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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: More False Terror Reply with quote

More Terror on an unprecendented scale

Are all our police * Stupid - they have jailed a PATSY for 40 years

The guy was plotting for 10 years and did nowt


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6123236.stm
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gypsum
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I was watching this absolutely massive story on the main news earlier. In that BBC article you posted, you have one person saying
Quote:
For well over two years we have been unable to show the British public the reality of the threat they faced from this man

Then
Quote:
The prosecution conceded the police had not found any evidence that materials had been acquired to carry out the plans, but said officers had also failed to find weapons to which Barot had access.


The usual bullsh!t.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsum wrote:
Quote:
The prosecution conceded the police had not found any evidence that materials had been acquired to carry out the plans, but said officers had also failed to find weapons to which Barot had access.


The usual bullsh!t.


It follows that if they didn't find any evidence, but the bloke still admitted to planning such attacks, does this mean that he planned this in his own head and that "thought" crime is now here?
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THETRUTHWILLSETU3
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only conclude that our Police, Judiciary & Media are riddled with Homosexuals, Paedophiles & Perverts who have been blackmailed
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wepmob2000
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not as if they actually found any stretch limos packed with explosives, like the guy planned to, all the Police ever found were plans, and no evidence he had taken steps to carrying out these plans. Reading the account in The Times this morning, he came across as more of a Walter Mitty type character than anything else.

Having said that perhaps everyone had better watch what they write and say, as it seems that words, not deeds, are enough to get you convicted these days.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wepmob2000 wrote:
It's not as if they actually found any stretch limos packed with explosives, like the guy planned to, all the Police ever found were plans, and no evidence he had taken steps to carrying out these plans. Reading the account in The Times this morning, he came across as more of a Walter Mitty type character than anything else.

Having said that perhaps everyone had better watch what they write and say, as it seems that words, not deeds, are enough to get you convicted these days.

He was a planner, not an operative. Planning a crime has always been an offence.

Life is very simple in conspiracy world, isn't it? Any terrorist stopped from committing an atrocity is a dreamer who would not really have done it, any terrorist who tries and fails is a simpleton who would never really have been able to do it, any terrorist who succeeds is a patsy for sinister forces who have set him up, or wholly innocent and caught up in the event. Are there any exceptions?

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brian
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No wonder satirists struggle these days, real life leaves them standing.

Here we have a man who The Independent tells us was -

"...one of the highest ranking British al-Qa'ida operatives to be captured"

And -

"...had been handpicked and sent on assignments by the mastermind behind the September 11 atrocities."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article1962457.ece

The same article -

"Despite not finding any explosives or bomb-making equipment, Mr Justice Butterfield said it was clear that Barot's "chilling" plans were "no idle plot".

So here we have a TOP operative who after YEARS of planning had not managed to cannibalise EVEN ONE of the tens of thousands of smoke alarms he was seemingly going to use to make his "dirty bomb"

Nor had he made any attempt to procure any items for his other supposed grand schemes.

It is so ridiculous that even those that swallow it must be somewhat reassured by the knowledge that these terrorists are at best lacksadaisacal if not total deadbeats from the manyana school of terrorism.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Barot ... or Borat? Reply with quote

From the Independent:
Quote:
(Barot)...had been handpicked and sent on assignments by the mastermind behind the September 11 atrocities.

Now that I can quite believe ... but it ain't who we're supposed to think it is!

From the BBC Website:
Quote:
Barot was called a "determined terrorist" by Scotland Yard

This is a plot worthy of Borat ... but whoever Barot really is, he must have pissed someone off ...bigtime!

Al K Myst
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andrewwatson
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borat...Barot... Life sentence for planning and plotting... no evidence of bombs found...

Wake me up when I've stopped dreaming.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real Threat

Dame Eliza has been Director General of MI5 since 2002 and, prior to that, deputy director general for five years and has spent 32 years in the UK intelligence community.

She acknowledged the fact that some people accuse her organisation and others of hyping up the threat and that people are reluctant to accept assertions that do no always appear to be substantiated.

But she argued that while it was right to be sceptical about intelligence, the threat was real.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6134516.stm
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Mark Gobell
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did he plead guilty ?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bushwacker wrote:
wepmob2000 wrote:
It's not as if they actually found any stretch limos packed with explosives, like the guy planned to, all the Police ever found were plans, and no evidence he had taken steps to carrying out these plans. Reading the account in The Times this morning, he came across as more of a Walter Mitty type character than anything else.

Having said that perhaps everyone had better watch what they write and say, as it seems that words, not deeds, are enough to get you convicted these days.

He was a planner, not an operative. Planning a crime has always been an offence.

Life is very simple in conspiracy world, isn't it? Any terrorist stopped from committing an atrocity is a dreamer who would not really have done it, any terrorist who tries and fails is a simpleton who would never really have been able to do it, any terrorist who succeeds is a patsy for sinister forces who have set him up, or wholly innocent and caught up in the event. Are there any exceptions?


I don't remember saying that what Barot did wasn't wrong, he's clearly a nasty piece of work with some nasty plans. He does deserve punishment for this.

However theres still a difference between intentions and the realistic probability of carrying them out. I could give my pet Jack Russell a typewriter and concoct a plan whereby he will win the Booker prize in two years time, doesn't mean its going to happen though. Barot had spent 9 years planning such attacks, he might have yet succeeded, but more likely would have died of old age in the meantime.

To have this guy billed as the greatest terrorist threat since 9/11 is insulting to the intelligence of most people. Some kind of evil genius he was most certainly not, more of a delusional fantasist.

Why is it that when one of these terrorist threats is unveiled they come across as.... well... not very threatening, more of a Walmington-on-Sea type threat? Moreover they seem to be announced at fairly regular intervals just to remind us of the threat. I don't recall such occurrences when the PIRA was at its most active, now there was a sinister threat.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Webmop
This is a complete insult
And what a huge and ridiculous sentence
I recall George Blake was bust out of prison for more or less
This is a wholly fascist state we're coming under

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, somebody thought it was worthwhile to bankroll him for all that time while he developed plans for terror attacks. So if he was a delusional fantasist, he was one with a good sales patter.

PIRA was not always as efficient at terror as it later became, one of their operations involved dropping milk churns packed with explosives from a helicopter failed totally because they failed to use any form of detonator.

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wepmob2000
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's to say who was really bankrolling Barot, the whole idea of a cell structure is that one group has no idea who the others are. The whole thing is rather convenient in many regards, and wholly beneficial to our unpopular government. A 40 year sentence in the absence of hard evidence of any deeds is, I think, without parallel in recent British history.

Dh is 100% correct when he states "This is a wholly fascist state we're coming under". Scarily the erosion of our liberties is a death of a 1000 cuts, which most people will be quite unaware of until it's too late. It's clever and subtle, and goes way beyond the obvious Orwellian state of constant war we now find ourselves in. To exemplify.....

-Why impose a curfew when groups of unpoliced yobs have the same effect?

-How is it a person cannot walk 200 metres in the average town without coming under CCTV surveillance, and yet cannot walk this far without reasonable fear of being accosted or assaulted?

-Why is the Government response to the Stern report almost certain to involve 'black box' trackers in cars, when there are a multitude of simpler, cheaper and more effective measures that remain unconsidered?

-Why are Police resources wasted on speed enforcement at so-called 'accident blackspots', when there is no such enforcement at obvious danger spots like schools, and yet people are afraid to leave their homes for fear of violent crime?

-Why is the government seemingly unconcerned about rising debt, maybe an indebted populace is a more compliant populace?

-Why does the government allow this increase in indebtedness to continue with a lax immigration policy further heating an already overheated housing market?

I could go on and on here, but its late and I'm tired. However, the Barot case does seem to indicate an alarming shift towards a possible future law against 'thought crime'.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject: Was he imprisoned? Reply with quote

The police called him a 'terrorist'.

No actual evidence was found for a crime apart from a thought crime as reported by the media.

So the conclusion can only be that he isn't even inside.

For the 'war on terror' to continue even after its sell by date, news stories have to exist permanently.
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Mark Gobell
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did he plead guilty ?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: A number of reasons Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
Why did he plead guilty ?


He owes money.
He committed another crime and he is paying with this one.
Family members are being threatened.

To name a few.

But I do recall Guy Fawkes pleading guilty as well.
So did the Birmingham Six.

Pleading guilty for crimes one hasn't committed is the oldest trick in the book.

Please tell me how one is convicted with no evidence?

That is a more appropriate question.

Obviously if we start from the principle he is a 'terrorist' then he must be one, we then dispense with the formalities of ...evidence, courts etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: MI5 and Elizabeth Manningham-Bonkers Reply with quote

If you want a good laugh have a look at the BBC Have Your Say site. There are comments about MI5's 'warning' about 1,600 16-year-olds with nuclear weapons ready to blow themselves and us up for 20 years. It seems many people in this country are waking up to the terrorism scare tactics and the 1984 nature of this Government.

It seems that the Mid-term elections have opened up the possibility to torpedo the Anglo-AMerican Establishment's plans.


http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=4664&&&edition=1& ttl=20061110115740
Added: Friday, 10 November, 2006, 10:31 GMT 10:31 UK

I'm sorry, I just don't believe in coincidence. She's part of the establishment and has probably been given the nod to let it slip how much 'danger' we are all in - as if they would give away official information like that! I reckon the government is spooked by the American mid-term election results and wants to keep our attention. But someone should tell her and her masters that Halloween's over.

Wendy Simpson, Bournemouth, United Kingdom

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Added: Friday, 10 November, 2006, 10:31 GMT 10:31 UK

I read Orwell's 'Nineteen Eighty Four' for the first time last summer. There are some huge parallels between that fictional story and today's Climate of Fear.

Liz J, Didcot, United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely. I'm heartened to see how many people have recommended comments saying it's all fearmongering and obviously timed to get fear back in the headlines just when the US populace has shown signs that they're no longer falling for Bush's bs. The good thing is the British are more naturally cynical than the Americans so we're starting from a better position in this country to wake up the sheeple. There will always be the Sun and Daily Mail reading lost causes, but we must seize the intiative now. Bliar has got to get the message that the British public won't fall for this fearmongering nonsense any longer. Fear is all he has to sell and we all must not buy. Get the war criminal marginalised and claim this country back for decent people.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Incidents of terrorism Reply with quote

“We wanted to find out what the relationship is between the reporting of terrorism and the actual volume of terrorism. We looked at the US State Department’s own report on terrorism. Few reporters look at this. This data contradicts the White House messages on terrorism.

“From the mid-1980s, the volume of terrorism has declined. The years of the fewest terrorist incidents were 2002 and 2003. There’s been a decline in the volume of terrorism and deaths because of terrorism since its height in 1981. The media picture is that it went up in 2001 and has been high ever since. There’s not much relationship between terrorism and the media coverage.”

- Professor Justin Lewis, Cardiff School of Journalism, at the Media Workers Against the War meeting, London, 30/10/06
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: A number of reasons Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:
Mark Gobell wrote:
Why did he plead guilty ?


He owes money.
He committed another crime and he is paying with this one.
Family members are being threatened.

To name a few.

But I do recall Guy Fawkes pleading guilty as well.
So did the Birmingham Six.

Pleading guilty for crimes one hasn't committed is the oldest trick in the book.

Please tell me how one is convicted with no evidence?

That is a more appropriate question.

Obviously if we start from the principle he is a 'terrorist' then he must be one, we then dispense with the formalities of ...evidence, courts etc.

Are you doubting that Guy Fawkes was guilty? Will you start a campaign? I can see the banners now: Guy Fawkes is innocent - Bonfire Night a mistake!
The Birmingham Six did not plead guilty, in court they repudiated the confessions they said had been written by the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad and they had been forced to sign. In their third appeal, the court accepted that.
The answer to your question is that you are convicted with no evidence if you plead guilty, the prosecution then simply goes through what has been established about the crime.
Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime. That is what he pleaded guilty to, no doubt because of the weight of evidence against him.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Cecil, Earl of Salisbury was England's Spymaster and his speciality was uncovering plots or rather, plots that he had himself set up in order to frame enemies of the state to make himself look good. Cecil had met Guy Fawkes's co-conspirator Robert Catesby previously, when he had uncovered the "essex plot" and had spared Catesby from execution. Catesby was recruited or blackmailed by Cecil as a double agent to create the Gunpowder plot allowing a crackdown on Catholics and justifying a war with Spain
Guy Fawkes had previously attended the society wedding of the Earl of Montgomery to Cecils niece, an event also attended by James I. Hardly the murderous Catholic portrayed
A patsy in fact

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Fawkes vs Faux Reply with quote

FFS, even the name is a giveaway:

Guy FAUX

In plain site for 401 years!!

Al K Myst
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting then to know what the expert witness had to say about the effectiveness of the alleged plot.

"The expert evidence, from a witness described as EU, is that the radiation project, if carried through, would have been unlikely by itself to cause death as opposed to causing considerable fear, panic and social destruction."

So, ably assisted by his "defence team" one could be forgiven for questioning why said defendant was encouraged to cop a guilty plea to Conspiracy to Murder when in fact this possible outcome was deemed "unlikely".

Ian Macdonald QC, representing Barot, said the radiation plot had not been intended to kill.

Strange but true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1920901,00.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Fawkes vs Faux Reply with quote

alkmyst wrote:
FFS, even the name is a giveaway:

Guy FAUX

In plain site for 401 years!!

Al K Myst


Oh yeah. Thanks for that thought. How strange!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
Interesting then to know what the expert witness had to say about the effectiveness of the alleged plot.

"The expert evidence, from a witness described as EU, is that the radiation project, if carried through, would have been unlikely by itself to cause death as opposed to causing considerable fear, panic and social destruction."

So, ably assisted by his "defence team" one could be forgiven for questioning why said defendant was encouraged to cop a guilty plea to Conspiracy to Murder when in fact this possible outcome was deemed "unlikely".

Ian Macdonald QC, representing Barot, said the radiation plot had not been intended to kill.

Strange but true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1920901,00.html

If you read your own link, you will see that his other plans were designed to kill people.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. There was I focussing on the "dirty bomb" aspect only.

I am still unsure as to how the discovery of the "gas limo project" files on a laptop in Pakistan implicates Dhiren Barot though.

Any ideas ?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
Indeed. There was I focussing on the "dirty bomb" aspect only.

I am still unsure as to how the discovery of the "gas limo project" files on a laptop in Pakistan implicates Dhiren Barot though.

Any ideas ?

From your link:
"Details of the gas limos project were found on Barot's computer, and were the "main cornerstone" of a series of attacks in the UK, the court heard."

From the Telegraph:
"Mr Lawson said that there was DNA and fingerprint evidence linking Barot to conspiracy plans found on DVDs and other computer equipment."

Other reports do refer to documents in Pakistan, and there is mention of a laptop, but the thing about computers is that the same document may well be on more than one.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes the Grauniad does make it all appear rather straightforward doesn't it. A genuine mistake or dis-info ?

The Met has it this way:

The Metropolitan Police wrote:
terror65-04gaslimos - known as the 'Gas Limos Project', found on a laptop computer during a search of a house in Gujurat, Pakistan. The basis of this project was to explode gas and explosives packed into limousines or other large vehicles in underground car parks in the UK in co-ordinated attacks. The document itself states that research for the project had taken over a year and it had been costed. The document also refers to the Madrid bombings of 11 March 2004 as a 'respectable project' that 'deserved to be emulated'.


http://www.met.police.uk/pressbureau/rhyme/index.htm

No Rhyme of Reason why the Grauniad should have got this one wrong is there ?

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