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Conspiracy Files on 7/7 London Bombings BBC2
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Frank Freedom
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Conspiracy Files on 7/7 London Bombings BBC2 Reply with quote

Just a "general" heads-up for those who may have forgotten.

Thread also here:

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=17444

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks...

Just watched it. Very predictable indeed. I thought most of the featured campaigners came across well though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony, how much of the interview you gave was edited out?

Rudin very cleverly crafted the result to make your radio show and interviews seem somehow subversive.

The BBC as judge and jury, together with supplying new evidence unseen by anyone else, is worthy of a kangaroo court in a banana republic. Who'd have guessed eh?

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought it was funny, anything raised by analysts that said the government position needed questioning was down to conspiracy nuts reading too much into a situation.

The government line or that of the Israeli government had simple denial statements being presented as fact. Ah, so that's ok then. lol

As with any programme, the power lies in the edit suite.

Plus I thought it a little too convenient they didn't mention CCTV on the tube trains or the bus.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite a full house, but nearly:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happened to have switched on the TV whilst this programme was on. My immediate reaction was about the style of presentation with the use of a solemn kind of voice common to many of these programmes concerning 'terrorism'. That immediately warned me what to expect.

It wasn't long before Nick Kollerstrom was on the screen and about 15 minutes later followed the predictable character slur, aided and abetted of course by 'Rachel North', of his being a nutter and/or holocaust denier. Tony Gosling and Dr Naseem couldn't be given the same treatment: instead they were both portrayed as playing leading roles in dividing the nation by pursuing nonsensical conspiracy theories (shame on them for such subversive behaviour!). This despite the editors including Dr Naseem's challenge why we should unquestioningly accept the government conspiracy story.

This programme is all about propaganda, not about investigatory journalism. The techniques used were all meant to ridicule the Truth Movement and cast it in the worst of all possible light. Many of us here are quite used to the BBC using its licence monopoly to behave as the government's conduit for state propaganda. Nevertheless, every time I see this kind of stuff my stomach churns. It reminds me of how much our 'democracy' is based upon lies and calculated fabrication.

If you haven't already signed this petition against the licence fee I urge you to do so:

http://www.petitiononline.com/BBC2007/petition.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prole wrote:
Not quite a full house, but nearly:


You did get a line across, though. Well done.

The "evidence" sprung at the end "proving" the identity of the 7/7 bombers looked like it was mocked up a TV studio. Hmmm. Grounds for complaint I think using "dramatic effect" in a documentary without indicating that it was mocked up. (Of course if it was real Police video, then it should have been indicated that it was actual police video).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my instanaeous take on the "program":

I thought it was an excellent example of attacking the weakest theories of the "conspirasists" views
on 7/7.
Mentioned but not emphasised was Blairs need for public backing for his (rather nwo) war against Iraq at the time.

We were shown the supposed "bomb factory" (made in a bath) without mention of the type of explosive used.

we were also told the train on the official narrative did not run,they got an earlier train,despite if the homemade
highly sensitive bombs in their backpacks they could catch the "earlier" train when the official released footage
shows they were outside Luton station at 07.21,they have 4 minutes to catch the 07.25 train that they now say
they did,is that possible or likely?

The shown footage of the conspirasist proponents Gosling et al did not help at all,especially "Muad dib", as a truther he looks suspect tbh.

No account of the bus times,and the alleged fact the bus the bomber took originally was apparently bound for
Tavistok square anyway-some independant verification would be handy here!

Copious footage of Rachael North,saying (in effect) some people think this event not occur?

Where no one is saying that,obvious strawman,it's the "who" done it that's the issue.

That's it for now off the top of my head.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@scienceplease 2

The CCTV footage showing four murky figures leaving King's Cross Thameslink via the walkway to King's Cross proper was released by the Met in 2008 during the first "7/7 helpers trial". The still shown was timed at 08:26.

See http://segamiemos.blogspot.com/ for another still.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was shocked at how 'fair' this programme was.

OK there was the spin and the bald statement that the government is telling the truth and that the 4 Leeds lads 'did it' but....

....the treatment could have been much more disparaging. Everyone came across fairly well, I thought. You cannot really blame the 'Conspiracy Files' for mentioning NK's views on the Holocaust nor the fact that Muad Dib thinks he's the messiah....because he does.

Nevertheless, the film acted like an advert for 'The Ripple Effect'**. It showed very reasonable Asians saying that it was much more believable than than Blair's narrative....they were allowed to point out the government lies on Iraq etc. Peter Power's 'astonishing coincidence' was publicised and in no way explained. I thought Tony did well and Noel did well and Nick Kollestrom put his case well too (they could have put much more emphasis on his holocaust ideas)....they allowed Tony to admit that Muad Dib's case is undermined by his messiah-complex but that "He makes many important points and we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

......all in all, a result.............


..Maybe the BBC are looking out more carefully for their own reputation after David Shayler/Bristol 9/11's decimation of their last 9/11 film on WTC7.

** I have always been puzzled by the way prole has attacked 'The Ripple Effect'.

'Mind the Gap' and 'Ludicrous Diversion' are better films in the sense that they avoid all speculation and criticise the government narrative in a more forensic fashion....

.....but 'Ripple Effect' is much more powerful propaganda. It uses the Panorama film and indulges in reasoned and fairly compelling speculation. It stirs the blood very effectively.

The battle we are in is not about 9/11 or 7/7 in themselves but about exposing the depth of the wickedness that enslaves us all and revealing this in an effective way to the public consciousness.

In the war of consciousness, raising serious questions in an 'impartial' manner might be a better way of winning an argument in a court of law.....but in the court of public consciousness (the one that matters) drama, accusation and damning words strike heavier blows and have more useful effect than mere reason.

Whenever I handed out or asked anyone to watch a 7/7 film it was always 'The Ripple Effect' I chose.......for its impact.

Well done Muad 'Dib. I don't care if you think you're Jesus or not. You've made an excellent film there....and please God, many more thousands will decide to watch it after tonight's programme.

I'm not convinced that even if the government have an Inquiry into 7/7 it will be of much use. They are bound to 'do a 9/11 Commission' with it. What government would ever convict itself (effectively) of involvement in such a crime. I think we would have a partly closed investigation carried out by some noble Lord or other followed by an admission of all sorts of minor failures including failures to recognise the significance of some of the intelligence services early suspects....followed by Rachel North congratulating the government for doing the right thing, admitting to failures, but making it a safer world for British citizens by their noble (if tardy) actions.

Prole, if you want to get results stop attacking Tony, Muad'Dib and others that you should see as allies and 'stir it up' with some more oblique and asymmetric actions against the liars you oppose. IMO obsessively demanding a Public Inquiry is a dead end.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now you know why muadib and shayler are portrayed as messiahs...to make us look like nutters...cleverly planned psyop..wont stop me selling my dvds on ebay though..still think peter power is a whore of zionism
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Gladio edited out - I'm livid.
And Tristan Quinn sat through Allan Francovich's three films finding nothing of contextualising interest??
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3409375633223151728

You can see for yourself how much of Martin's speech has been edited out here. They used only the bit about the citizen bloodhounds.

False Flag Fever: 9/11, 7/7 & The War On Terror In Context
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6640448501056709386

Martin Summers told me at the end of last year that he phoned the producer Tristan Quinn and told him not to use the image of Jihad, 'The Secret War in Afghanistan by Tom Carew'. Carew's real name is apparently Philip Sassenago.
The book has been deiscredited so Martin wanted to make sure they didn't use it in the final programme.
Instead Tristan allowed that book to be the ONLY book to be shown as part of that sequence filmed at the Bristol Cube cinema last year.
This is deliberate concious distortion of the facts mister Rudin.

Throughout the old formula - set up theory - debunk it...

scienceplease 2 wrote:
Tony, how much of the interview you gave was edited out?

Rudin very cleverly crafted the result to make your radio show and interviews seem somehow subversive.

The BBC as judge and jury, together with supplying new evidence unseen by anyone else, is worthy of a kangaroo court in a banana republic. Who'd have guessed eh?

Rolling Eyes



False Flag Fever: 9/11, 7/7 & The War On Terror In Context - 27:16 - Jul 14, 2008 - Network 23

25 minute lecture and discussion about how 9/11 and 7/7 were almost certainly 'Business as usual' for Western Intelligence Agencies. Martin explains that they have a grisly record of killing their own countrymen and then blaming the attack on someone else. The so called 'false flag', black operation. Martin takes us through some of the most well documented examples of false flag attacks since the second world war. He looks at the Irish bombings where Brigadier Gordon Kerr's Force Research Unit assisted the Loyalist terrorists to kill innocent Irish people on the Streets of Dublin and Monaghan. He also takes us through NATO's Operation Gladio which was behind the 'terrorist' kidnapping and assassination of former Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro....................

........not worth a mention then???

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Frank Freedom
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@KBO,much as I would like to agree the emphasis in the "program" clearly stated the nutters side,not much to inspire further analysis by those undecided.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mercenary that wanted to blow the whistle?
Dug up this unbelievable story on the ultimate fate of the author!

Death of an SAS fantasist: Was Tom Carew murdered - or did he fake his own death?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1128630/Death-SAS-fantasist-Wa s-Tom-Carew-murdered--did-fake-death.html


TonyGosling wrote:
he phoned the producer Tristan Quinn and told him not to use the image of Jihad, 'The Secret War in Afghanistan by Tom Carew'. Carew's real name is apparently Philip Sassenago.
The book has been deiscredited so Martin wanted to make sure they didn't use it in the final programme.
Instead Tristan allowed that book to be the ONLY book to be shown as part of that sequence filmed at the Bristol Cube cinema last year.
This is deliberate concious distortion of the facts mister Rudin.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: PROOF THAT PETER POWER IS ONE AMAZING LIAR Reply with quote

According to that * program there was only 6 people involved in the exercises that were run on 7/7.


That's funny cos Peter Power says on this clip that there were 1000 people involved.


Funny that isn't it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKvkhe3rqtc
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to disagree but but I believe he says "a thousand people in the organisation" (of the company) and not involved in the exercise. This is a typical way of expressing the size of a company. Apologises again but you saw in the BBC 7/7 stuff how Rudin directs his attack on truthers for going after individuals rather than the facts...
PAULA wrote:
According to that * program there was only 6 people involved in the exercises that were run on 7/7.


That's funny cos Peter Power says on this clip that there were 1000 people involved.


Funny that isn't it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKvkhe3rqtc
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The conspiracy files show last night called Power's drill an amazing coincidence. Maybe.

But add to that coincidence the other amazing coincidence of him participting in the mock terror drill London Under Attack Panorama show which also envisions the same scenario "almost precisely" and it sends the odds absolutely through the roof.

Not to mention Giuliani being in London on 7/7.

Could someone calculate the odds of all those things happening on the same day please?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one useful way this programme could usefuly be analysed is to compare it with the first Conspiracy Files programme on 9/11 which John Yeates and I have thoroughly dissected on this website: http://www.bbcmot.blogspot.com/

Perhaps critics should start with our conclusions and see whether the BBC have modified their behaviour in the light of the criticisms they have sustained. Our conclusions in brief were:

"The review of the 911 Conspiracy File highlights some obvious conflicts with the BBC Royal Charter obligations as the BBC programme -


A. Gave inaccurate information.

B. Was partisan and biased.

C. Omitted key issues.

D. Confused and diverted attention from key issues.

E. Made repeated ad hominem attacks on those that question."


On B, this latest programme was certainly partisan and biased supporting the government view, but since the BBC's continued financing depends on its getting on well with the government that should not surprise us.

On C we have omission of mention of CCTV on the tube trains or the bus. No account of the bus times, and the alleged fact the bus that was bombed was the only bus curiously diverted through Tavistock Square.

On D we have diversion from the core issue of whodunnit. Repeated assertion that the said four Muslims dunnit is no substitute for examining alternative theories. Once again they have used the voice of Caroline Katz (an actress noted for playing authority figures) asserting in her soothing motherly tones the government's and BBC's line.

On E my impression was of a strong implication that Tony Gosling and Mohammad Naseem were doing something subversive and wicked, insulting to the survivors by questioning the official conspiracy theory. However, raising Muad Dib's and Nick Kollerstrom's achilies heels was fair game.

On A I'm not yet aware of inaccurate information being given, though I daresay we shall find some later.

It's inevitable that all the interviewees had only a fraction of what they had said broadcast. In my case I was annoyed that the point I had made that ruling out an inquiry because it would be in Tony Blair's words, "a ludicrous diversion" and "we know who did it" means that in modern Britain prime minister's opinion takes precedence over the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

I'm sure Tony, Martin and others will feel similarly frustrated at their pearls of wisdom being omitted.

The emphasis on Muad Dib's movie will have the effect of raising public interest in 7/7 Ripple Effect, the most speculative movie out there. This could be a calculated decision to divert the public from viewing more moderate films ( Mind the Gap and Ludicrous Diversion ) which might appeal to a wider audience. In this way the assertion that those who doubt the official conspiracy theory are nuts is reinforced.

On the whole I do think Mike Rudin and his team have learned something from the criticisms of their earlier programmes, probably from this blog http://www.bbcmot.blogspot.com/ among other places.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone think though that muadib and shayler are still on the payrolls of mI5..HENCE THE MESSIAH SYNDROME...put out truth and then totally discredit it by saying they are * jesus or whatever
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already calculated probability of same three tube stations (of 275) on same day (of 365) 275 x 275 x 275 x 365 = 6000000000:1
roughly 6 Billion to one

GodSaveTheTeam wrote:
The conspiracy files show last night called Power's drill an amazing coincidence. Maybe.

But add to that coincidence the other amazing coincidence of him participting in the mock terror drill London Under Attack Panorama show which also envisions the same scenario "almost precisely" and it sends the odds absolutely through the roof.

Not to mention Giuliani being in London on 7/7.

Could someone calculate the odds of all those things happening on the same day please?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAULA wrote:
does anyone think though that muadib and shayler are still on the payrolls of mI5..HENCE THE MESSIAH SYNDROME...put out truth and then totally discredit it by saying they are * jesus or whatever


I'm sure somebody will be thinking that. There are people who think everything is a conspiracy. For some the more convoluted the theory the more attractive it becomes to them.

I think David Shayler is a perfectly genuine guy who has developed a Messiah complex. I have never met Muad Dib, though I have corresponded with him - not enough contact to have formed an opinion about him.

But there are delusional people about and I have no doubt many of them will be attracted to the sort of discussion to be found on this web-site.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAULA wrote:
does anyone think though that muadib and shayler are still on the payrolls of mI5..HENCE THE MESSIAH SYNDROME...put out truth and then totally discredit it by saying they are * jesus or whatever

Nothing would surprize me about Shayler
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only two anonymous threatening email so far.
Headers below


emailer one wrote:
Dear Tony
Pull your * head out of your ass you stupid *. If you keep going on about this unbelievably incorrect theory, then your calling a lot of good people who have gone through a lot of heart ache liars!
Who the * do you think you are spreading this anti government ball * and stirring up more hatred. Do you realise the amount of people that would have to be involved in covering a thing like that up. The police, the paramedics, the workers at the tube stations and hundreds more. You are siding with some nutter from Ireland and some Knob from Birmingham who are both making money from this *. Just remember where you live Tony. If you want to start thinking like a nutter, then * off and live with the nutters. You wont be welcome in Bristol. We respect real evidence and science. Concentrate on the important things that are effecting our
country.
Richard


emailer two wrote:

Tony

Just watched a prog which featured you and the other idiots who believe that 7/7 was a conspiracy perpetrated by government depts. Are you serious?? How can you consider yourself a 'jpurnalist' when your ideas are so obviously flawed?? Jesus man you must be a moron!? People like you are the reason children are still dying in Iraq. People like you are the reason women are still being tortured and slaughtered in Afghanistan.? People like you are reason those morally bankrupt and ehtically twisted lunatics at the fringes of real politics manage to slip their disgusting words of hate into the ears of the naive.? I will be checking with the NUJ to see
that you are expelled already and if this isn't the case I will personally lead a campaign to pressure them to do so.



emailer one wrote:
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another

Quote:
Just seen you on TV about the 7/7 ripple effect.

Just wanted to say what total scum you are. Do you know how many people died in London. Do you have the slightest bit of respect for them. Instead of worrying about the thoughts of Muslims why do you not think of the victims. It was clearly Muslims that planted the bombs, the programme showed that, the evidence when the flats were raided in London showed that, one of the bombers even admitted it in a video and still you go on claiming its a conspiracy.

In my view you are a total nothing. Community radio is for mugs and you are clearly a sad mad who has nothing in his life. Why don't you show some respect to the people that died and of course your own people.



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xmasdale
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never understand why some people claim that to doubt the government's conspiracy theory is insulting to the victims of the attacks.

One thing that is illustrated by the hate mail Tony has received is that abusive language with lots of swearing and obcenities makes you look like a nutter. There are some posters to this website who should take note of that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dare I say that Peter Power (PP) and his exercise is in all likelihood a red herring and that the authorities will be only too happy for ‘us’ to dance around on the head of a pin whilst ignoring the big and legitimate questions.

Here is my main problem with this angle

1) The maths is incorrect

A remarkable co-incidence? Yes. A 6 billion to 1 co-incidence? No

Firstly, whatever assumptions/odds are used, the number is at least 6 times lower. Say you had 275 numbered balls in a bag and you had calculate the odds of pulling out the balls numbered 1, 2 and 3, the odds would be 3/275 x 2/274 x 1/273.

Second, not all tube stations are equal. If your scenario is multiple bombs to cause maximum loss of life and terror, it is reasonable to presume that central London stations that are major hubs are more likely targets than suburban stations. Liverpool St or Kings X is always a more likely target than Amos Grove or Moor Park. A more reasonable assumption could be the 50 odd stations on or inside the circle line.

Thirdly, the odds of an exercise taking place on the same day is a factor of how often exercises of this type occur. We have no data on this but I suggest one per week or one per month is closer to the mark than one per year.

2) No one as far as I know has shown that the PP exercise influenced events beyond those directly involved in the exercise.

On 9/11 it is entirely reasonable to flag up the numerous exercises that took place on the day. The exercises demonstrated that the scenario of multiple plane hijackings and suicide crashes into prominent NY and Washington targets had been anticipated (contrary to Bush and Rice’s claims at the time). The exercises were official military exercises. One involved diverting US fighters. There are reports of false radar blips being inserted into air traffic control screens. For a long time the true extent of the exercises on 9/11 were denied and even now many legitimate questions remain unanswered. Etc, Etc.......

In contrast the PP exercise was desk based and did not involve the UK authorities, unless others can show otherwise.

Indeed it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this was the purpose of Peter Power making his infamous call: i.e. to lead sceptics down a blind alley and to give the authorities an angle that they knew they could debunk later. Alternatively he may be wholly uninvolved just as he claims.

As for the big, legitimate questions, for me the starting points have to be

Countering the claims that the assumed bombers were ‘cleanskins’ with the mobile phone evidence linking Mohommed Siddique Kahn with Haroon Aswat in the days immediately prior to the attacks and the claims by John Loftus that Haroon Aswat was working for British intelligence.

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpWESSEX/Documents/WATLoftusMI6.htm

Require complete transparency of the explosives evidence / analysis and establish whether it is consistent with the 'Leeds bomb factory' or military sources.

Require complete disclosure of all CCTV evidence including explanations for any questions over the time stamp.

Disclosure of the details of the Saudi warning given the UK authorities.

Require named sources and an explanation from these sources for the Associated Press report of the Netanyahu warning claimed to be from a 'senior Israeli source' and the Canary Wharf shooting report.

Etc.............
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
Require complete transparency of the explosives evidence / analysis and establish whether it is consistent with the 'Leeds bomb factory' or military sources.



You're right about the maths.

On reflection, the above is probably the primary reason why the authorities find it very difficult to even consider allowing an Inquiry into 7/7/
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scienceplease 2
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree on your maths, Tony. It is likely that an attack would only target key tube sites in central London. I think probably only 20 or so. So the maths would be, (days in year) x T x T x T where T is a result of a function to get likely number of targets. So "only" about 3,000,000 to 1 Rolling Eyes

As regards to misleading information in the documentary, as I mentioned earlier, the scene where the bomber's bomb factory was revealed looked like dramatic reconstruction (but not labeled as such) - this was such a significant scene and significant new piece of information that I think that the BBC was misleading. After all how can anyone inspect this piece of information and judge whether it is true or not?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay,

Let's say there are 20 central London Tube stations that might be chosen for the exercise.

Then it would be 20 x 20 x 20 x 365... which is about 3 million to one

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be pedantic..,
assuming both the exercises and the bombings would occur on a workday and only one bomb per station.

365 (261 busy weekdays) x 20-1/1 x 20-2/1 x 20-3/1 = 1,515,793

However a few more factors need be considered
The exercise was to be mock, then the time of the mock attack would be fairly irrelevant.
Even accepting the they really needed it to be at a busy period, it could have been either AM. or PM. 50/50 chance of getting the timing right.
1,515,793/0.5 = 3,031,586

The mock exercise is for bombs exploding. Up to then (by my recollection) the only attack on underground stations were by chemical release (Japan), and opening up a violin case and spraying passengers with bullets would seem just as likely, eg Mumbai. Not even considering hijacked planes or chemical trucks. Say we 1/3 chance of conventional bombs actually being used and also included in the scenario.

3,031,586/0.33 = 9,094,757

Consideration must also be given to the number of incidents, why 3. Surely more likely a lone bomber as an initial assumption? And if multiple why not 2 or 6 or 20? Without guidance I would say 50% single, 25% for two and 12.5% for 3;

9,094,757/0.125 = 72,758,057

Why all underground stations, admitted they can be packed with commuters, but so can main line trains coming into London, the Madrid attack killed far more, indeed why a solitary bus, could they not all have been buses. shall we say a 40% chance that 3 of the 4 would have been tube stations.

72,758,057/0.40 = 181,895,143

So much for my guesstimate. Perhaps I've missed a few?

In addition, a couple of logical points, with so many variables, what was the point of doing a 'terrorist' exercise anyway. They would not know what to expect, would they? Further..

We are given that 1,000 plus were involved in this exercise...

Quote:
An exercise was being run on 7 July 2005 by Peter Power, a former senior Scotland Yard official, who had worked at one time with the Anti-Terrorist Branch. This exercise involved a dry run to test the responses of the emergency services if the London Underground were bombed at the exact same locations and at the exact same times as then happened in real life.


Unless I have missed something, the regular emergency services had no prior involvement with the exercise. Therefore, how were the emergency services responses to be tested if no bombs had exploded? Were Peter Powers team to call the services at a given time to tell them non-existent bombs had exploded? Not only would this be a criminal offence (without government collusion) but the stage would need to be set, ie people acting as injured to which the emergency services could attend. And, if they didn't make a false call, there would be no responses to be tested!!
As a totally pointless exercise a frequency of once a year seems rather excessive.


My second point is in regard to the so-called bombers. Surely suicide bombers are only suicide bombers because they must sacrifice themselves in order to attain their ambitions.
From my experience of the tube, (up to the time of the bombings) it would have been quite easy to leave bags unattended.
If there was no necessity to lose their life, why would they wish to do so. Why not stay alive to fight another day.[/b]


Last edited by Pugwash on Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:36 am; edited 3 times in total
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