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A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail
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marndin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail Reply with quote

Dear Mr Noakes,
You have a strange idea of the best way to influence sceptical minds.
First, you seem to have had access to private correspondence between me and someone else. If David Shayler wants to write to me, he should do so direct. However, since you are obviously in touch with him, feel free to pass this on to him. Second, I will not be browbeaten into credulousness.
The idea that the US government would deliberately slaughter its own citizens is fundamentally absurd. A reasonable person would start from the position that the US authorities are innocent of this crime, and demand - which you have not produced - evidence of it before taking such a claim seriously enough to devote further time to it. . Supposition is not evidence. When you have some, please let me know. I may well be a very bad man. That is between me and my maker. The question is whether I am right or not. The 'nine-eleven' cultists, interestingly, also make much use of that Edmund Burke quotation, in their case to justify silly wars and attacks on liberty. The truth seems quite bad enough to me without this drivel. I do not think Edmund Burke intended his words to be used for such ends, and your use of them does not convince me. My point about the DVD player was a simple technical one, and happens to be a fact. If there is evidence for this claim, a film will no strengthen it.

PH

My Letter

Dear Peter

I am dismayed at the fact you appear to have ‘looked the other way’ as far as evidence is concerned on 9/11. If it was just a couple of anomalies I could accept your viewpoint, but the events of that day are literally surrounded by a plethora of unexplained actions and deceitful statements.

For you to not challenge that situation as a ‘Christian’ is despicable and spineless, regardless of your fear of job security.

How could you PRETEND to not have access to a DVD player, and then say that you haven’t the time to look at VHS footage when offered it?

You should be ashamed to call yourself a journalist!

Here’s a quote from Edmund Burke: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

However, I’m not sure that you can currently even be classed as a ‘good man’.

Please reconsider your position here, as our future freedoms (yours as well as mine) depend on it.

Martin Noakes

peter.hitchens@mailonsunday.co.uk
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can rebut his poitn about not harming their citizens with the declaration of the air quality being safe despite them note knowing. 16000 people are now suffering as a result and that is early figures, birth defects are not being counted as well as other things

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242006/news/regionalnews/rice_okd_claim_ of_safe_air_after_9_11_regionalnews_susan_edelman_______heather_gilmor e_____and_brad_hamilton.htm

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SHERITON HOTEL
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were Peter Hitchens exact words in reply to David Shayler on the 'Heaven and Earth Show' Sunday September 10 about meeting him to debate the 9/11 truth? Can we get a transcript?

Excellent work by the way.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyb wrote:
I think you can rebut his poitn about not harming their citizens with the declaration of the air quality being safe despite them note knowing. 16000 people are now suffering as a result and that is early figures, birth defects are not being counted as well as other things

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242006/news/regionalnews/rice_okd_claim_ of_safe_air_after_9_11_regionalnews_susan_edelman_______heather_gilmor e_____and_brad_hamilton.htm


thats a very good idea andy.

although he'll probably dismiss it as a harmless mistake on behalf of the authorities

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SHERITON HOTEL
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimmyG wrote:
andyb wrote:
I think you can rebut his poitn about not harming their citizens with the declaration of the air quality being safe despite them note knowing. 16000 people are now suffering as a result and that is early figures, birth defects are not being counted as well as other things

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242006/news/regionalnews/rice_okd_claim_ of_safe_air_after_9_11_regionalnews_susan_edelman_______heather_gilmor e_____and_brad_hamilton.htm


thats a very good idea andy.

although he'll probably dismiss it as a harmless mistake on behalf of the authorities


Didn't the authority (EPTA?) get direct instructions from the Whitehouse to declare the air and water safe directly post 9/11?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail Reply with quote

marndin wrote:
Dear Mr Noakes,

........................

The idea that the US government would deliberately slaughter its own citizens is fundamentally absurd.


I take it thatr you pointed him in the direction of Operation Northwoods? And also the bible, where God sends a flood to wipe out all of mankind, except a few on the ark. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4687
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHERITON HOTEL wrote:
TimmyG wrote:
andyb wrote:
I think you can rebut his point about not harming their citizens with the declaration of the air quality being safe despite them note knowing. 16000 people are now suffering as a result and that is early figures, birth defects are not being counted as well as other things Didn't the authority (EPTA?) get direct instructions from the Whitehouse to declare the air and water safe directly post 9/11?


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09242006/news/regionalnews/rice_okd_claim_ of_safe_air_after_9_11_regionalnews_susan_edelman_______heather_gilmor e_____and_brad_hamilton.htm


thats a very good idea andy.

although he'll probably dismiss it as a harmless mistake on behalf of the authorities


Yes they did, at direct White House intervention. Details can be found in the Stephen Jones latest powerpoint presentation.

""White House Misled City on Post-9/11 Health Issues"
By Laurie Garrett, Newsday August 22, 2003
• "Language in an EPA draft stating that asbestos levels in some
areas were three times higher than national standards was changed to "slightly above the 1 percent trigger for defining asbestos material."
• This sentence was added to a Sept. 16 press release: "Our tests
show that it is safe for New Yorkers to go back to work in New York's financial district."
• A warning on the importance of safely handling Ground Zero
cleanup, due to lead and asbestos exposure, was changed to say that some contaminants had been noted downtown but "the
general public should be very reassured by initial sampling."
• New York's leaders responded with dismay.
• Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-Manhattan) called for a Justice Department
investigation. "That the White
House instructed EPA officials to downplay the health impact of the
World Trade Center
contaminants due to 'competing considerations' at the expense of the
health and lives of New
York City residents is an abomination," he said in a press release.
• "I want an independent investigation to determine
exactly who at the White House manipulated the
information." D. Yassky"

"A spokeswoman for the agency, Mary Mears, said in a statement that
the EPA stood behind its work on ground zero environmental hazards,
as did the university scientists. The scientist making the
complaint, Cate Jenkins, who has a Ph.D. in chemistry and works in
the agency's office of solid waste and emergency response, said the
test results helped the EPA avoid legal liability. New York
residents have sued the agency in federal court, claiming it bungled
the cleanup."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very disapointed in Hitchens reply. I think he is quite on the ball a lot of the time, but his response here makes me question my previous opinion of him.

My father says the same thing, that he can't believe the American government would do that to it's own people.

How can anyone think like that, when history shows the people with lots of power, quite often will do anything to further their own aims, including kill people. It's not as if people have to believe it was the whole government either. It's quite possible a small cabal could have at least allowed the attacks to happen, if not more.

To just dismiss the idea of doing a thorough investigation, which is only fit for a crime of this magnitude, even if there was no doubts what-so-ever from anyone, is hard to reconcile.

As there are many worrying questions, even if it's just how competent the building designers were in creating builings that hold whole cities that can be wiped out with single plane hits, there is just no way a detailed investigation is not essential. The best case scenario is criminal negligence and incompetence happened that day, but I have to say I fear there was too much of that to be coincidence.
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SHERITON HOTEL
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be a good move to contact the Sunday mail editor and tell him/her that Hitchens ducking out of the promise he made on 'The Heaven and Earth Show' to David Shayler damages the journalistic integrity of the paper he/she edits? (presuming he/she didn't instruct Hitchens to drop it).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail Reply with quote

marndin wrote:
The idea that the US government would deliberately slaughter its own citizens is fundamentally absurd.


Someone shoud tell him about Operation Northwoods, it is available to download on Wikipedia.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail Reply with quote

AntiZionistAntiNeocon wrote:
marndin wrote:
The idea that the US government would deliberately slaughter its own citizens is fundamentally absurd.


Someone shoud tell him about Operation Northwoods, it is available to download on Wikipedia.


I think the White House perversion of the EPA's mandate to protect people from envoronmental hazards is enough to put that idea out to grass.
Nearly 300 dead first responders to date and who knows how many 100.000's of other workers and residents will appear over time.
If that isn't inhuman, I'm not sure what it takes to float your boat.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently it was Condi Rice who gave the order for the EPA cover up.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: A reply from Peter Hitchens to my e-mail Reply with quote

Hi there, I'm new around here... Smile

marndin wrote:
A reasonable person would start from the position that the US authorities are innocent of this crime, and demand - which you have not produced - evidence of it before taking such a claim seriously enough to devote further time to it.


Mr.Hitchens doesn't seem to realise that this is where most of us started.

Nevertheless, this is a really good idea, and is surely the viewpoint that you find in most serious literature and film dealing with 9/11.

Anyway, just for fun, couldn't we compile a list of say ten points that might begin the questioning of the idea that "US authorities", a vague term at best, were "innocent"? We could then send that back to Mr.Hitchens.

Perhaps #1 could be:

1. Put options on UA, AA, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley; followed by resignation of the head of the unit of Deutsche Bank that the UA/AA transactions were traced to on 9/14; followed by the failure to collect $2.5m of reward from the UA/AA transactions (what about the other ones? nothing in the timeline about this...); following by the 9/11 Commision dismissing all questions on insider trading without providing any verifiable sources:

Quote:

Taken from http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ timeline&startpos=2100#a072204notrading

In a footnote contained in its Final Report, the 9/11 Commission dismissed allegations of insider trading in the days preceding 9/11. According to the Final Report, the put options of the parent companies of United Airlines were placed by a “US-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al-Qaeda” “as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10.” With respect to the highly suspicious trading on the parent company of American Airlines, the Commission stated that much of the trades were “traced to a specific US-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades.” According to the Commission, “The SEC and the FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments. These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous.” [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 499]


That's fine, but I wonder what the newsletter is? Who the "US-based institutional investor" is? How about the reports from the SEC and FBI, showing the results of their investigations?

Many outstanding questions on this topic alone, which would help justify a new inquiry into 9/11.

I should also add - isn't that the goal of the Movement, to get a new inquiry into 9/11, rather than to prove that the USG did it?

The latter goal is where problems lie when trying to talk to people about it. Merely highlighting the outstanding questions is enough - it's worked for me in private conversation, and removes the need to *prove* that *anyone* did the attacks - that's not our job, it's the job of a properly equipped inquiry with powers of subpoena.

Anyway, what else would people add to the list?

Andrew Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dear Mr Noakes,
You have a strange idea of the best way to influence sceptical minds.


Actually, I have to agree with hitchens. Whilst I wouldnt want to in anyway discourage or pooh-pooh anyones efforts, the letter was far to aggresive and wouldnt have worked on me

Money where the mouth is though, I'll write one myself and post it up

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Money where the mouth is though, I'll write one myself and post it up


I prefer action rather than words, and give credit and encouragement to the doers, like Martin, in the 911 truth campaign Salute

Good luck John White, lets hope you get a fair and reasonable response from the honourable Mr Hitchens.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right John, however, his mind isn't sceptical, it's 'closed'.

I'm not usually aggessive like that.

On a plus point though, he has now revealed to us all his true colours. He doesn't honour his promises and won't behave like a 'true' journalist should. i.e. look at the evidence before coming to a conclusion.

It's understandable that your average person in the street believes what they read, but totally unnaceptable for journalists to print stories that are obviously untrue, especially when they mean life and death.

We need to hold these journalists to account somehow.

Following his e-mail I have sent him a far more balanced reply with lots of information about the events on that day.

I doubt that he'll check it out though.

He has a right to his opinion, but a person in his position has a duty to investigate and accurately report facts to the people who purchase the newspapers.

We need to be looking over their shoulders and pressurising them.

Martin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Understandable scepticism.. Reply with quote

I have to agree here with John White. I believe that the only way forward with introducing people to doubts about 9/11 is to raise questions as to why 9/11 couldn't have been carried out by 19 Arab highjackers using stanley knives, not labour in immediately with accusations that factions of the American Government "must've done it".

I always start off by posing questions to those I speak to, such as "How some a 110 storey building free-fall to earth, indeed, not one but two?", "Why did a third also collapse at free-fall speeds?" (that one is great, as many people are rather surprised to learn that there was a third) "How could not one but four aircraft swanny around American airspace for 1/1/2 hours, yet not one fighter was scrambled to intercept?", "How could planes vapourise, when I've seen news films of planes slamming into the side of mountains yet there was clear wreckage visible?". Then once the person is starting to doubt, one can press in further.

Imagine your reaction if someone were to say to you (and many thanks to aMark Gobell of this website for this quote) "I've just seen Jesus walking on the Thames". What would be your reaction?

I do think, though, it would be a good idea if several of us were to e-mail Mr Hitchens with our various doubts and questions.

In addition, I don't believe anyone on this forum knows what actually happened that fateful day. The Truth Movement is, as far as I am aware, campaigning for a full, thorough, independent and unbiaised public iinquiry into the events of 9/11.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think you are wasting your time on Hitchens

He is one of those false oppositions put in place to make it look like we have a free press.

I wrote to him at Mail on Sunday over a year ago and sent him the Eric Hufschmitt book and DVD - 911 isn't something that's new to him.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr Hitchens

I'm writing to follow up an E-mail from Mr Noakes regarding 9/11 that you received recently: please don’t dismiss this mail out of hand because of that, I hope you will bear with me for just a moment

Firstly, I would like to offer some clarifying information:

Like Mr Noakes, I am a member of the British 911 Truth Campaign message board, www.nineeleven.co.uk

The campaign has no formal centralised structure, and is basically a collection of individual citizens trying to find clear answers to the enigma's of 9/11, and generally campaigning for there to be a new investigation into the events of that day

I do not believe Mr Noakes message was based around private conversation between yourself and Mr Shayler (who does not actively post on the message board) but on the public record of your appearance on the "Heaven and Earth" show on the morning of Sunday September 10th. Clips from television programmes are widely available via the internet, and for those privately questioning official statements on a wide range of subjects, not least 9/11, form an important source of primary evidence

Its not for me to apologise for any misunderstanding, but I trust that some common sense clarification is useful

Actually, you exchange with and impressions of Mr Noakes reveal one of the persistent problems with communication between, for example, journalists such as yourself, and private individuals like Mr Noakes. 9/11 was such a traumatic and psychologically affecting event that it makes considering the issues with clarity rather difficult: especially because individuals have a tendency to become upset and emotional when they consider themselves to be lied to, and even more so when they consider the culprit to be government. This leads to people being dismissed as lacking credibility all too often, and does not conclusively demonstrate there is no cause for concern

You have asked for evidence that there is something wrong with the official account of 9/11, and I would most sincerely recommend that you give a little of your attention to this website, where I believe you will find information that can be considered journalistically credible:

www.911pressfortruth.com

and their hour and a half documentary

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481&q=press+fo r+truth
(*updated link*)

Here you will find the story of the Jersey Girls, four 911 widows who were absolutely instrumental in pushing the Bush administration to allow any kind of investigation into 911 at all, and Paul Thompson, the investigative reporter who helped them assemble a detailed picture of the events leading up to 9/11 with information data mining techniques

You will not find talk of controlled demolitions or other attempts to understand and explain anomalies that are currently unprovable

But you will find a solid account showing 3 principal major problems with excellent records and sources:

1) Clear and incontrovertible evidence of prior knowledge and a failure to take effective action

2) A Clear demonstration of how the 911 Commission was whitewashed

3) A credible look at where the funding for the terrorists came from, and of how Osama Bin Laden was given corridors of escape during the Afghan campaign

If you study this information, I believe you may find a compelling case to consider that 9/11 has not been credibly investigated, and that people of good conscience must consider supporting the call for a fresh and rigorous investigation: which is all the British 9/11 Campaign is asking anyone to do

Sincere regards to you Mr Hitchens, your work exposing the moves to remove civil liberties and install a surveillance state are certainly very much appreciated, and my thanks and appreciation for you taking the time to read this message

Yours Sincerely

John White

www.malvernmesages.com

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent message John.

Have you e-mailed it to him directly?

Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Course I have mate: any news, I'll let people know
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be aware chaps of the special relationship that The Mail enjoys with Millbank and Vauxhall Cross?

It's extremely unlikely that Hitchens is in denial about 9/11 - he is far too well connected to the grandee, mandarin and spook elite to be ignorant of what is really going on.

But many of you should start to grow up. You are far too idealistic. There's no such thing as a cricket loving democracy. It's a dog eat dog world out there where ALL states do despicable things routinely to protect their national interests.

On the scale of wickedness over the last five years 9/11 barely registers. Beslan was a far worse crime (another false flag operation). And the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon are nothing in comparison to the crimes committed in the Congo and Darfur.

But the latter are crimes largely of French and Chinese instigation so there won't be too much interest in protesting about them here (as these countries fund 'The Stop The War Coalition').
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
You must be aware chaps of the special relationship that The Mail enjoys with Millbank and Vauxhall Cross?

It's extremely unlikely that Hitchens is in denial about 9/11 - he is far too well connected to the grandee, mandarin and spook elite to be ignorant of what is really going on.

But many of you should start to grow up. You are far too idealistic. There's no such thing as a cricket loving democracy. It's a dog eat dog world out there where ALL states do despicable things routinely to protect their national interests.

On the scale of wickedness over the last five years 9/11 barely registers. Beslan was a far worse crime (another false flag operation). And the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon are nothing in comparison to the crimes committed in the Congo and Darfur.

But the latter are crimes largely of French and Chinese instigation so there won't be too much interest in protesting about them here (as these countries fund 'The Stop The War Coalition').


In our defence Pincher, I'd point out firstly that for many the re-open 911 campaign is a first foray into political issues, and secondly the underlying international corporate and military networks that enabled 911 are the politically important aspect.

I was intrigued by your reference to Chinese involvement in Darfur - can you recommend a source to read up on?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, great letter and post. I've just watched Press for Truth and this will certainly recommend this to a large audience over LC2. It is about picking the right material for the right audience but you can give this film to an MP and embarass him.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:
Pincher wrote:
You must be aware chaps of the special relationship that The Mail enjoys with Millbank and Vauxhall Cross?

It's extremely unlikely that Hitchens is in denial about 9/11 - he is far too well connected to the grandee, mandarin and spook elite to be ignorant of what is really going on.

But many of you should start to grow up. You are far too idealistic. There's no such thing as a cricket loving democracy. It's a dog eat dog world out there where ALL states do despicable things routinely to protect their national interests.

On the scale of wickedness over the last five years 9/11 barely registers. Beslan was a far worse crime (another false flag operation). And the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon are nothing in comparison to the crimes committed in the Congo and Darfur.

But the latter are crimes largely of French and Chinese instigation so there won't be too much interest in protesting about them here (as these countries fund 'The Stop The War Coalition').


In our defence Pincher, I'd point out firstly that for many the re-open 911 campaign is a first foray into political issues, and secondly the underlying international corporate and military networks that enabled 911 are the politically important aspect.

I was intrigued by your reference to Chinese involvement in Darfur - can you recommend a source to read up on?


A highly subjective and dare I say it naive political statement Chek. The Hutu's in Rwanda made use of much of the same international networks to murder 800,000 Tutsi's in six weeks. A mere coincidence that France was exploring Lake Kivu's considerable gas reserves at the time.

A mere coincidence too that UK Protest Industries PLC never once ventured on to the streets of London to object.

As for sources on the China-Sudan relationship just google that and, of course, China-Darfur. Off the top of my head I can tell you that China has a 40% stake in the Sudanese oil company extracting the black stuff, consumes 60% of Sudan's oil production, trains and arms the Sudanese army and its militias (from its own puirpose built factory outside Khartoum) and opposes the introduction of UN sanctions against the Sudanese government (along with er...France). How much more do you need to know?

One other thing - the Darfur region is believed to contain Africa's largest reserves of oil (which is why Sudan's mainly Arab leadership wants to ethnically cleanse the area of its BLACK inhabitants).
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chek
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are depressingly bad all over. Everywhere, fragile human beings are being damaged and brutalised on so many levels.
But ya have to start somewhere.
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iro
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can't come across as superior if you want to convince someone of something they are likely to resist.

actions like this only serve to polarise people and drive would be defactors further from the nineleven movement. It's time to stop spamming these people and harassing them - some people will never come on board, just don't waste your time or effort on them.

on the other hand - goreat letter as a response john - although i expect it will end up in the spam bin also

hitchens is an idiot. no loss
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John White
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like a response from Hitchens obviously, but it's not the only benefit of writing it: its got some good ideas flowing and shown by example too

I cant think of a better film than "Pressfortruth" for a Daily Mail audience: its great, it works for everyone

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Pincher
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:
Things are depressingly bad all over. Everywhere, fragile human beings are being damaged and brutalised on so many levels.
But ya have to start somewhere.


My question to you then is where do you start? Remember that the agenda of UK Protest Industries PLC is largely set and funded from overseas. Ordinary members of this movement may think of themselves as independently minded when in reality they are the unwitting dupes of foreign powers even more unscrupulous than the USA and UK.

Last Saturday's march in Manchester was a case in point. Reports stated there were between 20-40,000 protesting against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (pretty good for a demo in the provinces). All the usual suspect organisations were there.

Yet a few days earlier you could have done a head count in a couple of minutes of the real live victims and VSO types huddled outside the Sudanese embassy. No CND, no Respect, no TUC, no trots, no anarchists for an event that was well publicised around the world. And their calculating cynicism is evident whenever Africa is discussed.

Before you dance to the piper find out first who's calling his tune...
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