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7/7 'truther' author Nick Kollerstrom is a Nazi Apologist
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Rory Winter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Anti-semitism that led to Two Holocausts, Past & Present


Shock & Awe Holocaust

While I do not wish, in any way, to belittle the Shoa or Holocaust of the 1940s I am amazed at the way the more recent Muslim Holocaust (1991 to the present) is --and I am tempted to say wilfully-- ignored by even those who might consider themselves to be liberals, of the left or of the anti-war movement. It isn't as if the figures to prove that Holocaust are not there. The Australian scientist, academic, lecturer, writer, author and artist, Dr Gideon Polya published these figures almost a year ago and his web-article is available at http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11670

Dr Polya has also published a huge pharmacological text entitled Biochemical Targets of Plant Bioactive Compounds. A pharmacological reference guide to sites of action and biological effects (London & New York). He previously published a detailed book entitled Jane Austen and the Black Hole of British History. Colonial rapacity, holocaust denial and the crisis in biological sustainability (Melbourne, 1998).

The latter dealt with the 2-century atrocity of British rule over India culminating in the man-made Bengal Famine of 1943/44 that killed 4 million people but which has been largely deleted from British histriography in a continuing process of sustained, racist, holocaust denial. His most recent book, Body Count, documents the similarly non-reported avoidable death of 1.3 billion people since 1950 on Spaceship Earth with the First World in control of the flight deck --for further details of Body Count, see http://globalbodycount.blogspot.com

Why is it then that the West is so obsessed with events that took place over half a century ago while it blocks out the reality of what is going on right now before us & as this post is being written? I would maintain that in both cases it is because the First World or what preceded it in Europe remains stubbornly in denial of its anti-semitic past as well as the new anti-semitism it practises against the Muslim world.

At an extreme level we can see this caricatured in the traditionally anti-semitic, racist BNP allying itself with a Jewish Zionist in the hope of attracting Jewish votes! The new tactic of the opportunist BNP, it appears, is no longer an anti-semitism levelled at Jews but of one against Muslims. While at one level this appears to be totally opportunistic at another it gives us a fascinating if not horrific insight into the darker corners of the European psyche in which the racial memories of persecution against both Jews and Muslims remains embedded.


Crusading against the Antichrist

Europe has never really owned the huge karmic debt it created for itself in what we appropriately call the Dark Ages. As a result, it was condemned to relive those horrors, first through the Holocaust of the Nazis and now the Holocaust committed by the Anglo-Saxon Alliance, the new Nazis, against that other semitic people the Iraqis and the partly-semitic people of Afghanistan. Somewhere in the European mind a myth was formed centuries ago of the crusading Christian who would prevail over the shifty and usurious Jew as well as the fanatical Mohammedan.

Hitler constantly used the first caricature and described himself as a Christian doing the work of the Lord. How different was his claim to the one we hear from today's Christian Zionists who seek to pressure US Presidents to attack Iran and bring on a final, nuclear Armageddon? And both the current US and UK governments have carried out a calculated and sustained campaign ever since the fabricated 911 incident to demonise, scapegoat and terrorise Muslims as fanatics and devils.

None of this, I believe, could have been possible if it were not for the Myth of the Crusading Christ that runs so deeply in the psyche of the Anglo-American and primarily Protestant mind. The psychiatrist, Carl Gustav Jung, argued that the everyday lives of humans have always been governed by one or another form of Myth. Myths, he said, are important symbols of meaning to the human psyche. Without acknowledging the importance of that inner world, men would find themselves empty of meaning. Something else would fill the vacuum which had been previously filled by the old myths. He warned that that was happening with the growth of fascism and the new myth of the strongman Dictator.

But it is interesting that even the strongman Dictators found themselves having to cash-in on the popular Christian myth that turns the Jew into the Antichrist by blaming Christ's death on the Cross on the Jews! Basically the same myth that Sacha Baron Cohen alludes to while singing his outrageous song, Throw the Jew down the Well, to gullible American rednecks. Anti-semitism against both Jews and Muslims dwells deep down in the Anglo-American and European psyche.


Two Sociopaths of a Kind

The current political correctness over the Shoa Holocaust originates in the feelings of guilt that Europeans still collectively feel about the brutal reality of where that anti-semitism led them to sixty years ago. It was easy enough to blame it all on the Germans, a defeated nation. And especially so as it was an Austrian that the Germans had allowed to lead them into the Nightmare. But before the coming of Hitler, German anti-semitism was really no different in nature to European anti-semitism in general, including that of Britain, immortalised in Shakespeare's evil Shylock and past pogroms.

The great irony is that while it is now politically correct to genuflect in atonement of their past sins against the Jewish people, Anglo-Americans project their inner guilt by murdering millions of those other semites, the Muslims, while at the same time seeking to revile and demonise them as terrorists and criminals! In tribal wars you have to do this. You have to justify your lust for murder by blaming it all on the evils of those you are just about to murder. The Zionists, on the other hand, seem to have no problems working with today's anti-semites. Why should they after having worked so closely with Hitler before?

It is totally understandable that the children of the victims of the Shoa should never forget how their parents and grandparents were murdered in the name of some absurd political dogma. But it is equally understandable that the relatives (if there are any left) of the eight million Muslims who died during the Anglo-Saxon coalition's Shock and Awe tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan should feel the same. The West rightly tried and punished earlier war criminals who happened also to be on the defeated side. How long, I wonder, and under what circumstances of a required defeat will it be before the war criminals of the West are similarly tried and punished?

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ian neal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspiracy analyst wrote:
Its not really about questioning the Holocaust as such.
Its about questioning the 'right' to Israels existence.
This cannot be questioned one iota. If it is you will be branded a 'holocaust denier'.

Being a '9/11 conspiraloon' pales into insignificance in being a Holocaust denier. Denying the Holocaust ie questioning it in whatever way one chooses, is the number one cardinal sin. Let us forget all the other Holocausts though, the Late Victorian ones, the Black, Aboriginee, etc.


You can very easily show the illegitimacy and crimes of Israel including Israeli war crimes in the occupied territories without ever having to mention the holocaust. Indeed it is far more likely to succeed if you steer well clear of the Holocaust. Why so many fail to see this is beyond me.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why is it then that the West is so obsessed with events that took place over half a century ago

The "West" isn't obsessed with it. Those who dominate politics and the media are, and there is a reason for their obsession. It is a useful tool to quell dissent or questioning of their actions and motives. They can do no wrong because it is anti-Semitic to criticise them. Attack their politics and sooner or later you will be labelled a "Holocaust" denier.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:


You can very easily show the illegitimacy and crimes of Israel including Israeli war crimes in the occupied territories without ever having to mention the holocaust. Indeed it is far more likely to succeed if you steer well clear of the Holocaust. Why so many fail to see this is beyond me.


You seem to be doing overtime.
So we are not allowed to link
Good job the Israelis are quite open about the link themselves isnt it?

http://www.forward.com/articles/13134/

Study Estimates Assets of Arab Lands’ Jews
By Marc Perelman


In the first effort to methodically calculate the amount lost by Jews who fled Arab countries after the creation of Israel, a Holocaust restitution expert estimated that the losses amounted to $6 billion.

The study, performed by Sidney Zabludoff and published this month in a journal published by the conservative Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, estimated that Jewish losses were significantly more than the amount lost by Palestinian refugees from Israel.

Close to 1 million Jews were forced to leave Middle Eastern and North African countries after the creation of Israel — a fact that has become a political volleyball as Palestinian refugees have pushed for compensation for their own expulsion from Israel.

Zabludoff peppers his paper with political references and proposals, and it seems likely that his figures will encounter protest from Palestinian groups. He estimates that the 550,000 Palestinian refugees lost $3.9 billion.

Palestinian critics argue that speaking of restitution is an insidious way of ruling out the possibility of a return to Israel — and Zabludoff is explicit in his paper that there should not be a right of return for Palestinian refugees.

“This is an insidious argument, because the advocates of Jewish refugees are not working to get those legitimate assets back but are in fact trying to cancel out the debt of Israel toward Palestinian refugees,” said Rashid Khalidi, Columbia University’s Edward Said professor of Arab studies.

Advocates for Jewish refugees are already seizing upon the new data to advance their cause.

“Just as the issue of Holocaust restitution became a priority for Jewish advocacy a decade ago, this issue needs to become a priority now,” said Elan Steinberg, vice president of the gathering of American Jewish Holocaust Survivors & Their Descendants, who worked with Zabludoff on restitutions at the Word Jewish Congress in the late 1990s. “It brings something that had been hidden in the Jewish consciousness to light.”

After years of neglect, Jewish groups have become increasingly vocal on the issue through an umbrella group called Justice for Jews From Arab Countries, which has pushed a variety of measures in Congress and at the United Nations that recognize the fate of Jewish refugees.

Last month, it scored a symbolic victory when the House passed a resolution demanding that any explicit reference to Palestinian refugees be matched by a similar reference to Jewish refugees.

“The issue of refugee assets has taken prominence in recent years, since the Palestinians began asking to replicate the Holocaust restitution mechanisms and the Israeli government responded by bringing up the issue of Jewish refugees in Arab lands.” said Michael Bazyler, a law professor at Whittier Law School and the author of “Holocaust Justice: The Battle for Restitution in America’s Courts.”

Zabludoff, a former CIA and Treasury Department official, reached the estimates without using any actual figures from North African and Arab countries. Instead he extrapolated the refugees’ per capita assets from earlier research on Palestinians and applied them to Jews after finding that they matched the pre-World War II figures for Eastern European Jews.

Zabludoff’s figures for Palestinian refugees were drawn from calculations made by a number of previous researchers. He said the difference between the Jewish and Palestinian totals was due not only to the higher number of Jewish refugees but also to the fact that Jewish refugees tended to be more urban and involved in trade activities.

He told the Jewish Daily Forward he had undertaken the work on his own and that he did not receive any instructions or financial support from Jewish groups.

No comparable estimates of refugee assets have been published previously. For instance, the Palestinians have often added to property losses psychological damages and lost income, reaching figures between $180 billion and $290 billion (in 2007 dollars), according to a study by Palestinian scholar Sami Hadawi. The World Organization of Jews From Arab Countries, for its part, has collated Jewish community assets and individual ones in coming up with a $100 billion figure.

“Sid is a reference in the field of assets evaluation,” Bazyler said, noting that the Israeli government had endorsed his figures about Holocaust-era assets. In the paper, Zabludoff is not shy about stating the policy proposals that he sees arising from his research.

The refugee issue “remains as a bargaining chip for Arab and Palestinian negotiators who continue to emphasize the issue via their political drumbeat. The only way to move toward the reality of how such events have been handled in the past is to stress the clear fact that there were more Jews who fled Middle Eastern and North African countries than Palestinians who left Israel,” Zabludoff writes.

To address the Jewish and Palestinian refugee grievances, Zabludoff proposes to create a $10 billion global fund, essentially extending to Jewish refugees a long-discussed mechanism for Palestinian refugees.

“What I would like to see is that instead of being framed as a political issue, it is addressed as a restitution issue,” he told the Jewish Daily Forward

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ianrcrane
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vitriolic, arrogant, self-righteous individual, responsible for this pathetic ad hominem attack on Nick Kollestom is completely in character.

... no surprises there then, eh?

Nick, I may or may not agree with your views on any given topic ... but I will do whatever it takes for you to hold and articulate those views without fear of persecution.

The moment any particular dogma or 'received wisdom' becomes the basis for required 'group-think', I am immediately motivated to investigate why it is that orthodoxy feels so threatened by any counter view.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackcat wrote:
Quote:
Why is it then that the West is so obsessed with events that took place over half a century ago

The "West" isn't obsessed with it. Those who dominate politics and the media are, and there is a reason for their obsession. It is a useful tool to quell dissent or questioning of their actions and motives. They can do no wrong because it is anti-Semitic to criticise them. Attack their politics and sooner or later you will be labelled a "Holocaust" denier.


On a Stop the War march in London I was handing out leaflets inviting demonstrators to a movie about 9/11 t be screened after the march was over. Two women demonstrating came up to me, refused to take the leaflet I was offering, and in New York accents declared I was a holocaust denier. "I am most certainly not," I contradicted. "Yes you are," they retorted. "You just believe in crazy garbage like this 9/11 nonsense."

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Moderator -
I do urge you to delete at least some of these rants by Mr Dogsmilk. They violate the code of politeness and respect that is supposed to prevail on this site. I spent quite a bit of time and effort in answering his queries, and just get him yelling more of his scorn, abuse and slimy accusations at me. Maybe that is the only way he can reason, I don’t know. Or otherwise just delete this whole thread. I'm not coming back here otherwise.

Mr Moderator, if you are going to permit your website to be polluted with personal insult such as I’ve here received from JohnnyVoid and Mr Dogsmilk, then you ought to stop calling it a Truth forum, because there is no way you can expect ‘truth’ to emerge from such a process - rather the contrary.

I’m sure Mr Dogsmilk feels better after unloading his semi-coherent rage onto this site, against me, but in my view you ought not to allow this site to be used in this manner. I don't reckon he has made the slightest effort to understand my point of view.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
conspiracy analyst wrote:
Its not really about questioning the Holocaust as such.
Its about questioning the 'right' to Israels existence.
This cannot be questioned one iota. If it is you will be branded a 'holocaust denier'.

Being a '9/11 conspiraloon' pales into insignificance in being a Holocaust denier. Denying the Holocaust ie questioning it in whatever way one chooses, is the number one cardinal sin. Let us forget all the other Holocausts though, the Late Victorian ones, the Black, Aboriginee, etc.


You can very easily show the illegitimacy and crimes of Israel including Israeli war crimes in the occupied territories without ever having to mention the holocaust. Indeed it is far more likely to succeed if you steer well clear of the Holocaust. Why so many fail to see this is beyond me.



If someone brands someone a 'racist', a 'conspiraloon' or the latest and more potent ad hominem attack a 'holocaust denier' I need to
a) to analyse their motives
b) seek to understand the context
c) in what way does it undermine the bigger issues of the day

For me personally having lost 2 uncles to the German occupation and having been told countless of times stories about German war crimes I have no doubt they occurred. On the numbers of those that died there will always be disagreement.

If you are now trying to explain to me that the issue of the Holocaust is an issue which must never be mentioned for the following reasons below
a) as it is propaganda for the USA to cover up its role in bringing Hitler to power, giving passports to Nazis after WW2 to set up the police networks to help them rule over South America
b) to justify the existence and continued presence of the zionist entity going by the name of Israel to keep the Arabs cowed
c) to collect money for Israel every now and again through recounting the horrors of the Holocaust and taxing modern day Germans, Swiss etc.

then unfortunately I cannot. If those who support the secret state and the engineered provocation which go by the name of 'terrorist attacks' call us conspiraloons and holocaust deniers they will be answered. Whether they then use the forces at their disposal to silence us or sack us from jobs or even imprison us for our ideas, they still remain liars, crooks and accomplices to the modern day holocaust of arabs and afghanis.
History will one day make them pay.
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Rory Winter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Conspiracy Analyst. We've had our differences in the past but, leaving all that aside, I admire your generosity & integrity on this issue. I am sorry you lost your relatives in that absurd war.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astro3 wrote:
Mr Moderator -
I do urge you to delete at least some of these rants by Mr Dogsmilk. They violate the code of politeness and respect that is supposed to prevail on this site. I spent quite a bit of time and effort in answering his queries, and just get him yelling more of his scorn, abuse and slimy accusations at me. Maybe that is the only way he can reason, I don’t know. Or otherwise just delete this whole thread. I'm not coming back here otherwise.

Mr Moderator, if you are going to permit your website to be polluted with personal insult such as I’ve here received from JohnnyVoid and Mr Dogsmilk, then you ought to stop calling it a Truth forum, because there is no way you can expect ‘truth’ to emerge from such a process - rather the contrary.

I’m sure Mr Dogsmilk feels better after unloading his semi-coherent rage onto this site, against me, but in my view you ought not to allow this site to be used in this manner. I don't reckon he has made the slightest effort to understand my point of view.


It is a constant source of amazement to me how people who claim they're battling for the cause of truth against the arrayed forces of the New World Order, or about to go forth and overturn history or whatever get all upset when someone makes some cutting remarks on an internet forum.
You're not in CODOH now where everyone agrees because only one opinion is allowed.
And I thought you deniers were all free speech? Now you're calling for censorship - posts deleted - on the back of a bit of sarcasm? Nice. So it's ok for you to accuse every witness to the gas chambers of being "discredited", but a few comments you don't like on a net forum should be forbidden? How does that work?
I am not in any state of rage whatsoever and if my posts are so semi-coherent, why are you seemingly unable to even answer a very basic and very straightforward question concerning your apparent selective use of evidence concerning Rudolf Hoess? (given you're apparently now a leading Holocaust scholar it is simply unthinkable you would be unfamiliar with his memoir. Particularly given how much Van Pelt talks about it).
If you spent so much "time and effort" answering my queries, then how come I'm still waiting for so many answers? Like exactly what transportation records are you referring to when you claim Jews were deported to Russia? Etc. You'll notice I always attach my barbs to actual arguments, so your failure to meaningfully address virtually everything I've raised remains obvious.

You haven't even explained in what way you think the Auschwitz swimming pool is actually important. How is it important? What bearing whatsoever does it have on the notion that Auschwitz performed selections on and subsequented exterminated the 'unwanted' portions of transports of Jews during specific periods? Or even that it was a brutal place to be incarcerated unless you were a kapo or managed to get posted to a good job?

Quote:
The sole point of everybody’s interest appeared to be, my comment that Auschwitz inmates could swim in a pool (from 1944 onwards).


Which inmates? When?

Your quote re Dr Larson is interesting. You reference crime doctor directly. So you're telling us you've read the book. I haven't read it. But it was recently quoted directly on RODOH -

Quote:
The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another.
However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those
prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with
them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First,
however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium
where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then
ordered to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped
in cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the
bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened
to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly
and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles.
But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally
examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical
facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was
imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or
function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi
called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting
well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination
was the answer

http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/94381/t/What-Outrages-Revisionists-Th e-Most.html#reply-94381

cited as p.61. You fail to give any particular page reference.

So he actually talked about some gassings at Dachau (a controversial claim in the other direction)?
Or -
Is the poster there - Philip Matthews - lying? Can you cite actual quotes to the contrary? If so, please go tell him he's lying or else I'll pop across myself and ask him about it. After all, you're telling us you've read it yourself and you've obviously come to a very different reading.
I discount the fact you've been bamboozled by a typical denier quote-distorting exercise as you're giving a direct reference and you've already said you spent months checking every reference in the British library.
But I certainly don't see how the quoted passage sits well with
Quote:
his refusal to diagnose cyanide as a cause of death in the German labour-camps.


Quote:
Mr Dogsmilk is frothing because I have pointed out that there are no photographs at all, anywhere, of an Alleged Human Gas Chamber, that was in any sense working. But there are photos of the actual gas chambers, showing the clothes hung up outside: after being de-loused in the chamber with the cyanide, the inmates’ clothing was hung up for a few hours outside, to ventilate. Would these do instead?


Please do post any photos you find interesting and let's have a look.
The frothing is on your part; You are claiming that the lack of photographs of the systematic slaughter of human beings is some kind of important argument. But what - exactly - is the basis for your disbelief that the Nazis failed to compile a big stack of incriminating pictures? Why would they be taking such pictures? What for? Do you expect contemporary newsreels proclaiming "Und now ve are gassing ze Jews!"? Did they - overwhelmed by guilt - secretly want to get caught? What is the actual basis to your argument beyond your personal statement of incredulity?

Quote:
Mr Dogsmilk needs to appreciate, that Revisionist argument is more based on physical records and available documents, while traditional pro-Holocaust texts rely more upon stories


This is simply false.
What you should have said is that Holocaust deniers tend to routinely dismiss eyewitness testimony (by which I assume you mean "stories". I can't see what else you'd mean). Mainly because the vast bulk of it doesn't work in their favour. However after simply asserting all the major witnesses are 'discredited', you happily cite a couple that seem to work in your favour. And then totally fail to address in any way what I pointed out about Staglich's testimony (he apparently popped into the camp 3-4 times to get food btw), though for some reason you just take him as credible. And how do I know that Staglich didn't even see the crematoria? He's quoted in Van Pelt's case for Auschwitz (p.140), one of the pitifully few 'pro-Holocaust' books you consulted in all those months of rigorous investigation.
Indeed, Van Pelt is repeatedly clear that he considers the consideration of all kinds of evidence as being vital and cross-references eyewitness reports with other evidence. Did you actually read case... or were you just looking at the pictures?
Interested readers can read Van Pelt's expert report for the Lipstadt trial and judge if Mr Nick is accurate that he's relying on "stories".
http://www.hdot.org/trial/defense/van/?keyword=germar%20rudolf
That said, eyewitnesses are important. The fact you're going to struggle to find eyewitnesses who said crematorium III was really a delousing chamber, air raid shelter or whatever it's convenient to say at a given moment is your problem. But please explain by what methodology you determine that your preferred "stories" present superior testimony than, say Olere or Tauber. Or Broad for that matter.
But I think if Mr Kollerstrom is going to make statements about "traditional pro-Holocaust texts", he should probably try reading a reasonable sample of the vast quantity of available material rather than slavishly parrot denier rhetoric.

And remember kids! Next time you're citing Willie Rodriguez, remember it's just a "story"!

You said on Blairwatch

Quote:
Hi, I note you seem to object to my having defended the proposition that: no German ever put a Jew into a gas chamber. You call that Holocaust Denial, well I’m proud to be associated with it. I’m happy to defend, it any time, any place. It happens to be true!



Any time. Any place.
As I said yesterday, my challenge to you is to go and take your arguments to RODOH. By, let's say, the end of this week.
Will you?
Or were you just huffing and puffing?
Don't worry - they can be quite rude over there, so you'll have a simple get-out clause to avoid actually defending your cliched drivel - you can just storm out all upset, demanding posts be deleted.

I'm offering 2/1 on him not doing it.

Funny how that last quote above sits a bit incongrously with

Quote:
he prefers to call himself a revisionist rather than a denier. Revisionists, he said, “want to look at European history without quite so much hate and bitterness”. (7) And that is where I'm coming from.


How noble. Look Nick, you're a Holocaust denier chanting the mantra of oh-so-familiar Holocaust denial arguments. End of.
If your cause is so noble, I would really like to know why you have so far failed to acknowledge your heavy reliance on anti-semitic and neo-Nazi/far right/Hitler apologist sources when I have raised this issue on this thread twice.

On CODOH, you said -

Quote:
Let's discuss the Bad-Arolsen archives and how many deaths they record as having taken place in the German WW2 labour camps, its quite an interesting subject. Why is this never mentioned in the media? But, I don’t want to hear that Jewish arithmetic, with its mind-control mantra of ‘six million.’ No thanks


http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4872&highlight=

Could you possibly explain what "Jewish arithmetic" is? Is it different to regular arithmetic? How does one determine if a given set of arithmetic is "Jewish"? I do not understand and request illumination on this matter. Thanks.


Oh yeah - Bad Arolsen.

Quote:
when the manager of the Arolsen archives (all of the ‘Holocaust’ records are kept in Bad-Arolsen in North Germany, and have gradually accumulated there over half a century) answered a question as regards how many cases of death by cyanide poisoning were in his archives. None, he replied – not one. Here is his letter:
Quote:
"unfortunately, we cannot reference a single document listing the death of a detainee due to gassing by Zyklon-B. As a rule, the Nazis gave other causes of death for inmates, who perished in the concentration camps.
With kind regards,
U. Jost Archival Manager" (3)


Well duh.
And at what point has anyone every suggested there is ever likely a be anywhere a big list of Jews with "Zyklon B" next to it. Seriously - are you having a laugh? I mean,

Quote:
Likewise from the Arolsen archives we get the total number of Jews who died within the German labour-camps of WW2


So you're trying to suggest there's some 'total deaths in the camps list' incorporating non-registered inmates of Auschwitz who were gassed on arrival? Get a grip. You may prefer to account for the records of people going in there and subsequently appearing to vanish.
The thing is, Arolsen has actually posed more problems for deniers.

I read some recent stuff about how its been helping confirm death numbers somewhere I can't remember and was going to search for, but I'm getting bored now so I'll just post some old stuff from when it was first being opened so readers can get a real world perspective.

Quote:
So what do these existing collections contain? The 189 reels of microfilm at NARA alone contain records of some but not all German concentration camps, but more interestingly also an incomplete set of deportation lists from Berlin and several other German cities. They therefore help document the number of Jews transported to Auschwitz, including thousands of Berliners deported during the so-called Fabrikaktion of early 1943, about which Wolf Gruner has recently written at length.

Moreover, other Arolsen files have been copied to Yad Vashem Archives. It was in these files, for example, that Christian Gerlach found a copy of a 1945 report indicating the numbers of arrivals at Auschwitz during 1944 who were selected for work, thereby clarifying the fate of Jews deported during the Hungarian Action.

Thus, the ITS files offer cold comfort for Holocaust Deniers such as Ernst Zundel, who claims that the Arolsen materials prove a far lower death toll inside German concentration camps.

The value of the Arolsen archive to researchers does not lie in the opening-up of files relating to the main concentration camps, since most of these are already available for public access at NARA. Moreover, the detailed records for many camps like Majdanek and Neuengamme were destroyed, never to be recovered. Nor does Arolsen contain materials relating to the Aktion Reinhard camps. It cannot be ruled out that the Arolsen archive may also contain more documents related to the fate of Jewish deportees like the Glaser report mentioned above. But this is not the only material that Arolsen holds.

Rather, the ITS archives could also help to clarify the fates of literally millions of other deportees, especially non-Jewish forced labourers from Western and Eastern Europe, but also the victims of ethnic expulsions in Central and Eastern Europe after 1945. Arolsen is therefore of concern not just to historians of the Holocaust, but to historians of the Second World War and its aftermath as a whole. Research into the deportation of well over 7 million foreign workers to Germany, the postwar movements of Displaced Persons, repatriaton programs and the ethnic expulsions will all be immeasurably enriched by access to the ITS files.

In this sense, Holocaust deniers expose their lack of imagination and lack of humanity when they concentrate solely on the fate of European Jews, ignoring the fate of millions of non-Jews who also suffered because of Nazi policies of deportation. Nor do they seem as concerned with the fate of ethnic Germans expelled from east of the Iron Curtain. Perhaps, in this last case, because it is easier to spout superficially sourced figures than to do proper research.



http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/03/arolsen-archive-con troversy-cold.html

Quote:
The fact is that both the Yad Vashem database and the Arolsen records pose a bit of a Hobson's Choice for deniers. If they insist on repeating the charge that not all names are in the database, then they have to explain why all the Dutch names are, and what happened to this not inconsiderable group of assimilated, Dutch-speaking, non-Yiddish-speaking Jews of whom nary a living trace has been found, while the ashes of some appear to have been discovered in the 1960s when Hydrokop conducted test borings around the Birkenau camp site and found sixty places where human remains had been buried. Ooops!

Then we have the Czech, Slovak, German, Austrian etc names, all cross-confirmed from archival files in Arolsen and elsewhere. Not to mention the more than 1 million Polish names. And none of this is even reckoning with the fact that the Yad Vashem database does not yet include, so far as can be seen, the name-lists of the Soviet Extraordinary Commission, or it would appear, the name-lists from the more than 1,000 yizkor books compiled by Polish Jewry immediately after the war.

None of this will ever yield the names of all five to six million victims of the Holocaust; the destruction of vital records in Eastern Europe, and the havoc caused in societies such as Poland and the Soviet Union which collectively lost nearly thirty million dead from all causes in the Second World War, mean a full listing will never, ever be possible. Why should that be surprising? The Russian government is still struggling to identify all military dead killed in action while serving with the Red Army.



http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/arolsen-aaargh-all- those-names.html

Worth reading both full blog entries though, particularly the second.
Seriously Nick, get out there and actually look at what the Arolsen records are about and stop gullibly hoovering up straw men from denierville.

I'm not getting into Zyklon B now. Besides, I'm writing all this while Krybaby Kollerstrom has demanded this thread be censored or else he's going to the garden to eat worms. So who knows if I'll even get a reply.

Quote:
I suggest he consults my chemistry thread, where he will find some detailed discussion of that survey. NB I hold the definitive thread on the subject of cyanide chemistry at Auschwitz.


Definitive eh? And have you actually taken it beyond the cosy "Is it denial? then it's true!" confines of CODOH? Take it forth into the world, my brave little soldier. Go forth! turn our world upside down with your "definitive" mastery of chemistry!
You're just such a polymath, aren't you?!

Quote:
I'm not coming back here otherwise.


Translate - I'm having immense trouble answering some incredibly basic questions from someone who knows very little about the Holocaust beyond a bit of hobby reading. It's unthinkable that it might turn out I actually know jack nonsense - I have a Phd in a totally unrelated subject for God's sake - so it's obviously his fault, not mine.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just think it's so terribly sad that whilst so many of us are keen to fight over the minutiae of the past the horrors of the present-day are left ignored ... perhaps to be discussed fifty years hence by others like us who will be equally obsessed with arguing the toss about the details. It reminds me of Brecht's poem (circa 1937), The Buddhas' Parable of the Burning House, in which he concludes:

Lately I saw a house. It was burning. The flame
Licked at its roof. I went up close and observed
That there were people still inside. I opened the door and called
Out to them that the roof was ablaze, so exhorting them
To leave at once. But those people
Seemed in no hurry.
One of them
When the heat was already scorching his eyebrows
Asked me what it was like outside, whether it wasn't raining

Whether the wind wasn't blowing perhaps, whether there was
Another house for them, and more of this kind. Without answering
I went out again. These people here, I thought
Need to burn to death before they stop asking questions.
Truly friends,
Unless a man feels the ground so hot underfoot that he'd
Exchange it for any other, sooner than stay, to him
I have nothing to say. Thus Gautama the Buddha.

But we too, no longer concerned with the art of submission
Rather with that of not submitting, and putting forward
Various proposals of an earthly nature, and beseeching men to shake off
Their human tormentors, we too believe that to those
Who in face of the approaching bomber squadrons of Capital go on asking too long
How we propose to do this, and how we envisage that
And what will become of their savings and Sunday trousers after a revolution
We have nothing much to say.


***************************************
Title: The Buddha's parable of the burning house
Source: Gleichnis des Buddha vom brennenden Haus (1937)
Translator: Hamburger, Michael
Citation: Poems 1913-1956 (290-292)
Editor: Willett, John / Manheim, Ralph
Author: Brecht, Bertolt, 1898-1956
Publisher: London, England: Methuen
Date: 1976
Description: From: Svendborg Poems. Same as Bad Time for Poetry (85-86), ed. J. Willett, Methuen, 1995.
Subjects: Poem
BBA: A 183
GBA: 12 / 36-7
Is Part Of: Brecht's Works in English: A Bibliography
Submitter: University of Wisconsin. Dept. of German
Local Identifier: BrechtGuide.01019.bib

THE BUDDHA'S PARABLE OF THE BURNING HOUSE
Bertolt Brecht


Gautama the Buddha taught
The doctrine of greed's wheel to which we are bound, and advised
That we should shed all craving and thus
Undesiring enter the nothingness that he called Nirvana.

Then one day his pupils asked him:
What is it like, this nothingness, Master? Every one of us would
Shed all craving, as you advise, but tell us
Whether this nothingness which then we shall enter
Is perhaps like being at one with all creation
When you lie in water, your body weightless, at noon
Unthinking almost, lazily lie in the water, or drowse
Hardly knowing now that you straighten the blanket
Going down fast -- whether this nothingness, then
Is a happy one of this kind, a pleasant nothingness, or
Whether this nothing of yours is mere nothing, cold, senseless and void.

Long the Buddha was silent, then said nonchalantly:
There is no answer to your question.
But in the evening, when they had gone
The Buddha still sat under the bread-fruit tree, and to the others
To those who had not asked, addressed this parable:

Lately I saw a house. It was burning. The flame
Licked at its roof. I went up close and observed
That there were people still inside. I opened the door and called
Out to them that the roof was ablaze, so exhorting them
To leave at once. But those people
Seemed in no hurry. One of them
When the heat was already scorching his eyebrows
Asked me what it was like outside, whether it wasn't raining

Whether the wind wasn't blowing perhaps, whether there was
Another house for them, and more of this kind. Without answering
I went out again. These people here, I thought
Need to burn to death before they stop asking questions.
Truly friends,
Unless a man feels the ground so hot underfoot that he'd
Exchange it for any other, sooner than stay, to him
I have nothing to say. Thus Gautama the Buddha.

But we too, no longer concerned with the art of submission
Rather with that of not submitting, and putting forward
Various proposals of an earthly nature, and beseeching men to shake off
Their human tormentors, we too believe that to those
Who in face of the approaching bomber squadrons of Capital go on asking too long
How we propose to do this, and how we envisage that
And what will become of their savings and Sunday trousers after a revolution
We have nothing much to say.

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Last edited by Rory Winter on Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just think it's so very sad that whist so many of us are keen to fight over the minutiae of the past the horrors of the present-day are left ignored ...


I think you're probably right there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who believe WW2 should not be discussed because of 'anti-semitic' clauses to silence debate...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Political censorship serves only these ends
No one has the definitive answer to many issues.
I used to believe the Yanks went to the moon due to my upbringing and schooling and what my parents told me.
After spending time researching it I now believe the story is a lie.
Does that make me believe in aliens, or ghosts or ghouls?

But I do know one thing what the picture shows below.
We should counter their propaganda calling them 'War On Terror' Holocaust Deniers?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you conspiracy analyst. Good post.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought I'd post the article about Nick from the Jewish chronicle as I don't think it's been posted on this forum yet.

Quote:
College rejects Shoah denier
25/04/2008
By Daniella Peled
A university has withdrawn a researcher’s fellowship after he published an article claiming that the gas chambers of Auschwitz never existed.

Nicholas Kollerstrom, an academic specialising in astronomy, posted the article, The Auschwitz “Gas Chamber” Illusion, on the website of the revisionist Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust.

He claimed that only one million Jews died in the war and that “the only intentional mass extermination program[me] in the concentration camps of WW2 was targeted at Germans”.

Dr Kollerstrom, 61, an honorary research fellow at University College London until Tuesday, stood by the claims this week, but expressed surprise that they had caused offence.

And he insisted the university “had not actually told me what’s so terrible about the article”.

He complained that he had been

accused of “thought-crime” after spending months researching it.

And he added: “If a smaller number were gassed, then surely the Jewish community should be pleased that it wasn’t so ghastly.”

He wrote: “Let us hope the schoolchildren visitors are properly taught about the elegant swimming-pool at Auschwitz, built by the inmates, who would sunbathe there on Saturday and Sunday afternoons while watching the water-polo matches; and shown the paintings from its art class, which still exist; and told about the camp library which had some 45,000 volumes for inmates to choose from, plus a range of periodicals; and the six camp orchestras at Auschwitz/Birkenau, its theatrical performances, including a children’s opera, the weekly camp cinema, and even the special brothel established there.”

Dr Kollerstrom, of St John’s Wood, North West London, said he prefers to call himself a revisionist rather than a denier. Revisionists, he said, “want to look at European history without quite so much hate and bitterness”.

He also claimed he was the victim of “a calumny” by bloggers who had accused him of far-right sympathies and posted on the internet an image doctored to show him in Nazi uniform.

“I have some very good Jewish friends and have never had the slightest interest in the Nazi movement,” he said. “I never go to Germany. I have always belonged to things like the Green Party, CND and Respect.”

A UCL spokesman said: “The views expressed by Dr Kollerstrom are diametrically opposed to the aims, objectives and ethos of UCL, such that we wish to have absolutely no association with them or with their originator.

“We, therefore, have no choice but to terminate Dr Kollerstrom’s research fellowship with immediate effect.”

A source at the university also said that there had been concern at opinions Dr Kollerstrom had expressed regarding conspiracy theories over the July 7 2005 London bombings and the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. His areas of research include Newtonian theory and the 19th-century British discovery of Neptune. He is also the author of a yearly guide to Gardening and Planting by the Moon, which contains chapters on “Using the Star Zodiac” and “The Moon and Crop Yield”.

Here is an extract from one of his postings on the CODOH website:

“Zyklon-B was used at Auschwitz, as an insecticide. It was vital in attempting to maintain hygiene that mattresses be deloused. Cyanide gas was absorbed on to clay-type granules, designed to make the deadly gas as ‘safe’ as it could be.

“If you go to Auschwitz today, you can’t see any authentic gas chambers. You see stone huts, and experts have testified that they could not have been used to gas people, owing to problems in sealing them up (Zyklon-B released its cyanide gas rather slowly).”

In another, he wrote:

“The verdicts of Nuremberg were made final and binding for the post-war FRG [Federal Republic of Germany]. Germany has since paid a hundred billion Deutschmarks to Israel by way of Holocaust-compensation — clearly, that needs to be refunded.

“Germany should take the advice of Iranian leader Ahmadinajad and stop paying it, because that funding provides undue motivation for holocaust ‘memories’. Germany is helping to maintain the holocaust legend, by thus aiding the state of Israel.”


http://www.thejc.com/home.aspx?ParentId=m11&SecId=11&AId=59657&ATypeId =1
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting that here doesn't help. In fact I think it has been posted elsewhere on this Forum. Most of us have had quite enough of the Zionist lobby. To put this sort of thing up just increases that sense of frustration.

This sort of article just cashes in on the European guilt-complex. The Zionists know exactly how to press the gentiles' buttons and they do. Zionism depends on that guilt-complex and plays on it mercilessly.

It's a dangerous game and it's already beginning to backfire. Most folk do not discriminate between Zionists and Jews: hence "It's about time we stopped feeling sorry for the Jews," is the kind of common thought-form it causes. And, as we know only too well, the people who take advantage of that kind of thinking are hardly those most decent folk would wish to associate with.

Jews who are concerned about the resurgence of (anti-Jewish) anti-semitism should listen to their friends. Be careful that you don't just mess around with but end up antagonising the ghosts of the past. There's still a lot of unresolved karma to be dealt with ...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, I think we've got another Nazi here, in 'lubbe'. There is documentary evidence to substantiate that it was the Nazis who were responsible. What are you, a minor Holocaust Denier or something?

This is the problem with a Forum like this. You get all sorts of creepy-crawlies coming out from under their stones!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rory Winter wrote:
Oh man, I think we've got another Nazi here, in 'lubbe'. There is documentary evidence to substantiate that it was the Nazis who were responsible. What are you, a minor Holocaust Denier or something?

This is the problem with a Forum like this. You get all sorts of creepy-crawlies coming out from under their stones!


lol, when you said that i thought you were referring to the poster above you

then i realised the poster above you was you Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's Aunty Rachel, Johnny? Has she given you your orders for today? My God, you do have a low IQ, don't you? No one wonder Aunty employs you as her messenger boy.

Oh, are you 'lubbe' as well? Awfully distasteful to use poor Marius van der Lubbe's name seeing as he was victimised and guillotined by the Nazis for something he never did. But then that fits in perfectly with the Government Conspiracy about 911 and those dreadful Muslim terrists that people like you in the controlled opposition keep yammering on about, doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I express my respect for all persons who have contributed to this thread, and hope that the pain involved in this debate may have been some use. My approach to what I’m calling the Greatest Lie Ever Told is basically chemical, that the walls of those old buildings, of the labour camps around the little village of Oswiecim/Auschwitz do hold a memory, one only accessible by chemical analysis. I don’t claim expertise on any other aspect of the matter, than this. What are designated as having been ‘gas chambers’ and to which UK school visits are now compulsory, do not have significant elevation of measurable cyanide in their walls above those of ‘controls i.e. barracks & washrooms. And we are here looking at about 15 samples taken from each of these two categories.

As a consequence of expressing this view, my reputation lies shattered and in ruins and awful calumny is expressed against me on a hundred different websites. To continue, the real gas chambers, those where the cyanide gas was actually used, day in day out, whose walls are now blue from being so saturated with the ferrocyanide, are not ‘on the course’ for visits to Auschwitz. There are some in the big ‘Birkenau’ complex at Auschwitz still standing. These walls measurably have a couple of thousand times higher levels of the cyanide, that came from use of Zyklon-B. Clothes went into these ‘disinfestation chambers’, to keep typhus at bay.

That is the basic politically-incorrect chemistry, of interest and importance to the entire human race and yet never published or commented on in any (English-language) chemistry journal. Yes, the chemist is in jail. I should be grateful that I’m not in jail too, not living in one of the 11 EU nations where that would happen, as a consequence of such a view. There is nowhere in Britain where anyone is allowed to discuss this issue. No public meeting can be held, no UK ‘Holocaust’ MA course permits doubt.

Twenty years ago, Fred Leuchter brought out his ‘Report’ which kick-started the Revisionist movement, and this comment upon the physical impossibility of the alleged process – by America’s only professional cyanide-execution expert – provoked an official notice of damnation by the House of commons with 100 MPs voting. But, what he wrote was true. Those old alleged gas chambers really were designed as washrooms and morgues, and could not have been operated as lethal cyanide gas chambers.

But, if you want, you can still have a million gassed by carbon monoxide from diesel exhaust, traditionally a part of ‘the Holocaust,’ and this is usually said to have happened in lorries etc. I’ve made no comment about this. Or, you can have cyanide gassing in some farmhouses out in the woods of which no traces now remain – and this has appeared in some books, after the implications of the chemical findings sank in. That all gets rather unverifiable but please note it’s an option. My position is: it is the cyanide-based mass executions, of Jews, in the traditionally-designated ‘gas chambers’ of the WW2 German labour-camps, that, as far as I can see, is ruled out by the chemical investigations to-date.

I don’t like being called a ‘Holocaust denier’ because the Nazi ‘final solution’ to the ‘Jewish question’ was the most terrible collective experience in their history, in which huge numbers died. Even more people died from the Nazi invasion of Russia, maybe 20 million. The Nazi regime was utterly abominable and something that history should never repeat. Of course. But, does that mean that certain issues are beyond discussion and get enshrined to where Doubt becomes crime? There is nothing more important than truth, historical truth about what really happened.

Chemical logic: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4111
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the New Statesman comments section - by astro3, Nick K
posted here for the record

Quote:

Dear Martin,

You describe me as a Holocaust denier. Could you very kindly tell me what ‘The Holocaust’ was and how exactly I am denying it? I’m receiving some quite strong moral damnation from even old friends, in response to what I’d hope was a physical/chemical argument. So this clarification would help.

You quote me as saying ‘"that the alleged massacre of Jewish people by gassing during World War II was scientifically impossible". Its true that on that Iranian program I did remark about the kinetics of gas diffusion, that it would not permit the gassing scenarios to which Rudolf Hoss ‘confessed’ at Nuremberg: viz that up to 2000 persons were crowded into a chamber maybe 30 foot long, Zyklon-B was dropped in through the roof via cylinders onto the ground, say three of them, then in 15-20 minutes everyone was dead. No heating, no fans. It takes a couple of hours for the hydrogen cyanide to evaporate from the Zyklon-B pellets, and no way could it have diffused throughout that large chamber to reach lethal levels in the time specified by Hoss, or anything at all resembling it. Especially on a cold winter’s day. I reckon only a few people around the piles of Zyklon-B would have died on the ‘Hoss scenario.’ Most of the world seems to believe in this process, characterized by its absolute physical impossibility, and it has been of late re-described without alteration in 'Auschwitz' by Lawrence Rees (2005).

Furthermore, there is not the residual cyanide in the walls of the ‘Krema’ (crematoria buildings, either shower-rooms or morgues) as measured at Auschwitz, to allow repeated cyanide gassings to have occurred. My whole case is based upon the concordance between the two chemical surveys, of Fred Leuchter and Germar Rudolf (1988 and 1991). See my essay, www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrnkwalls.html . The levels are simply not significantly higher than samples from ‘control’ walls from living quarters etc. The chemical evidence suggests that the Zyklon-B was used just where the German design-plans say they were used, viz the delousing chambers. Everyone screams at me that I must be a Neo-Nazi for saying this, but, Martin, am I not allowed as a science historian to reach a view about the functioning of certain chambers in Poland 66 years ago, where lots of cyanide gas was used, without having any political agenda?

NB my other more general essay, that got me thrown out of UCL (so my head of department, of Science and Technology Studies, told me) is ‘The Auschwitz gas-chamber illusion’ www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrillusion.html. In a nutshell, the ‘illusion’ here was the hoax perpetrated at Nuremberg, IMO, whereby all use of Zyklon-B was presumed to be for human exptermination, ignoring the manifest use of it for the delousing chambers as part of the struggle against typhus. A lot of people don’t realize that these chambers still exist today, and have their walls blue due to saturation with iron-cyanide from sixty years ago.

I will be very happy if anyone wants to comment, or indeed condemn me, so long as it is based on these essays that I have written, and not on unattributed web-gossip, of which there is quite a bit. I’m not competent to make any general statements about European history but this period was surely the most traumatic for European jews in their entire history so I’d have thought ‘the Holocaust’ was a reasonable term for it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PETER LEVENDA AND THE MAGICKAL ROOTS OF NAZISM
interview by Tracy R. Twyman
Peter Levenda’s quest for the truth began in 1979 while reading Aftermath: Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich, by Ladislas Farago, about how Hitler’s former Riechsleiter had escaped to South America after the war pretending to be a priest, protected by the "underground railroad" of Nazi sympathizers that operated and still operate all over that continent, including many if not most of the police and military. Levenda came across a description of one of Bormann’s many hideouts, a Koreshisn cult compound called "Colonia Dignidad" (Colony of Righteousness), which was, as Farago described, "the weirdest encampment of the postwar world, housing a sect that combines Nazism and vodooism." Intrigued as he was by such an odd combination, Mr. Levenda decided to check the place out for himself, and actually flew down to Chile to conduct the investigation. He did manage to penetrate the compound, but only briefly, and this led to him being chased out of Chile by a series of unidentified agents, then later fired from his job at "a large, multinational corporation that did a lot of business with the Chilean military." It also led to the research that eventually culminated in Levenda’s terrifying, spellbinding book, Unholy Alliance: A History of Nazi Involvement with the Occult.

The History

It all started with the Thule Gesellschaft, a pagan, anti-Semitic, right-wing aristocratic society founded by a Freemason and Eastern mystic named Baron Rudolf von Sebottendorff. They met every Saturday in Munich’s Four Season’s Hotel to discuss things like runes (an old German alphabet), racial evolution, Nordic mythology and German nationalism. Registered under the name "Thule Gessellschaft" as a "literary-cultural society", in order to fool the communist Red Army now controlling Munich, this group had originally been known as the Germanenorden, or the German Order Walvater of the Holy Grail. According to Levenda, ‘The Germanenorden had an impressive series of initiatory rituals, replete with knights in shining armor, wise kings, mystical bards and forest nymphs’, including a Masonic-style program of secrecy, initiation and mutual cooperation." But they were not copying the ideological aspects of Freemasonry. As Levenda writes, "What the Germanenorden became was, essentially, an anti-Masonry: a Masonic-style society dedicated to the eradication of Freemasonry itself." Their symbol was a long dagger on top of a swastika, and their beliefs had been influenced largely by the writings of Guido von List and Lanz von Liebenfels, two men who will feature prominently in our story. Liebenfels had founded the neo-pagan, swastika-waving "Order of the New Templars" on Christmas Day, 1907, along similar ideological lines. In that same year, occult researcher Guido von List began The List Society, part of a then-developing "völkish" (folkish) movement extolling the virtues of Norse heritage, heritage which could be traced by reading the Edda, a compilation of Icelandic legends which Hitler would later take great interest in. The völkish movement itself was based in part on the ideas of Madame Helena Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Society famous for her books Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine. She wrote that humanity was descendant from a series of imperfect races which had once ruled the earth, and which all had a common Atlantean origin dating back millions of years, culminating in the Aryan race, which had at one point possessed supernatural powers but had since lost them. She also romanticized about the occult significance of the swastika, of Lucifer, "The Light-Bearer", and of a cabal of spiritual "Hidden Masters" called the Great White Brotherhood, who guided human evolution from their abode in the Himalayas and who Blavatsky herself purported to channel during her many self-induced trances. And the philosophy of List and Liebenfels took this a bit further, to the extent that the Aryan race was the only "True" humanity, and that the Jews, along with a host of other undesirables, or "minderwertigen" ("beings of inferior value") were sapping the race of its strength and purity through the evil machination of Christianity, Freemasonry, capitalism and Communism. They believed that the Aryan race had come from a place called Thule, the north pole, where there was an entrance to a vast underground area populated by giants. "Among the völkish cults", writes Levenda, "it was believed that -- as soon as the Germans had purified the planet of the pollution of the inferior races -- these Hidden Masters, these Supermen from Thule, would make themselves known, and the link which had been lost between Man and God would be forged anew."
http://www.american-buddha.com/levenda.nazi.htm
http://www.american-buddha.com/levenda.nazi.htm

TonyGosling wrote:
This thread isn't about Rachel Carlos, it's about Nick's extraordinary writings. Whatever you think about her I think she's done us a service flagging this up. I personally had never read this article of Nick's.

And let's remind ourselves of Nazi Nick Kollerstrom's flirtation with the London Theosophical Society - which he tells me he visits regularly and does talks - an organisation that many, including author of Unholy Alliance Peter Levenda, show acted as a sort of domestic 'infernal incubator' for the Nazi ideology through the Thule Society and its magazines, Nazi party and Adolf Hitler himself.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7/7 Truth activist Nick Kollerstrom hands himself in for questoning

9/11 activist hands himself in over Cameron remarks
Wed Oct 1, 2014 12:43AM GMT

A 9/11 British activist hands himself in to UK’s counter terrorism police following British Prime Ministers David Cameron’s speech at the UN General Assembly last week, Press TV reports.

In response to Cameron’s remarks equating people, who question 9/11 and 7/7 attacks in the US and UK as well as the West’s policy towards the Middle East, with Takfiri preachers who radicalize extremists, Nick Kollerstrom handed himself in.

“As the evidence emerges about the backgrounds of those convicted of terrorist offences, it is clear that many of them were initially influenced by preachers who claim not to encourage violence, but whose world view can be used as a justification for it. And we know what this world view is, the peddling of lies: that 9/11 was a Jewish plot or the 7/7 London attacks were staged; the idea that Muslims are persecuted all over the world as a deliberate act of Western policy,” Cameron said while addressing the 69th session of the United Nations General Assembly on September 25.

Explaining his actions to the Press TV correspondent in London, Kollerstrom said, “David Cameron has redefined terrorism at the UN to include people, who believe that the London bombings involve government complicity, were to some degree arranged, which I certainly do believe, and I’ve published a book on the subject and also I believe the 9/11 was an inside job. I do think Islamic nations are being selectively targeted, it’s perfectly obvious, and if the police force are going by his directive what constitutes terrorism, it seems to me that they need to arrest me.”

The Press TV correspondent was present while Colestrom handed himself in.

“We want to report a possible terror threat, we've got a bit of evidence and wonder if we could come in and report it,” Kollerstrom said at Scotland Yard headquarters in London.

The British police refused to arrest Colestrom, but he said that Cameron’s definition of nonviolent extremism will lead to the arrest of many Muslims, who share his views, and described it as another example of racial profiling.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/10/01/380620/911-uk-activist-hands-h imself-in/
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/10/01/380627/uk-pm-dubs-activists-wh o-challenge-terrorist-official-stories-nonviolent-extremists/

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Campbell (whose brother died in the Twin Towers) visits New Scotland Yard and Parliament to hand himself in, and is filmed by 'We Are Change' London:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Elai0QvNA

Peter Neathey (he produced the play '7 Seconds' about Building 7, which has played a number of times in various venues in London) tried to hand himself in on Friday, was filmed by Press TV, and they are doing a documentary on it.

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