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BBC Humiliated In Botched Niels Harrit 9/11 Interview

 
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Disco_Destroyer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: BBC Humiliated In Botched Niels Harrit 9/11 Interview Reply with quote

BBC Humiliated In Botched Niels Harrit 9/11 Interview - May 2011


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Uploaded by EuropeanWatchman on 24 Mar 2012
The BBC attempted to interview Niels Harrit in an effort to produced heavily edited, biased material for their propaganda campaign against the truth getting out about 9/11.

Unfortunately however, Niels Harrit brought his own camera along and exposed the BBC for the Marxist cranks they are!

At 42:00-45:00 the BBC interviewer tries to assert that one of the 9/11 hijacker's passports, FELL OUT OF THE HIJACKERS POCKET AND FLUTTERED OUT OF THE CRASHED AIR CRAFT THAT WAS LODGED IN ONE OF THE BUILDINGS, DOWN ON TO THE PAVEMENT OUTSIDE THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE, WHERE IT WAS HASTILY PICKED UP BY FBI OFFICERS SHORTLY BEFORE THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED!... LOL!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9/11 Debris: Investigation of Ground Zero (Part 1) - Firefighters Speak Out


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Uploaded by Cincinnati911Truth on 27 Mar 2012
EXCELLENT VIDEO! Reposted from user CTV911 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnnXTrw88P4.



9/11 Debris: Investigation of Ground Zero, Pt. 2 (v. 2)


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Uploaded by CTV911 on 27 Nov 2010
"..surprisingly so little rubble." WHY? Evidence of extreme ruin: http://911conspiracy.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/molten-steel-extreme-tem peratur...

- by Anthony Lawson and Nick Irving -- watch "9/11: The Towers of Dust"
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJUP-Ry7d0

'120 Dumptrucks' of Debris, Priority Info for Press Conference

"We were able to move 120 dumptrucks out of the city last night, which will give you a sense of the work that was done overnight. So, some of the debris has already been removed."
- Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 9/12 press conference seen on NBC LIVE at 9:52 a.m.

Peter Tully of Tully Construction, while speaking about the operation as a whole, not his firm alone: "We had 75 trucks leaving a day during the first few days." (Debra K. Rubin and Gary Tulacz, with Thomas F. Armistead, "Crews Mobilize To Remove Debris But Painstaking Work Takes Toll," Engineering News Record, 9/24/2001. Online at
http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1431.pdf )

Mayor Giuliani: WHY LIE OR EMBELLISH?

PS The "Harley guy" voice repeating "mostly due to structural failure because the fire was just too intense" has been identified: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07hJhmiWZSY

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: BBC Humiliated In Botched Niels Harrit 9/11 Interview Reply with quote

Quote:
Galileo: I've written a peer paper reviewed paper that posits that the Earth is not, in fact, the centre of the Universe.

Mike Rudin: But I've interviewed a chap who says that's not true ...





Disco_Destroyer wrote:
BBC Humiliated In Botched Niels Harrit 9/11 Interview - May 2011


Link


Quote:
Uploaded by EuropeanWatchman on 24 Mar 2012
The BBC attempted to interview Niels Harrit in an effort to produced heavily edited, biased material for their propaganda campaign against the truth getting out about 9/11.

Unfortunately however, Niels Harrit brought his own camera along and exposed the BBC for the Marxist cranks they are!

At 42:00-45:00 the BBC interviewer tries to assert that one of the 9/11 hijacker's passports, FELL OUT OF THE HIJACKERS POCKET AND FLUTTERED OUT OF THE CRASHED AIR CRAFT THAT WAS LODGED IN ONE OF THE BUILDINGS, DOWN ON TO THE PAVEMENT OUTSIDE THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE, WHERE IT WAS HASTILY PICKED UP BY FBI OFFICERS SHORTLY BEFORE THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED!... LOL!



Mike Rudin shame on you.

What in the name of all that is reasonable is Rudin's agenda ?

Quote:
It's one of Mike Rudin's "inconvenient truths" that carbon based, diffuse, open air fires do not in fact melt or weaken cooking stoves and barbecues to the point of "global collapse".

They just don't Mike. They simply do not. No matter how may millions of dollars NIST wastes and how many words your fairytale du jour contains.

They do not.

Your own children will tell you that.



A messsage to Mike Rudin:

I will debate you on 9/11 any time you like. I imagine any one of a number of folk would too.

You come accross as a despicable, untrustworthy journalist with an undeclared agenda.

I am curious as to when, how and why you became so damaged. I'm assuming that you know that you are and have rationalised that as somehow being part of your job.

The really worrying possibility is that you actually might believe your own propaganda.

If you want to refute the thermite papers then all you have to do is to get Profs Pristorius and Freuhan to review those papers and offer a scientific critique, in the public domain.

That's the way it works Mikey.

It will alleviate your disposition to play the role of messenger boy and will allow you to concentrate on your "journalism".

It really is that simple.

Your gonzo "journalism" might suit your mates at the BiBiC but it really doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to scientific prepositions.

The rest of the informed 9/11 audience sees you and your methods as part of the problem.

Grow up and stop playing your silly games Mike.

For your own sake, but if not that, then for your children's sake.

*

Meanwhile, back in the real world of physics and chemistry, away from the Rudinesque perversion of reality bubble ...

Dr Neils Harrit website: http://nielsharrit.org/

Also Mr Rudin, there's this.

Since you evidently care so much about the 9/11 victims, I await your BBC report with baited, nano-particle free breath...

Quote:
Energetic Materials and 9/11 First Responder Illnesses

February 4th, 2011 Posted in DUST, KEVIN RYAN

The tragedy at the World Trade Center (WTC) on September 11th, 2001 continues to affect many thousands of first responders who sacrificed their own health while restoring lower Manhattan and attempting to recover survivors and victims’ remains. Recently, H.R. 847, otherwise known as the James Zadroga Bill, was signed by President Obama in an effort to provide services and compensation for those whose health was compromised through exposure to the toxic dust and gases at Ground Zero. However, these first responders also need help to understand how their illnesses originated so that improvements in treatment can be made. In response to this need, concerned citizens should consider the possible correlation between evidence for energetic materials at the WTC and the environmental exposures which appear to have caused so many illnesses in the first responders.

The 9/11 first responders suffer from a range of different illnesses, some of which are rare in the general population. Some of the illnesses can be attributed to the high pH of the WTC dust. We know the extent of the pH problem thanks to EPA whistleblower, Dr. Cate Jenkins.[1] The very high pH of the dust inhaled by 9/11 first responders is a probable cause for the general deterioration of lungs and their function, due to the dust’s corrosive state. As Dr. Jenkins wrote, “Corrosivity would have acted directly to cause respiratory chemical burns, and also would have increased the toxic properties of other pollutants from the WTC by facilitating their entry into the body through the respiratory system.”

Commonly observed conditions among first responders include reactive airways dysfunction syndrome (RADS), caused by exposure to high concentrations of irritants such as caustic and metallic dusts; upper respiratory illnesses such as sinusitis and laryngitis; and lower respiratory disorders such as asthma and what is known as World Trade Center cough.

Less understood, and requiring further study, are unusual illnesses of the immune system commonly observed in the WTC first responders. These include various types of interstitial lung disease, such as eosinophilic pneumonia, granulomatous pneumonitis, and bronchial obliterans. Environmental triggers for these illnesses include aluminum silicates, which have been found in the lungs of WTC first responders at high levels in “unusual platy configurations.” [2]

Other common WTC lung ailments include sarcoidosis, which is known to be caused by aluminum dust[3], and pulmonary fibrosis, which can be caused by aluminum oxide.[4]

These findings have, until now, lacked an adequate scientific explanation. But recent research suggests a correlation with the causes of the destruction of WTC buildings 1, 2 and 7. Aluminum oxide – a potential cause of the observed pulmonary fibrosis – is a product of the thermite reaction, and there is now considerable evidence for the use of thermite in the destruction of WTC buildings 1, 2 and 7.[5] Additionally, aluminum and silicates – potential causes of the observed illnesses of the immune system – are components of nanothermite formulations.

Thermite is a mixture of aluminum powder and a metal oxide that, when ignited, exhibits an extremely exothermic reaction producing aluminum oxide and the metal in molten form. The thermite reaction has been utilized for welding railroads ties and for cutting metal as with anti-tank grenades. Thermite has also been used to develop patented devices for the demolition of structures. One such device allows for demolition of a concrete structure “at a high efficiency, while preventing a secondary problem due to noise, flying dust and chips, and the like.”[6] A recent experiment shows that thermite can cut structural steel efficiently.[7]

Sulfur is often added to thermite mixtures to improve the burn qualities and it is then called thermate. Nanothermite, or superthermite, is a more recently developed variation on thermite in which the aluminum and metal oxide are mixed on the nanometer scale, allowing for more rapid energy release. Nanothermite can be a simple mixture of nanometer-scale powders or it can be made in a silicon matrix, through a solution-based technique, resulting in “sol-gel” nanothermite. The sol-gel process allows for the use of organic materials which expand during the reaction, providing more explosive power.

In 2009, an international team of researchers discovered what appear to be sol-gel nanothermite formulations in every WTC dust sample tested.[8] Additionally, similar to the findings of aluminum silicates in the lungs of first responders, the aluminum found in the nanothermite of WTC dust samples was present, along with silicon, in plate-like (platy) configurations.[9] Whether or not the platy configurations of aluminum silicates in the lungs of WTC workers are related to the platy configurations of aluminum and silicon in WTC dust samples is a question that should be answered through further investigation.

Environmental factors

A review of WTC environmental testing results produced by EPA and the University of California was published in 2008.[10] That review showed that air and aerosol emissions of sulfur and silicon compounds at Ground Zero provided evidence that energetic materials such as thermite and nanothermite were present. The silicon compounds (i.e. silicates) were indicative of the sol-gel variety of nanothermites, and the sulfur compounds suggested the presence of thermate, a sulfur containing derivative of thermite.

EPA also found very high levels of volatile organic chemicals (VOCs) that, like the aluminum, sulfur and silicon compounds, were discovered to be present in unusual spiking patterns. These spiking patterns suggest that extremely violent, explosive or incendiary events were occurring within the pile at Ground Zero over a period of months. If fires were the cause of these events, they would have had to have been fires that were driven by an agent that contained its own oxidant, as a thermite or nanothermite mixture does. This is because extensive efforts were made to put out the fires at the WTC site, including the use of millions of gallons of water and chemical fire suppressants, with little or no effect. In addition to the tons of dust from the buildings’ destruction and the rainfall events that occurred, these firefighting efforts ensured that normal fires would not have continued.

The presence of thermitic materials explains why the fires lasted for so many months, deep within the oxygen-poor pile, and why the fires were resistant to the extensive, but ineffective, efforts to extinguish them. In this scenario, the extreme levels of VOCs would be the result of the complete thermal degradation of all plastic materials in the thermitic (incendiary) fires. In normal structural fires with limited ventilation, plastic materials often burn incompletely.

The pattern of energetic events at Ground Zero, indicated by the spikes in emissions, was different than the expected trend of emissions from a typical structure fire. As was the case for other structure fires, particulate matter (PM) emissions at Ground Zero were high at first and then died down completely. However, PM emissions occurred for a longer duration, and the extreme, spiking emissions of VOCs, and components typical of thermitic mixtures, continued for many months after the particulate matter had died down.

Other unusual results from EPA monitoring included a compound called 1,3-diphenylpropane (1,3-DPP), which had never been seen before in any EPA studies yet was said to be abundant and pervasive at the WTC. Further investigation is called for due to the fact that 1,3-DPP is used to functionalize nanostructured silicas that are similar to nanothermite materials.[11]

Related to these environmental findings is the fact that first responders have been getting cancers at elevated rates. Many types of cancers have been reported including leukemia and the rare disease called multiple myeloma. The most prominent environmental cause of leukemia is benzene, which is one of the VOCs seen prominently in energetic spikes of emissions at Ground Zero. Benzene was detected at the WTC at levels that were dramatically higher than ever seen before in structure fires; even higher than what was seen at a large fire in a plastics factory.[12]

As for multiple myeloma, researchers associated with the World Trade Center Medical Monitoring and Treatment Program at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine examined many sick first responders. One result was that they found eight times the expected level of multiple myeloma in people below the age of 45.[13]

Environmental factors that cause multiple myeloma include phenoxyacetic acids, which are compounds that are structurally similar to 1,3-DPP. Another causal factor is DDT, a highly chlorinated diphenylethane.[14] Diphenylethane is structurally very similar to diphenylpropane (DPP). This suggests that the observed presence of 1,3-DPP could be a causal factor of the multiple myeloma seen in WTC first responders, in that derivatives of 1,3-DPP might be responsible for the illnesses.

Carbon nanotubes

In 2010, researchers reported the presence of carbon nanotubes in the lungs of WTC first responders.[15] Carbon nanotubes are high-tech nanostructured materials, which exhibit unique properties like ballistic conduction. The health effects of carbon nanotubes have been shown to be similar to the health effects produced by exposure to asbestos.[16]

Carbon nanotube formation requires three basic components: a source of carbon, a source of heat, and the presence of certain metals. In particular, formation of the single walled carbon nanotubes (SWCNTs) found in the lungs of first responders requires that the metals be present.[17] All of these requirements were met at the WTC site on, and for months after, September 11, 2001.

The three most effective metals for the synthesis of SWCNTs are iron, nickel and cobalt. Both iron and nickel were present in high concentrations near Ground Zero, as shown by aerosol testing done by a team from the University of California, Davis.[18] Iron oxide and nickel oxide are common oxidants in thermite mixtures.

Airborne carbon compounds were certainly present in abundance at Ground Zero in the form of particulate matter resulting from the fires. Heat was also in abundance, as extremely high temperatures were present on 9/11 and afterward at Ground Zero. These temperatures were at least 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, hotter than first reported by government scientists, and were far higher than temperatures seen in a normal structure fire.

The molten metal and vaporized silicates that have been reported in the WTC dust can only be explained by the presence of an exothermic reaction like the thermite reaction.[19] Large quantities of carbon nanotubes might have been formed at Ground Zero due to the high temperature environments created by the thermite reaction and the airborne metal catalysts that were also present.

A second possible explanation for the carbon nanotubes in the lung tissue of the first responders is that the carbon nanotubes were components of actual energetic materials that were used in the destruction of the buildings. Carbon nanotubes have been used as energetic modifiers,[20] to improve stabilization of explosives,[21] and to enhance ignition properties.[22]

Conclusion

Some of the illnesses suffered by the WTC first responders might be explained by the existing evidence of energetic materials, like thermite, at Ground Zero. For example aluminum, aluminum oxide and aluminum silicates are known causal factors for some of the common illnesses seen, such as sarcoidosis, pulmonary fibrosis, and the as-yet-unexplained immune system diseases. Furthermore, the rare cancers found in some first responders could be the result of environmental factors such as the unusually high levels of benzene and derivatives of 1,3-DPP which suggest the presence of energetic materials like thermite and nanothermite.

Analysis of the lung tissue of first responders has also indicated that energetic materials might be involved. The unusual platy configurations of aluminum silicates found in those lung tissue samples seem similar to the platy configurations of aluminum and silicon in the nanothermite that has been discovered in WTC dust samples.

The finding of carbon nanotubes in the lungs of first responders suggests two possible explanations. The nanotubes might have been formed in the unusual environment at Ground Zero, where extremely high temperatures and the presence of airborne metallic species gives yet more evidence for the presence of thermitic materials. Alternatively, the nanotubes might have been components of energetic materials. In either case, the presence of carbon nanotubes in the lungs of WTC first responders suggests the use of energetic materials and should be studied in more depth.

These facts and research findings warrant further study of the correlation between environmental testing results, first responder health study results, and the use of energetic materials at the WTC.

Notes

[1] Jenkins C. 2007. Complaint and Additional Evidence of pH Fraud by: USGS, OSHA, ATSDR, NYC, EPA, and EPA-funded scientists. Journal of 9/11 Studies 12. Available: http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/DrJenkinsRequestsSena teInvestigationOnWTCdust.pdf [accessed 19 January 2011].

[2] Wu M, Gordon RE, Herbert R, Padilla M, Moline J, Mendelson D, Litle V, Travis WD, Gil J. 2010. Case Report: Lung disease in World Trade Center responders exposed to dust and smoke: Carbon nanotubes found in the lungs of World Trade Center patients and dust samples, Environmental Health Perspectives 118 (4).

[3] Cai H, Cao M, Meng F, Wei J. 2007. Pulmonary sarcoid-like granulomatosis induced by aluminum dust: report of a case and literature review. Chinese Medical Journal 120 (17) : 1556-1560. Available: http://cmj.org/Periodical/PaperList.asp?id=LW200794512467004596 [accessed 19 January 2011].

[4] Jederlinic PJ, Abraham JL, Churg A, Himmelstein JS, Epler GR, Gaensler EA. 1990. Pulmonary fibrosis in aluminum oxide workers. Investigation of nine workers, with pathologic examination and microanalysis in three of them. Am Rev Respir Dis. 142(5):1179-84.

[5] Jones SE, Farrer J, Jenkins GS, Legge F, Gourley J, Ryan K, Farnsworth D, Grabbe C. 2008. Extremely High Temperatures during the World Trade Center Destruction, Journal of 9/11 Studies 19. Available: http://journalof911studies.com/articles/WTCHighTemp2.pdf [accessed 19 January 2011].

[6] Taku Murakami, US Patent 5532449 – Using plasma ARC and thermite to demolish concrete, http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5532449/description.html

[7] Cole, J. 2010. 9/11 Experiments: The Great Thermate Debate. 911Blogger.com. Available: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g [accessed 19 January 2011].

[8] Harrit NH, Farrer J, Jones SE, Ryan KR, Legge FM, Farnsworth D, Roberts G, Gourley JR, Larsen BR. 2009. Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe. The Open Chemical Physics Journal 2:7-31; doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007 [Online April 2005]

[9] Ibid

[10] Ryan KR, Gourley JR, Jones SE. 2009. Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials. The Environmentalist 29 (1):56-63; doi: 10.1007/s10669-008-9182-4 [Online 4 August 2008]

[11] Ibid

[12] Ibid

[13] Moline JM, Herbert R, Crowley L, Troy K, Hodgman E, Shukla G, Udasin I, Luft B, Wallenstein S, Landrigan P, Savitz DA. 2009. Multiple Myeloma in World Trade Center Responders: A Case Series. Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine 51(8 ): 896-902.

[14] Eriksson M, Karlsson M. 1992. Occupational and other environmental factors and multiple myeloma: a population based case-control study. Br J Ind Med 49(2): 95–103.

[15] Maoxin Wu, et al.

[16] Van Noorden R. 2008. Carbon nanotubes behave like asbestos. Chemistry World. Available: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/May/20050802.asp [accessed 19 January 2011].

[17] Height JH. 2003. Flame synthesis of carbon nanotubes and metallic nanomaterials. Dissertation submission to Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Department of Chemical Engineering.

[18] Ryan KR, et al.

[19] Jones SE, et al.

[20] Ramaswamy AL, Kaste P. 2003. Combustion modifiers for energetic materials. 34th International Annual Conference of ICT; Karlsruhe; Germany; 24-27 June 2003. 1-13.

[21] Patent issued to Raytheon Company, WO/2008/082724. Improved Explosive Materials by Stabilization in Nanotubes. World Intellectual Property organization. Available: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2008/082724 [accessed 19 January 2011].

[22] Manaa MR, Mitchell AR, Garza RG, Pagoria PF, Watkins BE. 2005. Flash Ignition and Initiation of Explosives?Nanotubes Mixture. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 127(40):13786–13787.



.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are trying for over 2 hours to psychologically break Niels. BBC is just a State propaganda machine Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco_Destroyer wrote:
they are trying for over 2 hours to psychologically break Niels. BBC is just a State propaganda machine Sad


Write to them now Disco and everyone else: See Campaigning

Quote:
Dear Dr Harrit

My name is Mark Gobell from England. Hello to you sir.

I am writing to you having just watched your interview with that awful creature, Mike Rudin from the BBC.

I would like to send my congratulations to you for persevering with the interview and for your professionalism in the way you fielded his interrogation.

Thank you very much Niels for that and for all of your work in 9/11 Truth research.

With love and respect to you and your family from England.

Mark Gobell



Quote:
Dear Mark

I only saw this mail after the other one I just answered.

Thank you so much for your encouragement.

Yeah, it was quite some confrontation with Rudin. It all happened under the table and we both knew.

We learn from Ian Henshall that there might be a new conference in the fall and we - Pernille, my wife and I - expect to go.

We hope to see you among all the other friends.

Best
Niels

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comment in The Guardian's CIF - What do you want to talk about section today:

Every few days they start a new WDYWTTA thread, so I post something silimar.

At least The Guardian cannot say that they haven't been asked to cover this, politely and repeatedly.

*

Quote:
Hello <moderator>

It would be great if you could use your immense powers of persuasion and influence to persuade your colleagues to at least consider an article on the following.

You would be doing a great service to truth and justice and to all those poor souls who have been affected by this outrage:

Thank you.

Dr Niels Harrit, now Emiritus Professor of Chemistry at Copenhagen University has produced a peer reviewed paper that posits some very strange anomalous nano sized particles in the dust produced by the WTC destruction in Manhattan on September 11th 2001.

His work follows on from that first revealed by Dr Steven E Jones, formerly Professor of Physics at Brigham Young Uni in Utah in his peer reviewed paper on the same subject.

Briefly, the material that they have found is unreacted nano engineered thermite.

Thermite is basically a highly energetic incendiary which can also be used as a military grade explosive.

Kevin Ryan has also produced an essay on the possible links to this active incendiary found in the WTC dust to the myriad pulmonary illneses documented in the 9/11 first responders.

President Obama, in his inaugural address promised to "restore science to it's rightful place", something that is now long overdue in the wake of NISTs complete silence on this subject and the lack of any peer reviewed responses to the work of Drs Harrit and Jones et al.

The only responses so far in the mainstream media have been hit pieces in the Practical Mechanics periodical and the disgraceful gonzo journalism of Mike Rudin at the BBC. Something that is currently being persued with the BBC Trust.

As Britain's leading liberal voice, The Guardian should and must cover this important peer reviewed science that has so far been virtually ignored by all and completely ignored by the scientific community.

The Open Chemical Physics Journal

ISSN: 1874-4125

[DOI: 10.2174/1874412500902010007]

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley and Bradley R. Larsen Pp 7-31

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips.

The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

See also: Kevin Ryan:

Energetic Materials and 9/11 First Responder Illnesses

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The usual CIF moderator is back from absence now. She had temporary stand ins while she was away.

This morning on a new WDYWTTA thread where ideas are sought for Guardian articles, I posted a very polite request for The Guardian to write an article about Dr Harrit's findings in his peer reviewed science paper noted above.

I included the title and abstract from his paper, a link to Bentham Open Journal and a download link for the paper.

I also provided an alternative angle for The Graun's Health journos to cover the same story vis Kevin Ryan's essay on the issue of 9/11 first reposnders.

The comment was deleted.

Normally when a comment on CIF gets moderated, all responses to that comment are also moderated but the reponses to my suggestion for an article, which were all of the tin foil hat variety, bar one, are allowed to stand.

I have asked the CIF moderation team what rules I have broken by making a suggestion for an article in a thread that asks for suggestions for an article.

I have also asked the CIF Editorial team and copied the Science Editor, for a response to my question about censorship of scientific issues.

I await with baited breath their response.



.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the daughter "Bella" of the Guardian's Editor, Alan Rusbridger is back on duty this morning as moderator in chief on the CIF WDYWTTA open thread.

This morning at The Guardian's CIF, having been taking part for 2 days on the same open thread as above, where Bella deleted my opening comment to suggest that The Guardian publish an article on Dr Harrit's science, I have been posting information in discussions with many detractors, about Dr Neils Harrit's paper and the STJ911 WTC High Temperature paper, Bella went and deleted most of my posts from this morning.

I have now been placed in pre-mod.

Banished to the CIF gulag for discussing the contradictory mainstream science vis 9/11 and the science from within the sceptic community, politely and with civility and respect.

I've endured two days of insults, abuse, epithets and plain old "why don't you just p*ss off" type comments. All such comments seem to be acceptable on CIF and all still stand.

We'll see what responses I get to my emails...


Quote:
Ideas for 6-10 April

Post your suggestions for subjects you'd like us to cover on Comment is free

Comments (998)

Bella Mackie
guardian.co.uk, Friday 6 April 2012 10.39 BST
Article history

Welcome to "You tell us", the thread on which you can share your ideas for topics we should be covering. Feel free to discuss the news of the day and add your suggestions in the thread below.

You can see the collection of articles commissioned via this thread by visiting the You told us page.


...

Quote:
IsabellaMackie

6 April 2012 12:27PM

We are not having a 9/11 discussion here are we? I'm sure there are forums for that elsewhere...


This chap Gegenbeispiel seemed very interested in the nano thermite particle claim in the WTC dust and asked for a link to the Dr Neils Harrit paper, so in response to that I simply posted the abstract and a link to the paper.

Look what they did to that important 9/11 information.

Quote:
8 April 2012 10:54AM
Response to Gegenbeispiel, 8 April 2012 10:45AM

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.


A couple of supportive comments:

Quote:
HowMeanisMyDetractor

8 April 2012 10:38AM
Response to me, 8 April 2012 10:23AM

I am sorry for some of the rudeness you have encountered but take it from whence it came and don't let it put you off. Goodness knows there are posters here who could bore for England but who are for some unfathomable reason treated like they're the Oracle. For my part, newcomers are welcome and those with something different to say are a breath of fresh air.


My response to that was to say thank you for being a lone voice of reason on this thread.

Which then got deleted.

Quote:
HowMeanisMyDetractor

8 April 2012 12:09PM
Response to LetsTryAgain, 8 April 2012 11:51AM

The mob who proclaim themselves to be mainly socialist and humanitarian, who believe in free speech, who hate the oppressors and question the Masters ... have got someone deleted as they always do.


and in response to that, the chap who earlier told me to p*ss off, to which I did not resond at all posted this:

Quote:
LetsTryAgain

8 April 2012 12:12PM
Response to HowMeanisMyDetractor, 8 April 2012 12:09PM

I actually did not report him, but I believe the mods were correct to delet his posts.

Troofing has no place in rational debate.

Please don't tell me you also wear a tinfoil hat when it comes to 9/11.


As if this CIF thread is in any way rational at all, ever.

And as if scientific contradiction in the mainstream science (NIST vs RJ Lee for example) is somehow "troofing" ...

Earlier "LetsTryAgain" equated 9/11 issues with hate speech.

Quote:
LetsTryAgain

8 April 2012 10:41AM
Response to HowMeanisMyDetractor, 8 April 2012 9:55AM

Quote:
HowMeanisMyDetractor, 8 April 2012 9:55AM

The comment made to him was actually a barefaced attempt to hound another poster off here and an exhortation to gang up on him/her and would not be tolerated if made by most other posters.


I see no reason why the barefaced lies and paranoid conspiracy theorising that is troofing, shouldd be tolerated, any more than hate speech should.


The post to which HMIMYD referred to as an "exhortation to gang up" was a post made by one ArecBalrin a CIF above the line (ATL) contributor who called for everyone to report my posts for trolling (on a thread without a topic / subject) and spamming ...

When he was one of the main people with whom I was supposed to be in a discussion with and who insisted on me posting actual links and paragraphs from essays to which I had already linked to because he found the essays difficult to read ...

And then when I did he was the chief antagonist who threatened to report me ...

Belief beggared.


This is classically typical of the responses elicited so far to Gegenbeispiel who seems interested in Dr Harrit's thermite paper:

Quote:
Gegenbeispiel

8 April 2012 1:34PM

ArecBalrin: >"I GIVE UP"

Please don't. There's a potentially interesting paper on alleged bits of nanotechnology thermite debris:
http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.htm?TOCP J/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

I'm gonna study it if/when I feel up to it (lazy unambitious slob that I am).




Quote:
Adhamhnan

8 April 2012 1:46PM
Response to Gegenbeispiel, 8 April 2012 1:34PM

Might want to keep this in mind when doing so:

Furthermore, there is an alternative explanation for the "thermitic material" the sceptical scientists found in the dust - it is just a type of primer paint. It's calculated 1,200,000 tonnes of building materials were pulverised at the World Trade Center and most minerals are present in the dust (not necessarily in a large quantity). More extensive sampling of the dust has not found any evidence of thermite or explosives, says a report from the US Geological Survey and another from RJ Lee.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14665953




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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The commenting priviledges have now been disabled on my CIF account.

The Guardian - CIF

"Where comment is free - but truth is sacred."

C P Scott would be impressed I'm sure with Britain's "leading liberal voice".

As far as 9/11 is concerned, The Guardian CIF is more like Samizdat ...



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

I added a few comments to the thread. Perhaps you can go in and like them Smile

There's the usual dingbats there...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one sp.

Bella the main moderator is just awful and is the daughter of The Graun's editor - see above.

She was described by Private Eye "as having the good grace not to use her father's surname" ...

The CIF WDYWTTA has come in for a lot of deserved criticism for being hugely incestuous.

The main antagonists labour under the delusion, once any opposing posts have been deleted, that they have debunked any and all arguments.

They haven't, their level of knowledge about 9/11 issues is embarassing.

The chap who claimed to offer peer reviewed evidence in opposition did no such thing.

Some are clearly just deliberately lying and are as you suggest useful propagandists.

One chap whom I responded to this morning by politely illustrating that he'd missed the fact that lead volatilzes at 3,164 deg F

I pointed all of this out to him because it was in the essay I'd linked to and because he was using the notion that ordinary solder starts to oxidise to 300 deg or some such.

I kid you not.

My posts that clarify the issue by quoting the exact paragraph and then qutoing the link to the general chemistry page that show the volatizing temperature of lead, gets deleted.

So I have no idea what was wrong with asking for that, as it is the purpose of the thread after all.

Maybe they just don't like 9/11 being discussed ?

I then get banned.

It's just a game to them.

I've written to the CIF editors because of the rather crass moderating this entire weekend but I'm not hopeful they will even respond.

They don't normally.

At least a couple of posters were supportive - it is an open thread after all.

The scene was set on Friday morning pretty much as the new thread opened because my polite request for an article on Niels Harrit's science, was deleted.

Britain's leading liberal voice?

I think that some of them must have been about 10 when 9/11 happened and I sense that it's definately not "cool" to have doubts about 9/11 in some quarters ...



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are maybe up to three professional PysOp operatives on that thread. Tough one to crack. Most forums now seem to have their CIA agents to either dismiss arguments or corrupt the message.

There was a very good article by James Corbett about reclaiming the tag of being "skeptical" - the current official skeptics, for example, seem to be government cronies.

http://www.corbettreport.com/episode-221-reclaiming-skepticism/
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a typical example of many in the last few days of The Guardian's CIF moderation vis 9/11:

I was in premod when MindOverMatter posted this but was shortly thereafter taken out of premod, so I responded and my post got through.

I save all my posts made at CIF:

Quote:
10:00 on 9.4.2012

MindOverMatter

8 April 2012 4:26PM

Ah, I take it shring has been disappeared.

Oh well, in case he's reading, I promised him some feedback on the report by Jones et al. I am a mutated rabbit of my word.

Regarding the Mo sphericule I'll just refer back to my comments about alloys. The analysis they give would certainly indicate that it's likely from an alloy. In this case it contains aluminium so perhaps an aluminium alloy. So why maintain the pretence that it could only be pure Mo and therefore rely on it's melting point as an indicator of higher temperatures. I think we can guess.

The report is really breathtaking in some areas. The one I was laughing at was a true gem:

From the RJ LEE report:

The presence of lead oxide on the surface of mineral wool indicates the existence of extremely high temperatures during the collapse which caused metallic lead to volatilize, oxidize, and finally condense on the surface of the mineral wool [1].

Observation by Harris report:

Quote:
The temperature required to volatilize/boil lead is 1,740 C or 3,164 F [8]. No explanation for the origin of the indicated “extremely high temperatures during the collapse” is offered in the RJ Lee report.


But conversion of lead metal to lead oxide begins at 600C. Just think logically. Take the use of old tin lead solder. One of the risks associated with using it was the volatilisation of lead in solders which melted at just 300C! That and the environmental consequences of disposal were the reason it was banned in Europe by the RoHS Directive.

Even with a basic level of science you should be able to see this is utter bs.



Here's my post in response that got deleted:

MOM - thanks for your response.

Here's my response to yours:

1. Molten molybdenum

The Mo rich spherules detected in the dust but unreported by the USGS report is a mystery.

Last night, in an effort to get a clearer understanding of the Mo rich particle, I emailed Dr Niels Harrit to see if there were any estimates of how much lower the melting point of the Mo rich spherule would be because it is mixed with other elements.

His reply:

Quote:
Dear Mark

I am not in a position to give a quantitative estimate on the melting point of the molybdenum rich spheres. Everybody would agree that it is ridiculously high compared with available temperatures in office fires.

Best. Niels


So the Mo particle presently remains a mystery.

2. Volatilized Lead

Definition of volatilize from a google search:

vol·a·til·ize/ˈvälətlˌīz/

Verb: Cause (a substance) to evaporate or disperse in vapor. Become volatile; evaporate.

You quote correctly from the RJ Lee Group report on the WTC dust signature that they report that lead had volatized, then oxidized and finally condensed on the surface of mineral wool. [Page 5 of the link]

You then quote from this paper:

Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction

Written by Dr Steven E Jones et al (which you incorrectly ascribe to someone called "Harris".)

The relevant extract which you have quoted from page 5 of that report states:

Quote:
The temperature required to volatilize/boil lead is 1,740 C or 3,164 F [8]. No explanation for the origin of the indicated “extremely high temperatures during the collapse” is offered in the RJ Lee report


Footnote [8] in that paragraph refers to this link: http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/pb.html

And that link provides this information for Lead:

Boiling Point: 1740.0 °C (2013.15 K, 3164.0 °F)

So, all you need to do now to justify your claim that:

Quote:
Even with a basic level of science you should be able to see this is utter bs.


is to provide a source for the temperature of 3164 °F that is required to volatilize lead.

NIST claim a max gas temperature of the WTC fires as 1800 °F

RJ Lee did not provide a source for the required 3164 °F to volatilize lead.

Hope that helps.


*

A perefctly reasonable, polite response to someone who may have been accidentally mistaken about the science issue and has confused lead volatizing with electrical solder oxidising.

I clarify that and it gets deleted - my account is then closed


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOM has since come back with this response to the lead volatilizing issue:

Links in original post on Page 31

See above for what the "Extrememly High Temp" paper actually states, quoted directly from the RJ Lee report - reiterated by me in my post that got deleted.

He seems to have got 1800C figure from another poster who mentioned what I had said in my deleted, unviewable reply above. He still attributes that report to Harrit et al ...

This is the nature of CIF "debunking" ...

*

Quote:
MindOverMatter

9 April 2012 6:58PM

Ah well. I was bored. Shring wanted an article on that report and that lead assertion got under my skin. For anyone interested in why I find this so objectionable, read on (it's not particularly about 9/11). Others please feel free to scroll down.

<spurious science and toxic metals - demeaning to thousands>

One of the most objectionable little pieces of disinformation in the report issued by Harrit et al, was the notion that lead could only become volatile at 1800C (it's boiling point). This, they insist, is further proof that the conventional science got it wrong on max temperatures in the event of the fire. I must admit that it made me laugh on first reading, but apparently people are willing to go along with it.

Lead is a solid at room temperature. It melts at about 328C and it's boiling point is about 1750C.

Let's look at a couple of other substances:

Mercury is a solid below-38.83C, a liquid at room temperature, and it's boiling point is about 357C

Water is a solid below 0C, a liquid at room temperature, and it's boiling point is about 100C.

Insisting that only a vapour can be only be generated at the boiling point is cretinous science at it's worse. It misses the entire concept of evaporation - a natural tendency for materials once in a liquid form to establish an equilibrium in air, depending upon a number of factors. This is why we have special legislative protections for working with lead and mercury on the statute book. It also explains why a puddle of water can become vapour at below it's boiling point. Our entire existence relies on this fairly basic fact.

To find supposed scientists who will demean themselves to the extent that they will ignore science to this extent is depressing. And insulting. Those laws were developed to ensure safety in the workplace for thousands and are not replicated in other regions of the world.

Commonly, these metals like lead and mercury are found in Waste electrical equipment. Since the imposition of the WEEE directive we appear to have a thriving illegal export business of shipping WEEE to third world countries who do not enforce such laws. We have poor Chinese workers recovering mercury and Indian children melting lead solder from circuit boards. A slow death sentence.

Even in the UK we have problems, as this prosecution of a WEEE recycler where a pregnant woman (amongst many others) discovered she had been exposed to mercury and lead vapours demonstrates.

In the bizzaro world of Harris et al, these people have nothing to fear. Evaporation never occurs. We, in fact have never existed and the world isn't the lush and green place it can be - because it just can't happen! Just to sow doubt over "official" events at the WTC disaster.

This is "science" of it's worst and most contemptible type. Written by charlatans for credulous morons. It needs to be challenged, even if you think we are taking up your valuable bandwidth.


*

Confusing "vapours" from melting with RJ Lee's "volatilized" is the key here ...

Stating the blindingly obvious that lead volatilizes (boils) at 1740 C or 3164 F then oxidises and condenses, to CIFfers "is the science of charlatans written for credulous morons" ...

Remember that this is not the science of tin foil hat loony charlatan scientists ...

It was in the RJ Lee report commissioned by Deutsche Bank ...

Which is why I chose this issue to illustrate the contradictions in the mainstream science of 9/11 ...

Simply staggering.



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These arguments always descend into madness - you are comparing a named scientist - a professor - with a peer reviewed paper - supported by other professors - with an unnamed disinfo agent backed by a bunch of semi-technically-literate PyOps agents bent on causing confusion and slagging people off.

On that thread, I had a discussion on Newtonian mechanics and freefall. I "won" the argument - but it makes no difference to the octopushers. Hopefully a couple of real people see the discussion and come on-board. My expectations are low though...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a very suitable article / topic here if anyone's interested:

Quote:
Comment is free

Science must be liberated from the paywalls of publishers

Research that is funded by the public should be freely available to all – a move to open access modes of publication is overdue

Comments (21)

Stephen Curry
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 10 April 2012 09.00 BST
Article history

Ball and Chain

Time to free scientific literature? Photograph: Corbis

As a scientist and citizen I want to see the universal adoption of the open access model of academic publishing, because it will be better for science and better for society.
...



The Bentham Open Jounral series being the vehicle of choice used by Dr's Jones & Harrit et al to publish the 9/11 science papers, the reasons for which Dr Harrit mentions in the original video post on this thread.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/

Perhaps the author / readership would like to field questions about the derision that such publications and that open vehicle have attracted ?



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On todays new Ideas thread on CIF, a poster again requests an article on Neils Harrit's paper and suggests Neils authors it:

Quote:
dierobdie

10 April 2012 11:39AM
Response to IsabellaMackie, 10 April 2012 10:49AM

Hello Bella.

The thread was huge. It was huger but a lot of posts have been modded. It would be interesting to know exactly what rules they had contravened and who if any out of the people in the debate requested that the posts be removed.

The thread was huge because a lot of people still think 9/11 is an interesting and important topic whether you think it was 19 guys with small knives and over in hours or an inside job with consequences still very much in effect today.

Professor Niels Harrit and his investigation was referenced many times.
Serious Article Suggestion.

Why not get Harrit to write a piece explaining his findings. There would be plenty of footnotes. All the science. Although his papers are all available for free. People could get stuck right in. If waddya got well over a thousand comments imagine what a front page thread would get!

Here is a link to a lecture Dr Harrit gave that I saw. Most of the criticisms of his work that I have seen over the weekend are rebutted nicely in the lecture. Dr Harrit has heard it all before and has the answers.
Part 1 Part 2


The daughter of the Guardian's Editor responds:

Quote:
IsabellaMackie

10 April 2012 12:05PM

dierobdie

I'm not going to commission anything on 9/1 theories. The discussion doesn't go anywhere new, and it's not really appropriate from a comment angle right now.


Like we've not even had one single Guardian article on Neils Harrit's Thermite paper...

Still, it's important to know that CIF, according to Isabella Mackie, daughter of The Graun's editor in chief, "doesn't do 9/11" ...

In addition to Part 1 and Part 2, there are several parts to Neils Harrit's presentation on YouTube linked above.

Be sure to catch Part 2C (starts around 8 mins in) where Niels explains and shows an extract from David Chandlers video of the destruction of the twin towers, showing projectiles turning 90 degrees and falling at a right angle to their original "trajectory" and others descending faster than freefall.

I'd not run into these aspects before.

Staggering stuff.



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