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Founding Declaration of All Faiths for 911 Truth

 
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Keith Mothersson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Founding Declaration of All Faiths for 911 Truth Reply with quote

Dear Friends,
Pending a pdf with professional design and photo, I am pleased that we have finalised the text of an 4-page A4 brochure intended to help members of faith and interfaith circles raise the issue of 9/11 with their co-religionists or interfaith interlocutors. For too long Muslims have held back from 'Interfaith' owing to the justified suspicion that it was being heavily backed by the Home Office (don't mention the war) in order to 'civilise' and 'tame' these pesky Muslims who keep letting bombs off.

Now I hope that Muslim brothers and sisters will group together and strategise about finding allies and how to take the lead locally in their religious bodies and also in Interfaith meetings/newsletters, etc. (Nafeez Ahmed's Subverting "Terrorism" paper (google it) is a vital resource for getting well-meaning but naive Christians, etc to question the assumption that there is anything specially 'Islamic' about international terrorism - in the light of Operaton Gladio, the Force Reconniassance Unit in Northern Ireland, Mossad's history of False-flag Terroism, etc. Anyway, here is the Declaration and we look forward to hearing from you in due course:

Violence can only be concealed by a lie,
and the lie can only be maintained by violence.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn (Russian Orthodox Christian)

ALL FAITHS FOR 9/11 TRUTH

“Thou shalt not commit false witness” - Holy Bible

Please take the time to consider this leaflet, because one way or another, 9/11 matters!

As everyone was reeling from the shocking events of September 11, politicians and the corporate media instantly framed them as an iconic ‘Attack on America’, i.e. something justifying an international response, rather than, say, ‘the Manhattan murders’, necessitating good domestic policework. The upshot has been a new global Crusade (‘War on Terror’) involving invasion, occupation, torture, increased racism and Islamophobia, the curtailment of civil liberties and the accumulation of emergency powers in the US of which Hitler would have been envious.

But who really was behind Sept 11? Terrorists for sure – because harmless civilian people died. But Arab fanatics misusing the religion of Islam? or was 9/11 an example of ‘false-flag terrorism’ by a public/private network of agency insiders using secret hi-tech capable of making huge buildings disintegrate into dust in front of our eyes, and aiming to make Arab Muslims look bad so as to kick-start a geo-political crusade whose real aims were oil, money, drugs and world control?

Do you find this latter possibility disturbing, ridiculous, scary?

All of us have a deep yearning to rest secure in the certainty of being protected by people we can utterly trust. Such feelings are natural, but they become unhealthy when we look to inappropriate parental figures such as governments, broadcasters and ‘experts’ to meet these needs and when we cling to states of denial about real abuses.

Now that the US-UK lies about WMD have been officially admitted in the cases of Iraq and Iran, lovers of Peace will do well to re-examine the story which these same people told us about the 9/11 AMD (Act of Mass Destruction), which was the official reason given for invading Afghanistan.

“Ye who are conscious of God – If a fasiq [untrustworthy violent person] comes to you with alarming news, make sure you verify their word, lest you afflict people out of your ignorance, and regret your actions.” - Holy Qu’ran, Surah 49:6

So, if you have tended to take the word of these mainstream media sources which brought us Saddam’s WMD, may we please humbly beg you to overcome any ingrained feelings of contempt (‘crazy conspiracy theories’!) which these same media may have inculcated in you, and invite you to check whether your belief in the official Bin Laden conspiracy theory is as well founded as you have hitherto assumed.

We ask this as people of various faiths, in the trust that your faith mandates you to care enough to want to mitigate the damage done to our world by 9/11, and will also enable you to be open enough to reconsider the Official (and other) theories about Sept 11 according to reason and evidence.

‘…. and the Truth shall make you [us] free’

Interfaith Declaration

WE THE PEOPLE OF DIVERSE FAITH TRADITIONS


Gathered on the sixth anniversary of September 11th at Carrington St Al-Furqan mosque in Glasgow, Scotland

Committed in a spirit of Interfaith respect and dialogue to bring to bear the best insights of our spiritual traditions in the search for peace, justice and truth and against all forms of terrorism;

Aware of the value placed in all our traditions on the preciousness of life and thus on defending harmless people from attack from whatever source or sources, using whatever supposed justifications and whatever kinds of technology, large or small, publicly displayed or secretly deployed;

Mindful of the harmful effects, not solely of giving out false witness and racist rumours which collectively blame all the members of an ethnic or religious group, but also of naively accepting such deceptions and passing them on uncritically;

Recalling that several States have long histories of procuring war through the dissemination of lies and the staging of false-flag terror attacks as pretexts for wars and imperial expansion;

Believing that only the truth honours the dead and protects the living from an increased likelihood of the repetition of terrorist events staged so as to ignite new wars or mounted in falsely claimed ’retaliation’;

Valuing not solely the role in our individual lives of true Faith and deep Acceptance of reality beyond our current preconceptions, but also such related qualities and collective practices as
• independent inquiry,
• critical thinking in a spirit of discernment,
• ability to tolerate uncertainty and
• steadfastness in following the trails revealed by evidence and reason
even at the cost of being ridiculed, marginalised or threatened by those in power or those who subconsciously over-identify with the perspectives of those with most power;

Humbly aware of all our need for sensitive mutual support as we grow out of unconscious denial, and begin to face up to the frightening and painful truths surrounding 911, including the role of virtually all mainstream Western media in suppressing the voices of whistleblowers and those who question the official story of this pivotal tragedy;

Seeking no partisan or power-political objective but moved by the terrible suffering which has resulted from the ‘war on terror’ and thus

Resolving to embark on a healing non-violent ‘jihad’ (campaign) of ‘right speech’, which has been known as ‘a word of truth to an oppressive ruler’ by Muslims and ‘speaking truth to power’ by Quakers;

We therefore Declare
that in the absence of any credible evidence [see below] we can no longer go along with the official conspiracy theory and myth of the Manhattan murders of Sept 11th 2001 as ‘an attack on America’ by 19 Arab/Muslim hijackers masterminded by Osama bin-Laden;

that, although there is much that we don’t know about what really happened on Sept 11, we are now in a position, due to the clear evidence of the speed of the destruction of the triple towers (Buildings 1, 2 and 7), to rule out with complete certainty the official conspiracy theory that the towers ‘fell in a gravity-driven collapse’ consequent upon fire and ‘aircraft damage’;

that despite Hollywood elaboration of hijacker legends we have no good evidence of any Arab hijackers that fateful day and every reason not to jump to racist or Islamophobic conclusions that these terrible murders must have been done by Arab/Muslim fanatics motivated by hope of religious salvation in an afterlife;

And so We Appeal
to all people of goodwill and of faith and to all practitioners involved in Interfaith dialogue and organised networks ….
 Do not leave one faith-community under the burden of supposedly having some special connection to September 11th and the phenomenon of international terrorism;

 Grasp with us the nettle of 9/11 Truth, and join us in an overdue journey of self-education, not just into the truth about 9/11, but also into the mental and emotional resistances which so many of us experience when asked to awaken to the crimes and deceptions of the powerful;

 Use the truth about 9/11 as a portal to further, deeper realisations about the state of our world today and what we people of faith can do to
• reduce fear and help to heal ‘clash of civilisations’ divisions,
• establish the centrality of accountable truthfulness in public life, and
• build a diverse alliance of civilisations capable of ending war and bringing sustainable peace and economic justice to the affairs of our one troubled, beautiful, threatened world.

If you feel this Declaration goes further than you or your faith group feel happy to go at this time, please feel free to adapt it, or for example, the following shorter version:

We People of Faith who believe in Peace Declare

Our conviction that whether or not religion was a factor in causing 9/11, the great religions of the world can and must draw on and share their spiritual resources so as jointly to help to put an end to terrorism of all kinds;
Our readiness to study the truth of 9/11 from a wide variety of literature, DVDs, websites, presentations, etc and not solely the mainstream media,
Our willingness to engage in dialogue about 9/11 and the ‘war on terror’ with people of other backgrounds,
Our support for authoritative and genuinely independent inquiries into what really happened on 9/11 and with other high-profile terrorist incidents and scares before and since (such as Omagh, the London bombings of July 7th 2005 and the ‘binary liquids’ planes scare of August 2006, etc);
And our solidarity with any faith-community which finds itself collectively blamed for events which may or may not have been carried out by any of its members in the first place!
And in the unhappy event of further terrorist murders we appeal to all community leaders, journalists, and members of all faiths and none, NOT to jump to automatic conclusions about who has really been behind them, but to consider with open minds the possibility of some or other degree of involvement from secret state, corporate and private networks (which may have ranged from encouragement, instigation, assistance, allowing, carrying it out entirely).

‘You must be a Conspiracy Theorist!’

The official story is itself a conspiracy theory, one with NO trustworthy evidence to support it. The charge of being a ‘conspiracy theorist’ or ‘nut’ is really a political manouevre to intimidate people from using our own minds. Truth is a spiritual discipline practised for the sake of society. Ideally we should all be able to examine every next piece of evidence or theory with an impartial mind, not pre-committed to agreeing or finding fault.

If the person you are talking with doesn’t have this frame of mind, then it will be useless to argue with him or her. Please draw their attention to their emotionally-charged reaction, and ask if there is anything we can do to help them reach a calmer place before resuming discussion. If they produce good questions and arguments, do your best to answer them – or promise to get back to them if you don’t know the answer. But if they still can’t handle a discussion, don’t compound their denial with your own denial. Try to end the discussion on a positive note, by reference to some fact or value we can all agree on, and wishing them well.

Remember: We are not alone! There is a huge worldwide movement called the 9/11 Truth Movement, which is supported by hundreds of top statesmen, officials, generals, ex-CIA, professors, etc (see www.patriotsquestion911.com/ ) who have come out against the government’s story of 9/11, which polls show most people in the US now disbelieve. Even so we are likely to encounter psychological resistance to the truth about 9/11 among our co-religionists, requiring us to proceed with patience, emotional sensitivity and skill.

In The Psychology of Patriotic Denial Tova Gabrielle draws on expertise in the psychologies of addiction, religious cults, mind control, and hypnosis to explain how an entire country was duped or ‘psy-oped’, and how to recover our perspectives.

” We citizens are expected to observe the unspoken but classic rules that protect the alcoholic head of the family: “Don’t talk, don’t think, don’t feel.” …
The longer we delude ourselves and try to avoid our pain, the greater is the infection we that we create within our collective psyche. ….we need to become willing to give up our sense of false security in order to stop living a huge lie. Otherwise, we will remain, like children of alcoholics, afraid of our feelings of powerlessness. ….
No more “intelligence failures.” It is healthy to get mad, but use that fuel wisely: Get creative and spread the truth. We can’t heal what we can’t feel. We can’t change what we won’t even dare to imagine.” http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/POPD.html

Resources for further study

Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action, David Ray Griffin (Westminster John Knox Press, July 2006, ISBN 0664231179); see also his Debunking 9/11 Debunking (Arris Books, Glos, 2007, ISBN 978 184437 069 6) or google his 9/11 Myth and Reality.

9/11 and American Empire, Vol 2: Christians, Jews and Muslims Speak Out; eds. Kevin Barrett, John Cobb Jr and Sandra Lubarsky (Olive Branch Press, Mass, USA ISBN 978 1 56656 660 5)

www.Mujca.com/ – lively interfaith website for 911 truth, now moving to Christian leadership after initial Muslim lead (the site contains many of the articles in above book, look especially for the very enlightening articles by Kevin Barrett, Faiz Khan and Nafeez Ahmed).
More generally: www.911scholars.org/ - Scholars for 911 Truth – see especially the work of Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds about the World Trade Centre complex. See also www.911truth.org/ or www.911truthcampaign.net/ – British and Irish campaign website.

On False-flag Terrorism see Webster Tarpley’s 9/11 Synthetic Terror – Made in USA and Nato’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe, D. Ganser (Frank Cass, 2005).

Current Contact people

Acting Secretary AFF911T (also Buddhist contact): 01738 783677 2b Darnhall Cres, Perth, PH2 0HH keith[dot]mothersson[at]phonecoop[dot]coop ;
Christian: (ret) Bishop Michael Hare-Duke 01738 622642 bishmick[at]blueyonder[dot]co[dot]uk; Catholics: Kevin Boyle kevinboyle18[at]gmail[dot]com 0208 654 0944 (if out please leave name and number); Quakers: Noel Glynn xmasdale[at]aol[dot]com 0207 652 0319.
Muslim: Imam Mustaqeem Shah mmshah73[at]hotmail[at]com or Haq Ghani haqg[at]msn[dot]com 07968 601372.

Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Humanist and other contact people actively encouraged, also alternates, local contacts,etc [8/1/08 CE]

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Keith Mothersson
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Funding urgently sought Reply with quote

Earlier offer of design help failed to materialise: so noiw we must get a move onto have copies available for giving out on march 15th, for example, both in Glasgow and London.

We will need around £800 for 10,000 copies (cheapest colour quote so far, it would incorporate two pictures). Or £695 for black on white or pastel.

Current proposal is for an A5 8 page booklet as I think this is more likely to be tuckable into bibles, more likely to be kept than something the size of the latest advertising sheet from Lidl.

Please consider if you can chip in, we can send you a batch as soon as ready. Also if you have design skills you can help with this weekend or Monday.

cheers, keith

PS Please note that we hope to esptablish sub-fora for people of various faiths, e.g. Buddhists wanting to discuss general matters of faith/interfaith and 911 would post here, but if they want to discuss how to approach other Buddhists with other Buddhists they would probably prefer to go here:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=108518#108518

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Keith Mothersson
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Appeal for funding to print this document Reply with quote

We hope very soon to publish this Declaration and Appeal as an 8-pp a5 little booklet - in colour with photo, so it looks credible.

10,000 copies if possible.

I have a pledge of £200 from a Muslim in the West Midlands, and a follow up to our foundation meeting is planned for the second week in March in Glasgow, at which we should get more organised, and I have been told money should be forthcoming. I also have two debts of total around £400 coming to me in March, which can pay loans back if all else fails.

But next week (first week in March) I want to be in a position to commission the work - for £800 plus a little - so that it is available for that meeting (launch meeting) and then in Glasgow and London for the StoptheWar demos and also for 911 truth activists to take certain numbers off with them to their neck of the woods. (Naturally we won't just dish them out willy nilly, but one can often spot faith groups at demos, and IMO every local group should be concerned to make at leasst some faith community contacts.)

Many thanks,
Keith Mothersson (cheques to keith Forrester-Paton NB)
2b Darnhall Cres, Perth PH2 0HH or 07815 653389
01738 783677

SO CAN ANY OF YOU GOOD PEOPLE PICK UP THE PHONE AND RING ME (as they say) to either offer a donation, or a loan NOW so it can clear the banks in time for me to take the money in to the printer to print it (they need the money upfront)?

I would also value a spot of professional help or advice with the layout - my current helper is himself learning the ropes, I suspect. I think it will look Okay as is, but everything can be improved.

All the best, keith

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Keith Mothersson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Doc. version of our booklet now available Reply with quote

For PDF - too big to send this way - please e-mail me directly at keith[dot]mothersson[at]phonecoop[dot]coop

It looks great by the way.

Will hope to see people on Sat 15th on the StoptheWar march/rally, where I will be giving the booklet out to faith group contingents.

Salaam, Shalom, Slaama!



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Founding Declaration of All Faiths for 911 Truth Reply with quote

keith Mothersson wrote:
Resources for further study...

More generally: www.911scholars.org/ - Scholars for 911 Truth – see especially the work of Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds about the World Trade Centre complex.


Why not link to the infinitely more credible work of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice featuring respected proponents of the scientific method such as Kevin Ryan, Steven Jones, Frank Legge, etc and the founder of Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth Richard Gage?

'Especially the work of Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds'

You mean 'especially' space beams and no-planes i take it? Shocked

If you genuinely want to bring people on board why spoil an interesting leaflet promoting junk science already comprehensively debunked from within the movement?

Noel and Kevin i'm surprised you've put your name to this!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Please don't bring discord into this thread Reply with quote

Gareth,
It would be one thing to say:

Do people realise that there is another side to Scholars for 911 Truth?, and give their URL.

It is another thing to be abusive of what you consider 'junk science'.

You are welcome to post a few links , as I will too [below]. Say four or five apiece? Then we can agree to disagree and people can make their own minds up.

But beyond that I suggest we encourage new people to use this thread for purposes of discussing the religious outreach issues, and go to other threads for purposes of challenging or supporting the science/physics, etc of 9/11.

If people feel liable to dismiss Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds's work, please check out some of the following links:

www.drjudywood.com
(Arguably the most highly qualified scientist in the truth movement [civil and mechanical engineering; also materials science and enginering] has observed an amazing range of weird physical phenomena which occrurred around Manhattan on Sept 11, at least one of which is still occurring - can't be switched off!; Dr Wood is engaged in an important court case to challenge the official story of how the towers fell. She also challenges the controlled demoltion theory advanced by Prof Steven Jones, whose supporters are quick to ridicule her hypothesis of some kind of directed energy weapon - as Gareth has done here)

www.nomoregames.net/
(Ex-top-economist in Bush'es first adminstration now believes that the entire hi-jacked planes story was a scam - and together with Materials Scientist Rick Rajter has plenty of reasons to back up his view and court case. Reynolds has analysed witness reports in detail.)

www.checktheevidence.com/
(British researcher has done important work sifting through the witness evidence about people who supposedly saw planes hit the towers.)

www.acebaker.com/9-11/ABPlaneStudy/Chopper5Velocity2.html
(Detailed study of Fox News'es video fakery concerning 'plane' hitting South Tower)

In my judgement the best book which is OPEN to the new physical evidence and doubts on 9/11 is 9/11 Conspiracy: The Scamming of America, edited by James H Fetzer, Catfeet Press, Illinois, 2007.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scholars for 9/11 truth and Justice promotes the molten metal bogus story and no member of that group has pending legal cases.

Hence, there is little truth and no justice. Hardly surprising when you consider the history of the group:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=content&task=vi ew&id=28

Who are you Gareth? Have you evaluated all the evidence? Have you been involved in submitting court affidavits at all?

Or do we just do what people who believe the official story do? We look at some evidence, ignore the rest and "stick with the story we like"? Great.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Scholars for 9/11 truth and Justice promotes the molten metal bogus story and no member of that group has pending legal cases.

Hence, there is little truth and no justice. Hardly surprising when you consider the history of the group:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=content&task=vi ew&id=28

Who are you Gareth? Have you evaluated all the evidence? Have you been involved in submitting court affidavits at all?

Or do we just do what people who believe the official story do? We look at some evidence, ignore the rest and "stick with the story we like"? Great.


That's very rich Andrew.

Any evidence that doesn't fit in with your faction's space beams and no planes version of history is either 'bogus' (see above) or the product of liars and shills and therefore discounted.

Oh the irony.

A faction that sees fit to promote "impossible crash physics" for example, with no physicist - or any other type of scientist - on board. Judy the alleged engineer and Morgan the bean counter don't qualify.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Johnson wrote:
the molten metal bogus story


Where's the evidence that the molten metal story is bogus?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we get back to the point here - I must heartily applaud Keith's statement - a tremendous document methinks, and one that should be spread far and wide in printed form. Beautiful stuff. Maybe some kind of pledge on the web for people to sign up to as well?

Could you please send us a bunch down here in Bristol if possible - have you thought about setting up a paypal account, much as I distrust them, for this initiative?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Please don't bring discord into this thread Reply with quote

keith Mothersson wrote:
Gareth,
It would be one thing to say:

Do people realise that there is another side to Scholars for 911 Truth?, and give their URL.

It is another thing to be abusive of what you consider 'junk science'.

You are welcome to post a few links , as I will too [below]. Say four or five apiece? Then we can agree to disagree and people can make their own minds up.

But beyond that I suggest we encourage new people to use this thread for purposes of discussing the religious outreach issues, and go to other threads for purposes of challenging or supporting the science/physics, etc of 9/11.

If people feel liable to dismiss Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds's work, please check out some of the following links:

www.drjudywood.com
(Arguably the most highly qualified scientist in the truth movement [civil and mechanical engineering; also materials science and enginering] has observed an amazing range of weird physical phenomena which occrurred around Manhattan on Sept 11, at least one of which is still occurring - can't be switched off!; Dr Wood is engaged in an important court case to challenge the official story of how the towers fell. She also challenges the controlled demoltion theory advanced by Prof Steven Jones, whose supporters are quick to ridicule her hypothesis of some kind of directed energy weapon - as Gareth has done here)

www.nomoregames.net/
(Ex-top-economist in Bush'es first adminstration now believes that the entire hi-jacked planes story was a scam - and together with Materials Scientist Rick Rajter has plenty of reasons to back up his view and court case. Reynolds has analysed witness reports in detail.)

www.checktheevidence.com/
(British researcher has done important work sifting through the witness evidence about people who supposedly saw planes hit the towers.)

www.acebaker.com/9-11/ABPlaneStudy/Chopper5Velocity2.html
(Detailed study of Fox News'es video fakery concerning 'plane' hitting South Tower)

In my judgement the best book which is OPEN to the new physical evidence and doubts on 9/11 is 9/11 Conspiracy: The Scamming of America, edited by James H Fetzer, Catfeet Press, Illinois, 2007.


gareth wrote:


If you genuinely want to bring people on board why spoil an interesting leaflet promoting junk science already comprehensively debunked from within the movement?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: I don't agree Reply with quote

Gareth, I posted my post before I had realised that your evidence was in the article on 911 Blogger which underlay the words 'comprehensively debunked' .

I think it would be a bit for this dispute to soil the atmosophere for 'new people' who come on to the site. Let us fight it out elsewhere, but for this thread let's say that strong differences exist, but we can all agree on the speed of destruction of the three towers as bieng our strongest evidence.

I hope we can also agree with Elias Davidson's article
http://www.aldeilis.net/english/images/stories/911/noevidence.pdf
and many other analysts who say that there is no evidence of hijackers on the day, just patsies being lined up to be the suicde hijacker suspects post event.

(I know some people find it a bit too much for me to claim that it is racism to continue to believe in hi-jackers - but if people keep believing, say Jews, were behind a given crime, because they had heard it from others, etc, but no evidence could be brought, then wouldn't we want to say that that accuser was guilty of anti-semitism? (Arabs also being semites, incidentally.))

Chek should know that Reynold's paper about We Have some holes in the Planes story was co-authroed with Rick Rajter, who has a B.S. and is completing his PhD in Materials Science and Engineering.

Anyway, hope to see some of you at the London demonstration, where I plan to give out lots of AllFaiths Booklets to those who can use them for dialogue/involvement of people of faith. And to faith contingents on the rally, of course. Please take big wodges home with you if you can use them in that way

Cheers, keith

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Please don't bring discord into this thread Reply with quote

gareth wrote:


If you genuinely want to bring people on board why spoil an interesting leaflet promoting junk science already comprehensively debunked from within the movement?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Founding Declaration of All Faiths for 911 Truth Reply with quote

gareth wrote:

Noel and Kevin i'm surprised you've put your name to this!


Oops! I am very conscious that I have not given this matter as much attention as I would have liked. I did not spot before publication that this document was promoting only one of two scholars' websites between which controversy rages. I have not studied the science myself and if I had I doubt I would consider myself sufficiently qualified to judge whose version of tower collapse was the more likely.

The declaration was drawn up by activists in Scotland and I allowed them to use my name because I thought it was important Quakers be associated with this initiative.

I am aware of the controversy around Stephen Jones and Judy Woods. I did not find a video of Dr Woods at all convincing, but then she might have been having an off day. Stephen Jones, on the other hand, is accused of being involved in the cover up of the evidence of cold fusion.

My main point, however, is that we don't need to prove how or why the towers fell. We have sufficient evidence to prove we have been lied to. So why do we need to publicise the controversial theories of scholars who believe they have discovered how the conjuring trick was performed? It merely publicises the divisions in this movement and gives our opponents plenty of evidence to label us convincingly with such terms as "conspiracy theorist".

On second thoughts I wish the reference to the Woods-Reynolds research alone had not been included, but we have to live with our mistakes. Reading through the declaration again just now, I see one further improvement which could be made: The term WMD is used without explanation. Those of us familiar with the War on Terror issue are of course familiar with it, but how many others now remember what it stands for, and will many reading it whose first language is not English understand its meaning?

Well we just have to accept that we have made mistakes, but in almost any endeavour one does. I think on the whole it is a good initiative and we should not let blemishes allow us to lose sight of that.

My thanks go especially to my old friend Keith.

Noel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:
That's very rich Andrew.


Where's your court case? Where's your affidavit? Why are you here Chek? What have you done here?

Nothing! Why? Because you are an anonymous, disruptive poster who misquotes, distracts and ignores evidence.

Are you aware that John Hutchison has submitted an affidavit to the court of the Southern District of New York? Do you realise what this means? It means he is prepared to go to prison if he was lying. It means he has looked at the evidence. It means he KNOWS what went down on 9/11.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ8.html

It means THE GAME IS UP. Can you understand this? Or are you going to be abusive again, arrogant and disruptive again?

WE KNOW the class of technology that was used to destroy the WTC. Do you understand what this means for everyone? It is NOW IN THE COURT FILING SYSTEM. Get it?

Free energy tech was used to destroy the World Trade Centre and the 9/11 Perps are desperate to keep this covered up. you, by ignorance, accident or design are aiding and abetting in this operation.

People like Keith are trying to do something about it - you (Chek) and other anonymous posters like you do precisely nothing. I pity you - whoever you are - I really do.

Anonymous Gareth and other Jones/Gage pushers have really nothing viable to work with.

If Lee and others want to know why the molten metal story is bogus, then watch an explanation of the evidence:


Link



Link


Or if you want faked and massaged data, pick Jones/Gage and the Journal Of Nine Eleven Studies


Link


Is someone going to post that Jenkins ambush hit video again. Yawnarama! That was exposed a year ago for what it was!

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marky 54
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the cars could'nt be towed to where they were because there is not 1,400 parking spaces around the wtc? why no mention of underground car parks, possibly under more than one of the buildings that were destroyed ? i'd imagine 1,400 parking spaces around the wtc and under the wtc's and wtc 7 etc etc is way way more than 1,400 spaces.

why does the first video start out suggesting it was nuclear bomb?
i thought it was an directed energy weapon? or some sort of technology to do with the hutchinson effect?

thats as far as i got, the none mention of underground car parks made me mad so i hit stop and thought forget it. it's just the same stuff. im like, good point, no im not sure about that, no i totally disagree.

good look with the court case. and don't forget to have an answer when the court asks the same questions or points out the same things.
a court is not a internet forum where you can just ignore people or post a silly comment and run off.

the truth is the truth, if you are right, im not going to stand in your way, even if your wrong im not going to stand in your way, all i can do is point out things i think are wrong or not thought through. but at the same time do not expect me to believe it when all i see is errors or lack of total honesty.

out of intrest, does anybody know how many parking spaces there were under all of the wtc buildings?

oh, here we are.

90. Before the 1993 bombing, there were more than 1,000 parking spaces beneath the buildings; 600 remained afterward.

http://www.theharrowgroup.com/articles/20020401/WTC_facts.htm

thats not including the other buildings which were destroyed. like wtc 7

"the WTC itself had some 2,000 parking spaces in several layers of underground garages. There were additional hundreds of spaces in other nearby private garages, to serve the many commercial and apartment buildings that had sprung up near the WTC in lower Manhattan............

New York authorities towed or hauled hundreds of damaged vehicles from the streets to a remote lot where Vehicle Identification Numbers of civilian vehicles were recorded. These VINs were fed into computers, which matched them to units insured by insurance companies licensed in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. The insurance companies then delicately contacted owners to advise them of the vehicle's location and condition and, when appropriate, counsel them to file a claim. You can well imagine that some persons contacted were, in fact, grieving survivors of those killed or missing in the WTC attack. And some owners will be unreachable - forever.
"
http://www.thecarconnection.com/?article=4416

whats the betting they were not all towed away at once? that they were moved from ground zero by tow trucks and parked away from the scene(to allow the clear up to continue) before being picked up and took of to a remote lot(or does remote lot simply mean somewhere around newyork?). trucks at the scene were there to remove cars from the scene, not to make long journeys! if remote lot means out in the sticks, other trucks would of come in to do the longer journey! or it was done at a later date! this would explain your 1 mile away cars. i bet they were running out of places that were unused, and were parking them ferther and ferther away. before they were took of to a remote lot! it makes perfect sense and is how you'd expect a clean up opperation to be run.

you don't find the evidence you ignore. why not pratice what you preach and go and check out the information?

i hope ive corrected judys error that there is not enough room for 1,400 cars around the wtc's that were within or under the wtc's collapse area, at least i accounted for underground parking area's that could of been affected.

p.s before you mention the picture of men walking underneath the towers on the first floor down(according to judy wood), it does not prove the level of destruction across the whole floor plan, nor does it prove the level of destruction in the other towers basement.

thanks for the slide show.

the 3rd video was simply a attack. nothing more to say on that one. and no that dos'nt mean i agree with s.jones. i'd rather stay out of the shill accusations and stupidity.

no doubt i'll get a ear full for disagreeing and thinking for myself.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Johnson wrote:

Where's your court case? Where's your affidavit? Why are you here Chek? What have you done here?

Nothing! Why? Because you are an anonymous, disruptive poster who misquotes, distracts and ignores evidence.


I don't believe it - a reply from Andrew Johnson. I'll just pinch myself to check I'm not imagining it. No, it's still there. Onward!

How does it go again? Ah yes - if I don't have anything credible to say, why are you attacking me so vehemently? Totally stupid, but there you go; some people seem to think it's pithy enough to deflect any criticism and adorn their website with. But certainly I've not been as busy as you Andrew, breeding armies of repeaters of your cherished NPT/NBB and space - sorry orbital beamery speculative theories.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Are you aware that John Hutchison has submitted an affidavit to the court of the Southern District of New York? Do you realise what this means? It means he is prepared to go to prison if he was lying. It means he has looked at the evidence. It means he KNOWS what went down on 9/11.

http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ8.html

It means THE GAME IS UP. Can you understand this? Or are you going to be abusive again, arrogant and disruptive again?


Let's put it this way Andrew. I'm convinced that you're convinced.
I am - how you say? - unconvinced. Mightily.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
WE KNOW the class of technology that was used to destroy the WTC. Do you understand what this means for everyone? It is NOW IN THE COURT FILING SYSTEM. Get it?


You don't "KNOW" Andrew. You choose to believe on the basis of selectively chosen evidence, which isn't the same thing at all.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Free energy tech was used to destroy the World Trade Centre and the 9/11 Perps are desperate to keep this covered up. you, by ignorance, accident or design are aiding and abetting in this operation.


Conspiracies within conspiracies within conspiracies!
You must be in 7th heaven!

Andrew Johnson wrote:
People like Keith are trying to do something about it - you (Chek) and other anonymous posters like you do precisely nothing. I pity you - whoever you are - I really do.


I suspect you're somewhat less than admired in certain circles too, Andrew.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Anonymous Gareth and other Jones/Gage pushers have really nothing viable to work with.

If Lee and others want to know why the molten metal story is bogus, then watch an explanation of the evidence:


Either you have an explanation for why you choose to ignore the inconvenient multiple witness evidence of molten metal or you don't. Please do not link to hours of half-baked video "presentations" that don't even answer the point anyway.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Or if you want faked and massaged data, pick Jones/Gage and the Journal Of Nine Eleven Studies


Ooooh spooky initials - whatever next?
Book Of Nine Eleven Research - tipping a nod and a wink to Nico's porn fetish?
Or Leaflet on Nine Eleven - hinting at some sort of masonic tie-in with Fox's Lone Gunman prescient airliner into a twin tower episode.
The imagination could run riot - as I would guess yours frequently does. What there won't be of course is some sort of rational disagreement with some of the science presented in the Journal's various papers. Hardly your style, is it Andrew.

Andrew Johnson wrote:
Is someone going to post that Jenkins ambush hit video again. Yawnarama! That was exposed a year ago for what it was!


Yes it still stands the test of time, by illustrating Wood's grasp of events on 911 and ...well, everyday life really.
Here's some further reading you probably won't enjoy.
www.journalof911studies.com/letters/ResponseGood,Bad,Ugly.pdf

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is Andrew attacking you ?

For what it's worth Chek, my opinion is that Andrew's patience with you has been exhausted.

You have a well documented history of attacking "9/11 Truth Controversies" as they are designated on this site.

Your contribution to the cause of "9/11 Truth," is, at it's very best, singularly focussed.

I too, FWIW, have been, long sick of you, your tactics and your cohorts.

Truth, of course, notwithstanding.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
Truth, of course, notwithstanding.


Quite.

And whenever the "controversies crowd" can bring themselves to cease spinning or downright fabricating information, then my tolerance for them may improve.

Until then.....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Lee and others want to know why the molten metal story is bogus, then watch an explanation of the evidence


Only just watched the first video in the list and I'm not convinced I'm afraid. I suppose it comes down to who you'd rather believe...

A woman showing one photograph of a small area of ground zero and saying there was no molten metal or the firefighters who were there who said they saw it "running down the channel rails" and of course the video of firefighters stood on smoking, smoldering rubble and saying "it's red hot".

Also, I'm not convinced about "the cylindrical cut-outs" either. They don't really appear until they're conveniently outlined by red circles transposed onto where they are supposedly meant to be.

Some of the "toasted cars" could have been caused by burning debris from the massive fiery explosions caused by...the planes (sorry) loaded with fuel hitting the buildings.Some of it may have traveled and burnt the cars.

I and many others still ponder upon the buildings seemingly turning to dust and I'm still scratching my head over that one. But to say there was no steel at ground zero seems a bit outlandish. Even in the pictures Wood uses you can see it.

In fact she says there wasn't any then shows pictures of "strange" beams in them.

It's true that there are many anomalies around ground zero and to be fair I wouldn't totally rule out the use of DEW. I find it a more plausible theory than video fakery and no planes.

But, if your going to say that 9/11 was the new Hiroshima then how many cases are there of radiation sickness in people at ground zero? There was anything up to 350,000 at Hiroshima. Has anyone run a Geiger counter over the area yet?

Could sort out the speculation wouldn't you say?
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