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Confirmation 9/11 airliners flying after twin towers strike

 
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redadare
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Confirmation 9/11 airliners flying after twin towers strike Reply with quote

From Pilots For 9/11 Truth:

Part Two - IT IS CONCLUSIVE - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE WELL AFTER CRASH

More information has surfaced which conclusively demonstrates the aircraft reportedly used on 9/11, were airborne well after their alleged crashes. This article supplements our last, "ACARS CONFIRMED - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE LONG AFTER CRASH" in which the ACARS system is explained as well as how to determine if a message were received by the aircraft, along with how ground stations are selected through Flight Tracking Protocol based on messages routed to United 175, N612UA.

We now have further evidence which places United 93, N591UA, in the vicinity of Champaign, IL, 500+ miles away from the alleged crash site in Shanksville, PA. This information is further corroborated by a (now former) United Airlines Manager of Flight Dispatch Michael J. Winter.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ACARS-CONFIRMED-911-AIRCRAFT-AIRBORNE-LON G-AFTER-CRASH.html

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And more info re implausability of any airliner striking Twin Towers or Pentagon at speeds claimed, from Veterans Today article, which though dealing with a 'UFO'/US advanced flying machine, states that airliners cannot normally operate at low altitude at speeds of more than 300 mph without starting to fall apart: (the stated 9/11 speeds were much higher than 300 mph):

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/14/exclusive-confirmed-american-u fo-over-korea/

'We then went to intelligence sources in Korea. There we learned an astounding story which we are not able to fully confirm. The aircraft, one that appears to be a “flying saucer,” is one of two American reconnaissance vehicles stationed on the Korean peninsula by the United States.

Forensic examination of the video indicates several key issues:

■This is a vehicle of significant size, larger than a commercial airliner.
■The initial speed is well above the speed of sound though it appears much slower
■The “break away” speed, as noted as the “blur” in the video is this aircraft reaching 16,000 mph within low atmosphere, something normally impossible because of drag in the heavy atmosphere at such low altitudes. Commercial passenger aircraft at such altitudes are generally incapable of reaching more than 300 mph without both engine and structural failures, verified by both engineers and commercial and military pilots.'

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scienceplease 2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:

Forensic examination of the video indicates several key issues...


Having seen this:

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/24/students_renovate_rendering_proc ess_for_synthetic_objects/

And this:


Link


And even this:


Link


The latter two movies done by students on standard PCs - then, you just cannot trust video, evidentially for anything!

Regarding the 300knots...

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-535278.html

This discussion between non-truthers indicates that the airliners could probably hold together but unlikely to reach 500 knots.

The first aircraft to attempt to break the speed of sound in public in the UK did indeed break-up and crash. However another aircraft did do it the same day.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/september/6/newsid_4219000/ 4219540.stm

However this was due to a complete misunderstanding of the strength of particular airframe structures - we have progressed somewhat since then...

However the likelihood of novice pilots being able to fly such a fashion - clearly at the edge of an airliners flight envelope - seems pretty remote...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scienceplease 2 wrote:
outsider wrote:

Forensic examination of the video indicates several key issues...


Having seen this:

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/24/students_renovate_rendering_proc ess_for_synthetic_objects/

And this:


Link


And even this:


Link


The latter two movies done by students on standard PCs - then, you just cannot trust video, evidentially for anything!

Regarding the 300knots...

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-535278.html

This discussion between non-truthers indicates that the airliners could probably hold together but unlikely to reach 500 knots.

The first aircraft to attempt to break the speed of sound in public in the UK did indeed break-up and crash. However another aircraft did do it the same day.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/september/6/newsid_4219000/ 4219540.stm

However this was due to a complete misunderstanding of the strength of particular airframe structures - we have progressed somewhat since then...

However the likelihood of novice pilots being able to fly such a fashion - clearly at the edge of an airliners flight envelope - seems pretty remote...


It wasn't me saying 'Forensic examination of the video indicates several key issues...', it was the US UFO article. My point in posting it, I believe, was perfectly clear: the statement from a Veterans group about the implausability of airliners (not years back, and I very much dought if the aircraft that broke up on a British attempt to break the sound barrier was an airliner! - but even if it were, as you say, we have progressed considerably since then) being able to fly at 300 mph (not knots) without serious engine and structural problems.

This is not the only place this kind of info is posted; there are articles on 'Pilots for 9/11 Truth also saying that the Boeings could not have attained the alleged speeds at the alleged altitudes.

Also, oddly for planes supposedly crashed into the Twins or Shanksville:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXGSefI6pM
(Don't be bothered by the 'Dalek' talk when video is slowed and blown up (expanded); the evidence is in the official plane ID info on the video, and the time it was recorded);
and:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/MORE-ACARS-CONFIRMATION.html

The part of my previous post that highlighted in red and bold was the relevant part of the article I wished to draw attention to.


I've just watched your proffered videos, and sure enough, the plane that broke up trying to break the sound barrier was a fighter, a DH 110.

Regarding the Forum disscussion between non-truthers,
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-535278.html
they were not only non-truthers but appear to be guessing; it doesn't state that any were pilots or had any plane structure knowledge, and the non-truther original questionner was left at the end still worried that the 'Truther' argument could be right.

My video sources are fuelled by pilots, who have a better claim to knowledge than the average Joe in the street.


But your videos of 'video fakery' are very worrying; I'm surprised the 'Evildoers' didn't come up with a convincing pic of Ossama sitting on the nose of the first 'alleged' plane to strike the North Tower, yelling:
!Allah Aqbar'!

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scienceplease 2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, Outsider - I did rush out that post too quickly. I was trying to get a slightly contrary view re the airliners breaking up. I know people that personally saw the airliner crash into the 2nd tower. (or at least thought she saw). Even if all the other crashes were "staged" - I just think the second crash must have happened - just far too many witnesses - even if there is other evidence of video fakery by the TV networks...

outsider wrote:

But your videos of 'video fakery' are very worrying; I'm surprised the 'Evildoers' didn't come up with a convincing pic of Ossama sitting on the nose of the first 'alleged' plane to strike the North Tower, yelling:
!Allah Aqbar'!


Yes, this video fakery has made me doubt the first crash entirely. All we have is that one "lucky" video. And yes, why were the Osama fake videos so bad! Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scienceplease 2 wrote:
Indeed, Outsider - I did rush out that post too quickly. I was trying to get a slightly contrary view re the airliners breaking up. I know people that personally saw the airliner crash into the 2nd tower. (or at least thought she saw). Even if all the other crashes were "staged" - I just think the second crash must have happened - just far too many witnesses - even if there is other evidence of video fakery by the TV networks...

outsider wrote:

But your videos of 'video fakery' are very worrying; I'm surprised the 'Evildoers' didn't come up with a convincing pic of Ossama sitting on the nose of the first 'alleged' plane to strike the North Tower, yelling:
!Allah Aqbar'!


Yes, this video fakery has made me doubt the first crash entirely. All we have is that one "lucky" video. And yes, why were the Osama fake videos so bad! Rolling Eyes


It is perfectly possible planes did hit the Towers, just not the Boeings the US govt. claim. Fighters and drones can reach high speeds at very low altitude. People may well have seen 'aircraft' hitting the Towers; it's then not difficult for them to assume they must have seen whatever type of aircraft the govt. claim.
After all, they could only have seen whatever it was for a fraction of a second.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:

Also, oddly for planes supposedly crashed into the Twins or Shanksville:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXGSefI6pM


I've just reviewed this youtube video and not really very convinced. Even if the caption did say UA175 it is not a proof of anything. There is no direct connection between a radar blip and the schematic displayed on a computer screen. If the radar does not pick up the blip or even the transponder id pinged back in the radar return it does not remove the graphic from the computer screen. The computer will continue to display the information until told not to. I doubt whether many programmers would test an "aircraft crash condition" in their radar display software - even if they did they'd probably want to know the last reliable known position of the aircraft so that they could direct search and rescue efforts! And this was a feed from an air traffic display - so even less reliable.

The comments below the video made some good points (despite the grinding "idiot" flames) One was the physical evidence that Lisa Frost was found in the GZ debris. His father responds to her death here:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/frost-316519-lisa-daughter.html

And a few other googles about his fund raising and marathon running all check out. This gives lots of indications that a real aircraft was used for the second crash. (Lisa was in UA175)

This is a strange story about her mother's near death experience - "not a suicide attempt" - which I just found...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-299712--.html
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe some sort of 'aircraft' was used, but not the Boeings alleged.

And have you checked out the ACARS information? According to Pilots for 9/11 Truth, this info is pucka and compelling.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:
I believe some sort of 'aircraft' was used, but not the Boeings alleged.

And have you checked out the ACARS information? According to Pilots for 9/11 Truth, this info is pucka and compelling.


I glanced over it... since Ptech was inserting blips into the air traffic control system it is very difficult to separate what is fact from fiction in this space.

This is the 9/11 timeline entries for this:

Quote:
(9:01 a.m.-9:04 a.m.) September 11, 2001: United Airlines Dispatcher and Air Traffic Control Coordinator Try Contacting Flight 175
Edit event

Ed Ballinger.Ed Ballinger. [Source: CNN]At the United Airlines System Operations Control (SOC) center outside Chicago, flight dispatcher Ed Ballinger learns that Flight 175 is suspected as being hijacked, and then sends text messages to try and make contact with it. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 23-24 pdf file] The SOC center has just been contacted by the United Airlines maintenance office in San Francisco, about a call it received from an attendant on Flight 175, who had reported that their plane had been hijacked (see Shortly Before 9:00 a.m. September 11, 2001). [Wall Street Journal, 10/15/2001] Subsequently, around 9:01 or 9:02, a dispatch manager at the SOC goes to Ballinger’s desk and informs him of the details of this call. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 23 pdf file] Ballinger is the flight dispatcher responsible for United’s aircraft flying from the East Coast to the West Coast, which include Flight 175 (and also Flight 93). [Chicago Daily Herald, 4/14/2004] At 9:03, he sends an ACARS message to Flight 175: “How is the ride. Anything dispatch can do for you.” (ACARS is an e-mail system that enables personnel on the ground to rapidly communicate with those in the cockpit of an aircraft.) At the same time, the United Airlines air traffic control coordinator also sends an ACARS message to the flight: “NY approach lookin for ya on [frequency] 127.4.” Just after 9:03, unaware it has now crashed into the World Trade Center, Ballinger and the air traffic control coordinator re-send these ACARS messages to Flight 175. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 9 and 23-24 pdf file] Twenty minutes later, Ballinger will remain unaware that Flight 175 has crashed and still be trying to contact it by ACARS (see 9:23 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 26 pdf file] All airlines have a staff of dispatchers like Ballinger who, under FAA rules, are responsible for monitoring aircraft in flight. They follow each flight’s progress, relay safety information, and handle any problems that arise. [Spencer, 2008, pp. 14 and 35] United Airlines dispatchers typically monitor up to two dozen flights at once. [Longman, 2002, pp. 68] Ballinger has 16 transcontinental flights taking off early this morning that he is responsible for. [New York Observer, 6/20/2004]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artificially produced 'blips' do not come into this.
This is a system where messages are automatically routed to nearest transmitter/receiver to the aircraft's actual position, just like a mobile phone.
No matter that the pilot or drone control doesn't answer, the system automatically reads the position the plane is in, just as if you don't answer your mobile, it still tracks your changing position, and routes messages, answered or not, through the nearest transmitter/receiver.
My understanding is, it still does this, even if your mobile is switched off (I know it can still transmit sound if activated by the 'Authorities', and transmit your conversations, even if switched off - this is something people should be aware of; the same for a home phone 'on the hook').
That is what the ACARS info from Pilots for 9/11 Truth is all about: FL 93 was nowhere near Shanksville, and was moving some 500+ miles away after the 'crash'.
Remember 'Operation Northwoods'?. The supposedly 'Mig-downed' aircraft would have been safely tucked up in it's hangar on the military base when the 'Mayday' was automatically broadcast.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outsider wrote:
Artificially produced 'blips' do not come into this.
This is a system where messages are automatically routed to nearest transmitter/receiver to the aircraft's actual position, just like a mobile phone.
No matter that the pilot or drone control doesn't answer, the system automatically reads the position the plane is in, just as if you don't answer your mobile, it still tracks your changing position, and routes messages, answered or not, through the nearest transmitter/receiver.
My understanding is, it still does this, even if your mobile is switched off (I know it can still transmit sound if activated by the 'Authorities', and transmit your conversations, even if switched off - this is something people should be aware of; the same for a home phone 'on the hook').
That is what the ACARS info from Pilots for 9/11 Truth is all about: FL 93 was nowhere near Shanksville, and was moving some 500+ miles away after the 'crash'.
Remember 'Operation Northwoods'?. The supposedly 'Mig-downed' aircraft would have been safely tucked up in it's hangar on the military base when the 'Mayday' was automatically broadcast.


Indeed Operation Northwoods would be a model - probably a starting point - it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a "spare" aircraft designated UA175 flying around in case the first aircraft missed or was intercepted by a stray fighter. The plan needed a successful crash.
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