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C21 Illuminati - fact or fantasy?
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Moti
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: C21 Illuminati - fact or fantasy? Reply with quote

The ILLUMINATI has made us DULL to SIMPLE TRUTH


Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRqqJNZeQjg
download from here
http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/mpeg/acarya4_clip.wmv

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5162419906018968599&hl=en-GB

But you have to change this body. Tatha dehantara-praptih. We are eternal. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. The soul does not take birth; neither it dies. We simply change body. Tatha dehantara-praptih. Just like we are changing our body. In mother's womb we had a small body. It grows, and we come out. Again it grows. Grows...It is not actually growing, it is changing. The child is changing his body to baby, the baby is changing his body to boy, and the boy is changing his body to youthhood. Then...in this way you are changing body. That you have got experience. You had a child's body--you remember. Or you had a boy's body--you remember. But the body is no longer existing. But you are existing. Therefore the conclusion is that when this body will be no more fit for existing we shall have to accept another body. This is called tatha dehantara-praptih. So we have to change. That is nature's law. The soul is immortal. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. The soul is not finished, simply a particular type of body being finished, no. The people do not know it. And because they are simply engaged in sinful activities, their brain has become so dull that they cannot understand this simple truth that as you are changing body in this life therefore you will change this body to another life. This is very simple truth. But at the advancement of material civilization, we have become so dull and rascal that we cannot understand it.

[Srila Prabhupada from a Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture,Melbourne, May 19, 1975]

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:10 am    Post subject: HISTORICAL FACTS on the Illuminati Reply with quote

Will anybody seriously interested in the HISTORICAL FACTS on the Illuminati please read this
http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/index.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: HISTORICAL FACTS on the Illuminati Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Will anybody seriously interested in the HISTORICAL FACTS on the Illuminati please raed this
http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/index.htm


Quote:
The Bavarian Illuminati, a rationalist secret society, was founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776 in what is today Germany. They had an inner core of true believers, who espoused radical atheist, anti-monarchist and possibly proto-feminist views, at that time considered beyond the pale. They recruited by infiltrating the numerous (and otherwise benign) Freemasonic groups which were active at the time on the continent. Necessarily they had a clandestine, compartmentalized, hierarchical organizational form, which has led some modern conspiracy theorists to identify them as the original Marxist-Leninist group. However, this is most likely simply a case of parallel evolution.


Lenin, Marx, Trotsky were Jews. They were part of the conspiracy to steal the natural resources of Russia. The real Holocaust involved not 6 million, but 45 million, who perished in the gulags and were starved to death by the Bolshevicks. Beware the suffix 'ism' I say.

Quote:
However, reading between the lines, it becomes obvious that the Bavarian Illuminati were what the American old left called a 'talk shop,' barely able to organize a picnic, let alone the Terror. Instead, it seems, they were only expressing views widespread in intellectual circles of the day. They were not, as Robison claims, the fuse that lit the downfall of the French Monarchy.


The Napoleonic Wars were financed on both sides by Rothschild. After the battle of Waterloo Rothschild got early intelligence that the English had won. In the Stock exchange his agents began selling consuls. Everyone sold in a panic. The English lost England nto private hands on that day. Much fanfare was made as we paid the last instalment of WW2 'national debt'. We still have 'national debts' going back to WW1 and the Napoleonic wars. The compound interest on this debt is quite mind-boggling.

Rothschild (and Mossad) have always been synonymous with intelligence gathering. There are myths about channel crossings and carrier pigeons wrt Waterloo. The one I like is Nathan's 'talking box' he used to have mysterious conversations with...

DYODD

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: THE ILLUMINATI HAS MADE US DULL TO THE TRUTH Reply with quote

Hi Rodin,

Nice one that was a mindblowing post which spoke for itself. The path of TRUTH is one that the Prophets trod and which TRUTH seekers should emulate. You have shown what we are up against. I suggest ALL truthseekers reflect on what Rodin has argued and the paths we should be treading rather than going up cul de sacs and dead ends. Truth seeking has responsibilities it is not a hobby to kill time or ego massaging. Much work has been done by a global network on monetary reform with regard to the financial usurious capitalist system and the debt slavery which is ensnaring us all. Remember even the "peaceful" Jesus raged over the practices of the moneylenders in the Temple. Are we going to be inspired and do the right thing? Is that going to be one of the indirect outcomes of the global Truth Movement? May the light of TRUTH shine in the tunnel of darkness that humanity finds itself in.

Moeen Yaseen Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: C21 Illuminati - fact or fantasy? Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:


originally posted here
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=9582


Most texts about the Illuminati are patchy but there is some easily verifiable core evidence which can be useful to anyone who wants to assess whether or not they, or a similar group, are at work behind the scenes today.

Personally my research and knowledge of this secret society, which has probably changed its name many times to obfuscate itsself, has helped immensely in understanding the DEIST philosophy behind much of the quasi-religiousness of the likes of Bush and Blair.

Satan (The Illuminati still call him Lucifer) is the brightest and most intelligent of the heavenly host and because he is pure spirit he is indetructible. But he is only supported by one (the demonic) third of the spirit world.

In challenging an Illuminati agenda of lies it makes sense to spiritually tune in to the two-thirds majority (angels) and honour God (Yahweh) and his only son (Yeshuah or Jesus).


ORIGINS
Rituals written by Adam Weishaupt in the Grand Orient lodges of freemasonry, Bavaria, Germany. Formally inaugurated in 1776.

AIMS
(1) Abolition of ALL ordered national governments
(2) Abolition of inheritance
(3) Abolition of private property
(4) Abolition of patriotism
(5) Abolition of the family as the cell from which all civilisations have stemmed.
(6) Abolitions of all religions so that the Luciferian ideology of a totalitarian elite may be imposed on mankind.

STRATEGIES
(1) USE TEMPTATION TO ENTRAP
To use monetary and sex bribery to obtain control of people already occupying positions in high places in ALL governments and other fields of human endevour. Once fallen they were to be held in bondage by application of political and other forms of blackmail and threats of financial ruin, public exposure, and physical harm.
(2) GET THEM WHILE THEY'RE YOUNG
Illuminati on the faculties of colleges and universities were to recommend students belonging to well-bred families for special training in internationalism. They were to be at first persuaded and then convinced that men of special ability and brains had the RIGHT to rule those less gifted. Three special Illuminati schools are located at Gordonstoun in Scotland; Salem in Germany; and Anavryta in Greece.
(3) TERMINATOR AGENTS
Blackmailed Illuminati puppets and Illuminati educated students were to be used as agents and placed behind the scenes of ALL governments as 'experts' and 'specialists' so they could advise the top executives to adopt policies which would bring about the ultimate destruction of the religions they werre elected or appointed to serve.
(4) TO OWN PUBLIC DISCOURSE
The Illuminati were to obtain control of the press and all other agencies which distribute information to the public. News was to be slanted so that the public would get behind Illuminati puppets and come to believe in a One World Government as the only solution to the world's problems.

DEGREES
0. Preparation
1. Novice
2. Minerval
3. Illuminatus Minor
4. Illuminatus Major (Scotch Novice)
5. Illuminatus Dirigens (Scotch Knight)
6. Presbyter (Priest)
7. Principatus Illuminatus (Prince)
8. Magus (Master)
9. Rex (Man-God)

QUOTE
“The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment: let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is fitter than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expect little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it.
"Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries… we may turn the public mind which way we will.
In like manner we must try to obtain an influence in… all offices which have any effect, either in forming, or in managing, or even in directing the mind of man.”
Shouldn't the above go into Other Controversies too??
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=15141
By the way, Mr Bilderburger is on some of those vids...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The illuminati are coming to get you, the illuminati are coming to get you.... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Illuminati already have you...

They're simply tightening the thumbscrews, fortifying the matrix and securing their own position far away from us. Their happy shopper slaves.

Pop your head round the door to their Temple of Solomon and you'll see them dragging us through, into a new old world.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pop your head round the door to their Temple of Solomon and you'll see them dragging us through, into a new old world.


You mean the Freemasons. So why call them the Illuminati?

See http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=123763#123763
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You mean the Freemasons.


Did Washington in his letter to Rev. Snyder?

"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am."
President George Washington, Oct. 1798 Well known Freemason.

Quote:
So why call them the Illuminati?


Indeed. Who are the Illuminated ones..?



Who knows how high the staircase leads...

Does the light get brighter the higher up you go.

Ancient encoded knowledge revealed step by step.

Think Police Chiefs and Prime Ministers.

Or local "Lodges" to Federal Triangle.

Or even Malkuth to Kether.

But there you have a point because Malkuth is Kether is Malkuth. Wink

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am."
President George Washington, Oct. 1798 Well known Freemason.


I believe the Illuminati may have tried to enter freemasonry. Whether they were successful or not I don't know. Anyway, Washington's comments are 210 years old and related to the time of Weishaupt.

Some, like Kbo234, recognise the Illuminati as another term for Freemasons. I call them Freemasons as the term recognisable to all.

If you think they are separate to Freemasons what proof do you have of their current existence?

Quote:
Indeed. Who are the Illuminated ones..?


Here's a recent & rare picture of them! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original Bavarian Illuminati may well have been stamped out as history has us believe.

But then again Oswald may have really shot JFK, 9/11 may not be an inside job.

Asking me to prove Their existence is like asking me to tell who Brown or Bush get their orders from. And then who They get their orders from.

By 'Illuminati' we may not have to mean the Bavarian sect that infiltrated the Freemasonic order. I dont believe the magick stops once they progress from Yale into Congress.

It's funny how the original mission of the Illuminati - to break down religions and governments and create a one world order - does seem to be coming about.

The 33 degree-ers will of course deny the existence of the Illuminati, but of course they will also tell you that they've never seen the Washington letter to Snyder also. Which is in the library of congress to this day....

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Asking me to prove Their existance is like asking me to tell who Brown or Bush get their orders from.


No, false analogy. Brown And Blair both exist as does Washington, DC the international banks, the Anglo-American fraternities, Bilderberg, the Trilats etc. So we can point to tangible connections.

The Illuminati, however is today as real as the Bogeyman. If you can't prove it exists then your case will not stand up to examination. To accept that something exists where there is no proof consigns it to the realms of speculation or, at best, theory. So until you can give us some tangible evidence of its current existence the Illuminati remains a phantasm.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"So until you can give us some tangible evidence of its current existence the Illuminati remains purely speculatory".


Agreed. Your critical thinking is noted.

It is of course equally as speculative to suggest that after Washington wrote to Snyder expressing his concerns of Their existence, They were simply stamped out or faded away.

Quote:
Brown And Blair both exist as does Washington, DC the international banks, the Anglo-American fraternities, Bilderberg, the Trilats etc.


Perhaps these are They so to speak. Either in the original sense of the original Illuminati (I.e. They won and created these groups) or in the sense that they are still largely secret organisations.

I asked a roomful of some 25 people a few days ago if anyone knew who the Bilderbergs are. One person said "shhh...it's a secret"...The rest stared back unknowingly.

The Illuminati were originally known by name but still extremely secretive, as are the above groups with people still denying that they even exist.

Would your proof of their existence be enough for the man on the street?

Illuminati = Illuminated ones - or - those who know the agenda.

Pure speculation of course.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isfahan wrote:
The Illuminati, however is today as real as the Bogeyman. If you can't prove it exists then your case will not stand up to examination. To accept that something exists where there is no proof consigns it to the realms of speculation or, at best, theory. So until you can give us some tangible evidence of its current existence the Illuminati remains a phantasm.

How's this for proof?


However there is also plenty of evidence that an organisation calling itsself the Illuminati did infiltrate freemasonry back on the late 1700s.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/pc05.htm
If you've not read the Proofs Of A Conspiracy from cover to cover it's an entertaining read. No doubt it will be debunked after the application of much money.
I have always believed that book to be much, much more credible that the Protocols of Zion which is extremely shoddy in comparison. Robison was a close personal friend of James Watt, inventor of the steam engine and a decent freemason himself. Seems to me masonry was set up to bring in all the powerful and skilled people then 'capped' with an evil organisation at its apex.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would your proof of their existence be enough for the man on the street?

Illuminati = Illuminated ones - or - those who know the agenda.

Pure speculation of course.


Noam Chomsky once wrote that our job should be to demystify the mystification that our rulers use in order to stay in power. On that at least I believe he is right and I also try to adhere to the policy of demystification so that the Man behind the Curtain is exposed.

For that reason I think we do each other no favours talking about an invisible organisation whose current existence we cannot prove. If proof is there then let's find it. Meantime let's stick to the tangibles. Smile

Quote:
However there is also plenty of evidence that an organisation calling itsself the Illuminati did infiltrate freemasonry back on the late 1700s.


I'm not questioning that, Tony. It's whether or not they still currently exist that's the question. As far as I know they may still exist. But where's the evidence?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monty Python - parody the freemasons - what are they trying to say?


Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwQerFAh4Wk

Difficult call on the evidence - what do others think?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Monty Python - parody the freemasons - what are they trying to say?


That the Masons were (or would be) behind the demolition of the Twin Towers? Maybe they were, wouldn't surprise me ... Masonry and corruption in local government.

Thanks for the sketch, Tony. I'm a Python fan & missed that one the first time around. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Noam Chomsky once wrote that our job should be to demystify the mystification that our rulers use in order to stay in power. On that at least I believe he is right and I also try to adhere to the policy of demystification so that the Man behind the Curtain is exposed.


So who is the Man behind the Curtain?Surely by using this term you are creating an air of mystery around those in power.

Quote:
For that reason I think we do each other no favours talking about an invisible organisation whose current existence we cannot prove. If proof is there then let's find it. Meantime let's stick to the tangibles. Smile


Didn't Chomsky say that the big media outlets of America restrict and control and shape news in order to serve the agenda of the elite groups in society...?

Hardly a demystifying quote.

The fact remains that there are groups, influential groups that do have a say in politics that meet pretty much in secret to conduct their machinations. You listed a few in one of your posts.

It's alright saying demystify their use of mystifcation and lets stick to the tangibles but when was the last time you were allowed into a Bilderberg meeting?Or heard the CFR mentioned on mainstream news?

What has Chomsky done to infiltrate one of these groups? When was the last time he even mentioned them?

Does he mean demystify or ignore?

Demystification would be to expose them surely.

The term Illuminati may not be histroically correct for them but it works for me.

Once a shadowy ritualist, always a shadowy ritualist.

You know I must be one of the few people that doesn't actually find Monty Python that funny.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The term Illuminati may not be histroically correct for them but it works for me.

Once a shadowy ritualist, always a shadowy ritualist.


Lee, it might work for you. That's fine by me. You can believe in anything you wish. That's not my concern. What does concern me is that we should all try to adhere to a high standard of accurate reporting on a 911 Forum. And its not the history of the Illuminati I question, it's their current existence.

Once we start dealing with things that are intangible and unprovable we go into a mire of speculation where anything and everything is possible. Where there's no evidence of its current existence the Illuminati has about it as much a claim on authenticity as the Bogeyman.

There are enough idiots out there who are only too delighted to find the slightest excuse to poke fingers at us and call us cranks. Our case isn't helped when we start talking about phantasms like the Illuminati.

If they are really high level Freemasons then let's call a spade by its name. Calling them Illuminati might be fanciful and give us a thrill but that's about it. Maybe the difference is that you are a ritualist and I believe in demystifying things.

This is what John Bruno Hare writes in his introduction to John Robison's book, Proofs of a Conspiracy, quoted above by Tony:

Quote:
The Illuminati have today become a byword for a secret society which hoodwinks its junior members and puppet-masters society at large. This reputation is in no little part due to Robison's book.


Byword or shorthand, it has become a generic term.

'The man behind the curtain' was meant figuratively, alluding to the Wizard of Oz film, that's all. And when I quoted Chomsky on the need to demystify I was doing just that: quoting him, not making any further judgements.

Quote:
Didn't Chomsky say that the big media outlets of America restrict and control and shape news in order to serve the agenda of the elite groups in society...?


Precisely. That sounds to me like Chomsky seeking to expose and demystify. Nothing wrong with that, methinks. It's one thing to identify the sources of the problem. One doesn't expect them to send us invitations to their meetings!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The evil organisation at its top were the people who wrote the Protocols of Zion.
That is if you want to humanise it.


1844. Benjamin Disraeli in his novel ''Cosingby'', exposed some of them. Unfortunately I will be unable to post those excerpts as we cannot seem to question this group that hides behind absolutely anything as it twists all interpretations.

This book can be purchased or read in a library hopefully in its original text. Not forgetting that Benjamin Disraeli was perhaps even amongst them. And also not forgetting all this will do is keep us going around in circles [making circles in the dust] fighting the effects and not the cause.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isfahan wrote:
..... And its not the history of the Illuminati I question, it's their current existence.

.......If they are really high level Freemasons then let's call a spade by its name.

.......That sounds to me like Chomsky seeking to expose and demystify. Nothing wrong with that, methinks. It's one thing to identify the sources of the problem. One doesn't expect them to send us invitations to their meetings!


It is hard to see the point you are really trying to make Isfahan. The name 'Illuminati' is really an irrelevance. The point is that there is a very high level conspiracy that acts against the interests of ordinary people at large. The people (whoever they, as individuals, are) who are prepared to order the crime of 9/11 to go ahead are obviously also the people in control of Freemasonry. They are certainly the people who are at the highest level in control of the global money supply......a group that many would characterise as "The international bankers".

This group have far more power than any government.

Our governments are (through the mechanisms and secrecy of organisations like the Freemasons) selected for us. The financial powers give us a choice of candidates and they are all practically identical. No really independent politician can compete with these funded agencies.

Chomsky identifies the cause of all our woes as The American government....or The American Empire.

He is a gatekeeper and a deceiver (whether he himself knows it or not) whose business it is to mislead us and not recognise that our greatest enemy is actually the mechanism of money creation itself and the people who currently control it along with their close associates. Prevent private Corporations creating our money and the power of these bankers will quickly fall away and money will become the servant rather than the master of humanity.

Jonathan Swift wrote about this in Gulliver's travels in Gulliver's voyage to Brobdignag. He described a system like the new Bank of England that created a government's money out of nothing and charged it interest on the money as a system that would inevitably thrive on war. It was a system made for war. At the time he received enormous abuse for raising this criticism against the new powers-that-be. He was a very brave as well as a brilliant man

See this quotation:


"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits".

- SIR JOSIAH STAMP, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain).

Here is our problem.
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Lee
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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What does concern me is that we should all try to adhere to a high standard of accurate reporting on a 911 Forum. And its not the history of the Illuminati I question, it's their current existence.


But you are simply questioning that they exist. It's your belief that they may not because there is no solid proof. Not really a very high standard of accurate reporting.

Quote:
Once we start dealing with things that are intangible and unprovable we go into a mire of speculation where anything and everything is possible. Where there's no evidence of its current existence the Illuminati has about it as much a claim on authenticity as the Bogeyman.


The Washington letter, the current unfolding of Their original plan is evidence. You never did explain how, after Washington identified them in his letter, they are meant to have just faded away.

Quote:
There are enough idiots out there who are only too delighted to find the slightest excuse to poke fingers at us and call us cranks. Our case isn't helped when we start talking about phantasms like the Illuminati.


The people that you refer to are often beyond reasoning with. You could show them any key 9/11 evidence and they often simply dismiss it.

If you started talking about The Freemasons (rather than "The Illuminati") the same people may simply retort with...

"What...? Those weirdos that do them funny 'and shakes and wear aprons with eyes on 'em? They're just harmless architects..."

Your belief in "demystifying" things may do more harm than good.

Quote:
If they are really high level Freemasons then let's call a spade by its name. Calling them Illuminati might be fanciful and give us a thrill but that's about it. Maybe the difference is that you are a ritualist and I believe in demystifying things.


High level Freemasons? Since when do the folks at Bohemian Grove engage in a bit of harmless architecture? Since when did Bush Snr or Kissinger pick up a compass and square. In the practical sense mind you.

I'm not a ritualist. But they are. Remember the Cremation of Care?

Quote:
Didn't Chomsky say that the big media outlets of America restrict and control and shape news in order to serve the agenda of the elite groups in society...?


Quote:
Precisely. That sounds to me like Chomsky seeking to expose and demystify. Nothing wrong with that, methinks. It's one thing to identify the sources of the problem. One doesn't expect them to send us invitations to their meetings!


Chomsky's quote doesn't demystify anything in the slightest. What does your average Joe understand from the quote? That there are elite groups in society. That's all. In fact it may actually "mystify" Joe no end. He may start asking questions like.."Elite Groups?" Who are these elite groups..?

He may be led eventually to an answer like...

"The Freemasons...?" Aah...Just harmless architects...nothing to see here"

Or "The Illuminati? whose plan was to infiltrate governments and break down society and religious establishments to usher in a global order of control...?"

"Hmmm..." Says Joe looking at the current state of affairs..."There could be something in this..."

Do you remember The Secret Rulers of the World series by Jon Ronson.

He said the same thing as you really. After watching Alex Jones break in to BG and watching the C of C. Talking to David Icke, after talking to Denis Healy and asking to see photos of Bilderberg meetings and being told to F off by Healy.

He simply stated at the end of the series that there may be secret sects like the harmless Frat-like Freemasons and nothing but the flow of money controls the world.

Cheers Jon...case closed then eh?

But what about the.....

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The name 'Illuminati' is really an irrelevance.


No it isn't an irrelevance. By giving credence to an organisation that cannot be proven to exist during our times we only lay ourselves open to be accused of being loonies and cranks. I'm surprised you can't see that.

Quote:
The Washington letter, the current unfolding of Their original plan is evidence. You never did explain how, after Washington identified them in his letter, they are meant to have just faded away.


Lee, you are referring to a letter written 210 years ago! What possible relevance does that have in the year 2008?

Quote:
But you are simply questioning that they exist. It's your belief that they may not because there is no solid proof. Not really a very high standard of accurate reporting.


This is non sequitur, Lee.

Quote:
Chomsky's quote doesn't demystify anything in the slightest.


What I write isn't registering with you. I was simply quoting Chomsky on the need to demystify, that's all. Again, you're not computing my words.

Quote:
The point is that there is a very high level conspiracy that acts against the interests of ordinary people at large. The people (whoever they, as individuals, are) who are prepared to order the crime of 9/11 to go ahead are obviously also the people in control of Freemasonry. They are certainly the people who are at the highest level in control of the global money supply......a group that many would characterise as "The international bankers".


Just one conspiracy? I believe there are several high level conspiracies going on against the people.

Quote:
He [Chomsky] is a gatekeeper and a deceiver (whether he himself knows it or not) whose business it is to mislead us


Kbo234, whether this is so or not is irrelevant to the point I'm making which was simply to allude to Chomsky's statement about the importance of demystifying the rulers.

By referring to a phantasm of an organisation called the Illuminati serves to do just the opposite: it mystifies quite unnecessarily.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isfahan, ok. Let's refrain from "mystifying" our rulers by not calling them "Illuminati."

So without attempting to "mystify" what do these elite groups do?

- Meet in secret, in secret locations away from the mainstream media coverage to decide on an as yet speculated agenda.

- Conduct bizarre rituals one of which is the Cremation of Care which involves mock human sacrifice to an ancient Canaanite Deity.

- Manipulate the opinion of the masses through restricting,shaping and controling the news.

Wow, they sure are "demystified" then.

Just be sure not to call them the Illuminati though ey?

Quote:
Lee, you are referring to a letter written 210 years ago! What possible relevance does that have in the year 2008?


You know, some people are saying the same thing about Habeas Corpus and The Bill of Rights.

To answer your question, the letter suggests that Washington was concerned by something called The Illuminati within his country. Given that the plan of said group mirrors closely the current state of affairs that we see unfolding today I'd say the letter's relevance is as pertinent as ever.

No evidence of them being thwarted has been presented as yet.

I dont believe or disbelieve that they exist as the Illuminati. But the fact remains that there are shadowy elitist in positions of immense power. No amount of "demystification" changes that.

Calling them the Freemasons instead of the Illuminati doesn't change a thing except perhaps the credibility of the opinion that there is a "secret" agenda.

Calling them the freemasons doesn't change the fact that your local lodge has very little to do with it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You know, some people are saying the same thing about Habeas Corpus and The Bill of Rights.


False analogy. The Washington letter referred to a situation which the writer believed existed 210 years ago. Situations change.

However common laws such as habeas corpus or a Bill of Rights are meant to enshrine certain eternal values in constitutional law.

Let me provide you with another analogy to explain what I mean:

A piece of machinery might comprise hundreds or thousands of constituent parts, all required for the machine to function. All these parts have a name and were manufactured individually.

If we take a machine and strip it down we need to have a machine manual by our side or we need to note every piece and maybe label or colour code some parts. That is, of course, unless we are lucky enough to have a photographic memory.

Now all these parts have a name by which they are identified. Say, for example, Gizmo X is broken and needs replacing. We look in the manual and identify Gizmo X to be a Flibberytigibbet. So we go to the parts supplier and ask him for a replacement Flibbertigibbet and he'll know what we're talking about. But if we refer to it as a Codswalloper he'll either not understand or supply us with the wrong part.

Now, if a Flibbertigibbet = Freemasonry, Codswalloper = Illuminati and the Machine = The Demystifying Exposé, do you see the problem? The Machine (Demystifying Exposé) won't work with a Codswalloper (Illuminati) but it will with a Flibbertygibbet (Freemasonry).

Bear in mind at all times, the manual does refer to Gizmo X as a Flibbertygibbet and not a Codswalloper, i.e. one is a known, recognized part, the other not.

Hence the need to call a thing or a part by its proper name. Otherwise people won't know what you're talking about & you risk being considered a loony. Shocked

So if it is Freemasonry we're talking about then let's all please refer to it as that. 'Freemasonry' people understand, 'Illuminati' takes us into the realms of a fairy story and,

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The illuminati are coming to get you, the illuminati are coming to get you.... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By directing very serious criticisms (of great international crimes and the slaughter of our own civilians) against 'Freemasons' one would, in effect' be attacking a large organised group the vast majority of whom have no idea whatsoever of what goes on at the top of their organisation and who are totally innocent of any crime.

This is a formula for self-destruction rather than 'clarity'.

You could use a similar agument to blame 'politicians' rather than Freemasons.....after all, they could theoretically prevent our involvement in all future wars.

No. Most politicians, like Freemasons, do not understand the system that holds them in chains.

Our mission must be to expose the nature of the pyramidal system, the scam that is the money-creation system....and the awesome and unmerited power it affords those at the very top.....


.......and it is these people and their agenda (which is well-documented) that needs to be exposed.

I prefer 'Illumanati' (though I don't like it at all and never use it) to 'Freemasons' because the term 'Freemasons', as well as having no more 'accuracy' than the first one, gratuitously creates enemies for us that we don't need......people who should and, realistically, could become our allies.

Freemasons, like everyone else, just need to be informed about the nature of the organisation in which they are involved. If they understood the vast majority, being fundamentally decent men, would just leave....

.....as happened on a large scale in the late 1880's in the USA after a particularly brutal assassination was proven to be a Masonic punishment carried out against a whistleblower.

Isfahan, I am suspicious of your determination to label the criminals as 'Freemasons'....even though the dominant group of globalist conspirators are, fairly obviously, Judeo-Masonic central bankers and their associates.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isfahan wrote:
Quote:
You know, some people are saying the same thing about Habeas Corpus and The Bill of Rights.


False analogy. The Washington letter referred to a situation which the writer believed existed 210 years ago. Situations change.

However common laws such as habeas corpus or a Bill of Rights are meant to enshrine certain eternal values in constitutional law.


But some of them have been changed on the back of what many consider to be false flag terror attacks...by whom?...the Freemasons at your local lodge?

Quote:
Let me provide you with another analogy to explain what I mean:

A piece of machinery might comprise hundreds or thousands of constituent parts, all required for the machine to function. All these parts have a name and were manufactured individually.

If we take a machine and strip it down we need to have a machine manual by our side or we need to note every piece and maybe label or colour code some parts.

Now all these parts have a name by which they are identified.

Now, if a Flibbertigibbet = Freemasonry, Codswalloper = Illuminati and the Machine = The Demystifying Exposé, do you see the problem? The Machine (Demystifying Exposé) won't work with a Codswalloper (Illuminati) but it will with a Flibbertygibbet (Freemasonry).


Wow. You have the audacity to accuse me of using a false analogy (which wasn't really refering to anything other than disregarding an historical document because it's old) and then suggest that you have 'the manual' on identifying secret societies.

You still haven't provided any evidence to suggest Washington's letter is irrelevant. The fact that it's a bit old is not enough I'm afraid.

Quote:
Bear in mind at all times, the manual does refer to Gizmo X as a Flibbertygibbet and not a Codswalloper, i.e. one is a known, recognized part, the other not.

Hence the need to call a thing or a part by its proper name. Otherwise people won't know what you're talking about & you risk being considered a loony. Shocked


So. Lets take your analogy further.

We have a manual for "Machine X" The Freemasons. Which identifies the secret society for what it is and all it's constituent parts. (Keep in mind that this manual doesn't actually exist, at least not publically....I wonder why?...)

But by reading the back of the manual, we also become aware that there are many more machines. Just like machine X.

We find there are other 'secret socities' that also operate largely outside of the public domain The OTO, The CFR, Bilderberg, Trilats etc. That do similar but not identical things to the Freemasons.

We find that by reading further, that many of the parts of Machine X are also to be found in many other of the different machines. But not all.

"Hmmm" says reader of Machine X (Freemason) manual, It would be helpful if a seperate manual, with all of the parts that feature in all of these machines was available. But on searching further, reader of manual finds that ....Shocked... there isn't one!!!

"Oh well", says reader, "better call all of the machines that feature the same parts by the same name then. They're all machine x. There doesn't really need to be a name to help identify the parts that feature in all of the machines that do similar but not the same things.

"And besides" says reader, "If I try to come up with a name, people will think I'm a loony."

Quote:
So if it is Freemasonry we're talking about then let's all please refer to it as that. 'Freemasonry' people understand, 'Illuminati' takes us into the realms of a fairy story and,


Yes. You're right. If it's Freemasonry we're are talking about then let's call it Freemasonry. If it's the OTO we're are talking about then let's call them the OTO. If it's the Trilats then...or Bilderberg then etc...but...if we're talking about the group of people within all these groups then let's call them....?...

Oh sod it. Just call them all the Freemasons. You know, all those people at the local lodges. Besides, wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a loony now would I...?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok guys, you carry on believing in whatever you do. And Lee, you will doubtless continue to indulge in non sequitor. I'm getting bored with this meandering exchange which is wasting my time.

We have a manual for "Machine X" The Freemasons. Which identifies the secret society for what it is and all it's constituent parts. (Keep in mind that this manual doesn't actually exist, at least not publically....I wonder why?...)

But by reading the back of the manual, we also become aware that there are many more machines. Just like machine X.

We find there are other 'secret socities' that also operate largely outside of the public domain The OTO, The CFR, Bilderberg, Trilats etc. That do similar but not identical things to the Freemasons.

Quote:
We find that by reading further, that many of the parts of Machine X are also to be found in many other of the different machines. But not all.

"Hmmm" says reader of Machine X (Freemason) manual, It would be helpful if a seperate manual, with all of the parts that feature in all of these machines was available. But on searching further, reader of manual finds that ....Shocked... there isn't one!!!

"Oh well", says reader, "better call all of the machines that feature the same parts by the same name then. They're all machine x. There doesn't really need to be a name to help identify the parts that feature in all of the machines that do similar but not the same things.


Lee, you're rambling. I was referring to the Hayne's manual but maybe that's an Illuminati publication as well! Smile

I've stated my point-of-view and that's it. The battle of egos on a forum such as this will continue to rage on this subject as well as others. So I'm bowing out now. Farewell and Adieu.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isfahan wrote:
Ok guys, you carry on believing in whatever you do. And do you know the Tooth Fairy really exists? I'm getting bored with this exchange which is now wasting my time.

I've stated my point-of-view and that's it. The battle of egos on a forum such as this will continue to rage on this subject as well as others. So I'm bowing out now. Farewell and Adieu.


You know it's funny but I thought you might say that, that you might not want to listen on this one.
The evidence is there but some sheeple don't want to see it.
I take it you've read 'Proofs of a Conspiracy' from cover to cover?
Was that a "no?"

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You know it's funny but I thought you might say that, that you might not want to listen on this one.
The evidence is there but some sheeple don't want to see it.
I take it you've read 'Proofs of a Conspiracy' from cover to cover?
Was that a "no?"


Look, Tony, we're just going round & round in circles. What's the point? You people will no doubt continue to believe in this invisible sect & I won't until I have satisfactory proof of its current existence. Not guilty until proven. That's all there is to it.

As for the book you referred us to, I have downloaded it & made an HTML file to read when there is time. Most interesting. Thanks again.

Here it is for the interest of others ...



Proofs of a Conspiracy.doc
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Proofs of a Conspiracy.doc
 Filesize:  1.02 MB
 Downloaded:  364 Time(s)

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