? If you have a secular wedding it's essentially an expression of love with legal implications. The couple could be practicing Satanists and still have a secular wedding if they so wished. Christians don't have the monopoly on weddings and what goes on with secular, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, Muslim, Pagan (though they're not recognised by law I believe), Zoroastrian whatever weddings is none of their business. So why is what gay people do any of their business? Unless they have some kind of problem with gay Christian weddings. Which, if anything, would up the number of Christian weddings going on.
Why do Christians have any right to say who's allowed to get married and who isn't? They don't own the concept.

Mind you, as far as I'm concerned why bother? I've been with my good lady 15 years - what do we need to get married for?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, gosh, it quite clearly does.
It is only because marriage has become so secularised that gay couples might think it possible for their relationship to be blessed by God.
Whatever god is doing the blessing it's clearly not the God of the Bible.
Wheras even 100 years ago gay relationships were illegal... now it appears you can be sacked for expressing the view that God cannot bless gay partnerships.
Or make yourself unemployable for ever.

Dogsmilk wrote:
Marriage becoming more secular has nothing whatsoever to do with whether gay people are getting married or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
I mean, gosh, it quite clearly does.
It is only because marriage has become so secularised that gay couples might think it possible for their relationship to be blessed by God.
Whatever god is doing the blessing it's clearly not the God of the Bible.
Wheras even 100 years ago gay relationships were illegal... now it appears you can be sacked for expressing the view that God cannot bless gay partnerships.
Or make yourself unemployable for ever.

Dogsmilk wrote:
Marriage becoming more secular has nothing whatsoever to do with whether gay people are getting married or not.


Well as you say, homosexuality used to be illegal. It was still regarded as a mental illness until the start of the 70s. Even when it was 'allowed', it was subject to intense social stigma. Though such attitudes still exist, they have greatly diminished and gay people have won a raft of rights in their drive to be on par with heteros. Marriage may be increasingly secular and the actual act itself not as common now 'living in sin' does not attract stigma. But if heterosexual people get married, their seems to be no rational reason why gay people shouldn't share the same privilege.

If Christians feel that gay people should not get married, I would agree they should have the right to protest this within their particular denomination, though I do not agree with their stance. I think it's also up to them if they disagree generally, but if a gay person gets married in a non-Christian ceremony it is essentially not really anything to do with them. Sure, it's not the God of the Bible doing any blessing - if you have a secular humanist ceremony, no God is doing any blessing and that's exactly the way you want it. No deity of any description is considered to be doing any blessing.
What I'm saying is if gay people have secular marriages, Christians have no special grounds to be upset. Marriage is not something exclusively Christian, Christians didn't invent the idea and they don't have the monopoly on it. If some Christians think me 'living in sin' is wrong, well that's up to them, but it is ultimately non of their business - it doesn't affect them in any way. Neither does gay people having secular marriages.
Ironically, opposing Christian marriage may ultimately make a small contribution towards secularisation generally because it can makes the church look anachronistic and anti-gay. From a social justice perspective, saying one group can get married but another can't requires a rational explanation as to why a double standard should be enforced - saying God doesn't like it does not cut the mustard with people who don't believe in that particular deity or don't share that particular interpretation of the deity's wishes. It just looks unfair. Why doesn't God want gay people to marry? What's the big deal? Loads of us live in sin and have sex before marriage - God may not like that either, but the blunt fact is the bulk of the population don't care. Because it doesn't make sense to them.

I'd be concerned about people losing their jobs, but it's matter of context. There's loads of things I can and do say outside work but would be sacked if I said them at work. If I told a client God cannot bless gay marriages I would be at least disciplined. As I would if I told them God wants gays to get married. Hell, if I told them there is a God who loves them I'd be in trouble. Or if there is no God. And I don't have a big problem with that because it is fundamental to my job that you don't put your religious or political opinions on to other people and that is basically a condition of my employment.
IMO it depends on the particular situation and who said what and in what context.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an opinion, it seems, that some people want to kill off.
Do you think that's acceptable?
Seems to me like someone's having a laugh in bad taste in trying to tell Christians like me what to believe.

If I had beliefs and could not express them I would become mentally ill and I find that imposition offensive. Wink

Someone will always say they are offended by the beliefs of others, particularly if they have a problem they're not prepared to deal with.

Anyway freedom of expression is enhrined in international law and those who want to stop it as a clear mark of oppression.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see Stephen Fry agreeing with me and millions of other Christians here. Solidarity mate!

Quote:
Stephen Fry: 'It doesn't matter what you call marriage'

By Staff Writer, PinkNews.co.uk • April 21, 2009
Stephen Fry has spoken out on gay marriage, saying it doesn't matter what wording is used.
Speaking from California, he said: “If people want to reserve marriage for a man-woman thing then fine, call it something else."
He continued: "A bonding, a uniting, a legal yoking - that's fine. Yoking is a lovely word. Yoked together…"

The presenter and his partner Daniel Cohen have been together for more than ten years.
"Over the last two years in particular, I've hardly spent a night in England, what with one thing and another," said Stephen.
"I'll go back in the middle of April and there's the QI programmes, so I'll be more settled for a while."
The star is currently appearing in US drama Bones as Dr Gordon Wyatt, along with filming BBC natural history programme Last Chance to See.....

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Gay Flag Flown From Liverpool Civic Buildings Reply with quote

Wait for the lightning bolt!


Quote:

THE parents of murdered gay teenager Michael Causer will be handed his book of condolence on Sunday.

On a day that will see a rainbow flag fly above Liverpool Town Hall for the first time, Lord Mayor Cllr Steve Rotheram will present Marie and Michael Snr with the book.

The flag will become multi coloured to celebrate the International Day Against Homophobia, celebrated each year on May 17.

Visitors will be asked to take part in a short survey to share their views on where and when the city’s first ever PRIDE festival should take place, and what they would like to see at the event.

Attendees can tour the historic building, enjoy afternoon tea and be invited to sign the book before its presentation to Marie and Michael Snr.

Michael, 18, died on August 2 last year after being beaten in what police initially believed was a homophobic attack.

James O’Connor, 19, of Runcorn, is currently serving a life sentence after admitting murder.

Cllr Rotheram said: “I’m delighted to be Lord Mayor when the Town Hall makes history and flies the rainbow flag for the first time.

“Sunday’s event will be a great opportunity for people to not only enjoy themselves but to also get involved with shaping a future PRIDE festival in the city.


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2009/05/12/mi chael-causer-parents-to-receive-book-of-condolence-as-anti-homophobia- rainbow-flag-flies-over-liverpool-town-hall-100252-23598164/

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
It's an opinion, it seems, that some people want to kill off.
Do you think that's acceptable?
Seems to me like someone's having a laugh in bad taste in trying to tell Christians like me what to believe.

If I had beliefs and could not express them I would become mentally ill and I find that imposition offensive. Wink

Someone will always say they are offended by the beliefs of others, particularly if they have a problem they're not prepared to deal with.

Anyway freedom of expression is enhrined in international law and those who want to stop it as a clear mark of oppression.
Well Christian do not try to impose their corupt views on the world do they. You Christians are all screwed up guy!
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Nice to see Stephen Fry agreeing with me and millions of other Christians here. Solidarity mate!

Quote:
Stephen Fry: 'It doesn't matter what you call marriage'

By Staff Writer, PinkNews.co.uk • April 21, 2009
Stephen Fry has spoken out on gay marriage, saying it doesn't matter what wording is used.
Speaking from California, he said: “If people want to reserve marriage for a man-woman thing then fine, call it something else."
He continued: "A bonding, a uniting, a legal yoking - that's fine. Yoking is a lovely word. Yoked together…"

The presenter and his partner Daniel Cohen have been together for more than ten years.
"Over the last two years in particular, I've hardly spent a night in England, what with one thing and another," said Stephen.
"I'll go back in the middle of April and there's the QI programmes, so I'll be more settled for a while."
The star is currently appearing in US drama Bones as Dr Gordon Wyatt, along with filming BBC natural history programme Last Chance to See.....
Stephen Fry thinks it is ok for MP's to screw the tax payer. so we can trust what he says can't we.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he said the financial corruption is insignificant compared to the warmongering and mass killings founded on lies from a similar source
He also has a profound dislike of media hacks
He ain't all bad

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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Gay marriage & gay rights Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Is marriage the union of a man and a woman - or a woman and a woman and a man and a man as well?
Line up two peaces of wood and sick them together and we 'marry' them. That's what marriage means, it means joining.

I gather you are a Christian Tony, but in the OT days marriage meant that two people love each other and were living together. It was later on that the marriage celebration/feast itself became seen as the 'marriage' and then authorised by a certificate of the State. In other words, if two people live together and are expressing intimate love towards each other they are married, regardless of what the State says by a 'marriage' certificate.

Then suppose you were married to a woman who could not have children? Would your marriage be invalid because of that? Then marriage does not have to mean in a sexual context anyway. The sexual context is intended for procreation and that's why we have male and female but in regard to homosexuals, whether we like the concept or not, why do people make such a big deal if they are not harming anyone?

Because the bible says it's wrong? But at the same time, even the bible does not view marriage in the same context as most people view 'marriage' today as being (only) a legal agreement. Then there is often a difference between what is legal and what is lawful, the latter saying in essence that we don't cause injury, harm or loss to other people.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add something here, but dogsmilk covered the proper arguments pretty well already.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree with the genius who said....

"Gay Marriage, I completely support it. Why shouldn't gay people have just as much right to be as miserable as straight people."

Nice.....

Freedom of speech and expressing ones opinion on the other hand is another matter altogether.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marriage is not the joining of two sticks it's the joining of two people in a God-blessed partnership.
Thankfully most people clearly see that is common sense.
Trying to change the meaning of the word is only going to work for dumbed down people.
As the fundamental basis of 'the family' as an autonomous social unit it's one of the key reserves of culture and therefore being atacked by the New World Order.

Gay couples can't marry because, while gay individuals can be, their gay 'partnership' can't be blessed by God.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TG wrote

Quote:
their gay 'partnership' can't be blessed by God.


Most certainly in the sense of "children are a blessing from God" line.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, the whole marriage the union of a man and a man, woman and a woman, and the promotion of homosexuality within schools etc. This is working towards the UN Agenda 21 and other publications on depopulations.

Of course this would make sense as homosexuals can't reproduce. And the labeling of homosexuals as "gay" is a misnomer as this is not meaning of being "gay". And that the homosexuals even label themselves and believe that "gay" refers to anyone thats a homosexual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay
Certainly don't take the information present within wikipedia as gospel

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazing interview about infiltration of London mosque by Channel 4 undercover reporter with George Galloway

Hilarious George Galloway Interview

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anq7LjMVQwo

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Marriage is not the joining of two sticks it's the joining of two people in a God-blessed partnership.
Thankfully most people clearly see that is common sense.
Trying to change the meaning of the word is only going to work for dumbed down people.
As the fundamental basis of 'the family' as an autonomous social unit it's one of the key reserves of culture and therefore being atacked by the New World Order.

Gay couples can't marry because, while gay individuals can be, their gay 'partnership' can't be blessed by God.


I agree with T-John marrying up is an engineering term Wink
The question is then, how long for? and when/how did the use start?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
amazing interview about infiltration of London mosque by Channel 4 undercover reporter with George Galloway

Hilarious George Galloway Interview

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anq7LjMVQwo


Infiltrating and expoising zionist outfits would be career suicide in the British or US media.

imposing gay marriage on Christians hasn't really much to do with gays or marriage.

Its about the break up of the Church as an institution.No institution which can be an alternative source of existence in terms of a world view is allowed under the NWO.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Government can't rewrite nature and allow gays to wed - O'Brien
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Government-can39t-rewrite-nature-and .6832538.jp
Keith O'Brien said any attempt to redefine marriage would be ‘strenuously opposed'. Picture: Phil Wilkinson
Published Date: 08 September 2011 - By Andrew Whitaker
The leader of Scotland's Catholic community has warned that moves by MSPs to legalise gay marriage will be "strenuously opposed" by the Church.
Cardinal Keith O'Brien, in a strongly worded homily delivered at a mass for politicians in Edinburgh last night, claimed that allowing gay people to wed through a civil or religious ceremonies would be a "direct attack" on the institution of marriage.
However, the intervention sparked criticism from MSPs, with the openly gay leader of the Scottish Greens, Patrick Harvie, attacking the Cardinal's remarks as "absurd" and as an attempt to "suppress" the freedom of gays, lesbians and bisexuals.
The row came after the SNP government launched a 14-week consultation on allowing gay marriage - a change to the law that currently allows same-sex couples to enter a civil partnership, but bans the ceremony from church or other religious premises.
However, Cardinal O'Brien suggested that supporters of gay marriage wanted to "rewrite human nature" as he appealed to MSPs to oppose the proposed reform.
He said: "The Church esteems the institution of marriage as the most stable building block upon which any family can rest.
"The view of the Church is clear, no government can rewrite human nature; the family and marriage existed before the State and are built on the union between a man and woman.
"Any attempt to redefine marriage is a direct attack on a foundational building block of society and will be strenuously opposed."
There was also a sharply worded statement issued by the Bishops' Conference of Scotland yesterday, which suggested that the Scottish Government's consultation was "an exercise for justifying the campaign demands" of the "vociferous" gay rights lobby.

But Green MSP Mr Harvie attacked the Catholic Church's stance on gay rights and highlighted a Scottish Social Attitudes survey which revealed 60 per cent believe same-sex couples should have the right to marry.
"It's absurd to suggest that one marriage can undermine other marriages," he said.
"Just as non-Catholics respect Catholic marriages, so it's time for the Cardinal to start respecting the right of every adult to love who they please.
"The Cardinal should also remember that he doesn't speak for all people of faith, or even all Christians.
"There are many faith groups who want to conduct same-sex marriages for their members, and the Catholic Church seems determined to try and suppress their freedom to do so."
SNP MSP John Mason, who faced criticism for lodging a parliamentary motion that said no-one should be "forced" to approve of same-sex marriage, said he wanted "to encourage churches" to get involved in the debate about the proposals..........
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Government-can39t-rewrite-nature-and .6832538.jp

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rolling apostasy - amazing the CofE has still not been privatised - surely then they'd make gay marriage in churches legal

Church of England should 'rejoice' over gay marriage, Bishops say
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9218079/Church-of-England-sho uld-rejoice-over-gay-marriage-Bishops-say.html
The Church of England should “rejoice” at the prospect of marriage between homosexual couples rather than fear it, senior bishops and clergy have said.
Signatories of the letter to The Times (note they still consider this revolting Murdoch rag as the paper of record), include Dr Jeffrey John, the openly homosexual Dean of St Albans Canon Giles Goddard, chairman of the progressive Anglican group Inclusive Church, five former bishops and the serving Deans of Portsmouth, Norwich and Guildford.
On Friday night church sources dismissed the names as “not surprising”, pointing that none of the signatories were “senior serving bishops”.
In their letter, the group said they welcomed current moves by the Synod’s House of Bishops to “consider again its view of civil partnerships and human sexuality”.
“We hope this will lead to a recognition of God’s grace at work in same-sex partnerships and call on the Church to engage in theological discussion and prayerful reflection on the nature of marriage,” they added.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Gay marriage - divide & rule will destroy the family Reply with quote

NOTE: absolutely NOBODY is putting the case against same sex marriage in the MSM.
And we've got to save our FREE PRESS from legislation
How ridiculous.

Marriage, like religious worship, is a sacred institution and has been for thousands of years.
You cannot break that sanctity, however powerful your cult philosophy & grip on the MSM is.


A God-given opportunity

Our general director Steve Clifford writes...
http://www.eauk.org/idea/a-god-given-opportunity.cfm

I still find it hard to believe I’m now the father of two adult and indeed married children. Over the last four years both my son and daughter have got married. They were great days of fun, joy and celebration reflecting their character and that of those they were marrying. I am pleased to report that both Ann and I have managed to survive the experience.

Our church doesn’t own a building, so those getting married usually have a registry office ceremony a few days earlier and then a full-on church wedding using all kinds of different venues. My son Jake was so lacking interest in the registry office bit that he managed to negotiate a discount rate for early on a Thursday morning. As far as he was concerned, it was a bit like picking up a birth or death certificate from the council – he wasn’t sure he needed any ‘civil ceremony’. I did point out to him that God was present on the Thursday morning even in Ealing Town Hall and that He did hear their promises even there.

What I realised was that what really mattered to my children happened a few days later. In the context of worship, prayer, the opening of scripture, surrounded by their family and friends they made their promises to each other and we as a church committed to walk with them in their marriage. Marriage isn’t just about two people making vows to each other, it’s a community event, we were never meant to make it work on our own.

Whatever comes of the re-definition of marriage debate and the government’s proposal to change the law to allow same-sex marriage - a proposal which we are working with others to campaign against, convinced it is not in the best interest of the society we live in - there is another significant debate which needs to happen which is highlighted by these proposals. How do we as a Church inter-relate with this thing called the ‘State’? This is a far-ranging and profoundly significant discussion, impacting on many areas of how we understand British society and participate in it. Over the centuries, in all kinds of areas of life, but notably in the areas of marriage, an agreement has been entered into with the Church delivering a service on behalf of the State; a marriage service.

This isn’t just true of the Anglican Communion but most mainstream denominations. The government has now proposed to move the goalposts by re-defining marriage. Not only would this diminish a key social institution, it would also undermine the partnership of Church and State which has emerged over centuries. This is particularly difficult for the Church of England which is under a legal obligation to offer a wedding to anyone who lives within their parish, regardless of their faith - an obligation which has provided some wonderful gospel opportunities. The excellent submission of the CofE to the marriage consultation highlights this dilemma and points to the untenable position that the established Church would be placed in by such changes.

So as we look to the future and should the government be successful in re-defining marriage, how will we as a Church respond? We might have to find our own words to describe what we mean by marriage - the government having hijacked the historic and biblical definition. Some churches might have to find new ways of celebrating a man and woman committing themselves to each other for life. Maybe the ‘open to all’ in a parish will no longer be available as the government’s moving of the goalposts will have profound implications.

The future will be more like what happens in many mainland European nations and indeed, as with my son’s and daughter’s weddings, we pick up our marriage certificate from the town hall, but then as a Church we celebrate our weddings in a way which reflects our faith without any government interference. In this context, although the historic social institution of marriage as a life-long union between a man and a woman would effectively be dead, there may be an opportunity for the Christian Church to breathe new life into its own God-given form of marriage. Perhaps with a sadness of heart, a God-given opportunity will emerge whereby we as the Church demonstrate with fresh faith and clarity what marriage as God intended it is really meant to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apart from one

Farage believes the gay marriage issue will serve his party well by highlighting the impact of the European court of human rights on Britain and by showing Ukip can rally support around a touchstone issue. "Ukip is not a one-issue party," he said. "But the gay marriage case is closely interwoven with the European court of human rights, as is so much of our life. Ukip will be seen to be a party campaigning not just about who governs Britain but about how we think that Britain should be governed."

The intervention by Farage came as Tory associations confirmed that members have resigned over the issue. The Arundel and South Downs Association, whose MP, Nick Herbert, is a leading supporter of the plans, confirmed there had been resignations. Councillor Gordon Marples, deputy chairman of the association, said: "Views are polarised. We have seen people resign on a point of principle. It is contentious. It is a big issue. It is not something I would have sought. I don't have any particularly strong views on it. I just believe in equality and this is the way society is moving."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/11/ukip-david-cameron-gay-m arriage

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it really matter that Britain is losing its religion? From a historical point of view, the census results that show a sharp decline in Christian belief are just the latest chapter in a long narrative of ceaseless change. A couple of thousand years ago, these islands were populated by wild men who painted themselves blue and read their fortunes in the entrails of birds. Then we were Celtic Christians, then Catholics, then Protestants, then a colourful mix of social gospels and now, today, a nation of agnostics who scoff at virgin births yet read horoscopes in vain search for a tall dark man. Plus ça change, etc…

But I suspect that something big will be lost when, in say ten years time, we officially become a minority Christian nation. For one, a shared faith brings coherence and consensus. I grew up in a Britain that was united by certain assumptions, most of which have been undone by postmodernity. We were Christian in a vague way (and the Anglican Church's vagueness has fringe benefits, such as tolerance and intellectual curiosity). We all learned the Lord’s Prayer and Have You Heard the Raindrops, and the Births-Deaths-Marriages cycle of Anglicanism gave a sense of Christianity running through everyday life like a thin silken thread. The unpicking of that thread is matched by a growing doubt about our moral history and the superiority of The British Way. Combine these with the physical changes to the high street, the decline of home grown cultural talent (we desperately need a new Steeleye Span), the rise of materialism and the mind-blowing breadth of the internet and you have the recipe for atomisation. We’re not even bonded by the telly that we watch, as the X Factor’s dwindling viewing figures show.

The death of religion also contributes to the slow erosion of the mental landscape. If you deny a child instruction in faith, you reduce their potential for imagination. When I was a kid I was forced to learn the piano. I hated the hours of practice and I particularly hated the miserable old bat who rapped my fingers with a wooden ruler when I struck the wrong note. In my late teens, I stopped playing altogether. But by forcing me to learn the piano my parents had given me an intellectual training that stayed with me for the rest of my life. If I wanted to pursue it or forget it, that was up to me. But thanks to that early experience, I can still read and understand music and so am equipped to fully exploit life. The same goes for religion. Raise a child in a faith and they may reject it later on – but at least they will understand it. But the mental landscape of the future generation raised by largely atheist parents will be sadly barren. No angels, no life after death, no prayer, no sacraments, no sanctity. As Jeanette Winterton put it, reflecting back on a painful childhood of strict religious indoctrination, without the strange “beauty” of religion, she would have been left with “my spray tan and my boob job”.

But most of all I fear that a Britain that is losing its faith is also losing some of its moral vocabulary. Consider the vapid response to the Credit Crunch. It was a crisis caused by greed and yet the obvious Christian Socialist response was absent. Neither the Anglican nor the Roman Catholic Church offered a stinging critique of the bankers, and when the grounds of an Anglican cathedral were occupied by economic protesters, the national church fell back on its lawyers. We are told that we are on a war footing by our Prime Minister, yet the policies that accompany it appeal entirely to self-interest (we are reduced to bribing French millionaires to move here). Corporations destroy our local businesses, refuse to pay a fair rate of tax and are then lauded as wealth creators – even by the Left. Much of the Left has lost its sense of moral outrage. While it happily speaks out for sectional interests like students and union members, it offers no transformative alternative to vulture capitalism and has abandoned its apostolic socialism. For the modern Left, faith and moral judgement are private matters. It’s no coincidence that Tony Blair not only didn’t “do God” but didn’t do socialism either.

Perversely, nothing speaks more to the death of the Christian conscience than the debate about gay marriage. That David Cameron – a Conservative?! – can challenge social traditionalism and win proves that ancient consensus about the most important things in life is lost. But when churches are reduced to being guardians of sexual etiquette, they also confirm their obscurity. Writing even as a theological traditionalist, I find it troubling that my Roman Church – which is historically the church of the poor, the immigrant and the disenfranchised – is increasingly defined by its position on sodomy. Whether one takes that position or not, it’s an odd thing to wear as a badge of honour.

If there is any hope, it surely comes from the Jedi. According to the UK census, 176,632 people now identify themselves as Jedi Knights. This suggests that the British have retained at least one of their unifying characteristics: a sense of humour. And how our craven establishment responds to it, I can’t wait to see. A Jedi wedding in Parliament with Sally Bercow dressed as Princess Leia? Songs of Praise coming live from the Death Star? Lord have mercy…

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100193977/britain-will-mi ss-christianity-when-its-gone/

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For one, a shared faith brings coherence and consensus.


Indeed it does. That is why Christian Germans, Christian Russians, Christian French, Christian British and other Christians all slaughtered each other in the 20th century knowing that "God is on our side". Following the teachings of Christ they practised brotherly love and peace to their fellow practioners of love, using guns and bombs and chemicals to deliver their message. Millions went to heaven earlier than anticipated in a selfless act of giving, there to live in eternal bliss with Jesus. We need more "consensus" to bring back the blitz of cities, the trenches and the concentration camps and save us from the present day horrors of drunken louts, single mothers and, God help us, homosexuals being open about it. Things were so much better when society was secretive, discriminatory, murderous and hypocritical. Oh for the "good old days".
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cursory study of those in charge of Europe in the run up to the first world war should make it clear to anyone that these leaders were not followers of Christ.
Part of the fundamental understanding of what is going on in the world today is fakers in the churches, often running them.

Right now factional fighting in the Middle East is being portrayed as people of faith fighting each other.
Why do you think the CIA created Al Qaeda? To co-opt radical Muslims of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A cursory study of those in charge of Europe in the run up to the first world war should make it clear to anyone that these leaders were not followers of Christ.


What about the millions being led? If they truly believed in the teachings of Christ they would have told the "Leaders" where to go. Like Christ would have. They are the ones who are the hypocrites whatever their nationality. What if the men in dresses arranged a war and nobody turned up? Blaming those "in charge" of Europe doesn't explain the behaviour of the millions of "Christians" who acted in the most un-Christian manner because someone told them to.

Quote:
Why do you think the CIA created Al Qaeda? To co-opt radical Muslims of course.


If they truly believed in the teachings of Mohammed and the message of Islam there would not be any "radical" Muslims. Not that there are anything like as many as we are led to believe.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimately it comes down to this

Is God or David Cameron head of the Church?

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbadnjVvx4o

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