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Communism through environmentalism.
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uselesseater
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Communism through environmentalism. Reply with quote

Woe to ye wicked consumers of the sacred fruits of the earth godess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtml

Seriousley though. When environmentalism first reared it's horned head, Communists were rubbing their hands together with glee saying that this would bring society nearer to communism than the peace movement ever could.

In the light of the proposed 'green taxes' (corporate welfare) independence will become a luxury of those who can afford it while serfs such as you and I will live communaly.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We merely play at environmentalism, things should be much much tougher.

I know we don't like the big brother/new world order thing, but there are levels by which this would be the only way forward and managed properly, not by those wishing to capitalize, it is our only option.

People aren't prepared to stop buying 'stuff'. The more we manufacture, the more we take from the planet.

There should be a 'green police force', one with ultimate power. In no particular order;

No family should be allowed more than two children. Compulsary abortions past your quota.

Everyone should be given 10 plastic bags at birth and that would be your lot.

Rubbish such as outdoor Christmas lights should be banned. Or anyone caught using them would be fined a couple of grand.

Fireworks should be banned, anyone setting them off would be imprisoned for 3 months.

Vehicles found chucking out excess emmissions should be instantly removed from the road and destroyed (the driver could get out first though).

All the packing that 'stuff' comes in should be dramatically reduced. My mate runs a chain of health stores and every Monday following deliveries you should see the mountain of cardboard, poly chips and plastic he has to then deal with.

This of course is just a tiny tiny tip of a huge iceberg and barely brushes the surface. Who cares if jobs suffer or people are compromised - the planet is at stake not a few zeros on a bank balance. We need to stop and take stock.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry Tele these measures will come,and more besides.

Problem-reaction-solution is a continual process.

Hail to the god of environ-mentalism, Al Gore only wants what is best for
the planet,obviously!
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uselesseater
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tele, add to that 90% tax rates, global one child policy and reduction in population to 500,000 through whatever means you like and that is one aspect the New world Order minus the extreme sexual depravity by the elite against anyone they like and the elevation of hedonism to an artform.

Joking aside.

If the establishment so wished they could solve virtualy all these supposed environmental problems simply by using the sophisticated mind programming techniques which have engraned the consumer culture so deeply. A few bill boards with a big titted blonde draped across the bonnet of a G Wiz would do wonders. Such is the power of the mass media that if they so wished they could make eating poo trendy and 20% would do it. But no, the only way is more tax for us sinners. Yes environmentalism is a religion.

The only environmental issues we hear about are ones which can be blamed on us and our sinful selfish nature. We know all about carbon footprints but very little about the horrendous stuff dumped into the sea by industry and the military. We need to eliminate 350,000 people a day but it's OK for the UK/US military to radiate an entire region which ends up blowing over here too. It's humans that are the evil scourge of this planet but it's ok for the US military to dump tonnes of VX biproduct into the sea.

I'm off to get some sack cloth and ashes.


Last edited by uselesseater on Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea that giving a nonsense about pollution, chemical pesticides, waste dumping, the eradication of forests etc is somehow 'wrong' is patently absurd - unless you're more than happy to see the entire planet covered in smog, factory farms and car parks. It's fairly self-evident that if you e.g. chop down trees at a greater rate than they grow, then sooner or later you'll run out of trees. Not to mention all the animals that live in them. I know there's this thing knocking around about global warming allegedly being a con, but that issue itself does not sum up environmentalism.

The real problem is these genuine concerns are easily hijacked so you can play at being 'green' to implement guilt tax. This simply cannot be seen as a government invented problem as governments have spent the last few decades studiously ignoring it. Environmental activists have been subjected to much harassment in the years before this issue got sexy. The FBI even got caught trying to assassinate Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney from Earth First! in 1990 when they took on logging interests. I used to do animal rights stuff (which is closely linked and often interchangeable), and I can assure you it's not what the government wanted you to be doing. The police certainly have more pictures of me than my mum has. And in a variety of scenic locations. And I wasn't hardcore. It's just now they've realised they can con us poor chumps into doing what they want by slapping a green sticker on it.

It is, IMHO, a blag, but one based on selling us the idea that we can fix it by turning off the odd light, getting punished for not being green and paying new invented taxes whilst industry carries on as it always has.
They didn't invent the environmental problem - it's real. The actual blag is they don't really care as long as Bono and Al Gore look credible and they get to cash in.

As for communism, I don't really care. Communism was originally interchangeable with anarchism, it's just a word whose meaning has become corrupted, particularly with the rise of Marxism and the Soviet Union et al with their faux Marxism. I quite like left-anarchist theory. It's often humane and sensible and strives to avoid the appeal to the cruder and more destructive instincts that capitalism indulges in. It's just anarchists that tend to irritate me.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totaly agree the real environmental issues are ignored while the ptb use it to tax and control.

As for communism, I don't want to get into semantics, I just don't want to be a complete slave, paying 70% + tax rates under a system of total government.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just don't want to be a complete slave, paying 70% + tax rates under a system of total government.


Considering the bewildering array of 'hidden' taxes, I sometimes wonder how close we are!

I agree about the semantics bit; I freely concede I'm apt to get rather precious over my beloved 19th/early 20th century forgotten radical chaps with impressive beards.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobbler wrote:
.....
It is, IMHO, a blag, but one based on selling us the idea that we can fix it by turning off the odd light, getting punished for not being green and paying new invented taxes whilst industry carries on as it always has.
They didn't invent the environmental problem - it's real. The actual blag is they don't really care as long as Bono and Al Gore look credible and they get to cash in....


Amen.
I recall a story from way back where one of the early 'Green' politicians (Porritt?) was harranguing Denis Healey(?) about sustainability, the environment etc etc. Healey is supposed to have admitted "What you're saying is completely true, but it would be political suicide to admit it" -- or words to that effect.

And there we have it. Politicians will take up a cause when it's expedient in their eyes. But afaics that might well be too late. Crisis time - when proper environmental limits and controls become 'acceptable' to them and us - could easily be way beyond the point where the damage is irreparable.

The human race is just cr#p at seeing crises looming and acting in a timely fashion. From individual level up to species level.

p.s. maximum 15 guitars for any one household.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO the environment is a lot more rhobust than we are led to believe in general although they also try to make out DU is harmless.

Re tax. Last year 'tax freedom day' was in June i think. Hence, on average, up to that point we were all working for the government.

Coincidentaly, these guys were on the radio today

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uselesseater wrote:
IMHO the environment is a lot more rhobust than we are led to believe in general .....


I'm not sure what that means exactly. The environment isn't solely the issue as it supports all life on earth, we are down to the last few polar bears and pandas due to our encroachment and tinkering. Robust or not, there is point where life cannot be sustained.

Ideally, hundreds of helicopter gunships would patrol the rainforest tree line - anyone seen messing with the trees - instantly machine-gunned, no questions asked.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not sure what that means exactly. The environment isn't solely the issue as it supports all life on earth, we are down to the last few polar bears and pandas due to our encroachment and tinkering. Robust or not, there is point where life cannot be sustained.


Not to mention the impending extinction of orang-utans and probably gorillas too. That some of our closest relatives will die forever in the relentless pursuit of money is pretty unpleasant.
I actually agree with UE in thinking the earth is pretty robust; it's highly unlikely humans could eradicate all life, even with nuclear war. Some species - cockroaches are a fine example - have been around unchanged for literally millions of years and will no doubt see us off. Cockroaches even handle radiation pretty well, so they'd get through nukes ok. It's an apt analogy for contemporary civilisation - cockroaches tend to prosper. However, it's perfectly feasible that we'll make life impossible/pretty unpleasant for humans and most other mammals.
Depleted uranium is a good example - it's just another form of pollution. A by-product of a 'vital industry' - just happens to be the homicide industry. It creates an environmental concern based on its by-product. Government sweeps it under the carpet. People die. Bad luck, peasants. Try not to live in a war zone next time. Qualitatively speaking, it's essentially no different to poor people in Peru getting sick because they happen to live next door to a copper processing plant.
Samuel Epstein reckons the cancer epidemic is largely caused by the sheer volume of synthetic chemicals we're continually exposed to. I don't know if he's right, but the guy's certainly no quack.
Still, if we're lucky, some of us can enjoy the hair-raising future world of shambling mutants and strangely beautiful desolate lunar landscapes we all know and love from sci-fi films. It'll be like watching Barbara Cartland walk on the moon. Forever.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Tele - your new sig doesn't work I'm afraid.
Given my experience of train services, it's an entirely reasonable and commonplace enquiry. The 8 o'clock train could be leaving at any time up until about 10.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Ideally, hundreds of helicopter gunships would patrol the rainforest tree line

That's a lot of pollution tc!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man I have never seen so many confused people.

You guys live in one big paradigm.

Im all for perserving the rainforests and looking after the earth. But not at the sacrifice of a single human being, thats right not one. And if we rely on our totalitarian global elite to do the environment preservation, it will be done in the name of wiping us out or controlling us.

Denial is a painful thing, but please for all our sakes get over it guys becuase there is no such thing and will never be such thing as long as we exist in THIS system.

Patrolling gunships? Harsher, tougher enforcement? Come on Rolling Eyes !

Like ive always said, why do they always punish the consumer. They never punish the car companies that continue to roll out these gas guzzelling behemoths. They never punish oil companies for hamstringing any attempts at developing non-polluting sustainable fuel sources. No its always OUR fault. We are the ones who need to always die or starve or suffer in order to help mother earth.

GEORGIA GUIDE STONES....nuff said.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hazzard wrote:
Man I have never seen so many confused people.

You guys live in one big paradigm.

Im all for perserving the rainforests and looking after the earth. But not at the sacrifice of a single human being, thats right not one. And if we rely on our totalitarian global elite to do the environment preservation, it will be done in the name of wiping us out or controlling us.


My own personal view on this is that human beings are a terrible blight on the planet - we denude an area and then move on to the next. In the short time we have been here, we have contributed nothing by mountains of excrement, made materials that nature has no clue what to do with, wiped out entire species of animals for FUN (the passenger pigeon as an example) and we put nothing back. Man is really a useless piece of rubbish who bases his existence around the ego.

As for the loss of human life, I thought I was very clear about this. The current scenario is that big business is currently doing what they do to make a few people very wealthy - it would take a huge shift in global thinking, but I am in favour of force being used to protect the planet. Think Greenpeace with mini-guns. I am not saying it would be easy - but unless radical and in many ways unpleasant action is taken, then nothing will change.

The logging camps are run by vicious cartels and kill suspicious strangers on-sight. They are worthless, money driven shortsighted bands of uncaring idiots - wipe out the lot - they serve no purpose to mankind.

People have destoyed acres of rainforest in the time I have typed this and for what - McDonald's hamburgers? We have our priorties in totally the wrong place.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote] People have destoyed acres of rainforest in the time I have typed this and for what - McDonald's hamburgers? We have our priorties in totally the wrong place. [quote]

hamburgers come from rainforests? Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
Hazzard wrote:
Man I have never seen so many confused people.

You guys live in one big paradigm.

Im all for perserving the rainforests and looking after the earth. But not at the sacrifice of a single human being, thats right not one. And if we rely on our totalitarian global elite to do the environment preservation, it will be done in the name of wiping us out or controlling us.


My own personal view on this is that human beings are a terrible blight on the planet - we denude an area and then move on to the next. In the short time we have been here, we have contributed nothing by mountains of excrement, made materials that nature has no clue what to do with, wiped out entire species of animals for FUN (the passenger pigeon as an example) and we put nothing back. Man is really a useless piece of rubbish who bases his existence around the ego.

As for the loss of human life, I thought I was very clear about this. The current scenario is that big business is currently doing what they do to make a few people very wealthy - it would take a huge shift in global thinking, but I am in favour of force being used to protect the planet. Think Greenpeace with mini-guns. I am not saying it would be easy - but unless radical and in many ways unpleasant action is taken, then nothing will change.

The logging camps are run by vicious cartels and kill suspicious strangers on-sight. They are worthless, money driven shortsighted bands of uncaring idiots - wipe out the lot - they serve no purpose to mankind.

People have destoyed acres of rainforest in the time I have typed this and for what - McDonald's hamburgers? We have our priorties in totally the wrong place.


i agree with this stance but dont think the manufactorers should'nt get off scott free, we cannot decide what packaging our goods come in, all we can do is boycott products we consider over the top on packaging ect, but if the products with over packaging are bought or not they will still end up in the cycle of waste eventually.

so responsibility is down to both consumers and industries, you carnt place all the blame on one side. the same goes for our way of life.
i didnt make this s**t i was born into it, our goverments could change it but they wont because its all about lining the wealthy fews pockets if it dont fit them it wont happen.

whats cheaper? changing the system or culling the population so you can go on living how you already are but with less effect on the envioriment , because wether anyone likes it or not that is gonna be the deciding factor everytime, no matter how many have to die. unless people grow hearts instead of ego's
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54;

Quote:
hamburgers come from rainforests? Shocked


Yes indeedy. The forest is cleared for grazing, cattle are reared and the meat sold for high st burgers.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i didnt make this s**t i was born into it, our goverments could change it but they wont because its all about lining the wealthy fews pockets if it dont fit them it wont happen.


Well said, Marky.
Unfortunately, future generations will be born into an even bigger nonsense tip.

The basic equation is thus -
humans require food, shelter, amenities and (if life is to be at all enjoyable) recreational outlets. Unfortunatly, the entire economic base is not specifically geared to this goal, rather this it is geared towards allowing a tiny minority to procure vast, totally disproportionate quantities of the above requirements, often leaving huge swathes of the world's population to fight over the table scraps. This madness also leaves a laissez faire attitude to whether the aforementioned peasants end up with toxic waste in their back garden, farms ruined by floods caused by soil erosion and so on. While Bono dons his shades and proclaims his desire to end poverty, it apparently fails to occur to him that he has more cash in the bank than many even in the affluent West earn in a lifetime. The C*nt.
If it earns money, it will be done unless enough plebs get arsey enough.
F*ck the animals - they haven't worked out how to form a pressure group unless some humans lend a hand. Greenwashing is in. It's apparently our fault that ICI, Monsanto, BP, and so on and so forth decided it was cheap'n'cheerful to chuck chemical sludge all over the shop while convincing us we just had to have a new mobile phone every other day or that immaculate, oddly tasteless shrinked wrapped veg doused in poison and shipped from the other side of the planet was a fine idea.

Here's a practical solution to help the environment - make things last.
Build them so they will last.
OK, some items (computers being a biggie) evolve fast. However, take furniture, light bulbs, televisions (yes I know we're going digital soon), even cars.
Many items are produced to fall apart - so you buy another. However, a table - a well-made, solid table, should in theory be able to last, accidents aside, pretty much your lifetime. Seems sensible to me. Except we have MFI and fashion in furniture that deems still functioning items 'tacky' and 'dated'. And of course, people are encouraged to dispose of perfectly good clothes every five minutes because someone, somewhere has decided they're now unacceptable and you'll look a fool unless you follow the herd and toddle of to the shops and purchase a charming new garment made by the slave labour of a child in Indonesia.. Sheer waste.
Unfortunatly, the need for eternal profit and the bizarre logic of eternally increasing 'economic growth' renders a rational approach to civilisation impossible.
Look at renewable energy. Why not add solar panels to the roof of every new house built? Cost a few grand maybe - like you'd notice that on top of current house prices and they'd eventually pay for themselves. No good to Powergen though, is it? If we got all our energy from genuine renewable sources, apart from essential maintenance, how could they give us big bills? It's sheer heresy against Mammon.

The environment is our fault in the same way 'domestic terrorism' is now the responsibility of the 'muslim community'. Same as ever. The rich and powerful crimp off a big nonsense over the peasants heads and then complain they've made the place smell.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, I wont have a bad word said about MFI!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Damn, I wont have a bad word said about MFI!


Well, if that's to your taste, I assume you'll be getting your skates on for the inevitable new years ritual.

http://www.mfi.co.uk/mfi/default.asp?Affiliate=google_mfi

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
marky 54;

Quote:
hamburgers come from rainforests? Shocked


Yes indeedy. The forest is cleared for grazing, cattle are reared and the meat sold for high st burgers.


ah now i see the logic Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:
marky 54;

Quote:
hamburgers come from rainforests? Shocked


Yes indeedy. The forest is cleared for grazing, cattle are reared and the meat sold for high st burgers.


ah now i see the logic Smile


And rainforest "soil" is extremely thin, so once the tree cover is gone it pretty soon becomes infertile and useless for a long time. So it's a double-whammy of stupidity. Major damage, minor return.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobbler wrote:
Quote:
Damn, I wont have a bad word said about MFI!


Well, if that's to your taste, I assume you'll be getting your skates on for the inevitable new years ritual.

http://www.mfi.co.uk/mfi/default.asp?Affiliate=google_mfi


Not quite, when I said I wont have a bad word said against MFI, I much prefer paragraphs, something marky is becoming proficient in producing.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
telecasterisation wrote:
marky 54;

Quote:
hamburgers come from rainforests? Shocked


Yes indeedy. The forest is cleared for grazing, cattle are reared and the meat sold for high st burgers.



TBF, since Macdonalds got walloped by the Green Lobby and now only buys beef raised sustainably, the majority of deforestation in the amazon is taking place so people can plant more soya. Yup, vegetarians are now killing the planet! Hows THAT for irony!
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/soya-blazes-through-the-a mazon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kc;

Quote:
TBF, since Macdonalds got walloped by the Green Lobby and now only buys beef raised sustainably, the majority of deforestation in the amazon is taking place so people can plant more soya. Yup, vegetarians are now killing the planet! Hows THAT for irony!


TBF? That is hardly a fair statement - those who do not consume cow's milk have no say as to the origins of any product they purchase. Of course, they could simply return to the horrific and cruel products produced by the dairy industry, that in turn would use a much larger percentage of land per cow per pint.

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blackcat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soya is used as an animal feed and many vegetarians do not eat soya products anyway. I think you are misunderstanding the situation if you believe growing crops, instead of keeping livestock to slaughter for food, is going to be worse for the planet. The former is a much more efficient use of land. It is unnecessary to denude the rainforests for either soya or cattle. Remember it is not so long ago that in Europe we had beef mountains and butter mountains and were ploughing crops in to the land, and now we are paying farmers a fortune to do nothing (set-aside) in order to avoid the same. Nothing changes. Landowners were burning crops in the field while people starved in England in the early nineteenth century and they did so to try to keep prices high. They believe in "market forces" only when it suits them. They are driven by profit and greed and there is no need for any of it.
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Hazzard
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telecasterisation - Would you condone or accept the killing of any person or persons for the sake of preserving the current state of the earth or better?
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telecasterisation
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hazzard wrote:
Telecasterisation - Would you condone or accept the killing of any person or persons for the sake of preserving the current state of the earth or better?


Unquestionably.

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Hazzard
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are basically an Al Gore loving Georgia Guide Stone worshipping, mother earth loving peopel hater.

So what exactly makes you any different than any of the New World Order * out there?

Your an idiot. My respect for you and your 'knowledge' has just vanished. Your against the truth, your WILL get what you want dont you worry about that.


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