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Shayler Talks 911 on Sky News
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rodin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lifeinthed wrote:
I'll probably get criticised and accused for having just signed up but... I wanted to add my support here for commanderson and others. We have to hold our 9/11 "prophets" up to the same scrutiny that they tell us we should use on others. They taught us to not blindly trust what we're told anymore and be suspicious of all the message-bearers, and the practice of these newfound scrutinizing abilities should start with (or at least include heavily at some point) they themselves! I find myself falling for it all the time all over again. I have to pull myself back for a moment and have a little internal dialogue telling myself not to get too carried away with any one particular truth seeker's viewpoints. After all what's the difference between trusting the mainstream media like it was the beacon of all hope, and doing the same thing with one of our "prophets"? If I distrusted the mainstream source because I knew they were telling lies, does that mean that the prophet (sorry, can't be bothered finding a better word) is telling the truth and shouldn't be questioned too? Wouldn't doing that mean that I hadn't learnt anything from all this? We all know that deploying counter-intelligence agents is well within the grasp of the people we're fighting, and you can bet your house that when these people come they'll be disguised as our best friends. So not only is it reasonable to have doubts about David Shayler, especially considering his background, it's bloody essential if we're ever going to have a chance of winning this. They're a potential bullet in the whole movements head (well, leg maybe) if there's any truth to the suspicions, and we're talking about a movement trying to move humanity away from longlasting enslavement, tyranny, whatever, this is pretty bloody serious stuff, so people who bring it up shouldn't just be laughed down or insulted away on here. So no offence to Annie or David or anyone, but this cause is of such massive importance that you're probably going to be thoroughly grilled at the first signs of anything dodgy.

Admittedly this kind of thinking doesn't leave much room for trusting anyone ultimately... I'm probably about 2½ steps short of full-on tinfoil hat paranoia, shows how messed up these evil f*ckers have made this world. But anyway, just my tuppence worth.


I only read the first 2 lines & I knew you were one of us

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

commanderson wrote:
Annie wrote:


You may well have been looking at the whole 911 issue for years, but forgive me for being slightly suspicious of someone who appears on the forum a mere week ago, and boldly states that Shayler suddenly seized on the 911 campaign. What does that say about you?

Regards

Annie


heres where I took it that you were alluding, to me being a disinfo agent, shill, whatever, sorry I should not have said 'called' that was me being flippant, prole 'called' me an agent, you allude to it (as I see it), I made this clearer in another post. I too wish to conduct a civil debate here, and belive you have done so without namecalling so I commend you for that.
Do you have any responses for Blacksheep, or to the O'Harra article?

peace!


Shhh! Don't say 'shill'. And don't mention the Holocaust victim's site www.judicial-inc.biz

limits to free speech = no free speech.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dh wrote:
By their deeds shall you know them
You have an obsessive need to undermine Shayler and Machon
I cant really be bothered with your obsession
Let alone want to meet you
Only proper spooks have this obsessive need to prove their point.
You are not only scum but pure poison
Your sort seek to derail the whole dissident movement with your methods
Delineated elsewhere here


One MO of the Shhhh.... you know what... is the persistent use of abusive language. Others may be found here...

http://www.nolajbs.net/forum/index.php?topic=108.0

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="prole art threat"][quote="commanderson"]
Annie wrote:


This guy is a fukking menace.


I refer the honorable member to the post I made previously

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Commanderson Reply with quote

Snowygrouch wrote:
Commanderson.

You're rumbled mate.

Wink


WOW 3 shills in a row knocked down. Thats fast even for me

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBlacksheep wrote:
THETRUTHWILLSETU3 wrote:
TheBlacksheep wrote:
THETRUTHWILLSETU3 wrote:

The fact is there is substantial evidence that were no planes.

- Not one clear image showing the livery of the plane (anywhere)
- Plane melted into building
- No wreckage bouncing off building
- no black boxes
- no air crash investigation
- no clearly identifiable wreckage
- plane was travelling too fast
- eye witnesses saying it was just an explosion
- film footage invariably zooming out at the critical moment
- film footage missing impact altogether
- one of the twin towers planes not scheduled to fly that day
- footage showing bits of plane missing (in flight)
- delay in explosion after impact
- slow motion footage showing no entrance hole

No doubt with all this information available David has concluded that although there were 4 alleged planes that day - in reality there were zilch.


Do you think any of this posted above is EVIDENCE that no plane hit the towers??

3/4 black boxes were found according to the firefighters.


The black boxes - don't think so - pure speculation and no substance



Agree its firefighter speculation...

but your EVIDENCE above opinion and speculation.

- Livery. Just because a shot doesnt exist, it doesnt mean the livery doesnt exist.
- Melting. Opinion.
- Bouncing. Opinion. It wouldnt bounce at 3-500mph.
- Air crash. Military took over (some would argue in the morning)
- wreckage. Hard to see inside building.
- Too fast. WHAT?
- Eyewitness also said they saw a plane.
- because the camera zoomed out, it must be no plane...

None of this is evidence!!


I cannot believe the NPT ever got traction. There is amateur footage clearly showing plane. Including an engine flying out the other side in a parabolic arc down. This NPT nonsense is designed to waste your time and by the Jolly Roger it has

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: It strikes me Reply with quote

Abandoned Ego wrote:
Why does it strike me, that suddenly we have a new crowd of folks on this board, a few of whom are rearing their ugly head repeatedly on this thread, who's goal it would appear would be clearly to create rifts within this movement.

Strange days indeed.

Strikes me that people are getting rather upset with this movement, and are shamelessly attempting to pick at the lynchpins.

Ask them about their position on 9/11 and "theyre with us" - only to then proceed with any amount of divisive nonsense.

Commanderson aint the only one rumbled. Scarlett O hara, and the guy with the reversed keyboard strike me as distinctly odd too.

I just wonder if we will see them introduce themselves at any of the 9/11 events ? Theyre all up there gang. Starting Thursday in Lancaster.

Heres the deal. 9/11 was an inside Job. David and Annie agree. they are here there and everywhere trying to make this FACT public knowledge.

I find it reprehensible therefore that a group of Johnny come latelys who claim to be on our side are attempting to precipitate nothing but division amidst some of the founder members.

Pyioutr ; If you spent half as long picking the faults in the official story of 9/11 as you have in nitpicking from the midst of Annie and Davids book, perhaps you might help this movement as opposed to striking me for one as little less than a nuisance.

Go do it floyd. As a "truthseeker" why not tell us something about 9/11 that might be of use, instead of this microscopic nitpicking of Spies, Lies and Whistleblowers

Or is 9/11 not quite as much of a "specialist" subject to you ?


yes my friend, but who's inside job?

http://www.nolajbs.net/forum/index.php?topic=6891.0

and how did they do it?

http://www.nolajbs.net/forum/index.php?topic=7043.0

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
Yawn...

Gawd can we just lock this thread as I don't care what David said anymore.


No. Four.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poiuytr wrote:
Thank you.

For the people not versed in the DUI scandal,the american and british gouvernements to this day deny DUI ammunitions are harmfull to populations or soldiers.

If ever a governement scientific study proves DUI causes radiation poisonning,both governements will face compensation lawsuits from veterans and iraqi that will bankrupt their treasaury in a split second.

Not to say the end of the war.

How's that for a swell of an idea,Annie ??


Their treasuries are already bankrupted and we are living on borrowed timoney.

Nice collection of shills here, eh, swearing away, personal insults flying. Shillwatch is getting easier as the clever tribe seem rather inflexible while we sharpen our powers of discerment.

Some say DU 'sickness' is cover for the use of real nuclear weapons. Certainly a variant of the nuke was used @ WTC. I think they come in all sizes now

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

utopiated wrote:
commanderson wrote:

This is my stance, but I'm afraid poiuytr will have to battle all these indignant handmaids solo for a while


<snipped>

'handmaids solo' ? You mean Han Solo from Star Wars - because this seems to be where you're at - fighting the forces from behind your screen with your friend poiuytr. Poiutry is probably just you re-signing in having learned what an anonymous proxy is.

As admirable as your advice is to everyone it really would go down better if you referenced some longer term research and/or investigation you've done in this area or wider, online or otherwise that lead you to these conclusions. Anyone can pull a timeline together or jump on the lastest paranoid ramblings about traitors in the movement.

Have a good Xmess anyway.


X marks you out

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=92585

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rodin wrote:


Some say DU 'sickness' is cover for the use of real nuclear weapons. Certainly a variant of the nuke was used @ WTC. I think they come in all sizes now


Depleted uranium is the end product of nuclear reactors:gouvernements have realised it is way cheaper to include them in shells and armoured tanks than to process tham for safe storage.

Do a google search about Doug Rokke:he's a former military doctor that was assigned by general Shwarzkopf to manage the radiation and contamination problem during desert storm;guess what,ha said it was impossible.

He's gone down himself with radiation pôisonning,and now is touring the world to expose the scandal.

I've made a thread asking why David and Annie don't expose the DU scandal,especially since it has the potential to awaken the military about what the governement is doing to their health;it could end the war (David and Annie were part of the stop the war mouvement)

Well,moderators took my thread down without any explanation.

anyway,welcome to this thread
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually replied to about 2 or 3 times as many posts as showed up here by was probably moving on before the posts were completed. Probably just as well...

If you think this thread should be closed just say <g>

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poiuytr wrote:
rodin wrote:


Some say DU 'sickness' is cover for the use of real nuclear weapons. Certainly a variant of the nuke was used @ WTC. I think they come in all sizes now


Depleted uranium is the end product of nuclear reactors:gouvernements have realised it is way cheaper to include them in shells and armoured tanks than to process tham for safe storage.

Do a google search about Doug Rokke:he's a former military doctor that was assigned by general Shwarzkopf to manage the radiation and contamination problem during desert storm;guess what,ha said it was impossible.

He's gone down himself with radiation pôisonning,and now is touring the world to expose the scandal.

I've made a thread asking why David and Annie don't expose the DU scandal,especially since it has the potential to awaken the military about what the governement is doing to their health;it could end the war (David and Annie were part of the stop the war mouvement)

Well,moderators took my thread down without any explanation.

anyway,welcome to this thread


Yeah. We know. Google 'Starstika' DUst is the track. I think my first post was around page 6...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've made a thread asking why David and Annie don't expose the DU scandal,especially since it has the potential to awaken the military about what the governement is doing to their health;it could end the war (David and Annie were part of the stop the war mouvement)

Well,moderators took my thread down without any explanation


Can't speak for a thread being removed myself as i've been away from the site for several days and am still "catching up", but as a question:

Quote:
DU scandal...could end the war


Why?

I can't help feeling your selling yourself a line here, that some sort of self-interest based "awakening" over DU is going to see the military refusing orders. Its public knowledge that the entire War is a lie and a sham on WMD's alone, and thats not had any notable effect. The troops dont seem to particularily give a * about killing 700,000 Iraqi's and Afghani's either directly or indirectly, they certainly don't care about the long term blighting of the landscape, after all DU was used in Gulf 1 yet here it is being used again 15 years later with no particular sign of a sudden conscience. Given the required retardation of empathy needed to take any part in such actions, would the troops even be able to recognise the reality of the DU threat to themselves, baring a small, questioning and easily sidelined minority?

Furthermore, there are a limitless number of issues that I hold to be important and worthy of campaigning: but I dont even come close to campaigning on them all: if i dont expect that of myself, why should I expect it of Dave Shayler or Annie Machon? I'm not a hypocrite: we pick an issue or a core of issues make a stand and do what we can to make a difference: they made the same choice I made: to tackle the heart of the enitire "War on Terror" mess and work to pawn the myth that is the key to the whole manipulation the PTB are pulling on us frim the start of this millenium: the myth that some guys in a cave pulled off 9/11, and that this story justifies a "clash of civilisations"

Of course, any half competant search of my posts will show I concur with the positions stated here critiquing "no Planes": its the weakest of theories. But the reasons why it is taken up run deep: as do the reasons why the public is largely content to remain lethargic and apathetic whilst freedom is demolished under their very nose. I consider it a worthwhile endevour to explore both more in the days and weeks ahead: but I'm not going to jump through hoops suspecting Dave Shayler or Annie Machon of being anything else than themselves: Truth is larger than any of us, and to consider differently is to consider the worth of Truth to be weak. As much as I disagree with Shayler on "no Planes", I can handle a difference of opinion without my world collapsing, especialy when I concur with the vast majority of his stated views on 9/11

And Rodin: Alex Jones Vice President to a Hilary Clinton Presidency? I hardly think so!

Jones clearly understands "left" and "right" are fake distinctions providing the distraction of Public Theatre from the ongoing control of an overall unified Elite: You apparently don't

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="John White"]
Quote:


And Rodin: Alex Jones Vice President to a Hilary Clinton Presidency? I hardly think so!

Jones clearly understands "left" and "right" are fake distinctions providing the distraction of Public Theatre from the ongoing control of an overall unified Elite: You apparently don't


Thought provoking tho? Jones is a Zionist gatekeeper. Hilary is a Jew and a Zionist. Get up to speed. Rolling Eyes

Only 'anti Zionist' story he ever carried was the specially made silly one about the conversation in Hebrew - which is part of a back cover operation for the nabbing of the 5 dancing Israelis. Jones (S) trying to keep nukes out of the picture. And this is why

http://www.contrarianthinker.com/M4.htm

Wouldn't look good, WOOD it?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.


This thread is dangerous to liars. This is a truth campaign. It is not a truth movement or ideology. If it wakens people up to MOSSAD's nuclear attack on America (with the help of their well-placed US operatives) so much the better.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="rodin"]
John White wrote:
Quote:


And Rodin: Alex Jones Vice President to a Hilary Clinton Presidency? I hardly think so!

Jones clearly understands "left" and "right" are fake distinctions providing the distraction of Public Theatre from the ongoing control of an overall unified Elite: You apparently don't


Thought provoking tho? Jones is a Zionist gatekeeper. Hilary is a Jew and a Zionist. Get up to speed. Rolling Eyes

Only 'anti Zionist' story he ever carried was the specially made silly one about the conversation in Hebrew - which is part of a back cover operation for the nabbing of the 5 dancing Israelis. Jones (S) trying to keep nukes out of the picture. And this is why

http://www.contrarianthinker.com/M4.htm

Wouldn't look good, WOOD it?


You quote my point, yet ignore it: and mistake a finger for the entire of the hand

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.


Shayler appears on the MSM and dicusses his views on 9/11: discussion on this forum is an inevitable result. If people don't trust him they dont trust him, but I'm not going to start deleting views just becuase I dont agree with them. There'd be nothing left of critics corner if I did. If people can't make their own minds up, its ultimately futile to try and influence them anyway, as is the idea that a public forum can be managed to remain "presentable" to a coherant campaign without a policy of severe restriction of what can and cannot be discussed. Although opinions on this thread run strong, they are also still within the realms of reasonable debate

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="John White"][quote="rodin"]
John White wrote:
Quote:


And Rodin: Alex Jones Vice President to a Hilary Clinton Presidency? I hardly think so!

Jones clearly understands "left" and "right" are fake distinctions providing the distraction of Public Theatre from the ongoing control of an overall unified Elite: You apparently don't


You quote my point, yet ignore it: and mistake a finger for the entire of the hand


You think I didn't get thru the 'left and right fake distinctions' gate a long time ago?

Jones is whatever it takes to become a leader of the alternative movement. The other side give us our heroes. He has been groomed for political power. It may not pan out that way, but if 911-gate takes down the Bush admin I can see him being feted as a new breed of politician. Maybe Hilary will get dumped, we will see. I think Alex is going to 'save' Amuka from 'Police State'. Watch him work out a second 'New Deal' once the second Great Depression gets fully underway.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.


Shayler appears on the MSM and dicusses his views on 9/11: discussion on this forum is an inevitable result. If people don't trust him they dont trust him, but I'm not going to start deleting views just becuase I dont agree with them. There'd be nothing left of critics corner if I did. If people can't make their own minds up, its ultimately futile to try and influence them anyway, as is the idea that a public forum can be managed to remain "presentable" to a coherant campaign without a policy of severe restriction of what can and cannot be discussed. Although opinions on this thread run strong, they are also still within the realms of reasonable debate


limited freedom of speech = no freedom of speech. Shayler used to be someone I followed, and I thought when the SKY piece started we were really going somewhere. I was quite excited. Certainly chums on the GIM board thought his interview was hot. But I saw things I didn't like. Perhaps my fears will be assuaged by David in due course. We need him really.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rodin wrote:
John White wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.


Shayler appears on the MSM and dicusses his views on 9/11: discussion on this forum is an inevitable result. If people don't trust him they dont trust him, but I'm not going to start deleting views just becuase I dont agree with them. There'd be nothing left of critics corner if I did. If people can't make their own minds up, its ultimately futile to try and influence them anyway, as is the idea that a public forum can be managed to remain "presentable" to a coherant campaign without a policy of severe restriction of what can and cannot be discussed. Although opinions on this thread run strong, they are also still within the realms of reasonable debate


limited freedom of speech = no freedom of speech. Shayler used to be someone I followed, and I thought when the SKY piece started we were really going somewhere. I was quite excited. Certainly chums on the GIM board thought his interview was hot. But I saw things I didn't like. Perhaps my fears will be assuaged by David in due course. We need him really.


And how do you propose David can assuage your fears, exactly?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:


Quote:
DU scandal...could end the war


Why?

I can't help feeling your selling yourself a line here, that some sort of self-interest based "awakening" over DU is going to see the military refusing orders. Its public knowledge that the entire War is a lie and a sham on WMD's alone, and thats not had any notable effect. The troops dont seem to particularily give a * about killing 700,000 Iraqi's and Afghani's either directly or indirectly, they certainly don't care about the long term blighting of the landscape, after all DU was used in Gulf 1 yet here it is being used again 15 years later with no particular sign of a sudden conscience. Given the required retardation of empathy needed to take any part in such actions, would the troops even be able to recognise the reality of the DU threat to themselves, baring a small, questioning and easily sidelined minority?



It is true the majority of military know the war on terror is bogus;furthermore they are not fighting a regular army,but an urban guerrilla,able to inflict heavy damage and able to strike by surprise at any moment and any place.

This isn't what they bargained for;they resent their mission,but somehow carry on with the orders because they see no evident legal ground that would enable them to disobey.

The DU scandal carry that potential; if i was a recruit and heard whistleblowers on the news along with scientists and victims of DU poisoning start accusing the governement on the grounds of the geneva conventions,it might not translate directly in me refusing to obey,but it would start a thinking process,fueled by the realisation i wouldn't receive ,like so many stricken soldiers before me,any medical cover if it hapened to me.

Radiation causes cancer;what good is it to be able to go to college/be a patriot if you are destined to die a slowly painfull death rejected by the very same administration you are serving ?


If David Ray Griffin,Jim Fetzer,Steven Jones and every other proeminent truth seeker organise their efforts and start disseminating the facts and call for the military to refuse obeying illegal orders,if they provide them with the arguments they can use to question authority and inform in the same manner the civilians,i think the domino effect will be more consequent than the actual awareness that doesn't translate in any effective actions.

And I doubt very much the army would be able to bring in more recruits if this DU stuff gets any traction.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prole art threat wrote:
rodin wrote:
John White wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
There is a determined team here keeping all this pointless and damaging cr*p at the top of the 'Latest Topics' list. Moderators...please remove this thread.


Shayler appears on the MSM and dicusses his views on 9/11: discussion on this forum is an inevitable result. If people don't trust him they dont trust him, but I'm not going to start deleting views just becuase I dont agree with them. There'd be nothing left of critics corner if I did. If people can't make their own minds up, its ultimately futile to try and influence them anyway, as is the idea that a public forum can be managed to remain "presentable" to a coherant campaign without a policy of severe restriction of what can and cannot be discussed. Although opinions on this thread run strong, they are also still within the realms of reasonable debate


limited freedom of speech = no freedom of speech. Shayler used to be someone I followed, and I thought when the SKY piece started we were really going somewhere. I was quite excited. Certainly chums on the GIM board thought his interview was hot. But I saw things I didn't like. Perhaps my fears will be assuaged by David in due course. We need him really.


And how do you propose David can assuage your fears, exactly?


Your previous posts fit shill criteria so that is what you are. But to answer your questions

Re David assuaging my fears. Saying he was wrong about the NPT would be a start. It certainly was not blue screen. Plane was shot by amateurs as well as MSM. Hologram invokes wildly outre technology. In bright sunlight? You can create a light image in the dark by projection. You cannot create a dark image in the light by similar. The reality is - the videos were grainy digital and the plane shape dropped out because of v low resolution of detail. It's a digital effect.

I give him some credit for bringing up MOSSAD presence @ 911. All is not lost.

Talking of dark light... Did you know that microwaves can rapidly superheat steel from the inside? Nuclear enhanced radiation weapons were used. That's why we see cars on fire in paper-strewn streets lined with unharmed trees on 911. That was the 'event' MOSSAD were there to document. Did they do it too, do you think? Or are the Yanks getting into the False Flag business too?

Did my answer satisfy you sir?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've split a whole bunch of pointless "shill calling" posts off this topic and shunted them down into Critics Corner. Pack it in or any other "Ooo's a shill" posts will be joining it. My advice if called a shill by silly people:

Ignore it: and them

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5970&start=0&postday s=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:
I've split a whole bunch of pointless "shill calling" posts off this topic and shunted them down into Critics Corner. Pack it in or any other "Ooo's a shill" posts will be joining it. My advice if called a shill by silly people:

Ignore it: and them

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5970&start=0&postday s=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


I am sure I made a few more shillegations earlier John if you want to do a really thorough purge.

You also made a comment that I could not see that left and right were fake opposites. This was where I was speculating we might see a 911-gate taking down the Republicans, with Hilary Clinton and Alex Jones stepping in to handle the ensuing constitutional crisis.

Not so.

I suspect left and right, black and white, mainstream and alternative, our leaders are given to us. They give us our heroes. If they are not given to us they are got at ASAP. This would be logical for the Establishment wouldn't you say?

OK, now that we are agreed on that (I hope), which is it in David's case? If D has been got at (sold the ludicrous NPT theory) then we can put that right, find out who directed this disinfo at him, and check out what other nonsense that person or group have been up to. If he has not been got at, but is a plant, then at what stage do we want to expose this? Now or later? Do we let him publicise the crimes of 911, 77, and all the other curiously catchy odd-number events first, then depose and expose him @ the last minute, or do we try to set our house in order now?

FWIW I am leaning towards the idea David has been deliberately misled. I don't think the Establishment WOULD set up an ex MI5 officer to be our 'Alex Jones'- for the very reason it would be an obvious ask was he a double agent? Also, the NPT actually discredits him - again not what you would do to a chosen leader of the alternative side. David spouting NPT and a few other dangerously weird ideas (which of course new agers and audience plants will egg him on in doing) will devalue the veracity of what he has come to represent. Of course, it's his choice what he says and believes in. Myself - I think belief is the enemy of truth. Testing should never stop.

I have stronger reasons to suspect the Jones' were set up to gatekeep. Of course I don't know 4 sure. But take the tower explosions for example. The amount of thermate or similar required to produce the effects measured (pulverisation, shooting debris & dust outwards and upwards) is stupidly huge. Plus if thermate did do it, WHERE WERE THE FLAMES?

There is only one way to achieve what we saw IMO. Matter being converted into energy. How it was achieved is where I focussed some time and energy - I am still working on it - and as I said in a post now confined to the shilly section Room 101...

Quote:
'I am debating the microwave bomb theory on this thread. As you can see from the amount of scientific research and analysis I have done, I am a genuine researcher.'

http://www.nolajbs.net/forum/index.php?topic=7043.0


WTC7 is a whole nother issue. It did NOT explode. It collapsed. Classic thermite op - no need for the nuke there (not saying there wasn't, just no need)

Finally, who are this 'Establishment'

There is overwhelming Jewish control of MSM information and intelligence gathering. Israelis, not Arabs, were caught red handed on 911. We are currently fighting a war in Isreal's best interests. Rabbi Dov Zakheim disappeared 2.3 trillion dollars from the Pentagon budget leading up to 911. Rumsfeld annouces this on 910 despite the fact that bad news always waits 'til Friday. Michael Chertoff, another Israeli, is in charge of Homeland Security (doesn't the word 'Homeland' give you the creeps? Larry 'pull it' Silverstein who make a killing out of WTC meets every week with Ben Nethenyahu - he who was in the vicinity of Tavistock Sq on 7/7. He who said 911 was 'very good for Israel.' You see, like the sh***s on this forum, they can't help themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff
http://judicial-inc.biz/Dov_Zakheim_Fl_77.htm

Let us expose 911 and 77 and more importantly the 'dark actors' behind it all once an for all. Who do YOU think this 'Establishment' are? Scotsman readers are more discerning than most...

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=13&id=1688672006

Marigold - he's one of them too. It's a small world

Appendicitis

Further Googling - the Rothschilds, counterfieting for war, the CIA, drugs. Jews, pornography, drugs, Google, Wikipedia, banking, Russian Oligarchs, false flag terror... but you guys and gals know all this, right?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodin: re left/right paradigm: I used the word apparently: this word was deliberately chosen to indicate that I am not infallibly psychic and can be considered a debating invitation to explain more: though the suggestion that Alex Jones will end up as Hilary clinton's Vice President suggests at the least that you don't consider Jones sincere in his views about the system

Re: cleaning up every instance of people calling each other "shills": I have neither the time or the inclination: but I will split off long runs of shill accusation stupidness from threads when i come across them

Generaly speaking i'm minded to agree with your view that Shayler is not knowingly acting as a dis-information agent. However, I also consider him to be a human being, and therefore quite capable of simply misleading himself. I definately do NOT view him as any kind of leader for this movement: but then, I consider myself my own leader in all aspects of life, at least where-ever practicable, so i'm hardly likely to. I understand why others might though

The simple facts, as I see them, are that Shayler has been selected by the system as someone the system is prepared to put on the MSM, entirely down to his personal life story, and like many others, Shayler is simply riding the tiger for what it is worth and doing the best he can with it. Maybe time will judge his performance in that harshly, maybe not, but to over focus on it would be to distract myself from doing the best I can with the time available to me: which is all any of us really have

Quote:
Let us expose 911 and 77 and more importantly the 'dark actors' behind it all once an for all. Who do YOU think this 'Establishment' are? Scotsman readers are more discerning than most...


Sure. As for the question, honestly?

Bloodline families and their chosen cronies all the way back through the mists of time to Babylon. They are no one grouping or section of the worlds population but the state of mind they represent is assuredly everywhere: the "fight" we "fight" is to transcend that way of thinking within ourselves and become better human beings, and thus transform our society

Quote:
Further Googling - the Rothschilds, counterfieting for war, the CIA, drugs. Jews, pornography, drugs, Google, Wikipedia, banking, Russian Oligarchs, false flag terror... but you guys and gals know all this, right?


By and large, yes "we" do: though it is the position of this site that only so much of that is appropriate to be discussed in detail here, given this forum's specific focus. Visit Illusions or a similar site to take conversation anywhere... and thats an invitation if you like

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'Bloodline families and their chosen cronies all the way back through the mists of time to Babylon. They are no one grouping or section of the worlds population but the state of mind they represent is assuredly everywhere: the "fight" we "fight" is to transcend that way of thinking within ourselves and become better human beings, and thus transform our society'


So I read. Alan Watt is interesting on that score. But ever since Meyer Amschell adopted the name Rothschild a clear lineage can be tracked all the way to the creation of Zionism and Israel itself. A massive dark undertaking that beggars belief in its longevity, audacity, scope etc. When R dynasty is also behind the money system we use today IMO we send the cops round to his estate & round them up for questioning. Too late to fix Babylon now...

To think of highest level criminality as being a baton passed down thru the ages is one thing. To do nothing about it is another. Without leaders these people could not pull off their scam. A free internetocracy is the future. Devolved power. Gotta be betta than the endgame in play now?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Shayler is into Sumerian tablets and the like and this thread is about him so I hope this is not off topic.

We must not push the idea of an ancient race of superbeings onto exposing the crime of 911. This came up in the Leeds video (I think it was). I cringed.

To this whole issue of 'advanced civilisation behind it all etc' consider this.

The 'secret' knowledge possessed by the masons/high priests/druids etc. How much more advanced was it than the current state of knowledge? The answer, from all the evidence I have seen, is not a lot. No more than insiders should have. So if THEIR tech is only just A BIT AHEAD of OUR tech, what does that say? It says they are just front-running us, not handing down scraps of secret esoteric knowledge light years ahead of what we know. Occam's razor. Occult stories, religions, all thet mumbo jumbo. Best explanation is always a psyop. I mean, you can see what stage magicians and hypnotists can do for yourselves. Would that in itself not account for 100% of the supernatural/occult? Ghosts as auto-suggestion or beings from another dimension? Plane or NPT?

I must go now for my tea.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:
I've split a whole bunch of pointless "shill calling" posts off this topic and shunted them down into Critics Corner. Pack it in or any other "Ooo's a shill" posts will be joining it. My advice if called a shill by silly people:

Ignore it: and them

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5970&start=0&postday s=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


Good Job!
I'll defend the free right of anyone to be saying what they like about a situation, but the shill slinging in this forum, and particulary on this thread, is reaching ridiculious levels. This may be inevitable because the main body of the thread is now to investagate and discuss David Shaylers credability as a genuine campaigner for 9/11 truth in the wake of his initially enlightening and energising appearance on Sky news, which ended in divsive discrediting foolishness. I and others have been asking why, this is legit. To be just calling any poster a shill, because they ask these questions, or because they back David up, is just infantile, and people on both sides of this debate are guilty of it.
I think if peoples style of argument, and discussion fudging reveals they may have ulterior motives, this will be evident to all discerning readers and posters, so the accusations of shillery are unecesary- people can work it out for themselves. Cool
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