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Shayler says he's the New Messiah
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SHERITON HOTEL
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't ALL leaders/public people a bit unhinged? I've never understood professional politicos and how they think they can run the world when it's barely possible for the individual to run his/her own life in my experience.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi B

B wrote:
.......... above all keep him out of mental hospital because that's the real danger


I would suggest this advice is best steered towards those currently closest to David in private, but bare in mind that

Quote:
A patient can (ONLY) be sectioned (AGAINST THEIR WILL) if they are perceived to be a threat to themselves or other people.
(Source)

and as far as I know David is a threat to no-one including himself
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Loose Cannon Reply with quote

B wrote:
Quote:
I gather heís accepted an invitation to talk on Iranian TV tonight ...

Oh dear, Iranian TV tonight ... Fox News tomorrow ... Sectioned by Friday.

I sense Mr Shayler heading towards a very slippery slope; a descent from which he may find it extremely difficult to recover!

I do so hope I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Normal rules Reply with quote

Ian Neal quoted:
Quote:
A patient can (ONLY) be sectioned (AGAINST THEIR WILL) if they are perceived to be a threat to themselves or other people.


Remember this is David Shayler we're talking about here ... normal rules are unlikely to be applied!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it really matter where any of this goes?

The events of 9/11 are pivotal to the world's perception of what it means to be human: What it means to be an individual: What it means to uphold truth and justice in the face of devious and ever increasing attacks against it?

Spread the message far and wide, especially into dark backwaters like the screwloose crew's home den. If nothing else, it keeps them occupied dreaming up new distortions. :)

No hiding the facts

No hiding human frailties

No hiding human strengths

No hiding the Truth.

If nothing else, remember the lesson Niemuller learnt too late.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned the possibility of being sectioned because Stelios suggested he should check in for treatment.

However, as is common in psychosis, the sufferer himself has no apperception that thereís the slightest thing wrong with him so that suggestion is a non-starter;

Then, if the psychosis gets worse, as it may well do, especially if he gets into confrontational situations (not all audiences will be as gentle and tolerant as the Glastonbury audience, the press and media could latch onto this big-time, etc.) he could lose his rag and lash out at someone and it would only take one such incident to get him sectioned.

Thatís why Iím strongly suggesting a quiet regime at the moment and thatís not just down to his immediate carers, itís down to all of us to help steer him away from platforms and TV, at least till he recovers some kind of balance.

A propos it was entirely wrong to book him for Iranian TV this evening, only 3 days after Glastonbury, or not to cancel the booking, especially as the party that most likely brokered this appearance knew full well what state Dave is in right now. When Dave turns up here this afternoon pre the talk (to pick up a suit) I shall do my best to persuade him not to go through with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't open the page but this is now on the channel4 forums

community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/503603557/m/6150025088

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B

Quote:
When Dave turns up here this afternoon pre the talk (to pick up a suit) I shall do my best to persuade him not to go through with it.


Am I too late to suggest you mention the fiasco that happened 'to the other side' over the recent marine hostages debacle?

Thanks very much for keeping us informed. Please also give Dave our thanks for doing such an excellent job on the BBC - I doubt it made him many friends in high places...
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd like to hear this myself before commenting on this.

Is there any audio available anywhere for this event?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
...... but if I had I would share any insights or advice for him in private......... that is for David to decide but I wish him well



It is not possible to contact David so there is nowhere to go with 'advice'. Saying 'that is for David to decide' is true in a tautological sense only. It is unlikely that he is currently in a mental condition to make any sensible judgements.

Just because he has called himself 'The Messiah' (or what ever it is exactly that he said) does not mean he is yet schizophrenic. He is in great danger of becoming so, though. People most commonly move from his state of mind into real schizophrenia or Jim Jones-style dangerous action.
According to the Bateman model and the Laing model schizophrenia is caused by an internal act carried out by the individual against themselves. With the right kind of help it is probably possible to avert this outcome.

This is the kind of help that most people, during the process of their collapse, most definitely do not get.

The societal record shows that right now he is likely to be a danger to himself, not by physical but by self-destructive spiritual action.

Let's hope he makes it through this difficult time.
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belinda or Annie would be able to pass any message on to David or I will give you his email address by PM
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets get on without Shayler. One personality does not a resistance movement make.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave has come by and has now gone off to his Iranian talk, the source of that booking has been traced to a journalist friend of Annieís and itís not a mainstream channel one gathers so perhaps itís OK. Also he says heíll do the usual, mostly 9/11 & GWOT stuff so again sighs of relief!

Actually we were pleasantly surprised by his current demeanour; he regaled us with the complete and unexpurgated story of his recent revelations which are indeed extraordinary! However he didnít come across as psychotic, certainly not in a clinical sense, if anything Iíd say heís a lot saner and more Ďtogetherí than when I last saw him (March/Indian YMCA talk).

Much of the credit for that goes to his companions in Bristol and Devon who have stood by him while heís been going through what clearly is some kind of rapid process of awakening, the final outcome of which is yet to become apparent, for all the interim declarations about being the Messiah. The mind in its attempt to interpret and order a sudden inrush of new information, whether issuing from the depths of the individual subconscious and buried soul memory or from the wider cosmos/the great collective consciousness is constrained by having only conventional terrestrial metaphor and symbology on which to draw, which may need replacing as the journey of discovery and development progresses. The image of the first aviators in their clumsy little assemblages of wood and canvas taking off on the first leg of manís eventual journey to the stars comes to mind.

That Dave through his pioneering courage has already made a huge personal contribution to human history is without dispute and he may yet have a further role to play in navigating the way out of the matrix Ė but hopefully he is coming to realise that he doesnít have to go this part of the journey alone, heís now part of a team.

The New Messiah is most likely plural!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Notes from a Fellow Traveller Reply with quote

David Shaylor is neither the first ... nor will he be the last

B wrote:
Quote:
Actually we were pleasantly surprised by his current demeanour; he regaled us with the complete and unexpurgated story of his recent revelations which are indeed extraordinary! However he didnít come across as psychotic, certainly not in a clinical sense, if anything Iíd say heís a lot saner and more Ďtogetherí than when I last saw him


Quote:
In 1743-45 Swedenborg had a visionary experience and devoted himself to prophesy and spiritual investigations. He noted in Amsterdam on the morning of October 1743 that "such dizziness or deliquium (a swooning away) overcame me that I felt close to death." In a dream a roaring wind picked him up and threw him on his face. A hand clutched his own clasped hand and he saw Christ. Vicious dogs turned up frequently, and his dead father appeared to him, praising his son's theological work. In 1744 on Easter Monday Christ asked the astonished visionary, whether he had a health certificate. Swedenborg described in DE TELLURIBUS his trip around the Solar System, which is seen as having a spiritual significance. The book also contains some scientific speculation about the planets.

Swedenborg became convinced that he had been designated by God as a spiritual emissary to explore higher planes and to report his findings to humankind. He entered ecstatic trances, visiting heaven and hell. However, contemporaries found him sane and sensible.

In modern analysis Swedenborg's trances have been explained by his repressed or transcended sexuality. Dr Wilson Van Dusen has claimed that Swedenborg's descriptions of angelic and hellish spirits match the hallucinatory experiences of schizophrenics. He spent sixteen years treating the hallucinations of his patients as realities, and published his findings in The Presence of Other Worlds (1974). According to Van Dusen, "All Swedenborg's observations on the effect of evil spirits entering man's consciousness conform to my finding."

Source: www.kirjasto.sci.fi/sweden.htm


In the colloquial parlance of the Spiritual Emergency, David is now wrestling with a very powerful monkey; an Ego driven entity which has attached itself to him and will do everything within it's power to convince David that he is the 'Special One'. A common technique is to take the host (David) into parallel realms, a la the experience of Emmanuel Swedenborg.

David is in for a very exciting journey over the coming weeks & months ... to say nothing of the roller-coaster ride that those around him will have to endure. Without the input and guidance from those who deal with this type of situation on a daily basis, it remains to be seen whether David is able to integrate his profound experiences without turning himself into a circus Freak Show.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B wrote:
Dave has come by and has now gone off to his Iranian talk, the source of that booking has been traced to a journalist friend of Annieís and itís not a mainstream channel one gathers so perhaps itís OK. Also he says heíll do the usual, mostly 9/11 & GWOT stuff so again sighs of relief!

Actually we were pleasantly surprised by his current demeanour; he regaled us with the complete and unexpurgated story of his recent revelations which are indeed extraordinary! However he didnít come across as psychotic, certainly not in a clinical sense, if anything Iíd say heís a lot saner and more Ďtogetherí than when I last saw him (March/Indian YMCA talk).

Much of the credit for that goes to his companions in Bristol and Devon who have stood by him while heís been going through what clearly is some kind of rapid process of awakening, the final outcome of which is yet to become apparent, for all the interim declarations about being the Messiah. The mind in its attempt to interpret and order a sudden inrush of new information, whether issuing from the depths of the individual subconscious and buried soul memory or from the wider cosmos/the great collective consciousness is constrained by having only conventional terrestrial metaphor and symbology on which to draw, which may need replacing as the journey of discovery and development progresses. The image of the first aviators in their clumsy little assemblages of wood and canvas taking off on the first leg of manís eventual journey to the stars comes to mind.

That Dave through his pioneering courage has already made a huge personal contribution to human history is without dispute and he may yet have a further role to play in navigating the way out of the matrix Ė but hopefully he is coming to realise that he doesnít have to go this part of the journey alone, heís now part of a team.

The New Messiah is most likely plural!!!


I have never heard so much rubbish in all my life. I have a great deal of respect for David. But when I was going off rails. Everyone who cared about me tried to get me to get help. At first, I ignored them. The outcome was a massive nervous breakdown. All this spiritual BS is not going to help him. If what is being reported is true. David clearly needs help. A majority of the people this site, have a very disturbing habit of tarring all with the same brush. The team that helped me when I went over the edge, pulled me back up again. Trying to cover it in this New Age spiritual doctrine is very bad indeed. Since I got help, I have got back to myself again. Not all therapist are behind some conspiracy to alter our minds. And do not all work for some clandestine force to control us. And what is this awakening stuff all about. Surely you do not mean what is happening to him now. I would say he is acting the way he is, as a safety valve. He needs to be helped through this. Sometimes, it is a good feeling to leave the real world for while, when you are in his situation. I did. But a time came to get real support. You guys should not indorse his delusions by adding to it with this spiritual nonsense. All spiritualism is a delusional facet in peoples lives. If one can not cope. He turns to a fantasy. As I did. But I had to get back to the real world. And I did. And now the one thing I am not delusional about. Is the fact that 9/11 is an inside job. That is what this site is about. But is fast becoming a joke. I have stopped recommending it as a reference to people I talk to regarding 9/11. The people that I have, have thought it to be cranky. This will only lead to that conclusion. I mean not to offend. But that is how I have come to see it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David WJ Sherlock says: ' You guys should not indorse his delusions by adding to it with this spiritual nonsense. All spiritualism is a delusional facet in peoples lives.'

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. Many others, including myself, believe that the spiritual world is far more important than this short physical existence. Our bodies exist for perhaps four score years; our souls, or spirit, exist for eternity. I of course can no more prove this than you can prove your proposition. With luck, you will become enlightened!

If some folks are put off this site by some of the stuff, so be it. We need stouter hearts to continue the struggle. A true seeker of truth about 9/11 will not be put off. !A Luta Continua!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:
David WJ Sherlock says: ' You guys should not indorse his delusions by adding to it with this spiritual nonsense. All spiritualism is a delusional facet in peoples lives.'

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. Many others, including myself, believe that the spiritual world is far more important than this short physical existence. Our bodies exist for perhaps four score years; our souls, or spirit, exist for eternity. I of course can no more prove this than you can prove your proposition. With luck, you will become enlightened!

If some folks are put off this site by some of the stuff, so be it. We need stouter hearts to continue the struggle. A true seeker of truth about 9/11 will not be put off. !A Luta Continua!
9/11 is not a spiritual matter. It is in the here and now. We deal the avarage man on the street.

novem undecim eram an inside officium

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David WJ Sherlock wrote:
And now the one thing I am not delusional about. Is the fact that 9/11 is an inside job. That is what this site is about. But is fast becoming a joke. I have stopped recommending it as a reference to people I talk to regarding 9/11. The people that I have, have thought it to be cranky. This will only lead to that conclusion. I mean not to offend. But that is how I have come to see it.


I agree with your sentiments about this website. I no longer recommend it to people either. I recommend them to the Campaign's official website http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ if they want to know what the campaign is about. It is because this website is too cranky that we set up the official website and renamed this one: Peacing it Together.

It's a good place for us spiritual loons to sound off, but I've had much experience of people judging the 9/11 Truth Campaign by what they see written on this forum and therefore deciding we are crazies.

I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmasdale wrote:
David WJ Sherlock wrote:
And now the one thing I am not delusional about. Is the fact that 9/11 is an inside job. That is what this site is about. But is fast becoming a joke. I have stopped recommending it as a reference to people I talk to regarding 9/11. The people that I have, have thought it to be cranky. This will only lead to that conclusion. I mean not to offend. But that is how I have come to see it.


I agree with your sentiments about this website. I no longer recommend it to people either. I recommend them to the Campaign's official website http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ if they want to know what the campaign is about. It is because this website is too cranky that we set up the official website and renamed this one: Peacing it Together.

It's a good place for us spiritual loons to sound off, but I've had much experience of people judging the 9/11 Truth Campaign by what they see written on this forum and therefore deciding we are crazies.

I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.

Well it's a craperama to get on it in the first place which puts me off at all times
Secondly, why should we want to deny our looniness
We are right and the media-modified nonsense is wrong
The public that's got a braincell or two to rub together knows it
I know that's a scaringly small subsection, but what the hell!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Without the input and guidance from those who deal with this type of situation on a daily basis, it remains to be seen whether David is able to integrate his profound experiences without turning himself into a circus Freak Show.


Watcher who are those who deal with this type of situation on a daily basis? and what are their credentials?

And Dave Sherlock, I'm pleased to hear you survived a mental breakdown but it seems you scampered back into some kind of box, hauled back in by others still inside the box for whom you probably constituted a threat to their own mental security.

Humanity could not and will not progress until more of us realise that we have untapped mental faculties as well as a huge moral drive that are being deliberately constricted to prevent us escaping from our collective box and linking up with the rest of intelligent life in this universe - which if we did, we would be able to overcome our controllers and put this planet to rights.

9/11 constitutes a contemporary wake-up call to stop accepting the 'official' view of reality and start questioning EVERYTHING that is going on in this world - and if this results in certain more idiosyncratic souls amongst us such as David suddenly accessing a whelter of new information from beyond and relaying that back in whatever form he sees fit to communicate it, so be it; like all new information it will be tried and sifted and it will stick or not stick but that's OK; we don't have to take what any one person says as the gospel!

But conversely, 9/11 should teach us if nothing else that we don't have to take what a certain nefarious elite with patently zero regard for their fellow humans' wellbeing and progress presents as the gospel either, especially if so much damage and trauma directly results from their lies and manipulation.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B asked:
Quote:
... who are those who deal with this type of situation on a daily basis? and what are their credentials?


You could do a lot worse that start here:

SPIRITUAL CRISIS NETWORK (UK)
www.SpiritualCrisisNetwork.org.uk

Also see: www.oasishumanrelations.org.uk/pdfsnew/Dont-Look-Back.pdf

As for credentials; well it depends what you mean by 'credentials'. It may be that relevant academic qualifications are important to you ... or you might attach more importance on the particular experience of the Counsellor. It's horses for courses and, as always, a lot depends upon personal chemistry. Maybe you will contact some of the people listed on the website shown above and see where it leads.

Once you start exploring the Spiritual Emergence Community, you will discover that the behaviours presently being demonstrated by David Shaylor, are far more common than most people probably imagine. However, the vast majority of travellers do not have such a high profile and are less inclined to have the opportunity to make public pronouncements about their chosen status.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmasdale wrote:


I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.


I asked for and was given a username and password and still failed to access the site twice.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
xmasdale wrote:


I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.


I asked for and was given a username and password and still failed to access the site twice.


Should be sorted now. Thumbs Up

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmasdale wrote:
David WJ Sherlock wrote:
And now the one thing I am not delusional about. Is the fact that 9/11 is an inside job. That is what this site is about. But is fast becoming a joke. I have stopped recommending it as a reference to people I talk to regarding 9/11. The people that I have, have thought it to be cranky. This will only lead to that conclusion. I mean not to offend. But that is how I have come to see it.


I agree with your sentiments about this website. I no longer recommend it to people either. I recommend them to the Campaign's official website http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ if they want to know what the campaign is about. It is because this website is too cranky that we set up the official website and renamed this one: Peacing it Together.

It's a good place for us spiritual loons to sound off, but I've had much experience of people judging the 9/11 Truth Campaign by what they see written on this forum and therefore deciding we are crazies.

I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.
Well said N. My brother is a hard nut to crack. He totally believes the official account of 9/11. I was getting him to listen, then I said he should visit our site. Now he will not even talk about it now. He said "I think you are a load of cranks". True he as never awaken to this true reality. But now he has told me straight, not to bring it up anymore. He may be blind to the truth. But he is also very well educated. But he says he does not wish to be tied in with us. I am not blaming the whole community as a whole. But this site should go back to the real issues regarding 9/11. I say that all the mystic agenda should set up its own website. I think it has its place. Just not on here. Oh yes, B. I have not been pulled into any boxes. Metaphorical or otherwise. Just because I do not subscribe to these ludicrous beliefs, it does not make me trapped in a box I can not get out of. I am awake and aware of the deceptions of the present day geo-political climate.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
xmasdale wrote:


I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.


I asked for and was given a username and password and still failed to access the site twice.


Should be sorted now. Thumbs Up


It isn't!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Spiritual Freedom Reply with quote

Working Toward a Transcendent Future

Ken Wilber says enlightenment is the number one priority because only "enlightened action" transforms and we need transformation more than mere translation. However joining a sangha, going to endless weekend retreats, yoga lessons and therapies seems like self-indulgent dilly-dallying while Rome burns.

Teilhard de Chardin said that transformation is the Triumph of Spirit. This Triumph of Spirit is not brought about through inflated Boomer world-saving projects or get rich quick schemes. The Triumph of Spirit is the empowerment of the body, mind, heart and soul toward action that reflects the Good, the True and the Beautiful...(or God).

Thus we can see that the way to bring about enlightened change is through focusing our thought, feeling, intention and action on those areas of our personal and collective lives that need to be brought into the light of Grace. And thereby facilitate this Triumph of Spirit.

If we succeed in this active cultivation of Spiritual Triumph, then we can ensure that our action is enlightened and will contribute toward an enlightened collective future.
Each of us has a specific role in the spiritual evolution of humanity that both reflects our identity code of where we came from and is informed via Spirit from the transcendent future.

Our "job" in this lifetime involves breaking out of the molds of external determinism (be they gender, race, age, class, geography, politics, economics and education) to discover what it is we are really here for.

The second imperative that arises on vision-questing our enlightened path is to find others that one can work with in some, or all aspects of our vocational-dream. Through collective efforts an autopoietic structure emerges that is designed by and for Spirit.

If the quest is beyond mere seeking for personal survival and spiritual enrichment, then it stands as a cosmically, integral and holy endeavor. In this way the Mystic Civilization is born from the dying structures of the old.

We can be sure that our results will mirror our means. Therefore to bring into manifestation a future that is based on love, humor and the Good, the True and the Beautiful, all stages of our path should reflect these qualities.

The thing with freedom is that the horizon keeps getting further away, and as one awakens one realizes how much further out of the prison there is to go. All we can do is work with where we are. To compassionately accept that, and to make changes that lead to greater facilitation, so we are not working against ourselves, stumbling, bumbling about, apologizing for existing, denying our soul.

Freedom, like enlightenment is infinite...sometimes all that is asked of us is to make ourselves a little more at home on this earth.

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=WorkingTowardaTranscen dentFuture

David is now taking his first steps towards real freedom and as sure as day turns into night, the journey ahead will follow the classic alchemical path, ... a path that ain't pretty but it sure is memorable!

Alkmyst
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alkmyst
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Forum Reply with quote

Xmasdale wrote:
Quote:
I wish more people would use the official website's private forum, http://911truthcampaign.net/forum/YaBB.pl but there's a strange reluctance to do so.

Might that be because this is the spiritual home of the UK 9/11 Truth Movement?

Setting up a Campaign Forum, remote from nineeleven and changing the name to something as cryptic as Peacing it Together, is like Wimbledon FC moving to Milton Keynes. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time!

Alkmyst
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Stephen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should all thank David Shayler for what he has given to the 9/11 Truth Movement, we might never of got as much media exposer without him.

Thank You David Shayler.
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I'm aware that the name change of this forum isn't to everyone's liking and is certainly an issue that can be revisited (sorry it can't be a priority at present), I think the redesign of the front page has helped to reinforce the separation that has always existed between what gets said here on a public forum that anyone can join and what gets said in the campaign's name.

Given that some here are concerned that what gets said on this thread or more widely on the forum reflects badly on the campaign it is probably worth restating the following.....

Natural tension between promoting freedom of expression and promoting a professional campaign

Ever since day one there has been a natural tension between those of us who wish to focus solely on 9/11 and the creation of a 'professional' campaign (even a political party was once suggested by one campaigner) and those of us who wish to link 9/11 to a whole range of wider issues the discussion of which will inevitably dilute any 'professional' message: a tension between some form of central 'control' and co-ordination and a more anarchic approach with little central co-ordination. In large part due to our limited capacity we have grown through the anarchic approach, however, in the past 20 odd months firstly under Ian Crane's wise chairmanship and currently under the co-chairmanship of Annie, Justin and me, a professional campaign has started to take shape.

As explained on the campaign site, the national campaign is responsible for very little: the content of its website and official statements, selecting a spokesperson to represent the campaign in the media should the opportunity arise and organising tours and events for 9/11 speakers (eg Willy's tours, DRG event last Sept) whilst not endorsing any one speaker. And that's it. The campaign is not responsible for what individual campaigners may say or what gets said here.

Not a difficult concept but one that many struggle to accept. Perhaps this is because traditionally politics is a lot about hierarchies and internal power struggles and this makes it difficult for some to imagine that another way is possible

Could and should the campaign be more professional?

Undoubtedly yes. But the plain fact is we are not professional. We are amateur volunteers. Most activism is planned and takes place at the local level (as it should) and is voluntary. All national campaigning is voluntary and done on a complete shoe string. No one is paid, most of us have jobs and many of us have families to juggle as well. So whilst we can all wish that we had the time and money to run things more professionally the truth is we don't. Given the constraints we work under I say we have a lot to be proud of and optimistic about.

The reasons why we don't have a membership and don't endorse any one campaigner or presentation of the evidence.

There are good reasons why the campaign has supporters and not members. We welcome support from everyone regardless of their wider beliefs and regardless of faith, politics, gender, ethnicity and so forth. The only exception to this is we reject support from those who promote violence in any way or who promote hatred / racism. Any campaigner is free to speak their own truth in support of but not on behalf of the campaign and this includes David Icke and David Shayler. At the same time it is safe to say that the campaign committee will not be inviting either Mr Icke and Shayler to represent it any time soon

If we had a membership, as stellios suggests, I ask who would decide who is a member and on what criteria. Presumably under such a system, David S would have been welcome 9 months ago when he was giving a barnstorming 'on-message' talk prior to DRG's Conway Hall presentation but now he has gone 'off-message' he would be thrown out in disgrace (in much the same way the Green Party reacted to David Icke). Would membership be open to those who promote the most controversial theories? Would the campaign have an official position on climate change or peak oil and would those that reject this position be ejected? Would members be allowed to discuss other controversies such as chemtrails in public or would we whisper about such things in private. No. A membership system would solve nothing and create divisions and problems where there need not be any.

The reasons we don't endorse any one campaigner or any one presentation of the evidence are

    it minimises the internal disputes and divisions that have arisen between campaigners and campaigning organisations in the US

    it reduces the potential for tedious internal politics and battles of egos that plague so many organisations and campaigns

    it promotes freedom of expression and encourages us all to speak our own truth whilst reducing the value of anyone seeking to impose this truth on others.

    it promotes autonomy and independence amongst local groups

    it promotes tolerance and diversity


Ultimately I see the war of terror as the end game of the age old struggle of humanity vs the forces of fascism and that 911 is key to a wider political and for me spiritual awakening. This is my wider agenda as I explain here and here, but I also know that many of us will have no truck with either religion or notions of spirituality and that is fine to.

Belinda's 'new age nonsense' is her truth. David's 'messiah nonsense' is his truth. Whilst some will inevitably see such talk as cranky, I hope no one is advocating that these opinions are censored. If someone's truth doesn't resonate with you, feel free to say so and then pay it no attention but don't feel the need to silence it.

As dh and thermate say the facts of 9/11 are on our side and next to the facts peoples' wider opinions are just that opinions and pale in significance

I don't suppose this will put an end to the tension between the wish for 'professionalism' and the wish for free speech, but I hope it explains the relationship between what David says or what another individual says here and what the campaign says.

In the words of Brian (PBUH)

Quote:
You've all got to work it out for yourselves!


Last edited by ian neal on Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Thermate911
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B said:
Quote:
Humanity could not and will not progress until more of us realise that we have untapped mental faculties as well as a huge moral drive that are being deliberately constricted to prevent us escaping from our collective box and linking up with the rest of intelligent life in this universe - which if we did, we would be able to overcome our controllers and put this planet to rights.


It is so very heartwarming to see that at least some people close to David have ALL their senses functioning.

Whereas some posters here could almost be read as inadvertent agents of darkness...

Ignorance of our true abilities as emerging sentience seem to me the ONLY thing holding us back from a global and impartial 9/11 re-investigation.

My love and gratitude to you, B
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