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Shayler says he's the New Messiah
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Thermate911
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'B'

Thanks for posting that. Most insightful, sensitive and informative.

From my personal experiences traveling from group to group, it has recently begun to seem that the entire 'spiritual path' is being 'condensed', for want of a better expression. Yes, it does give the impression of acute schizophrenia; the ego is still partially 'in control'.

You say he is slovenly. I would be interested to know if that changes over the next few weeks, perhaps with the onset of a frantic 'clearing up' session.

I do hope that you, his friends, will be able to cope whilst letting him work his way through this. I have great admiration for what David has done and assuredly will do in spades in the coming months once he steadies. Did I mention Reiki, from an accredited master?...

Thanks once again for sharing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hhhhmmm. Dave is the new messiah. Messiah Dave. What's wrong with that? Is he the new MI5-mediated false-flag ad-hominem-attack Messiah?
Nope - he's just the W Reich under-enormous-attack identifies-with-Christ Messiah
Nothing wrong with that - let's have a little more gist of his offering

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Shayler says he is the new Messiah Reply with quote

moeen yaseen wrote:
There are several issues here. One is the mind and state David finds himself in and I would rather NOT comment on that here as others have already done.

Secondly, we need to be prepared as a movement to have a damage limitation strategy in place. His association with the UK 9/11 truth movement must not be allowed to tarnish the movement and the cause it is dedicated to. No individual represents this movement and we must be ready to dissassociate ourselves from anything which is fundamentally detrimental to the cause. I must confess that we need to refrain from giving any one individual such prominence. There have to be checks and balances Ian otherwise this work will go to rot just like that.


I think the 9/11 Truth Campaign in Britain has already laid reasonable precautions for a contingency such as this. These words appear on the front of the campaign's website:

"The campaign accepts support from any individual or organisation including those who believe that the official story is approximately correct but who wish to see a thorough investigation. The campaign does not endorse any views on any subject which go beyond the material on this website."

The Campaign's website is to be found here: http://www.911truthcampaign.net/

Remember the Peacing it Together website is not the Campaign's website; it is a website and forum for general discussion of issues concerning the broader truth and anti-war movement.

It has long been a stated principle of the campaign that no one speaks on its behalf (except on occasional limited cases when a press officer does so after consultation with the committee).

Unfortunately such is the way the world is arranged that the campaign does not decide who is given prominence. The media decide who they are interested in reporting - not us. Of course arranging public meetings for David has helped to give him prominence, but the campaign has also arranged public meetings for many other speakers, whom the media have decided not to give prominence to: Gordon Ross, Calum Douglas, Annie Machon, Ian Henshall, Ian Crane, Nafeez Ahmed, William Rodriguez, David Ray Griffin, Webster Tarpley.

I did personally invite David Shayler to join our campaign and he has drawn fantastic publicity to our cause, partly through his relentless public speaking and partly through the fact that the media were already interested in him.

Now I am sure that the media and others who seek to rubbish us will do their best to make a meal out of David's latest pronouncement and he will probably be treated as David Icke was some 15 years ago. We can't do anything about that, but we can remind people that it is stated on our website that no one speaks on behalf of the campaign.


moeen yaseen wrote:

Thirdly taking for granted his utterances of being the "new Messiah" as stated we need to remind ourselves that all 3 Monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have their own eschatology concerning the second coming of Jesus. In Islam there is also a correlation with the Mahdi appearing with Jesus and restoring TRUTH and JUSTICE to the world. Accordingly this is not a matter to be toyed with lightly as we are talking about the fate of humanity here. Each of us here has to either accept his claim or reject it. Also we should also have no truck with charlatans as I can guarantee that the NWO is aching to bring on their
Messiah on stage soon. Laughing


I'm glad you can see the funny side of it, Moeen. Yes the whole anti-christ scenario is a bit of a worry.

The principle which has for long rung true for me is that those who don't claim it, but by their deeds display it, may have it; whereas those who claim enlightenment don't have it.

Matthew 7 16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits"

I find this very sad for David and hope he works his way through it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the latest in a long and ever increasing catalogue of errors.
Most recently you may remember the radio 4 interview with Jon Ronson and Rachel North London where Rachel made an allegation that the UK truth movement thinks the bus was made of cardboard and that she was an amalgamation of several people.
Shaylor said to Ronson that he believes she is several people and there is no evidence the bus is not fake.

Stick him in a shell suit from asda and you have a bargain basement David Icke. I think the movement needs to modernise and move on. We have important work that needs to be done, we have an important message that needs to be delivered and if we c*** up our country could be destroyed right under our noses.
So we have to look at the big picture and exclude the poor mans David Icke from our thoughts. The damage he can inflict far outweighs any benefits. In fact many people avoid us simply because of him.

It it offends thee pluck it out and throw it away.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This bulletin on the death of God, as in Nietzsche's day, will prove premature.
"2000 years of history......... "


Justin wrote:

David is unfortunately a tragic victim of the Matrix....but so is anyone who believes in a 'God' that can 'save you', a 'God' that you must 'worship'. We are all, on a very equal basis, parts of the Infinite Consciousness/Awareness/Possibility/Love like droplets in an Ocean. We don't need to prostrate ourselves to any greater being...THEY DON'T EXIST EXCEPT WITHIN THE MATRIX.

I wish David well and I'm sure he will be back.


You're in our prayers tonight Dave.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: There but for the grace of ..... Reply with quote

There are a number of posts in this thread which cause me to question the calibre of people who purport to be enlightened; particularly those posts from campaigners who are so quick to distance themselves from David Shayler in his time of need. It is perhaps too much to expect those under 40 years of age to have any concept of the transpersonal process; a bit like expecting a twelve year old to understand and appreciate the emotional turmoil they are about to experience as teenagers ... but those who are in their mid-40's and upwards will, one hopes, be able to demonstrate an appropriate degree of compassionate understanding.

"There but for the grace of (whomever you wish to nominate) go I," is a phrase we might all do well to remember.

I counsel those who represent the 'Campaign' to prepare an appropriate and compassionate press release, for distribution the moment he media start to get wind of this. It would be ungracious to ignore the role David Shayler has played in fronting the 9/11 Truth movement to date; especially as the prominent role he has taken in promoting the case for 9/11 truth may have contributed to his current predicament.

Rudolf Steiner observed that no one is ready to commence the spiritual awakening (transpersonal) process until they are at least 40 years of age. It seems David's Kundalini awakened right on cue!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are a number of posts in this thread which cause me to question the calibre of people who purport to be enlightened; particularly those posts from campaigners who are so quick to distance themselves from David Shayler in his time of need. It is perhaps too much to expect those under 40 years of age to have any concept of the transpersonal process; a bit like expecting a twelve year old to understand and appreciate the emotional turmoil they are about to experience as teenagers ... but those who are in their mid-40's and upwards will, one hopes, be able to demonstrate an appropriate degree of compassionate understanding.



In fairness, I read no hostility towards Dave Shayler on this thread, far from it, we all have a wide range of feelings on this matter, we don't all have to express all of them, and we can let others say for us through the multiplicity of views

There's a lot of Love for Dave Shayler

A lot of people have had to walk this path like Dave is now:

The Hard Way

But he'll be fine and so will we, and we do what we do becuase we do it

I totally support your comments about the wisdom and insight into "transpersonal experiances" that age can bring, every solar orbit brings new insight into the totality of being here

And at the same time I would like to mention that personally, I post in a generally pragmatic style in this community: I say what I feel needs to be said: and if you felt any of my prior posts on this thread lacked deep heartfelt sensitivity for Dave Shaylers position: I can assure you, that is not the case, and I know that is not the case for others

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apart from Stelios btw, but what the hey, its fair comment Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
It it offends thee pluck it out and throw it away.


This movement is filled with compassionate people who strive to help those who need it and it could be agrued that's one of the reasons why many are involved in the first place.

This is no different apart from the fact that David Shayler has helped raise the profile of 9/11 truth in the UK to a level that we thought almost impossible 3 or 4 years ago and has been criticised from almost every angle, even from within, for doing so. The pressure of that alone must be enormous for anybody to bear, not to mention the many other challenges and risks he's had to face just to survive in this country.

When one of our troops has been shot, we shouldn't leave them out on the field. This thread is a testament to how much he is valued and supported. Despite being told "mental breakdowns" are negative in the mainstream, I believe "mental breakthroughs" can be a highly positive experience in the long run. I've got a feeling he will be back more determined than ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:

This is no different apart from the fact that David Shayler has helped raise the profile of 9/11 truth in the UK to a level that we thought almost impossible 3 or 4 years ago and has been criticised from almost every angle, even from within, for doing so. The pressure of that alone must be enormous for anybody to bear, not to mention the many other challenges and risks he's had to face just to survive in this country.

Pressure? We all have pressure. We dont all start smoking skunk and popping tabs. We just pick ourselves up and get on with life.
Why dont we have a membership?
Why are we not allowed to choose who speaks on our behalf?
The whole problem is we are a loose collective and our most well known public face/voice is the new 'messiah'. If we were like every other campaign and had rules and had a strucuture and a membership these things would not occur. Pressure from within, i have only met him once when he told me Lockerbie was 100% as reported because he saw the files. Maybe if his collegues had put him under pressure he would not go off the rails. I have grown up in Tottenham and when i was younger i too participated. I smoked and popped and inhaled everything. But the day came when i broke out of that decided to get myself a job and get on with real life. I am against all narcotics, i have seen that most of my school mates are ruined whether its brown or skunk or rock.

Yes i agree if a person needs rehab then we should help him, but surely not at the distraction or expense of what is more important our aim should be focused at getting public awareness of the lies and exposing the truth.
If any one of us causes that to be sidetracked then i am afraid the bigger picture is far more important than any one member of this loose collective.
I have every sympathy with him, but cant you see the harm being done over and over again to the movement.
And is what we are trying to do a more important mission that saving one person from his own ego?

You say he has raised the profile of the campaign, ok how so?
Appearance on BBC tv which was ok, Sky News when he spoke of no planes and the Islam Channel which i believe resulted in the presenter being sacked. A couple of radio shows like the Jon Ronson show where he really did a hatchet job on himself. You have all heard it for yourself.

If you want to block me go ahead but everyone here knows we need to modernise and become more professional. Calum Douglas and Ian Crane never put a foot wrong and deliver the message in a professional and media friendly manner. I am happy to pin my colours to them as my spokesmen.
But a man who uses every platform to deliver a message based on his own ego and very little to do with the truth. Any person who declares himself as the new messiah is an afront to all those who believe in God and i as one such person cannot allow myself to be associated with such blasphemy. Unless ofcourse he is the second coming in which case i am probably damned.

Help him, get him into rehab but do not allow his problems to derail the truth campaign. Think how many more people will take you seriously if he were not involved. If you honestly believe that in SIX years the UK truth campaign has been a roaring success then i am obviously watching a different movie to everyone else.

I have respect for David he has made a couple of decent internet documentaries and rather than public speaking or media interviews making docs is probably where his strength lies and where he is most effective. Why doesnt he write another book.
Surely you can all see that putting him up on a stage again will do only harm to the movement and probably harm to himself too.
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When one of our troops has been shot, we shouldn't leave them out on the field.
Not even when they have shot themselves in the foot?
And what if the soldier is more dangerous to the rest of the Battalion?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject: Don Quixote Reply with quote

The following prescient observation was posted recently on Geoff Strays 2012 Yahoo Newsgroup by teueeu

Quote:
As Geoff Stray pointed out in his outstanding book, Beyond 2012: Catastrophe or Ecstacy, it is likely that more people will be showing signs of schizophrenia in the lead-up to 2012. I have witnessed these changes recently in some of my close friends. It seems that, in the spiritual quest, which is now being induced and/or accelerated by the current era-transition, a point is reached in which the ego goes through a massive struggle for survival. Some have called it Chapel Perilous.

In order to help these people through their schizophrenic break, (which naturally lasts 40 days and 40 nights, if the person is helped without drugs), PLEASE read the information on the link below ...this will probably happen to one of your friends soon - don't reject them or try to get them put into a place where they will be drugged and remain ill; help them through it and they will come through the experience integrated and healed:

Symptoms of Psychosis & What to Do About Them: A Guide for Family and Friends
www.heretohelp.bc.ca/publications/toolkits/psychosis/p_symptom_family. shtml

Teueeu's estimate of 40 days is perhaps rather ambitious; Stuart Wilde's assertion that the full transpersonal experience is a journey of 1,000 days is, in my own experience, a bit nearer the mark ... but perhaps I was just a slow learner! I also had the advantage of enduring my dark night of the soul away from public scrutiny, holed up in a houseboat on the canals of Amsterdam. I remain eternally grateful to those who never lost the faith that I would find a way through Chapel Perilous.

As a point of interest, the 'Jesus' moment is an integral part of the process (Jung called it 'The YHWH Syndrome'). Fortunately I was able to shrug it off in about two and a half nano-seconds but Jung observed that the Ego is capable of putting up one hell of a fight and has the potential to take the neophyte into a permanent state of psychosis ... but, I hasten to add, this outcome is extremely rare.

I don't normally make a habit of sharing such personal information and do so now only in an effort to assist in furthering the understanding for those who have yet to awaken the Kundalini serpent still lying dormant at the base of the spine.

Taking a more positive view of things, I hope that the public nature of David's search for the true Grail will be beneficial to those who have yet to enter this transitory realm.

More on Geoff Stray here: www.vitalsignspublishing.co.uk/book2012/authorGS.html

Geoff's 2012 repository: www.diagnosis2012.co.uk


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2012 is a psyop as was Planet X. Give people a date and a target for doom and 'believers' will get all worked up about it. Predictions of 'schizophrenia' become self fulfilling.

Crane - are you deluded or in the pay of the crooks? Either way you are leading people up a garden path and it does not lead to Eden.

It's really simple folks. It's all about CONTROLLING YOU ny all means possible of which pyops (mass media is part of this) constitute a very cost-effective and well-proven method.

Used to be UFOs were all the rage. Now with all these picture phones about it is harder to push the line 'I saw a UFO but didn't have my camera'. Yet UFO pics have not exploded in number, despite opportunity for capture now orders of magnitude higher.

Common sense beats belief anyday.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Should David Be Removed For A While Reply with quote

If. And I say if, what transpired regarding David is true. And judging by Watchers report. I would say it must be so. Then he should be allowed to sort himself out and come of the circuit for a while. I empathize with what he is going through. but I am concerned the harm this type of thing can do to the movement. Critics are always very keen to jump on this kind of press. Lets hope he sees sense. And I wish him all the best for the future.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been covered @ 911blogger

http://www.911blogger.com/blog

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Despite being told "mental breakdowns" are negative in the mainstream, I believe "mental breakthroughs" can be a highly positive experience in the long run. I've got a feeling he will be back more determined than ever.


Amen to that! He mostly certainly will, IF he is left alone to find his own way.

What concerns me sufficiently to 'open my mind' here is the very real possibility of people being 'sectioned' (hateful term!) merely for expressing their beliefs, however seemingly outrageous, outside of 'the norm'. Yet it happens all the time, not just in Solzenitzin books...

Posts here that talk of such as 'what if the media got wind of this' are frankly way off the mark. I would respond:-

'what if the media got wind of Dave's BBC repudiation'

'what if the media got wind of 9/11'

'what if the media got wind of the Rockefellers and Rothschilds real aims'

'what if the media got wind of REALITY'?

Worrying about personalities 'in the movement' is just tangential. Only increased consciousness of the real events of 9/11 is necessary for it to reach a 'Nuremberg moment'. It doesn't matter one jot however people express themselves; if some are put off by an individual's fleeting message, it is entirely beside the point.

The Facts Remain Facts.

The psychopaths remain psychopaths - Until They Are STOPPED.

"Fog of war could explain why some people were confused on the day of 9/11, but it could not explain why all of the..investigations and public testimony by FAA and NORAD officials advanced an account of 9/11 that was untrue."

Thomas H. Kean, Chairman, 9/11 Commission 8/4/06

"We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. ... So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail."

Lee Hamilton, Vice Chairman, 9/11 Commission

Both are now 'members' at:-

www.patriotsquestion911.com

Can the 9/11 issue be put any more succinctly than that?

Disarm the ringleaders now, perhaps using the draconian measures set forth in the Patriot Act, combined with the provisions for citizens arrests in the Constitution and most State Laws, and you will have saved humanity at large from at least a generation of Fascism and Misery.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another facet of this thread disturbs the equilibirum:-

"In the diagnostic manual DSM-IV there is a category of 'Religious or Spiritual Problem'. This diagnostic manual is used by mental health professionals. It is used more widely in the USA than in the UK. "

I hope those who feel, from a casual perusal of this manual claiming to 'provide the solutions' to 'psychic disorder' that I am not attacking them personally when I state from conviction that its authors should be put under a very high-powered microscope and possibly into jail.

Whoever made the suggestion that David should contact people 'relying' on this manual would be placing him in considerable danger of him once again being swallowed up by 'the system' he has done so much to expose.

Hint: One of the authors, Donald Ewen Cameron, was an influential experimenter in the MK-ULTRA program.

Please to not assist, however inadvertently, in David's 'removal from society'

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice Thermite
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to keep being the party pooper and stating the obvious. But several people are expressing views that the gentleman in question is schizophrenic.
Well bearing in mind i dont think any of are qualified psychiatrists and also bearing in mind the individuals accepted use of skunk and magic mushrooms.
I would say that rather than self medication it is recommended that he goes and gets himself checked out.
We are not doing him any favours by offering him anecdatal remedies, that is probably what has contributed to the problem, far better he goes to a shrink and discusses his issues and gets into rehab and detox and hopefully once rehabilitated he will be much wiser and ready for action.
Drugs like skunk and mushrooms can make any sane person round the twist.
But as you guys know him better one of you has to tell him straight up to get him checked into a clinic and do it quickly rather than watch him get worse and worse.

As i have seen many drug users destroy their lives. I expect when he goes through detox his schizophrenia will probably disappear too. But please whoever is close to him get him into rehab asap.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What stands out in this thread more than anything else is that we are sticking together. The is a general unanimous understanding about what David is going through and no-one has taken the traditional stand point and given David Shayler the David Icke treatment.

Progress!

This is truly noteworthy as it marks some real growth and progress as a movement and dare I say TEAM? To me it shows that we have real strength and compassion; something vital if we are to acheive our goal. Take a breath and thank Mr Shayler for that if nothing else (Perhaps a little nod to Mr Icke for the advanced insight too).


For many here, what David has done in Glastonbury comes as no big suprise. Like myself I feel that many posters here are now feeling some sense of relief that he has finally squeezed the spot which he has been cultivating for sometime. Many too have said that they recognise what David is going through, because of their own individual awakening experience (spiritual or otherwise) and that he requires love, patience and understanding from us all. I could not agree more. I had my 'purple period' in the early nineties and at one point I felt incredibly connected to everything. It was wonderful for my inner growth but it confused the hell out of my ego.

The unfortuanate thing, from the perspective of those who feel David should take a break or be ousted in some way the campaign, is that I doubt this will happen at least in the short term. More patience will be required from us all as he gains a wider view on what is occuring (to him). He is in freefall or even freeflight at the moment. It is impossible to know where he'll land and the nature of the impact. But it will occur be assured of that. I would suggest that those of us who feel that David Shayler has got more to offer concerning 911 Truth, be it in the medium and long term, need to provide him with something of a saftey blanket to jump into. I appreciate that there will be those who would not entertain this idea but this is what make the universe interesting I suppose.

Regarding opinions on what he should do: Telling someone to take some time out is like asking an alchoholic to attend the 12 step programme. Its not going to happen! People will not do anything until they are good and ready. They only person who knows what is right for David Shayler is David Shayler.

For me, its more about what we do or don't do as opposed to shouting the man down. David is not in a tangible zone at the moment. Lets save our energies for tangible debate and keep the ship sailing.

Now where did I put that large blanket?

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Thermate911
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
As i have seen many drug users destroy their lives. I expect when he goes through detox his schizophrenia will probably disappear too. But please whoever is close to him get him into rehab asap.


Despite recent positive comments about how well we are dealing with this new occurrence 'as a team' I find this entire comment by stelios here is quite unacceptable within any self aware community.

By what right do you say he is destroying his life?

By what right do you claim to know his exact circumstance?

By what right do you offer advice that could COST him his life?
.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish Dave all the best as ever.

This reminds me of 2 things this movement has taught me.

1. Diversity is our strength

2. Judge ye not
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many Messiahs already? Ve should be so lucky!

Good to see so many supportive posts, especially Watcher, b, and Thermite.

I have a bit of 'form' on this. In 1967 I set off overland for Australia, to 'start a new life', after commiting armed robberies in '63 & '64. I got as far as Salonika, and joined some folks en route for Istanbul. They had convinced me it was difficult to hitch, and to share a London black cab which ran a shuttle service Salonika/Istanbul for the princely sum of $5. Well, it dropped us off at the 'Old Gulhane', the most notorious drug hotel in Istanbul (it's now demolished). My planned 3 day stopover became a 28 day drug-filled delirium (including an OD, 'near-death experience and 'light at the end of the tunnel'). I was on the 'Hippy Trail'!

From there I meandered around the Mid-East, opium den on Beirut beach, Damascus, Jerusalem, brief detention in Aqaba when I strayed too near the Israeli border, fire put out by plainclothes police when I was cooking boiled eggs for breakfast on the beach (in case of smoke signals to Israel, but it was February '67, just four months before the Six-Day War, and the tension was apparent), Bagdad, Mashad, Herat. Kandahar, Kabul, Pakistan (including Quetta), India and eventual repatriation (after trying to do myself in; I've got the scars to prove it). I suspect I also almost had another OD after injecting morphine, smoking opium and copious quantities of hash (to give an idea, top quality Afghan hash was £1 for 100 grams; amps of morphine could be bought in Afghan chemists for 10p) which I avoided by injecting ephidrine. Mustn't forget the 'acid'!!

Back in blighty, Old Bailey, Sections 60 & 65 (for armed robberies), and 3 years in mental hospitals, diagnosed 'paranoid schitzophrenic' (we are a rum bunch in 9/11 Truth!!).

My advice to David would be to get through this on his own, but to accept advice and help from his close friends. I didn't trust the shrinks, and was uncooperative but not disruptive in my 3-year stint. The vast majority of shrinks don't understand the spiritual dimension, which is what all this is about.

I eventually began to come out of my crisis when I became incensed over the cold-blooded murders on Bloody Sunday; then became aware of Chile and the Greek Colonels. Slowly I came out of myself and became more and more involved with Human Rights campaigns. Eh voila! Here I am.

My experiences and insights have taught me that drugs, far from being a beneficial 'expanding of the mind' and bringing insights into our 'inner self', are Satanic deceptions, leading us up the garden path, fooling us into believing we can 'be like Gods' (come on Satan, you might have fooled Eve, but us in the 20th century? Gotta hand it to ya, boyo, you're right, we do fall for the 'three-card-trick' time after time).

My position as a Christian is that this world is a trial; that Satan has all the aces, rewards those who serve him and plagues those who don't. But 'what doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?' As Jesus also said, 'if you would follow me, take up your cross and follow me' (not 'take up your sword or B52 and conquer the Holy Land').

I hope someone brings this post to Dave's attention; David, don't let the b****** grind you down. You're a hell of a thorn in their side; try and get some R&R; take advice from those you trust, and give the drugs a break (preferably a long one). My very best wishes to you, mate. You've got a lot of friends and admirers in the Truth movement.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Covered at Screwloosechange

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/07/shayler-goes-icke.html

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the 'outsider',

Hey, Paul.......you shocked me there...........robbing banks, 'tripping' your way through Asia and the entire Middle East?........Blimey.....,

......and you are such a sensible and generous fellow now.


What an interesting bunch 9/11 truthers are. I suppose we could hardly be entirely normal. 'Normal' people will join this train when it is a little easier to get on.



Like yourself, I have some 'form' in this department (of which we are speaking). I don't want to go into any detail about myself now but would like to say this.
When I talked to David he struck me as a very serious and deep-thinking individual who is probably incapable of intellectual dishonesty. He seems to speak his mind in an almost compulsive fashion. He has done a great deal for us all and he has, up to his last 'gig', done it very well IMO.

Right now he needs our spiritual backing. I hope not too many will be offended by the suggestion that we pray for him. It sounds as if the crisis he is in could go 'either way'. This is a very, very serious time for him.

People here have used the term 'schizophrenia' to describe his condition.

Actually during the ecstatic phase a person is not schizophrenic. The illness begins after the individual has passed through the stage of imagining that they might be 'Jesus Christ' or some other holy person (I've known Scizophrenics who imagined, for a short while, that they were the Virgin Mary, St. Paul, St. Joseph and a couple of Jesuses[of course]) and then, realising the silliness, perhaps the blasphemy of and, particularly, the danger to others that their abberant spiritual condition might cause if they admit to themselves that they do not understand the ecstacy that holds them and that therefore it might, in fact, be the Devil that is making them think these ridiculous things about themselves......the person who is about to become schizophrenic attacks themselves by witholding normal affirmation, by deciding to be someone other than they actually are. They will not feel their own feelings and speak their own thoughts. They will, they must, be somebody else.

This, of course, is a strategy that can never work. Extreme illness is inevitable once this has happened inside an individual....or to put it more clearly, once an individual has done this to him- or herself.

However, the ecstatic phase is normally a reaction to some great psychological crisis (perhaps drugs, by themselves, can bring this stuff on....I don't know). The feelings of the ecstatic need to be accepted, and the ego-centric thoughts that tend to go with this heightened consciousness need to be directed away from the ego towards 'God' or 'the beautiful and benign Universe' or some other external point of reference.
The great error here is for the person to identify with the condition. Rather in the way that if one has great talents, say, it is unbecoming and actually untruthful not to be simply grateful for the gift of these talents. The person who uses these talents as a justification for going around with the attitude, "I'm great, I am" is not only obnoxious but a fool with it. There is real truth in humility.

Christ himself took no credit for his brilliance, magical powers, goodness, magnetism etc:

And Christ said to the disciples, "What do the people say about me?"
"They say you are good, master", Peter answered.
"I am not good. Only God is good"

Here is the very deepest wisdom. The man who knew he was nothing without the mysterious Spirit of God that inhabited him.

We are all connected to this spirit to varying degrees.

It is fairly clear that this connection is particularly powerful for David at this time. The born-again Christian or Muslim or whatever can accept the miracle of this experience and go on to use the power that it gives them to often do great things for their fellow man
The schizophrenic is the person who (quite naturally in this unhelpful, uncomprehending Godless world) is frightened into destroying themselves by the terror of a false possibility.

David, my friend, God is with you. Many, mostly broken, souls have experienced and been saved by the great blessing that you now feel in you. If you can make yourself the servant rather than the master of this Spirit all will be well with you......and it will be great for us too.

It is natural that any person will have difficulty mentally coping with such an experience. What is MOST important is that you do not turn on yourself. This is the action that causes the disaster that so many suffer.....and, by God, the suffering of these people, self-stripped of their protective light, is great. They become lost to the demons that know only too well how to exploit an individuals deepest fears.

I lost 20 years of my life. The situation ended when I was subject to a deliverance ritual by a Christian exorcist.

Take care, David, and never stop loving yourself.

We need you back here.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

b* just lost a long post. Won't type it all again now but just to say

Firstly I'm pleased to see the tolerance and support for David. I haven't seen David for a few months or been party to recent events but if I had I would share any insights or advice for him in private. This announcement will undoubtedly damage in the short term David's credibility and effectiveness as a truth campaigner but this is matter largely for David and not a problem for the campaign. When the MSM pick up on this as they undoubtedly will and when they ridicule David as they undoubtedly will David will need to stay strong and trust in the support and guidance of those closest to him and there is no reason why the interest generated will not work to our benefit. What should David do next? That is for David to decide but I wish him well

In times like this I'm reminded of the wisdom of Brian (PBUH)

FOLLOWERS: Brian! Brian! Brian!...
BRIAN: Good morning.
FOLLOWERS: A blessing! A blessing! A blessing!...
BRIAN: No. No, please! Please! Please listen. I've got one or two things to say.
FOLLOWERS: Tell us. Tell us both of them.
BRIAN: Look. You've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we're all individuals!
BRIAN: You're all different!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different!
DENNIS: I'm not.
ARTHUR: Shhhh.
FOLLOWERS: Shh. Shhhh. Shhh.
BRIAN: You've all got to work it out for yourselves!
FOLLOWERS: Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!
BRIAN: Exactly!
FOLLOWERS: Tell us more!
BRIAN: No! That's the point! Don't let anyone tell you what to do! Otherwise-- Ow! No!
MANDY: Come on, Brian. That's enough. That's enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately this thread seems to be the primary source for all blogging re: this story.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Some amazingly insightful posts here!

Stelios, your faith in the psychiatric profession is touching but, I fear, undeserved. The prevailing ethos in the profession is that drugs prescribed by the medical profession, are the answer to these states of mind and that any perception that one is receiving messages from God/Christ/Allah/Brahman/Higher Intelligence is purely delusional because, as all good scientists know, God does not exisit.
Sadly, anyone in this state of mind would be extremely lucky to meet a psychiatrist such as the late Dr Carl Gustav Jung who spent his life studying spiritual experiences and guiding his patients towards sanity in dealing with such experiences.

Having spent some time in this kind of state of mind in the 1970s, a state which was triggered initially by psychedelic drugs but which eventually led me to reject them, I was personally led to a non-doctrinaire spiritual society, The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) where I found others with whom I could explore spiritual insights. It also became a home base from where I could explore the spirituality of diverse traditions. Here I learnt the importance of meditation and prayer and also of humility. I came to the conclusion that we all have at the very centre of our being the presence of the God "I AM". That may be contacted by anyone who sincerely turns towards it. It is a universal principle, not confined to any one spiritual tradition, and is described in various ways which may superficially sound mutually exclusive between the various traditions, but which in fact all refer to the same principle. All the traditions have their mystics, though mysticism tends to be frowned upon by priests and church hierarchies.

I offer some words from an eighteenth century American Quaker, the anti-slavery campaigner John Woolman, not as a doctrine or in any spirit of this being the only way (as so many religious groups claim of their tradition) but as an insight from one tradition which for me throws some light on the others and on the apparent contradictions between the various traditions:

"The Universal Light" "There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath different names; it is, however, pure and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no forms of religion nor excluded from any where the heart stands in perfect sincerity. In whomsoever this takes root and grows, of what nation soever, they become brethren."
John Woolman, 1762

And I must endorse what Ian has so aptly reminded us about with his Life of Brian quote: "We’ve got to work it out for ourselves."
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

01/08/07
All the sympathy and support for Dave in his time of 'crisis' is great! however we must bear in mind that our hero himself doesn't realise there is a crisis or that there's anything wrong at all, the opposite in fact! Still less that he needs help, TLC, guidance, treatment etc., the good advice set out above would be totally wasted on him.

In psychosis one of the first things to go is what psychiatrists refer to as 'insight', the ability to see yourself from the outside and as others see you, to measure your behaviour against social norms, hence by extrapolation realise when you are ill. Actually Annie tells me this has never been David's strong suit anyway - at the same time, it’s probably been a contributing factor in enabling him to do what he's done.

For the moment the main job of his carer/s will be to keep him away from platforms & microphones (a quiet regime of writing in the depths of the country would indeed be best!), keep him off the skunk but above all keep him out of mental hospital because that's the real danger – once he’s sectioned and pumped full of anti-psychotic drugs he'll be even less able to think rationally and those drugs have a terrible effect on things like will and drive, I've seen that at first hand.

I gather he’s accepted an invitation to talk on Iranian TV tonight, again that shows a lack of sensitivity and judgement, in contrast to William’s wise decision to steer clear of the murderous regime (200 people publicly hanged in July, 2 stonings, hundreds of street protesters under torture in prison including women appealing their rights – ugh)

(Actually if he comes out with guff and embarrasses the Iranian officials I for one wouldn’t be unhappy!!!)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skeptic wrote:
Unfortunately this thread seems to be the primary source for all blogging re: this story.


True. And whilst IMO this is a suitable place to discuss what if anything this means for British campaigning, any personal insights, advice and support for David himself is best directed to David directly and not via this thread.
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