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Chemtrails - fact or fiction?
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Patrick Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can remember seeing trails behind airliners back in the seventies. Remember those hot summer days of 76 didn't you used to lay there sunbathing and watch the trails?

I figure chemtrails are balls. Isn't this Boyle chap the guy that channels aliens? Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flamesong wrote:
I think the term is 'chaff'. I learned about it as a radar/radio mechanic in the Fleet Air Arm but I was only aware of aluminium foil strips being used. I never heard of heavy metals being used.

'chaff' is right, and the idea was to have a cloud of lightweight radar-reflective stuff to confuse the enemy. However, it would be dropped as a cloud, not as a trail (Wiki has an example)

The photo I posted shows vapour trails from a flight of bombers.

Vapour trails have been around as long as powered flight.

Combustion of carbohydrate goes thus, if I remember O level biology :

C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6CO2 + 6H2O +energy+energy (damn subscripts won't work)

Kerosene and other similar fuels have different C/H/O ratios, but the principle is exactly the same -
Burn a hydrocarbon in air, and water is given off.
If the air is cold enough it will condense / freeze
It the air is still enough it will linger.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my first post on this board. I see you have attracted a couple of paid shills already!

Vapour trails are not chemtrails. As has been said we have always had vapour trails in the sky and that is what you see coming off the WW2 bombers and any pictures of Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain.
These chemtrails are being deliberately laid down, often in a crisscross pattern. I'm really surprised that so few of you know about them. Are you not investigating the truth behind 9/11 etc? Don't you know what Google is? Just type in "chemtrails", for crying out loud! Spend half an hour reading the tons of stuff you will find.
Next time you have a clear sunny day in your area, go outside and look at the sky. Pretty soon high flying white unmarked jets will appear flying higher than normal passenger jets and twice as fast. They do not stick to the usual flight paths. You will see them hundreds of miles away from any civilian airports. I watched them crisscrossing Dartmoor one day until the whole sky was covered.
The gunk that they spew out has been analysed and it contains barium and aluminium particles. Some say it is weather modification and some say it is increasing the conductivity of the atmosphere making it easier to use HAARP. Sinister, what?

Please, we are well beyond discussing whether these things exist and we know they are not vapour trails from parrafin. Enough, already!

Expect to be hearing a lot more from me!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome London Mick and thanks for that,your first contribution to these boards.

West Yorks Truth forum is pretty good too eh?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

London Mick wrote:

Don't you know what Google is? Just type in "chemtrails", for crying out loud! Spend half an hour reading the tons of stuff you will find.

Put in "flat earth" and you'll get plenty of garbage too. Googling links to CT via CT key-words isn't proof that CT is true. You do understand that, don't you?

London Mick wrote:

Next time you have a clear sunny day in your area, go outside and look at the sky. Pretty soon high flying white unmarked jets will appear flying higher than normal passenger jets and twice as fast.

Higher than 30,000 feet, travelling at 1000mph and you can't see the markings? Gasp Shocked
You must make your arguments a tad tighter, Mick.

London Mick wrote:
They do not stick to the usual flight paths. You will see them hundreds of miles away from any civilian airports.


Planes hundreds of miles away from airports, at >30,000' ???
Never heard of such a thing!

London Mick wrote:
I watched them crisscrossing Dartmoor one day until the whole sky was covered.

Yep - get that here in the W Country all the time ... Cardiff, Bristol, Exeter, Birmingham, Bournemouth, Southampton... They all have airports. Cursed planes fly all over the damn place.

London Mick wrote:

The gunk that they spew out has been analysed and it contains barium and aluminium particles. Some say it is weather modification and some say it is increasing the conductivity of the atmosphere making it easier to use HAARP. Sinister, what?

Can you quote a verifiable source for the sampling and analysis of the "trails"? Another CTist here totally disagrees with that analysis, by the way (read up the top of the thread).

Hi Mick, welcome to the boards. If you want to discuss 9/11, regrettably shills like me are relegated to Critics Corner, but I look forward to meeting you there. Hope you can do a little better than your first effort here.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore the nonsense Mick is my advice
Dont get involved in Critics Corner is my second
Nice to see you here

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dh wrote:
Ignore the nonsense Mick is my advice
Dont get involved in Critics Corner is my second
Nice to see you here


ps dh, while you're here, you seem to accept these trails were common enough before 1945 and after 1995.
Were aircraft engines substantially different in the 46-94 period?

Also - can you name a 'popular' Conspiracy Theory you don't subscribe to?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
I can remember seeing trails behind airliners back in the seventies. Remember those hot summer days of 76 didn't you used to lay there sunbathing and watch the trails?

I figure chemtrails are balls. Isn't this Boyle chap the guy that channels aliens? Shocked

Produce the pictures then Patrick. They must be available over the internet. I can't remember seeing anything like the present day phenomenon before the end of the 'Nineties
Of course cheap air travel wasn't so available back then
I've tried this before but up until now haven't got a satisfactory reply
I've looked myself but haven't found anything
A few pictures of lone lingering trails would suffice

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignatz wrote:
dh wrote:
Ignore the nonsense Mick is my advice
Dont get involved in Critics Corner is my second
Nice to see you here


ps dh, while you're here, you seem to accept these trails were common enough before 1945 and after 1995.
Were aircraft engines substantially different in the 46-94 period?

Also - can you name a 'popular' Conspiracy Theory you don't subscribe to?

I think the trails were trails of glory in the war. Just a celebration of technical superiority. Reflectively that's what chemtrails are about. They're a sky sign of superiority, and via that a plasmic enfoldment slowing down the vibration, if you know what I mean
As to popular conspiracy theories, yes, The Jews Are Responsible is one I wouldn't hit on. It would appear to be a wrap that's ultimately dismissable
Most of the others I remain open-minded about

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dh wrote:
Ignatz wrote:
dh wrote:
Ignore the nonsense Mick is my advice
Dont get involved in Critics Corner is my second
Nice to see you here


ps dh, while you're here, you seem to accept these trails were common enough before 1945 and after 1995.
Were aircraft engines substantially different in the 46-94 period?

Also - can you name a 'popular' Conspiracy Theory you don't subscribe to?

I think the trails were trails of glory in the war. Just a celebration of technical superiority. Reflectively that's what chemtrails are about.

But at a physical level, how were they being produced? Looks very much like one trail per engine to me.
dh wrote:
[
They're a sky sign of superiority, and via that a plasmic enfoldment slowing down the vibration, if you know what I mean

I have no idea whatsoever what you mean. Perhaps you could explain about "plasmic enfoldment" and what is vibrating. No links please.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I think that unless you see these trails above you nearly everyday you can't actually appreciate what an awful mess they make of our skies.

I really do wish people wouldn't dismiss this, maybe you should just take time to look and learn a little more instead of saying so quickly .. either conspiracy or they are Contrails!!!

As for looking up when I was a child.... Yes I did and all I remember seeing is fluffy clouds, cloudy skies but NEVER Trails like there are over us. I have asked several older people about he skies of today and they also agree that it was never like this.

I have looked in many various old books and I don't see skies with trails like today..

The new books dated from around 2000 have the skies of today in them, probably getting our children used to it been like it is now.. hope as time goes by they get to see it like I remember it... Blue Sky and white clouds, NOT a White Milky Haze with these trails that turns into whisps.

I have seen the picture of the war planes many times, IMO this doesn't prove that the trails of today are the same as them... it's a picture many peeps use to say there has always been trails like today,,,

I really wish I could see other pics from years ago with skies like today but so far I have not...




Care to you all

Di

PS a link to You Tube Jarvis Cocker song to a Sky /sea Video!! (some bad language in it, thought I'd mention it for those of a nervous disposition)

Some will apreciate it, some won't.. I personally thought it about summed it up well Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_M22STINYw


The picture below has 4 planes in it (2 of them are fainter than the others)
shame the chimney was in the shot... as you can see two of them look like they have been shot out of the same cannon.. if you notice they start quite close together from the left of the pic and they appear to come from exactly the same direction / position. (just click on pic to make it bigger)



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Sherlock"]PS a link to You Tube Jarvis Cocker song to a Sky /sea Video!! (some bad language in it, thought I'd mention it for those of a nervous disposition)

Some will apreciate it, some won't.. I personally thought it about summed it up well Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_M22STINYw


Right at the beggining of that Video you can see them at it, I think Jarvis has noticed them as well.

Their must be sedatives in them trails,, I'm so HAPPY.... heheh

Laughing Come On everybody sing along Laughing

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London Mick
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Discovery channel is putting out a programme on Chemtrails soon. Check it out.
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Patrick Brown
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dh wrote:
Patrick Brown wrote:
I can remember seeing trails behind airliners back in the seventies. Remember those hot summer days of 76 didn't you used to lay there sunbathing and watch the trails?

I figure chemtrails are balls. Isn't this Boyle chap the guy that channels aliens? Shocked

Produce the pictures then Patrick. They must be available over the internet. I can't remember seeing anything like the present day phenomenon before the end of the 'Nineties
Of course cheap air travel wasn't so available back then
I've tried this before but up until now haven't got a satisfactory reply
I've looked myself but haven't found anything
A few pictures of lone lingering trails would suffice

Well I do have a memory and if people want to reliquish a degree of their sanity to such obvious balls that's fine by me!

I'm more concerned why topics such as these aren't locked or moved. Andrew Johnson moved the Judy Woods interview thread from the News section to the 9/11 Truth Controversies section which was rather telling as it was news and factuel unlike this rubbish. Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also seen lots of optical weirdness going on up there if you look enough,, this site http://www.atoptics.co.uk/
You'll see plenty on there, explaining the lot (I'm NOT convinced), web site started in 98.
Just look about the site, most of the pictures you will see Persistent CON-trails all over the place, not many old pictures up there, hmmm.
Just keep a open mind folks but thatís why MOST of us are here already because we have one.
Most TV ((Programs)) have them in,, I watched Top Gear last week and the sky was full of them, they even darkened the top of the screen(might* have been for that reason)

First Picture 28-04-06 at 15.54 Second one is 46 minutes later at 16.40

Thatís what the trails do to our sky,, DON'T listen to anyone on here dismissing it as nonsense or balls, just do you're own research, thereís oodles of things on Google Video and You tube plus many websites.

Try finding pictures/skies before 95 like this.



Belief is the Enemy of TRUTH



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:


I'm more concerned why topics such as these aren't locked or moved. Andrew Johnson moved the Judy Woods interview thread from the News section to the 9/11 Truth Controversies section which was rather telling as it was news and factuel unlike this rubbish. Rolling Eyes


Patrick.

Shut up.

Your are boring.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snowygrouch wrote:
Can someone explain WTF this is all about....you see for a minuite there I thought we were discussing vapour trails. Problem is see, hot air holds much more water than cold air. When the hot jet exhaust mixes with the very cold air at altitude the water comes out of suspension and becomes vapour trails.


Just look at the times concerned (i.e. how long they hang around for). I have posted this before, but as you asked the question, please advise me of any flaws in the basic points of science contained herein.

http://www.checktheevidence.com/articles/chem%20trails.htm

Also, I made this film last Sunday I did 2 edits (see below).

Google (seems a bit lower quality than YouTube, but there is link to a higher res WMV version)


Link



Link


Now, it doesn't surprise me who has posted what on this thread. Not one bit. OK! Let the Pernicious Debunking begin!

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Patrick Brown
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew it's such a shame that you didn't vid this with a time/date stamp as some of us may think you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

And yes those trails look just like the ones I remember seeing back in the summer of 1976. I also remember that I would often look up and see triangular criss cross patterns caused by the vapor trails of the aircraft.

Are you on some kind of power trip Andrew where you get kicks out of fouling simple minded people? Or is it simply that you're the one being fouled! Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick,
What difference does it make if Andrew had the time/date on camera? It is blatantly obvious that whatever is going on up there it is making a mess of our skies.

You have a closed mind on this subject IMO, you seem unable to look at all these pictures and actually have a rational/logical thought on this.

Whatever it is that they are pumping out on us canít be good for our health, there are just so many of these trails.

Like I have said many times before to people, if you donít see them over you nearly everyday I really donít think you can appreciate the fact how bad this abuse of our sky.

Whatever pictures/films/documents/people talking about this you see and hear, I donít think will change your opinion, but Iím not on this thread to do that, I just think some people might be interested in the pics been put up and may have seen them over their townÖ
So if your not interested in this, why keep coming back to this thread?

As for you seeing this in 1976, you may well have but people who I have spoken to on this subject say they have never seen skies like this until a few years ago.

As for simple minded people, I donít see where you get off on this comment, it is insulting to say the least..

My definition of a Simple Minded Person is .. one who has an UNinformed opinion on something, but still insists on trying to debunk what is clearly visible to the eyes. In this instant THE TRAILS LEFT BY AIRCRAFT DO EXSIST AND NOT AS BEFORE, NOT IN NORFOLK ANYWAY!!!

Please tell me a book that was published before 1998 that has the skies looking as they do now.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
Andrew it's such a shame that you didn't vid this with a time/date stamp as some of us may think you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

And yes those trails look just like the ones I remember seeing back in the summer of 1976. I also remember that I would often look up and see triangular criss cross patterns caused by the vapor trails of the aircraft.

Are you on some kind of power trip Andrew where you get kicks out of fouling simple minded people? Or is it simply that you're the one being fouled! Rolling Eyes


patrick i can certainly vouch for these trails, last sunday i was posting leaflets in spondon for willie rodriguez tour and on my way there and back and during posting i was pointing them out to my brother who was helping. last sunday they seemed to be working overtime to cover the sky, i dont live close to aj but i certainly live in the same area of spraying. andrew taking these last sunday matches exactly what i was seeing last sunday.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to add there have been loads of planes flying over my house today and the sky is the clearest blue you could imagine. not one lingering trail that hangs there for half a day/all day turning into long fluffy clouds.

chemicals? i dont know but nothing ive heard try to explain does explain them. i get told all sorts and nothing matches. when i do see a plane usually leave a long trail the trail dissapears at the same rate it appears but is slightly longer than usual these are normal, long continous trails that only target a specific area and linger all day is not. number one tell tale sign that seems to be there when this is going of is the large X in the sky. X marks the spot?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Anecdote on the topic. Reply with quote

Sherlock wrote:
Patrick,

Whatever it is that they are pumping out on us canít be good for our health, there are just so many of these trails.


Heres an interesting little anecdotal story on the subject. This is an honest to heavens account written by someone I know about as well as I know myself Laughing

It would appear that recently, the phenomenon of Chemtrails in our skies has been intensifying. This was a subject that I myself didn't take very seriously until early last year, despite having read much about this whole phenomenon .

One morning however, whilst gazing out of my window into space ( as I'm often prone to doing ), I noticed an aircraft flying overhead, precisely parallel to what appeared to be a huge cloudbank. I watched in amazement however, as the emissions of the craft proceeded to "knit" to the existing clouds....


link ; http://www.allthatis.co.uk/latest_news.htm

About a third of the way down the page ( Feb 7th update under the heading of Chemtrail frenzy)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in a way it a bit like 9/11 in terms of awareness, no one believes it to start with then some people wake up whilst being ridiculed by those that dont believe it. yet if they kept an eye on the sky watched and took note of any plane trail to see how they behave it becomes obvious which are chemtrail and witch are not. basically if it aint a chemtrail it will disapear as the plane is moving, not stay there long after the plane has long gone.

i saw one that wasnt even leaving a trail then started to leave one, then didnt, then did again, then didnt again ect, untill it became a continous line untill it got right across the sky then it stopped leaving a trail at all. so the trail looked like: nothing, dash, dash, dash, dash, continous line, stop. contrail? i carnt see it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
basically if it aint a chemtrail it will disapear as the plane is moving, not stay there long after the plane has long gone

Sorry you're wrong about this as I can distinctly remember seeing vapor trails way back in 1976 with varying degrees of longevity and intensity. I'm not going to argue as you are either rather naive or consciously pushing this lie with the aim of fulfilling some hidden agenda.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
basically if it aint a chemtrail it will disapear as the plane is moving, not stay there long after the plane has long gone

Sorry you're wrong about this as I can distinctly remember seeing vapor trails way back in 1976 with varying degrees of longevity and intensity. I'm not going to argue as you are either rather naive or consciously pushing this lie with the aim of fulfilling some hidden agenda.


lie or not agenda or not nobody can explain them. they are there im not imagining them, what are they? like i said above chemtrail im not sure but nobody offical will say what they are and any explaination dosnt match what is being seen all over the country. all people want to know is what they are. nobody can say, all i can say 100% is it aint vapour or contrails, anyone saying they are is ignoring the fact they linger all day whilst dispersing into long fluffy cloud.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
Andrew it's such a shame that you didn't vid this with a time/date stamp as some of us may think you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

And yes those trails look just like the ones I remember seeing back in the summer of 1976. I also remember that I would often look up and see triangular criss cross patterns caused by the vapor trails of the aircraft.

Are you on some kind of power trip Andrew where you get kicks out of fouling simple minded people? Or is it simply that you're the one being fouled! Rolling Eyes


Patrick, if you want to send me a PO box number, I will post you a CD with the time and date stamped files from my digital camera. The best I can do for the moment is send you a screen shot of the folder from my camera's SD card for when I took the pictures (see attached)

Your language and attitude, let alone the content of many of your posts, does not serve to enhance your credibility. I predicted your reaction in my post - and it seems I was correct about that as well. Would you like to become a whistle blower, or is it just that you cannot accept basic evidence when it upsets your world view?

Have a GREAT day!



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew what has any of this got to do with 911?

And please don't say aircraft!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was so special about the summer of 76 then Patrick ?
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
9/11 Truth critic


Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
What was so special about the summer of 76 then Patrick ?

It was hot hence many clear sky's and a lot of laying on my back. Shocked Err sunbathing I was honest! Embarassed

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Andrew Johnson
Mighty Poster
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1919
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Brown wrote:
Andrew what has any of this got to do with 911?

And please don't say aircraft!


It isn't directly 9-11 related per se - not in a really obvious way, but several people have started threads about Chemtrails on this forum.

(I think I have only started 1 thread about Chemtrails myself - when Ironsnot was in one of his pernicious debunking modes.)

Chemtrailing, like 9-11, affects us all and fundamentally changes aspects of our world view. I therefore feel compelled to contribute the evidence I have collected and analysed, to some extent. Debunking the evidence may ultimately turn out to be seriously detrimental to all of us, so I appeal to everyone to think about this issue very carefully. I have come to conclusion that it is another black project - and elements of the 9/11 hoax were black projects too.

You didn't answer my question about becoming a whistleblower - and I address it to any pernicious debunkers out there too.

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