Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject:
TonyGosling wrote:
Isn't original Zeitgeist simply an anti-Muslim Jewish, Christian... rather sophisticated Trojan Horse?
ie you can have the truth so long as you lace it with spiritual cyanide.
Yes indeed. There is plentiful evidence that the powers-that-be in this world are actively Luciferian. See Pike, Bohemian Grove and much more besides......not least the intensity of the long-running and ongoing attacks against Christianity and Islam in the education system and the public domain.
Judaism gets a free ride but having agreed with Tony, I'll not muddy this particular water by disagreeing with a detail of his assertion now.
The producer of Zeitgeist called Peter Joseph (or something) has no history or biography out there on the web (that I could find anyway). It is most odd that the maker of this well-funded film, which is trying to spawn a 'movement', would want to remain anonymous.
Tony is right. This film was made to damage the opposition.......
........which, whether you like it or not, Luciferians see as being the God of Christ (that is Love) and His teachings.
A Resource-Based Economy is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.
Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.
A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.
Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.
In a resource-based economy all of the world's resources are held as the common heritage of all of Earth's people, thus eventually outgrowing the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is the unifying imperative.
We must emphasize that this approach to global governance has nothing whatever in common with the present aims of an elite to form a world government with themselves and large corporations at the helm, and the vast majority of the world's population subservient to them. Our vision of globalization empowers each and every person on the planet to be the best they can be, not to live in abject subjugation to a corporate governing body.
Our proposals would not only add to the well being of people, but they would also provide the necessary information that would enable them to participate in any area of their competence. The measure of success would be based on the fulfillment of one's individual pursuits rather than the acquisition of wealth, property and power.
At present, we have enough material resources to provide a very high standard of living for all of Earth's inhabitants. Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge. By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary.
A resource-based world economy would also involve all-out efforts to develop new, clean, and renewable sources of energy: geothermal; controlled fusion; solar; photovoltaic; wind, wave, and tidal power; and even fuel from the oceans. We would eventually be able to have energy in unlimited quantity that could propel civilization for thousands of years. A resource-based economy must also be committed to the redesign of our cities, transportation systems, and industrial plants, allowing them to be energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.
What else would a resource-based economy mean? Technology intelligently and efficiently applied, conserves energy, reduces waste, and provides more leisure time. With automated inventory on a global scale, we can maintain a balance between production and distribution. Only nutritious and healthy food would be available and planned obsolescence would be unnecessary and non-existent in a resource-based economy.
As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated. Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. The most valuable, untapped resource today is human ingenuity.
With the elimination of debt, the fear of losing one's job will no longer be a threat This assurance, combined with education on how to relate to one another in a much more meaningful way, could considerably reduce both mental and physical stress and leave us free to explore and develop our abilities.
If the thought of eliminating money still troubles you, consider this: If a group of people with gold, diamonds and money were stranded on an island that had no resources such as food, clean air and water, their wealth would be irrelevant to their survival. It is only when resources are scarce that money can be used to control their distribution. One could not, for example, sell the air we breathe or water abundantly flowing down from a mountain stream. Although air and water are valuable, in abundance they cannot be sold.
Money is only important in a society when certain resources for survival must be rationed and the people accept money as an exchange medium for the scarce resources. Money is a social convention, an agreement if you will. It is neither a natural resource nor does it represent one. It is not necessary for survival unless we have been conditioned to accept it as such.
We intend to restore the fundamental necessities and environmental awareness of the species through the avocation of the most current understandings of who and what we truly are, coupled with how science, nature and technology (rather than religion, politics and money) hold the keys to our personal growth, not only as individual human beings, but as a civilization, both structurally and spiritually. The central insights of this awareness is the recognition of the Emergent and Symbiotic elements of natural law and how aligning with these understandings as the bedrock of our personal and social institutions, life on earth can and will flourish into a system which will continuously grow in a positive way, where negative social consequences, such as social stratification, war, biases, elitism and criminal activity will be constantly reduced and, idealistically, eventually become nonexistent within the spectrum of human behavior itself.
This possibility is, of course, very difficult for most humans to consider, for we have been conditioned by society to think that crime, corruption and dishonesty is "the way it is" and that there will always be people who want to abuse, hurt and take advantage of others. Religion is the largest promoter of this propaganda, for the "us and them" or "good and evil" mentality promotes this false assumption.
The reality is that we live in a society that produces Scarcity. The consequence of this scarcity is that human beings must behave in self preserving ways, even if it means they have to cheat and steal in order to get what they want. Our research has concluded that Scarcity is one of the most fundamental causes of aberrant human behavior, while also leading to complex forms of neurosis in other ways. A statistical look at drug addiction, crime and incarceration statistics, finds that poverty and unhealthy social conditions comprise the life experience of those who engage in such behavior.
Human beings are not good or bad... they are running, forever changing compositions of the life experience(s) that influences them. The "quality" of a human being ( if there was such a thing ) is directly related to the upbringing and thus belief systems they have been conditioned into.
This simple reality has been grossly overlooked and today people primitively think that competition, greed and corruption are "hardwired" elements of human behavior and, in turn, we must have prisons, police and hence a hierarchy of differential control in order for society to deal with these "tendencies". This is totally illogical and false.
The bottom line is that in order to change things for the better fundamentally, you must begin to address root causes. Our current society's system of "punishment" is outmoded, inhumane, and unproductive. When a serial killer is caught, most people jump up and down and scream for the death of that person. This is backwards. A truly sane society, which understands what we are and how our value systems are created, would take the individual and learn the reasons behind his or her violent actions. This information would then go to a research department which considers how to stop such conditions from occurring through education.
It is time to stop the patchwork. It is time to begin a new social approach which is updated to present day knowledge. Sadly, society today is still largely based on outmoded, superstitious dispositions and resolutions.
It is also important to point out that there are no utopias or endings. All evidence points to perpetual change on all levels. In turn, it is our personal actions everyday of our lives that mold and perpetuate the social systems we have in place. Yet, paradoxically, it is also our environmental influences which create our perspectives and hence world views. Therefore, true change will come not only from adjusting your personal understandings and decisions, but equally from changing the social structures that influence these understandings and decisions.
The elite power systems are little affected in the long run by traditional protest and political movements. We must move beyond these 'establishment rebellions' and work with a tool much more powerful:
We will stop supporting the system, while constantly advocating knowledge, peace, unity and compassion. We cannot "fight the system". Hate, anger and the 'war' mentality are failed means for change, for they perpetuate the same tools the corrupt, established power systems use to maintain control to begin with.
The Distortion and Paralysis:
When we understand that all systems are Emergent and constantly in a state of evolution, along with the reality that we are all Symbiotically connected to nature and each other in the most simple yet profound ways, forcing the realization that our personal integrity is only as high as the integrity of the rest of society, we then see how twisted and backwards our social establishments are and how their perpetuation is largely the cause of the social instability in society. For example, the Monetary System has been long deemed a positive force in society due to its claim to produce incentive and progress. In actuality, the monetary system has become a vehicle for division and totalitarian control.
It is the ultimate form of "Divide and Conquer" for at its very core are the assumptions that (1) We must fight each other in order to survive. (2) Humans must have this reward "Incentive" to do anything meaningful.
As far as Number 1 (We must fight each other in order to survive.), this characteristic of 'competition' in the system guarantees corruption in society on every level, for the basis is "us against them". Many argue that the "free market system" is good... but it is corrupt in the modern day due to bad policies, favoritism, bailouts, etc. They assume that if a "pure" free market was allowed to flourish then it would be okay. This is false, for what you are seeing today IS the Free market at work, with all its differential advantage and corruption. No laws will ever stop the insider trading, collusion, monopoly, labor abuse, pollution, planned obsolescence or the like... this is what the competition based system produces without fail, for it is based on the premise of taking advantage of others for profit. Period.
We must begin to transition out of these oppressive ideals and move towards a system which is "designed" to support human beings... not force them to fight in order to survive. As far as Number 2, (Humans must have this reward "Incentive" to do anything meaningful.) this is just a sad and an incredibly negative perspective of the human being in general. To assume that a person must be "structurally motivated" or hence "forced" into doing anything, is just absurd. Think back to when you were a child and had no idea what money even was. You played, were curious and did many things... why? Because you wanted to. However, as time goes on in our system, that natural curiosity and self-motivation is stripped away from people, as they are forced to conform to the specialized, compartmentalized, nearly predefined labor system in order to survive. This, in turn, often creates a natural rebellion within the person due to the forced obligation, and this is how we came up with "leisure" and "work" separations. The laziness assumed to exist by the monetary system proponents (who claim it produces incentive) do not recognize this. In a true society, people would follow their natural inclinations and work to contribute to society not because they are "paid" for it, but because they have a greater awareness which recognizes that contributing to society helps them just as much as everyone else. This is the heightened state of awareness we hope to communicate. Your reward for contributing to society is the well being of that society... which, in turn, furthers your well being.
Now, putting things into perspective, it is important to understand that our world is currently run, undeniably, by a small group of dominant men in high positions of those institutions which are most dominant in society- Business and Finance. The establishment of government is in tandem with the influence and power of corporations and banks. The life blood is money, which is, in fact, an illusion that now has little relevance to society and serves as a tool for manipulation and division along a kind of social organization that guarantees elitism, crime, war and social stratification.
Simultaneously, individuals are taught that being "correct" is what creates their value as human beings. This state of being "correct" is directly related to the prevailing values of society itself. Therefore, those who accept and support the social system's views are considered "normal", while those who disagree are considered "abnormal" or even "subversive". Whether it is the dogma of a unique social tradition, or the alignment with a worldwide establishment religion, the basis is the same: Intellectual Materialism.
As we realize that knowledge and hence our institutions are always evolving, we see that any belief system which claims to "know" anything, without allowing for dispute, is a failed perspective. Religion, with its foundation in faith, is the king of this distortion, as it claims to know something definitively about the most complex and elusive origins of human kind, and this simply is not possible in an emergent universe.
That being said, it is then realized that equally as dangerous as the Establishment Power Structures, are the people who have been conditioned to completely accept the static understandings put forth by these systems... therefore becoming: "Self Appointed Guardians of the Status Quo". This applies to every system, especially political, financial and religious systems. Since people's identities become associated with the doctrines of a Country, Religion or Business ethic, it often becomes very difficult for a person to change, for his or her identity has become combined with the ideologies which have been imposed upon them.
Therefore, they perpetuate the doctrine of the institution, simply to maintain their personal integrity, as they see it.
We must break this cycle, for it paralyses our growth not only as individuals, but as a society.
The Truth and Transition
Once we understand that the integrity of our personal existences are directly related to the integrity of the earth, life and all other human beings, we then have our path predefined for us. In turn, once we realize that it is science, technology and hence human creativity which creates progress in our lives, we are then able to recognize what our true priorities are for social and personal growth and progress. These points denoted, we can then see that Religion, Politics and the Money/Competition based Labor system are outdated modes of social operation, which must now be addressed and outgrown. Our avocation is to achieve a social system which operates without money or politics, while allowing superstition to work itself out as education flourishes. It isn't the right of any person to tell another what to believe, for no human has a full understanding of anything. However, if we pay attention to the natural processes of life, we then see how we can align with nature and thus our path becomes more clear.
For example, many people are worried about population growth on the planet, while very spooky comments by despotic figures like Henry Kissinger claim that some kind of "reduction" is needed. This is, of course, very scary. However, the real question remains: Is population growth really that bad? The answer is that from a scientific perspective the earth can handle many, many times more people if need be, once high technology is harnessed. 70% of our planet is water and cities in the sea ( one of many projects by Jacque Fresco ) are the next step. In turn, education about life operations will inform people as to the ramifications of their reproductive interests and population growth will naturally slow as people begin to realize how they are related to the planet and its carrying capacity.
In fact, the only true "government" that can possibly exist is the earth and its resources. From there, all possibilities can be assessed. This is why an intellectual unification of all countries is needed, for the most important information we as a species can have is a full, highly detailed assessment of what we have on this planet. Just as you would examine the land and resources of an acre of land to see what you could do or grow on it, this is what needs to happen with the planet in order to optimize what we are capable of as a species, resource wise.
Of course, many who consider the ideas presented above will often ask: "How can we do this considering the distorted value systems which are currently in operation.? How do we make such a move or transition?" This is, of course, the most difficult question. The answer: We have to start somewhere. There are many things that can be done by a single person or community that can begin to shape this vision. The most important step is education.
On March 15th 2009, ( or "ZDAY" as it was called in 2008 ) there will be a worldwide action day to expand awareness of this sociological direction. Our hope is to have regional meetings in as many cities, states & countries as possible. We here at thezeitgeistmovement.com will work to provide materials in every language we can, while doing whatever we can to help each subgroup. We will never ask for money. We are here to help, for we understand one central truth that has been lost for a long, long time:
The more you give- the more you get.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18027 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:07 am Post subject:
Cut out the first bit and it's a first rate film. Also seems designed to make sure any Mosque or churchgoer will not bother with the meat of it.
Old friend of this site Mick Meaney from Lancaster got some appauling legal threats from one of the Zeitgeist producers after posting a critical review.
Quote:
ZEITGEIST The Movie on DVD
You can order the Zeitgeist DVD here. (Scroll down for more retailers)
WARNING: Please bear in mind that a large part of this film is suspected as misinformation, for details see:
Here Here Here Here Here
Here Here Here Here Here
You can also see an example here of the damage this type of project is doing to the public perception of credible information about the banking system and 9/11.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/zeitgeist-the-movie/659/
Cut out the first bit and it's a first rate film. Also seems designed to make sure any Mosque or churchgoer will not bother with the meat of it.
You're referring to the first film probably, not Addendum, the first part of which is about the money scam.
I had to watch a few of the creator's interviews to understand his perspective on the issue, as he does come across as being quite bitter on this topic in the film.
In my mind, he's clearly not 'undercover NWO'.
Some say the film attacks Christians. What is your response to this?
The idea that the film is against any group is a fallacy. The only thing the film addresses is ideology and beliefs. Sadly, many don't realize that one's ideology is not them. We are emergent beings and everything we believe is taught to us one way or another. Therefore to say the film is attacking "Christians" is about as absurd as saying the film attacks people with baseball caps.
This is a serious problem in our society, for identity is erroneously associated with belief. Once again, propagandists against the project use this idea that the film "attacks" a group in order to try and manipulate their surroundings into not thinking critically about the information.
The same kind of propaganda has materialized where the project has been called "new world order", "satanic" "marxist" and other irrational, thoughtless distinctions not worth bringing up.
Some say the film attacks Christians. What is your response to this?
The idea that the film is against any group is a fallacy. The only thing the film addresses is ideology and beliefs. Sadly, many don't realize that one's ideology is not them. We are emergent beings and everything we believe is taught to us one way or another. Therefore to say the film is attacking "Christians" is about as absurd as saying the film attacks people with baseball caps.
This is a serious problem in our society, for identity is erroneously associated with belief. Once again, propagandists against the project use this idea that the film "attacks" a group in order to try and manipulate their surroundings into not thinking critically about the information.
The same kind of propaganda has materialized where the project has been called "new world order", "satanic" "marxist" and other irrational, thoughtless distinctions not worth bringing up.
This reply is disingenuous. If this insincere creep justified his trashing of Christianity one might have some respect for him. Christanity is a contestable matter of Faith and experience, after all......
......but to say the charge is "absurd" should raise some eyebrows even amongst Joseph's supporters.
In my opinion this film is a 'New World Order' project. It proffers a new kind of idealistic materialism (a neo-marxism, now that the familiar marxism is past its sell-by date). A high-tech world of plenty for all.......
.......not a word about who will be administering our new utopia. We're not supposed to notice that it will be the same old top-down, pyramidal, power-delivered-from-some-new-set-of-glorious-leaders (who'll turn out to be the same familiar degenerate murdering *astards as before)
Any 'project' that does not address the issue of how we collectively 'invert the pyramid' will only deliver the same kind of society we've had everywhere since the Babylonians.
Without necessary profound systemic change we will surely always find ourselves back facing the same crises and catastrophes that so well serve the interests of those at the top of the system.
Some say the film attacks Christians. What is your response to this?
The idea that the film is against any group is a fallacy. The only thing the film addresses is ideology and beliefs. Sadly, many don't realize that one's ideology is not them. We are emergent beings and everything we believe is taught to us one way or another. Therefore to say the film is attacking "Christians" is about as absurd as saying the film attacks people with baseball caps.
This is a serious problem in our society, for identity is erroneously associated with belief. Once again, propagandists against the project use this idea that the film "attacks" a group in order to try and manipulate their surroundings into not thinking critically about the information.
The same kind of propaganda has materialized where the project has been called "new world order", "satanic" "marxist" and other irrational, thoughtless distinctions not worth bringing up.
In my opinion this film is a 'New World Order' project.
It proffers a new kind of idealistic materialism (a neo-marxism, now that the familiar marxism is past its sell-by date).
You're certainly ticking the boxes of the underlined sentence above..
Blimey, and I didn't know he'd ever showed his face, even if he did sit well back from the camera so that you'd never know him if you saw him on the street.
Tricky fellow.
Regarding intellectual materialism, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with Joseph about this. It is not the man-told myths about Christ that matter but the message, the teachings of Christ......
.......but what better way to attack the message than to trash the context in which the message was delivered, be it true or indeed purely 'mythical'.
For myself, I don't worry about issues like 'The virgin birth' or 'bodily resurrection', I can accept the story, though elements of this story might be embellishments or even creations of the mind (men will tell tales, won't they?). Indeed we know this must to some extent be true because there are differences and contradictions between different Gospels.
However, the teaching is another matter. It is a holy thing. It demands that we 'love our enemies' rather than try to destroy them........that we 'turn the other cheek'........that we become perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect......this is sublime stuff and I find it difficult to understand the thinking of those who do not understand how necessary it is that we try to transform ourselves according to this, or some very similar, template.
The issue of the existence of God is beyond verbal argument. When I hear people like Richard Dawkins arguing the toss with some clergyman or other it makes me think of eskimos arguing over the existence of apples. He heard this and she heard that and so-and-so says he saw one.....but for the eskimo who travels south and eats one the argument is over.
However, he might still return home and fail to convince his peers that apples really exist.
I did not, could not, believe for many years.....but it seems that spiritual experience comes to a person most commonly at a moment of the most severe crisis.....so it was for me. There is nothing, NOTHING, more real. It tends, for most people, to have an abstract quality rather than seeing visions and hearing voices. Fundamental errors in one's perception are somehow clearly revealed. There is the lifting of a veil, the fleeing of a shadow. The self experiences an ecstacy, a complete freedom from fear, a knowledge of being completely loved........and, for me, there was the sense that I'd become exactly the person I was meant to be and I felt a strange longing for death. I was 'ready'.
So absolutely no one out there is going to disabuse me of my 'irrational illusions'.
I find the best sense of my own experience in the teachings of Christ. Jesus was a man but Christ consciousness is only a heartbeat away from all of us. This is our source. It might have other labels in other cultures but.......
.......destroying peoples' inborn instinct for and attraction to this truth that is latent within us anyway is a big objective of the 'New World Order' or whatever you want to call the conspiracy of fiends that gave us 9/11, the banking crisis whatever new nightmare will doubtless be soon upon us.
.....and, by the way, the Christian Gospels, point the finger at all the greatest enemies of goodness that lead men astray......the moneylenders, the 'scribes', the lawyers and the Pharissees, the prototypical Talmudists who make themselves their own Messiah, whose aim is Jewish supremacism. Christ came to the Jews to teach the true nature of the Creator, to save the Jews from the wicked teachings of their Rabbis. And most shockingly to the established religion we, the goyim, were included in God's plan. We too were fully loved by God......though today Talmudist Rabbis continue to deny this.
His message is as relevant today as it was 2000 years ago. And even if there never was a Jesus Christ (if this is what you prefer to think) it is still the truth.
The problem with Zeitgeist is it makes assertions that there are so many Gods, so many virgins, so many resurrections. Where is the evidence for these wild claims? I simply don't believe them. There are articles debunking these assertions........
(There are other questions I have about the psychology and mentality of an individual who would make this kind of film....but these are complex and I don't have the energy to go into the issues now.)
........but everyone knows these days that the truth matters far less than what is established in the public domain as the dominant narrative. This film seems to me to present a poisonously destructive and false narrative.
Also there is no attempt in Zeitgeist to address the central generator of the problems of humanity, which is systemic. It is the pyramidal power system. We allow nearly all power to become centralised. This is the thing we must change. With this structure you can replace all the wicked people with good ones and in a few years we will find ourselves controlled by criminals again.
Marxism appeared to the simple minds of angry and abused citizens to be a moral alternative to the Czarist kleptocracy that ruled Russia. It was nothing of the sort. Its morality was entirely fraudulent. It was a system designed for centralising power more effectively than capitalism ever could.
People call the Zeitgeist vision of the future 'Marxist' (or I do anyway) because I see it as a FRAUD working along exactly the same lines as marxism's 'power to the people'. It is really dangerous *ollox because there is no attempt to deal with what we should all, by now, recognise as being the cause of our problems.
We must treat any similar new idealism with extreme skepticism. The criminals will always try to appeal to the Christ-nature within us in order to sell us our new suit of chains. They have to. Nothing else stands a chance of working........so beware the slimeball politicians and saviours who step forward to sell us 'World Peace' under their harmonised international banking system, in the aftermath of the next war they bring us.
.......and if you're a part of 'the Zeitgeist movement' take care. Try and find out who you are working for.
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 413 Location: South Essex
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:51 am Post subject:
Top post there KBO.
There was a time I thought Zeitgeist was the real deal,but once one analyses that the messages within really are,it is undoubtedly destructive against humanities power to work within a construct of helping thy neighbor.Indeed it is forthright from the begining in it's Darwinian concept of survival of the fittest,and that God needs money.It is true the established church needs money,but that is just a construct of the established church.
Perhaps more thought needs to be applied to the differences between organised (materialistic) religions and spirituality?
I have no issue with Zeitgeist but I can clearly see how it might shake peoples shiboleths...
Let's get back to basics and look at organised religion for what it is, a power/control structure. We are once again in the 'end result' of Judaism/Christianity/Islam 'trichotomy' - we are now busy destroying our world and our sanity, based entirely on a mish-mash of writings between 2 & 3 thousand years old (and let's not forget the missing Gnostics!). Is this a sane approach to existence? I think not.
Clear away the 'mote from thine eye', oh. and ditch the War on Terrorism while you're at it...
Spirituality pre-dates Judaism by hundreds of thousands of years, yet most of the worlds troubles stem from this very exclusive take on one tribes outlook.
Finally, how about the 3 Nobel Laureates who have recently discovered that our 'redundant' DNA is in reality an electro-magnetic communication system? _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject:
Thermate911 wrote:
I have no issue with Zeitgeist but I can clearly see how it might shake peoples shiboleths...
If you came to the conclusion that it was a lie-ridden NWO exercise in undermining real and potential opposition to its Luciferian spiritual agenda, would you have an issue with it then?
If the 'Luciferian' tag is as meaningless to you as Christianity seems to be then I suppose the above will be a meaningless question.....
......however, to me these are the most real issues imaginable. It is the very substance of what is going on......the struggle between good (the selfless devotion to God and the common good in accordance with the injunctions of Christ) and evil (the Luciferian paradigm....sacrifice of others in service of self and narrow special interests).
If it is any help, there really are plenty of strong signs, mentioned above, that the NWO leadership are active Luciferian occultists. Do you think they see Christianity as being neither here nor there?
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 2568 Location: One breath from Glory
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:06 am Post subject:
Thermate911 wrote:
Spirituality pre-dates Judaism by hundreds of thousands of years,
Can you supply some references/evidence to justify this. Always interested to find evidences of anything hundreds of thousands of years ago.
Ta _________________ JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12
Spirituality pre-dates Judaism by hundreds of thousands of years,
Can you supply some references/evidence to justify this. Always interested to find evidences of anything hundreds of thousands of years ago.
Ta
Caught me sticking my neck out, fish. ;-)
Nah, just examine the Vedas in depth or the teachings of Mahayana Buddhism - whats left of Mayan teachings etc etc etc
The point I am trying to make is that GOD is humans way to externalise the divine (For I am a jealous...etc etc) whereas the reality is that we carry the divine within us (ALL of us) - its up to each individual to manifest such.
Once again, I would mention a ghastly T-shirt I saw recently which declared Kill Them All - Let God Sort It Out... _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
If you came to the conclusion that it was a lie-ridden NWO exercise in undermining real and potential opposition to its Luciferian spiritual agenda, would you have an issue with it then?
If the 'Luciferian' tag is as meaningless to you as Christianity seems to be then I suppose the above will be a meaningless question.....
It is, IMO. Please see my response to fish5133.
We each of us have the ability to manifest both good and evil (self evident!) - externalising our choices is mere conscience salving, IMO
The NWO have made their choice - seemingly without employing conscience at all - the classic signature of psychopathy. _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject:
Thermate911 wrote:
We each of us have the ability to manifest both good and evil (self evident!) - externalising our choices is mere conscience salving, IMO
In a way I agree. We put labels on what is universal....
.....but we do have collective as well as individual identities and we need to find principles around which we can gather and agree. Simply regarding us all as islands of potentially perfect spirituality leaves people adrift during the process of finding God or the infinite or whatever you might choose to call it.
This attitude puts us at the mercy of the NWO machine who know exactly what they are trying to do. We need to be organised around something. I think that something is the teaching of Christ.....which does not mean that we should follow the instructions of the Vatican or any other church, all of which have failed to speak the truth at this most important time.
While a Christian like me must insist that the truth is in Christ and with Christ, it must be acknowledged that it is not words that matter and that the spirit which we seek (the spirit that filled Jesus) is surely accessible to all who seek good......in any faith or none.
I would only say that to find this spirit (that came to me in my distress many years ago) without the directed influence and wisdom of Christ's teaching......is a terrifying and dangerous thing. As Nelson Mandela said in his inaugural speech, "It is the light in us not our darkness that we find most terrifying."
I 'lost' 20 years of my life after this ecstatic experience. I had aquired a power that I did not know how to use. The spirit was real but there was something about the way I was 'holding' it that I felt was wrong (though I couldn't understand why at the time). In retrospect, now that I am through the whole experience, I would say that my mistake was 'identifying' with the spirit that had taken me. It went to my head. I thought I was good.
.....And Christ asked Peter, "What do the people say about me?"
While a Christian like me must insist that the truth is in Christ and with Christ, it must be acknowledged that it is not words that matter and that the spirit which we seek (the spirit that filled Jesus) is surely accessible to all who seek good......in any faith or none.
Beautifully and elegantly put. Thank you.
Quote:
Simply regarding us all as islands of potentially perfect spirituality leaves people adrift during the process of finding God or the infinite or whatever you might choose to call it.
Did I imply 'islands' anywhere? I don't think so, as I feel quite the opposite is true. Filter out ego and we're all much the same, perhaps evolving towards group and eventually global consciousness?
Perhaps this is what is happening to those 'adrift' in that the NWO feeds well off, and promotes to the hilt, mass uncertainty and much worse...
ah, words... ;-)
I take your point about thinking one is good. I certainly don't imply that any of us on this plane can claim ineffability. There are so few who come close, and I definitely ain't one of them... ;-/ _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Getting deep here, acrobat, but on this plane it would seem entirely dominant, judging by world events and history ;-) The 'Divine Right of Kings' and all that rot?
However, post-Chandresekar cosmology can help us out, IMO...
Getting deep here, acrobat, but on this plane it would seem entirely dominant, judging by world events and history The 'Divine Right of Kings' and all that rot?
Oh no doubt the 'ego' perspective is dominant. Hence the need to evolve.
I quite like how Z's Joseph speaks about the 'emergent & symbiotic' aspect of human nature.
Yep. I also think Philip Dick had his finger well on the pulse with 'Through a scanner darkly'
Going back to your previous response where you say "I quite like how Z's Joseph speaks about the 'emergent & symbiotic' aspect of human nature."
It's those aspects which give Zeitgeist its power, IMO. Group consciousness is a fact, admittedly not easily subject to the rigours of science yet (though it can be argued that science is severely limited by the abilities of its measuring equipment) but a fact nonetheless for those who have experienced it.
Personally, I'm fairly convinced that our evolution can be readily explained within a framework of the 'new' cosmology implicit in the Electric Universe (Thornhill, Talbot et al) and the discovery of a use for our so-called redundant DNA... _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
It is interesting that Judaism escaped, for where true Christianity teaches Love and Truth, where Islam teaches profound Surrender, where Buddhism teaches Compassion and Loving Kindness, what does Judaism teach, that her soldiers shoot Gentile children in the streets and bulldoze Gentile homes and orchards?
The violence of those actions has awoken me to something I knew nothing of before, a deceit which is promoted by Zeitgeist. The myth of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Israel Shahak, the brave Israeli who grew up in Belsen and who was emeritus professor of organic chemistry in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem for much of his life, wrote urgently that we need to understand the real nature of current Jewish orthodoxy, which has been dominated by the cabbala since the late 16th century.
"First, whatever can be said about this cabbalistic system, it cannot be regarded as monotheistic, unless one is also prepared to regard Hinduism, the late Graeco-Roman religion, or even the religion of ancient Egypt, as 'monotheistic'."
"Secondly, the real nature of classical Judaism is illustrated by the ease with which this system was adopted. Faith and beliefs (except nationalistic beliefs) play an extemely small part in classical Judaism. What is of prime importance is the ritual act, rather than the significance which that act is supposed to have or the belief attached to it. Therefore in times when a minority of religious Jews refused to accept the cabbala (as is the case today), one could see some few Jews performing a given religious ritual believing it to be an act of worship of God, while others do exactly the same thing with the intention of propitiating Satan - but so long as the act is the same they would pray together and remain members of the same congregation, however much they might dislike each other. But if instead of the intention attached to the ritual washing of hands anyone would dare to introduce an innovation in the manner of washing, a real schism would certainly ensue."
(page 41, 'Jewish History, Jewish Religion' by Israel Shahak; Pluto Press, London, 1994.)
For the purposes of general enlightenment Tony, could you point to the passages in Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum (time/frames, perhaps?) that cause you to post such a very emphatic 'thumbs down' on what, to my mind, are the simplest graphic offerings yet created to help the average enquiring mind to understand why they are being fear-driven, incarcerated on a whim, murdered, robbed (and not merely of material wealth) and by whom?
Is your criticism not a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, based on nothing more than a demonstrable bias in your belief systems?
I see a parallel here with the many attempts to discredit researchers like Tarpley, Barrett and Jones that we have been so assiduously batting off on this forum and all points west for some time now.
IMO, we are in an era where our 'minds and hearts' can evolve at an accelerated rate (due largely to the 'prod of evil' being wielded by the NWO) and break free of the stultifying programming of ages or we can devolve into our security blanket of muddled beliefs and become part of the problem. I opt for the former, wherever it may take us, however unpalatable, if it leads to a more universal grasp of eternal truths and an enhanced clarity of perception for more and more of us on this presently benighted planet.
It didn't do the reputations of Copernicus, Kepler or Gallileo any lasting harm, despite the full might and antagonism of prevailing religious belief, did it? ;-)
Just because Peter Joseph holds a more universal perspective of our place in it than the ever-contentious western religions doesn't mean he's an NWO agent/patsie/stooge promoting destruction of all that's good in mankind. How coud he be, when you consider that he devotes a large proportion of his films to exposing the mechanics of our servitude to these psychopathic financiers?
What he claims in the first part of Zeitgeist, and near the end in Zeitgeist Addendum, is no new-agey-hippy-dippy-airy-fairy philosophising; a basic understanding of celestial mechanics and a study of Berossos' tantalising index to the Alexandrian Library (itself a victim of 'religious' fanaticism) is sufficient. One doesn't even need to be 'into astrology' and all the mumbo-jumbo that has amassed over the ages, to have an awareness that the Universe is far older, grander, more complex and far more 'ineffable/omnipotent/divine' than anything a human mind could dream up from our parochial gutter and anthropomorphise for his/her own convenience/comfort/ego.
Let's get back on track, shining light in dark places, dealing with good versus evil, rather than externalising it all into such nebulous, fear-driven concepts as God vs Devil or political dogma of the Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist-Herzl/Strauss/Reagan/Thatcherite brands of miasmic fog.
Please?
Zeitgeist (in the full spiritual sense of the word) is contemporarily far too important educationally to relegate to obscurity on the basis of belief, IMO. If you can't even cope with Zeitgeist Addendum, despite all the vital knowledge it contains for newcomers, at least give the last 10 minutes (01:52:00 onward) that amount of your time and reflection. If you can answer yes/done to all the suggestions for positive social transformation, then we have no fundamental contention; just a matter of interpretation. ;-)
-----
(My apologies for the delay in responding; it's due to a combination of lack of solar power and an ongoing battle with my ISP) _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject:
Thermate911 wrote:
Zeitgeist (in the full spiritual sense of the word) is contemporarily far too important educationally to relegate to obscurity on the basis of belief, IMO. If you can't even cope with Zeitgeist Addendum, despite all the vital knowledge it contains for newcomers, at least give the last 10 minutes (01:52:00 onward) that amount of your time and reflection. If you can answer yes/done to all the suggestions for positive social transformation, then we have no fundamental contention; just a matter of interpretation.
I took a deep breath and, on your advice, watched these last 10 minutes of this film. It was impressive stuff. I agreed with everything that was said until I was invited to "Join the movement".
An important question arises.
Whose movement is this?
Maybe there was a clue near the very end when a longish segment of a recorded Krishnamurti sermon was presented (along with breathtaking inspirational graphics) just before the credits rolled.
Krishnamurti was connected to and trained by Theosophists.' Annie Besant and Alice Bailey both seem to have claimed at some time that he was the new 'Messiah'. Theosophism was heavily connected to Rosicruceanism and mainstream Freemasonry. It was Bailey, I think. who founded the 'Lucis Trust' (originally known as the 'Lucifer Trust').
It is the 'Lucis Trust' that has a 'chapel' in the UN building in New York.
In whose hands do people who are prepared to follow such leaders risk placing themselves.
Your heart is in the right place Thermate. I want exactly what you want for the future in terms of peace, equality, abundance and the pursuit of wisdom.......
.......but I do not understand why you would trust these people. Maybe Joseph is genuine. I suppose it is possible.......but if so, why does he invent a load of unsubstantiated rubbish the purpose of which is to disrespect and destroy Christianity.........
...........yet he lets Judaism completely off the hook; a 'faith' that regards non-Jewish humanity as 'cattle', A 'faith' whose object of worship is itself in the form of racist supremacist Rabbis who make and alter their religious tenets regularly as short-term advantage demands, a faith whose stated objective is Jewish global supremacism........
.......a faith whose tenets and political agenda are enacted and projected by the very Zionist banking institutions and governments the rest of his film so effectively condemns.......
.........oh, and a faith that hates Christ calling Him, among other things a conjuror who was conceived in menstruation (and that's one of the milder abuses).
Why try to destroy Christianity (whose teaching condemns the usury that this film recognises as a primary source of our problems) and give a free pass to the Judaism (that uses and has historically practiced usury as its tool for gaining the unprecedented global hegemony that now threatens the lives of every one of us?)
I want the same as you for the world Thermate but I trust the teachings, not of the Church, nor of people who call themselves Christians, but the words of Christ Himself. This teaching demands moral perfection and self-sacrifice in the service of the common good. It demands we 'love our enemies'. This is the kind of radical thinking (and His the radical example) that appeals to me.
I still think Zeiteist is a NWO Luciferian project. I think the evidence for this is right under your nose. The Krishnamurti connection only confirms this. The motive behind the making of this film might be that people with high ideals and a trusting but unfocussed spirituality will probably be easily led.
The 'Zeitgeist' phenomenon might even be a precursor of the 'new world religion' that was promised to us by Albert Pike. If this is what has been prepared for us, it is not a bad shot at creating a new religion. It is certainly very seductive.......unless you are already a Christian (which hardly anyone is these days).
I wonder if the US government were to (seem to) turn on the bankers and the new Obamanoid youth army that is being created were to be indoctrinated with Zeitgeist ideas........I wonder if Christians and prayerful people might be targeted as enemies of the common good and end up being attacked by Zeitgeistians/........ (who only want to make the world a better place of course).
If this 'movement' were ever to take hold in a big way I wouldn't bet against it.
Zeitgeist omits all evidence of the voracity of The Bible.
Was that a Freudian slip, Tony? ;-)
I still don't agree that PJ has attempted a nullification of the Bible. He just brushs over the surface of its' inconsistencies and more violent passages. Judges comes to mind...
No need to use the Hitler card and no need to throw Zeitgeist away for its more out there ideas. The central core is a tool - a very useful one. _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
I still think Zeiteist is a NWO Luciferian project. I think the evidence for this is right under your nose. The Krishnamurti connection only confirms this.
Oops again ;-) I was brought up as a Steiner student, my son also, who is now a Steiner teacher. I fear you might have misinterpreted Krishnamurti. Not all Theosophists took the Dark Path.
It is easy to find objections to any new presentation of paradigm shifting ideas but as I said above in other words, if the two Zeitgeist films are part of a 'NWO Luciferian (who he? :) Project' then the present banking structure and its manipulators must be pure as snow and so very sure that PJ's presentation leads far from the truth...
Now does that ring true? From my experiences in countless educational 'film-nights', Zeitgeist gets to people like no other film that attempts to empower them against the marauding banksters, not even 'Freedom to Fascism'.
I'm totally with you where movements are concerned - as I've said before, they should be confined to the bathroom. Each person must act for themselves, co-operatively if at all possible, but by themselves, from the heart and from knowledge gained.
As for Judaism - isn't it implied in these films that it is the basis for our present slavery? I think so.
I have no personal involvement beyond using any valid tool that comes to hand to get people motivated to think for themselves, but yes, I consider P Joseph to be genuine. Time can always prove me wrong but this is not Mein Kampf we're looking at here - just a vision of Capital getting out of the way of appropriate, beneficial technology - no bad aim, even if I'm a minimal subscriber! ;) _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Last edited by Thermate911 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
quite enjoyed David Ray Grffins interview with WAC on Global Governance too. Both I'd say share a Utopian dream somewhat Star Trek like
Infact I'll improve Star Trek=Humanity The Final Frontier _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
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