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2nd Malaysian Airliner MH17 downed in Ukraine nr Russia
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short video clip, showing holes in cockpit area of MH17:
OCSE monitor mentions bullet holes in MH17:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4#t=15

and another short clip showing MH17 damage:
BREAKING! PROOF MH17 SHOT DOWN BY UKRAINE FIGHTERS - MH17 FALSE FLAG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiev/NATO are posting fake pictures of Kiev atrocities in order to discredit the real ones. More evidence of the extreme measures/super-sophistication of the psy war operation in Ukraine.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kievs-fake-picture-scam/5395298



The evidence suggests that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down by a fighter jet at 33,000 feet. Who could be behind such a dastardly plot? Is this a false-flag operation with a twist?
http://www.bollyn.com/#article_14832
We know that members of the Israeli military led the violent overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine in February 2014, and we know that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down while flying through the air traffic control region of Dnepropetrovsk, where the governor, Igor Kolomoisky, happens to be an Israeli billionaire involved in aviation companies. Furthermore, Yaron Mofaz, a relative of Shaul Mofaz, former chief of staff of the Israeli military, oddly took a photograph of the ill-fated Malaysian plane at the airport in Amsterdam shortly before it was shot down, which he then provided to Reuters.

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www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
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www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the best articles to date IMO

Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/03/flight-17-shoot-down-scenario-shi fts/

August 3, 2014

Exclusive: From magazine covers to pronouncements by top politicians, Official Washington jumped to the conclusion that Ukrainian rebels and Russia were guilty in the shoot-down of a Malaysian passenger plane. But some U.S. intelligence analysts may see the evidence differently, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

Contrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.

This judgment – at odds with what President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have expressed publicly – is based largely on the absence of U.S. government evidence that Russia supplied the rebels with a Buk anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
President Barack Obama delivers a statement on the situation in

President Barack Obama delivers a statement on the situation in Ukraine, on the South Lawn of the White House, July 29, 2014. (Official White House Photo by Lawrence Jackson)

Despite U.S. spy satellites positioned over eastern Ukraine, U.S. intelligence agencies have released no images of a Buk system being transferred by Russians to rebel control, shipped into Ukraine, deployed into firing position and then being taken back to Russia. Though the Obama administration has released other images of Ukraine taken by U.S. spy satellites, the absence of any photos of a rebel-controlled Buk missile battery has been the dog not barking in the strident case that Official Washington has made in blaming the rebels and Russia for the July 17 shoot-down that killed 298 people.

Given the size of these missile batteries – containing four 16-foot-long missiles – the absence of this evidence prompted caution among U.S. intelligence analysts even as senior U.S. officials and the U.S. mainstream media rushed to judgment blaming the rebels and Russians.

In making that case, Kerry and other senior officials relied on claims made by the Ukrainian government along with items posted on “social media.” These snippets of “evidence” included ambiguous remarks attributed to rebels who may have initially thought the shoot-down was another of their successful attacks on lower-flying Ukrainian military aircraft but who later insisted that they had not fired on the Malaysian plane and lacked the longer-range Buk missiles needed to reach above 30,000 feet.

If the U.S. intelligence analysts are correct – that the rebels and Russia are likely not responsible – the chief remaining suspect would be the Ukrainian government, which does possess Buk anti-aircraft missiles and reportedly had two fighter jets in the vicinity of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 at the time of the shoot-down.

Some independent analyses of the initial evidence from the crash site suggest the jetliner may have been destroyed by an air-to-air attack, not by an anti-aircraft missile fired from the ground. Yet, the working hypothesis of the U.S. intelligence analysts is that a Ukrainian military Buk battery and the jetfighters may have been operating in collusion as they hunted what they thought was a Russian airliner, possibly even the plane carrying President Vladimir Putin on a return trip from South America, the source said.

The source added that the U.S. intelligence analysis does not implicate top Ukrainian officials, such as President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, suggesting that the attack may have been the work of more extremist factions, possibly even one of the Ukrainian oligarchs who have taken an aggressive approach toward prosecuting the war against the ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

Obviously, a successful shoot-down of a Russian plane, especially one carrying Putin, could have been a major coup for the Kiev regime, which ousted Russian ally, President Viktor Yanukovych, last February touching off the civil war. Some prominent Ukrainian politicians, such as ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, have expressed the desire to kill Putin.

“It’s about time we grab our guns and kill, go kill those damn Russians together with their leader,” Tymoshenko said in an intercepted phone call in March, according to a leak published in the Russian press and implicitly confirmed by Tymoshenko.

The Shoot-Down Mystery

The Malaysia Airlines plane, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was not expected to be over the eastern part of Ukraine on the afternoon of July 17, but was rerouted to avoid bad weather. The plane was nearing Russian airspace when it was shot down.

Some early speculation had been that the Ukrainian military might have mistaken the plane for a Russian spy plane and attacked it in a scenario similar to the Soviet shoot-down of Korean Airlines Flight 007 in 1983 after misidentifying it as a U.S. spy plane.

In the two-plus weeks since the Ukrainian air disaster, there have been notable gaps between the more measured approach taken by U.S. intelligence analysts and the U.S. politicians and media personalities who quickly rushed to the judgment blaming the rebels and Russia.

Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an “extraordinary circumstantial” case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the U.S. government was “not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible.”

By then, I was already being told that the U.S. intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry’s allegations and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?”]

On the Tuesday after Kerry’s Sunday declarations, mainstream journalists, including for the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, were given a senior-level briefing about the U.S. intelligence information that supposedly pointed the finger of blame at the rebels and Russia. But, again, much of the “evidence” was derived from postings on “social media.”

The Los Angeles Times article on the briefing took note of the uncertainties: “U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [the Buk anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.”

That reference to a possible “defector” may have been an attempt to reconcile the U.S. government’s narrative with the still-unreleased satellite imagery of the missile battery controlled by soldiers appearing to wear Ukrainian uniforms. But I’m now told that U.S. intelligence analysts have largely dismissed the “defector” possibility and are concentrating on the scenario of a willful Ukrainian shoot-down of the plane, albeit possibly not knowing its actual identity.

A Hardened Conventional Wisdom

Nevertheless, even as the mystery of who shot down Flight 17 deepened, the U.S. conventional wisdom blaming Putin and the rebels hardened. The New York Times has reported Russia’s culpability in the airline disaster as flat-fact.

On July 29, Obama prefaced his announcement of tougher sanctions against Russia by implicitly blaming Putin for the tragedy, too. Reading a prepared statement, Obama said: “In the Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, and countries around the world, families are still in shock over the sudden and tragic loss of nearly 300 loved ones senselessly killed when their civilian airliner was shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine. …

“Since the shoot-down, however, Russia and its proxies in Ukraine have failed to cooperate with the investigation and to take the opportunity to pursue a diplomatic solution to the conflict in Ukraine. These Russian-backed separatists have continued to interfere in the crash investigation and to tamper with the evidence. They have continued to shoot down Ukrainian aircraft in the region. And because of their actions, scores of Ukrainian civilians continue to die needlessly every day.” [Emphasis added.]

Though one could argue that Obama was rhetorically tip-toeing around a direct accusation that the rebels and Russia were responsible for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down, his intent clearly was to leave that impression. In other words, Obama was pandering to the conventional wisdom about Russian guilt and was misleading the American people about what the latest U.S. intelligence may suggest.

It’s also grotesquely deceptive to blame the Russians and the rebels for the indiscriminate shelling by government forces that have claimed hundreds of lives in eastern Ukraine. The rebels have been resisting what they regard as an illegitimate coup regime that, with the aid of neo-Nazi militias from western Ukraine, overthrew elected President Yanukovych in February and then moved to marginalize and suppress the ethnic Russian population in the east.

By presenting the conflict in a one-sided way, Obama not only misled Americans about the origins of the Ukraine crisis but, in effect, gave the Kiev regime a green light to slaughter more ethnic Russians. By pointing the finger of blame at Moscow for all the troubles of Ukraine, Obama has created more geopolitical space for Kiev to expand its brutal onslaught that now has included reported use of poorly targeted ballistic missiles against population centers.

Obama’s covering for the Kiev regime is even more outrageous if the U.S. intelligence analysts are right to suspect that Ukrainian forces were behind the Flight 17 shoot-down.

And as for who’s been responsible for destroying evidence of the Flight 17 shoot-down, an assault by the Ukrainian military on the area where the plane crashed not only delayed access by international investigators but appears to have touched off a fire that consumed plane debris that could have helped identify the reasons for the disaster.

On Saturday, the last paragraph of a New York Times story by Andrew E. Kramer reported that “the fighting ignited a fire in a wheat field that burned over fuselage fragments, including one that was potentially relevant to the crash investigation because it had what appeared to be shrapnel holes.” The shrapnel holes have been cited by independent analysts as possible evidence of an attack by Ukrainian jetfighters.

Accepting Reality

Yet, given how far the U.S. political/media establishment has gone in its Flight 17 judgment pinning the blame on the rebels and Russia even before an official investigation was started, it’s not clear how those power-brokers would respond if the emerging analysis fingering Ukrainian forces turns out to be correct.

The embarrassment to high-level U.S. officials and prominent mainstream U.S. news outlets would be so extreme that it is hard to believe that the reality would ever be acknowledged. Indeed, there surely will be intense pressure on airline investigators and intelligence analysts to endorse the Putin-is-to-blame narrative.

And, if the investigators and analysts won’t go that far, they might at least avoid a direct contradiction of the conventional wisdom by suggesting that the Flight 17 mystery remains unsolved, something for historians to unravel.

Such has been the pattern in other cases of major mainstream mistakes. For instance, last year, some of the same players, including Secretary Kerry and the New York Times, jumped to conclusions blaming the Syrian government for an Aug. 21 sarin gas attack that killed hundreds of people in a Damascus suburb.

On Aug. 30, Kerry gave a bellicose speech filled with “we knows” but providing no verifiable evidence. A punitive U.S. bombing campaign against the Syrian government was averted at the last minute when President Obama decided to first seek congressional approval and then accepted President Putin’s assistance in working out a deal in which the Syrian government surrendered all its chemical weapons while still denying a role in the Aug. 21 incident.

Only later did much of Kerry’s case fall apart as new evidence pointed to an alternative explanation, that extremist Syrian rebels released the sarin as a provocation to push Obama across his “red line” and into committing the U.S. military to the Syrian civil war on the side of the rebels. But neither U.S. officialdom nor the mainstream U.S. press has acknowledged the dangerous “group think” that almost got the United States into another unnecessary war in the Middle East. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “The Collapsing Syria-Sarin Case.”]

It may seem cynical to suggest that the powers-that-be in Official Washington are so caught up in their own propaganda that they would prefer the actual killers of innocent people – whether in Syria or Ukraine – to go unpunished, rather than to admit their own mistakes. But that is often how the powerful react. Nothing is more important than their reputations.

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his new book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon andbarnesandnoble.com). For a limited time, you also can order Robert Parry’s trilogy on the Bush Family and its connections to various right-wing operatives for only $34. The trilogy includes America’s Stolen Narrative. For details on this offer, click here.

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www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cover-Up? Why Have the Media and Obama Administration Gone Silent on MH17?

Quote:
The deafening silence of the US media and government about the investigation into the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 one month ago reeks of a cover-up.

In the hours and days immediately after the crash, without a single shred of evidence, US officials alleged that the passenger jet was shot down by an SA-11 ground-to-air missile fired from pro-Russian separatist-held territory in eastern Ukraine. They launched a political campaign to obtain harsh economic sanctions against Russia and strengthen NATO’s military posture in Eastern Europe.

Picking up on the scent, the CIA attack dogs in the US and European media blamed the crash squarely on Russian President Vladimir Putin. The cover of the July 28 print edition of German news magazine Der Spiegel showed the images of MH17 victims surrounding bold red text reading “Stoppt Putin Jetzt!” (Stop Putin Now!). A July 26 editorial in the Economist declared Putin to be the author of MH17’s destruction, while the magazine ghoulishly superimposed Putin’s face over a spider web on its front cover, denouncing Putin’s “web of lies.”

Anyone comparing the media’s demonization of Putin with their treatment of Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi had to conclude that Washington was launching a campaign for regime change in Russia like those it carried out in Libya and Iraq—this time, recklessly pushing the United States towards war with a nuclear-armed power, Russia.

Having built up the crash into a casus belli against Russia, however, the US media suddenly dropped the matter completely. The New York Times has not found it fit to print a word on the MH17 crash since August 7.

There is no innocent explanation for the sudden disappearance of MH17 from the media and political spotlight. The plane’s black box has been held in Britain for examination for weeks, and US and Russian spy satellites and military radar were intensively scanning east Ukraine at the time of the crash. The claim that Washington does not have detailed knowledge of the circumstances of the crash and the various forces involved is not credible.

If the evidence that is in Washington’s hands incriminated only Russia and the Russian-backed forces, it would have been released to feed the media frenzy against Putin. If it has not been released, this is because the evidence points to the involvement of the Ukrainian regime in Kiev and its backers in Washington and the European capitals.

From the outset, the Obama administration presented no evidence to back up the incendiary charges that Putin was responsible for the MH17 crash. In his press briefing on July 18, the day after the crash, President Obama stated that it was still “too early for us to be able to guess what the intentions of those who might have launched this surface-to-air missile might have had.”

While cynically exploiting the crash to pressure and threaten Russia, Obama warned that “there will likely be misinformation” in the coverage of the crash. In a backhanded acknowledgment that he had no evidence to support his claims, he said: “In terms of identifying specifically what individual or group of individuals or personnel ordered the strike, how it came about those are things that I think are still going to be subject to additional information that we’re going to be gathering.”

In the event, the misinformation on the MH17 crash came from the Obama administration itself. Secretary of State John Kerry went on a media blitz on July 20, arguing that the pro-Russian separatists and the Russian government were responsible for the shoot-down.

The sole evidence he presented were a few, dubious “social media records” posted to the Internet. He presented unauthenticated audio recordings of separatists speaking of a plane crash, edited and released by Ukraine’s SBU intelligence agency, which works closely with the CIA; YouTube video clips showing a truck moving unidentified military equipment along a road; and a retracted social media statement claiming responsibility for shooting down a plane attributed to separatist leader Igor Strelkov.

Very quickly, the US government’s story line on MH17 began to collapse. At a press briefing on July 21, State Department spokesperson and former CIA Middle East analyst Marie Harf declared that the Obama administration’s conclusions regarding the downing of the plane were “based on open information which is basically common sense.” Challenged by reporters to provide the evidence, she admitted that she could not: “I know it’s frustrating. Believe me, we try to get as much out there are possible. And for some reason, sometimes we can’t.”

After a month during which Washington has failed to release evidence to support its charges against Putin, it is clear that the political offensive of the NATO governments and the media frenzy against Putin were based on lies.

If pro-Russian separatists had fired a ground-to-air missile, as the US government claims, the Air Force would have imagery in their possession confirming it beyond a shadow of a doubt. The US Air Force’s Defense Support Program utilizes satellites with infrared sensors to detect missile launches anywhere on the planet, and US radar posts in Europe would have tracked the missile as it shot through the sky. These satellite and radar data have not been released, because whatever they show does not fit the storyline concocted by the US government and media.

What has emerged, instead, is a drumbeat of evidence pointing to the US-backed regime in Kiev’s role in the MH17 shoot-down. The day after Kerry made his remarks, the Russian military presented radar and satellite data indicating that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet was in the immediate vicinity and ascending towards MH17 as it was shot down. This claim has not been addressed, let alone refuted by the American government.

NSA whistle-blower William Binney and other retired American intelligence agents issued a statement at the end of July calling into question the social media data presented by Kerry, and demanding the publication of satellite imagery of the missile launch. They added, “We are hearing indirectly from some of our former colleagues that what Secretary Kerry is peddling does not square with the real intelligence.”

On August 9, the Malaysian New Straits Times published an article charging the Kiev regime with shooting down MH17. It stated that evidence from the crash site indicated that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter with a missile followed by heavy machine gun fire.

While it is too early to say conclusively how MH17 was shot down, the preponderance of the evidence points directly at the Ukrainian regime and, behind them, the American government and the European powers. They created the conditions for the destruction of MH17, backing the fascist-led coup in Kiev this February that brought the current pro-Western regime to power. The Western media then supported the Kiev regime’s war to suppress opposition to the putsch in east Ukraine, turning the region into a war zone in which MH17 was then shot down.

After the murder of the 298 people aboard MH17, in which they played an important if as-yet unexplained role, Western governments and intelligence agencies seized upon the tragedy in a reckless and sinister maneuver to escalate war threats against the Putin regime. Silence denotes consent, and the deafening silence of the Western media on the issue of Kiev’s involvement in the MH17 crash testifies to the criminalization not only of the foreign policy establishment, but also of its media lackeys and the entire ruling class.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/cover-up-why-have-the-media-and-obama-adm inistration-gone-silent-on-mh17/5396372

ditto MH370
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MH-17 ‘Investigation’: Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out
Posted on August 24, 2014 by Eric Zuesse.
Perpetrator of the Downing in Ukraine, of the Malaysian Airliner, Will Stay Hidden
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/mh-17-investigation-secret-augu st-8th-agreement-seeps.html

Eric Zuesse
Regarding what caused the downing of the Malaysian airliner MH-17 in Ukraine on July 17th, the Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, reported in a brief Russian-language news story on August 12th, that four days earlier (August 8th) a representative of that nation’s Prosecutor General office, Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed the corresponding agreement.” This UNIAN report said that, “As part of the four-party agreement signed on August 8 between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia [all of which nations are allies of the United States and are cooperating with its new Cold War against Russia], information on the investigation into the disaster Malaysian ‘Boeing-777’ will not be disclosed.” In other words: the official ‘investigation’ is being carried out by four nations that, as U.S. allies, are hostile toward Russia. One of those four nations, Ukraine, is not only a prime suspect in possibly having shot this airliner down, but is currently waging a hot war to ethnically-cleanse the pro-Russian population out of southeastern Ukraine; and the initial ‘news’ reports in Western ‘news’ media regarding the downing of MH-17 had said that this airliner was probably downed by the local rebels there, who were trying to shoot down the Ukrainian Government’s bombers that are constantly bombing them. Some Western ‘news’ reports even speculated that perhaps Russia itself had shot this airliner down. If the UNIAN news-report is correct, then there is no way that the ‘investigation’ will be able to be released to the public if it indicates that the Ukrainian Government (which, according to that news-report has veto power over the making-public of the study’s findings) is blamed for having shot the airliner down.

On August 12th, another pro-Ukrainian-Government ‘news’ site, gordonua.com, headlined, as auto-translated by google, “GPU: The results of the investigation [into the] crash [of] the Boeing 777 will be released with the consent of the parties,” and said, “Information about the accident MH17 in the Donetsk region will be published in obtaining the consent of all the parties that are involved in the investigation.” UNIAN was cited there as gordonua’s sole source. ‘News’ media didn’t probe the matter further.

Until 23 August 2014, that seems to have been the last of the matter, as far as news reports were concerned, and both of those two news reports were just tiny squibs in the Russian language, published only in Ukraine, by supporters of the Obama-installed Ukrainian Government. The news was ignored both inside and outside Ukraine.

Then, on 23 August 2014, Global Research News published the first English-language news-report on this matter; it was based on the second Russian-language news-report, the one that had appeared at gordonua.com on August 12th. Global Research concluded from it that, “The Causes of the MH17 Crash are ‘Classified’.” Of course, this way of phrasing the matter is a slight oversimplification, because, actually, the findings will remain ‘classified’ only if, and to the extent that, the Ukrainian Government is found to have caused the airliner’s downing. In other words: this ‘investigation’ will not be published unless the Ukrainian Government and the other three nations that are performing it agree unanimously to publish it.

So: imagine a murder-case in which 298 innocents are slaughtered, and in which there are only three suspects (here: Ukraine, the pro-Russian rebels, and Russia itself), and one of those three suspects has veto-power on the making-public of the ‘investigation’ into that crime. Well: this is that murder-case, and the veto-holding ‘investigator’ and suspect is Ukraine. Neither of the other two suspects holds any such veto-power over this ‘investigation.’

In a sense, whether the official investigation into the downing will ever be made public is insignificant, just as would be any ‘investigation’ that is carried out by, or with veto-power from, one of the prime suspects in the crime that is being investigated.

The international public would obviously need to be fools in order for them to trust such an ‘investigation’ as that. Case closed?

President Obama got the economic-sanctions-increase against Russia, that he had wanted out of this shoot-down. Who needs any ‘investigation’ to determine this mass-killing’s actual perpetrator? Certainly not Obama. Ultimately, it is he who caused it, because he was the person behind this ethnic-cleansing campaign, without which ethnic-cleansing campaign the airliner itself wouldn’t have been downed.

The downing of this airliner goes straight back to the U.S. White House, which has already won what it wanted from it.

Those 298 corpses are just casualties of this U.S.-caused war, like the Ukrainians are casualties of it who live in the portions of Ukraine that had overwhelmingly elected in 2010 the Ukrainian President whom Obama ousted from office in 2014. Obama doesn’t want a President like that elected ever again in Ukraine; so, those voters are being gotten rid of, and ethnic cleansing is how it’s being done. And the residents there are likewise not being heard from in Western ‘news’ media, and nobody in the West is asking these victims what they think of the Ukrainian Government that Obama installed. Perhaps that’s because they are increasingly becoming a guerilla army to defeat the regime that Obama installed.

As to the specific operation that downed the plane, there is already a lot more information about that than the official ‘investigation,’ if that’s ever published, is likely to reveal, and it points clearly to the Ukrainian military as the perpetrator, in yet another of their ‘false flag’ operations. And unlike the Ukrainian Government’s charges that rebels shot it down by mistake, Ukraine shot it down with deadly purpose and knowing full well what they were doing.

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Capone must be turning in his grave. He controlled Chicago; the present bunch of sh*tehawks control the world, virtually.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malaysian Mainstream Media: MH17 was downed by a Military Aircraft, “Cannon Fire from Fighter Jet”

By Global Research News
Global Research, August 07, 2014
New Strait Times
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-mainstream-media-mh17-was-downe d-by-a-military-aircraft-cannon-fire-from-fighter-jet/5395134

The following report was published by the News Straits Times, Malaysia’s MSM newspaper, quoting previously published articles by Global Research pertaining to the downing of MH17.

This constitutes and important development.

It breaks the official consensus to the effect that Russia was behind the downing of the aircraft. The Malaysian MSM has presented a viewpoint which goes against that upheld by the Obama Administration

Listed below are selected GR references pertaining to the downing of MH17 by a military aircraft, which were used as source material for the NST article.

Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research Editor, August 7, 2014

US Analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft

By Haris Hussain

KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.

This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organisation. (emphasis added)

In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.

They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and Eurocontrol.

“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures.

“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.

Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.

Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.

Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.

Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine.

In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days”.

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.

Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence.

“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come later,” Parry had said.

Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit.

“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile.

“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly.”

He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.

“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.

“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.





The holes in the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 are believed to have come from 30mm cannon fire.
Copyright NST, 2014

Selected Global Research Articles on MH17

Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air Missile

Why?Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing MH#17

Systematically Reconstructing the Shoot-Down of the Malaysian Airliner MH17: The Guilt Is Clear and Damning

“Support MH17 Truth”: OSCE Monitors Identify “Shrapnel and Machine Gun-Like Holes” indicating Shelling.

No Evidence of a Missile Attack. Shot Down by a Military Aircraft?“

Washington’s Determination to Drive the World to War”: Will Putin Realize That Russia Holds The Cards?

Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17. “Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”

Why Won’t Obama Just Leave Ukraine Alone?

Deleted BBC Report. “Ukrainian Fighter Jet Shot Down MHI7″, Donetsk Eyewitnesses

MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed “False Flag”

Flight MH17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts

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Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'The Downing of Malaysia Flight 17: Sinister Pretext for War with Russia':
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39590.htm

'Mike Whitney

“There is no innocent explanation for the sudden disappearance of MH17 from the media and political spotlight. The plane’s black box has been held in Britain for examination for weeks, and US and Russian spy satellites and military radar were intensively scanning east Ukraine at the time of the crash. The claim that Washington does not have detailed knowledge of the circumstances of the crash and the various forces involved is not credible.”

– Niles Williamson, “Why have the media and Obama administration gone silent on MH17?”, World Socialist Web Site - http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/18/ukmh-a18.html

See: 11 minute you tube “MH17 – We know with 99% certainty who shot down MH17“

September 05, 2014 "ICH" - "Counterpunch" - The Obama administration has failed to produce any hard evidence that pro-Russia separatists were responsible for the downing of Malaysia Flight 17. The administration’s theory– that the jetliner was downed by a surface-to-air missile launched from rebel territory in east Ukraine– is not supported by radar data, satellite imagery, eyewitness testimony or forensic evidence. In fact, there is no factual basis for the hypothesis at all. It’s merely politically-motivated speculation that’s been repeated endlessly in the media to shape public opinion. The preponderance of evidence suggests a different scenario altogether, that is, that MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian fighters in an effort to frame the pro-Russia separatists and demonize Russia by implication. This is precisely why the MH17 story has vanished from all the major media for the last three weeks. It’s because the bloody fingerprints point to Obama’s puppet-government in Kiev.

So what are the facts?

Fact Number 1: There were eyewitnesses.

According to the Oxford dictionary, an eyewitness is “A person who has personally seen something happen and can give a first-hand description of it.” This is why eyewitness testimony is so important in criminal investigations, because what people actually see matters. In a capital case, eyewitness testimony can be just as damning as the bloody fingerprints on a murder weapon. In contrast, theories are of little or no importance at all. The administration’s missile theory is just obfuscating blabber intended to pacify the public with a soothing explanation that is entirely divorced from the facts. Eyewitness accounts help to cut through government bullsh** and uncover what really happened.

So, what did happen to MH17? Check out this blurb from a report by the BBC:


”The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly before the catastrophe. According to them, it was actually the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.

Eyewitness number one: “There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart, (Waves her hands to show the plane exploding) And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everyone saw it….

Yes, yes, It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was flying underneath…below the civilian plane.”

Many people saw what happened. Many people saw the Ukrainian fighter rise in a shark-on-seal type motion. Many people saw the explosion. Are these credible witnesses? Are they lying? Do they have a political agenda?

We don’t know, but we do know what they said. They said they saw a fighter (probably a Ukrainian SU 25) stalking MH17 just before it blew up. That’s significant and it should have a bearing on the investigation.

Fact Number 2: Russia picked up the Ukrainian fighters on their radar.

According to Russian military analysts:


“Russian monitoring systems registered Ukrainian airforce jet, probably an SU 25 fighter, climbing and approaching the Malaysia aircraft. The SU 25 was between 3 to 5 kilometers away from the Malaysian plane. The fighter is capable of reaching an altitude of 10,000 meters for short periods of time. It’s standard armaments include R-60 air-to-air missiles which are capable of locking and destroying targets within a range of 12 kilometers and which are guaranteed to hit their target from a distance of 5 kilometers.


What was a military aircraft doing on a route intended for civilian planes flying at the same time and same altitude of a passenger plane? We would like an answer to this question? …

To corroborate this evidence we have a picture taken at the regional air traffic control center at Rostov….Ukrainian military officials claimed there were no Ukrainian military aircraft in that area of the crash that day. As you can see, that is not true” (“MH17 Fully Exposed”, The Corbett report; Check minute 34:17 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4video

Repeat: “Ukrainian military officials claimed there were no Ukrainian military aircraft in that area of the crash that day. As you can see, that is not true.”

Kiev lied. Not only was one of their fighters in the vicinity, but the warplane also had the capacity to take down a jetliner.

Let’s be clear about how important this information is: We now have hard evidence (Russian radar data and eyewitness testimony) that a Ukrainian fighter was in the vicinity of Malaysia Flight 17 when it was shot down. Thus, the Ukrainian fighter very well may have played a role in the downing of MH17. This is a possibility that cannot be excluded if one is basing their judgments on the facts alone.

Then there the story of Carlos who worked at Kiev’s Air Traffic Control at Borispol but who mysteriously vanished immediately after the crash. Carlos’s twitter feeds on the day of the incident have become something of a legend on the internet, so we would like to narrow our focus to just a few of his communiques.

Carlos tweets on day of MH17 crash:

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”…

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”…

(Military?) “has taken control of ATC in Kiev”….

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”….

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”….

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”…

“The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar”…

“If Kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”….

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”…

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”…

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”….(“FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17“, Rebel’s Blog)

Shortly after posting the news on Twitter, the Military took over the tower, the SBU seized the Air traffic Control recordings, and Carlos disappeared never to be seen again. At the very least, Carlos’s postings lend support to our thesis that one or two SU 25 fighters were in the vicinity of the Boeing 777 at the time of the incident, which is to say they were in a position to shoot it down.

So why have Obama, Kerry and the entire western media excluded the SU 25s from their analysis? And why are they withholding the satellite and radar data (that everyone knows they have) of the area at the time of the crash? According to the World Socialist Web Site: “The US Air Force’s Defense Support Program utilizes satellites with infrared sensors to detect missile launches anywhere on the planet, and US radar posts in Europe would have tracked the missile as it shot through the sky.”

Indeed, the US does have the capability to track missiles launches anywhere on the planet, so where is the data to support their theory that a missile took down MH17? Where is the satellite imagery? Where is the radar data? What is it Obama doesn’t want the American people to know?

German pilot and airlines expert, Peter Haisenko, thinks that Malaysia Flight 17 was not blown up by a missile, but shot down by the type of double-barreled 30-mm guns used on Ukrainian SU-25 fighter planes. Haisenko presented his theory in an article which appeared on the Global Research website titled “Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17. “Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”. Here’s an excerpt from the article:


“The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile….” (“Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17. “Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile””, Global Research)

Haisenko notes that the munitions used on Ukrainian fighters–anti-tank incendiary and splinter-explosive shells–are capable of taking down a jetliner and that the dense pattern of metal penetrated by multiple projectiles is consistent with the firing pattern of a 30-mm gun.

Also, Michael Bociurkiw, who was one of the first international inspectors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to reach the crash site and who spent more than a week examining the ruins– appears to be convinced that MH17 was downed by machinegun fire consistent with the myriad bullet-holes visible on the fuselage. Here’s what he told on CBC World News:


“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pock-marked. It almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire that has left these unique marks that we haven’t seen anywhere else.

We’ve also been asked if we’ve seen any signs of a missile?

Well, no we haven’t. That’s the answer.”

(“Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site,” CBC News. Note: The above quote is from the video)

Now, admittedly, the observations of Haisenko and Bociurkiw could mean nothing, after all, they are just opinions. But for the sake of argument, let’s compare what they have to say to the comments made by Obama and Kerry.

Here’s Obama on the day after the crash:


“Here is what we know so far. Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine.

We also know that this is not the first time a plane has been shot down in eastern Ukraine. Over the last several weeks Russian- backed separatists have shot down a Ukrainian transport plane and a Ukrainian helicopter, and they claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Moreover, we know that these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia.

This includes arms and training. It includes heavy weapons. And it includes anti-aircraft weapons.

Now, here’s what’s happened now. This was a global tragedy. An Asian airliner was destroyed in European skies, filled with citizens from many countries. So there has to be a credible international investigation into what happened. The U.N. Security Council has endorsed this investigation, and we will hold all its members, including Russia, to their word…

Now, the United States stands ready to provide any assistance that is necessary…..

Let’s summarize Obama’s allegations:

1–MH17 was shot down in east Ukraine.

2–The separatists have shot down planes in east Ukraine before.

3–Therefore the separatists shot down MH17

Do you find that argument persuasive, dear reader? Keep in mind, Obama has never veered from his original position on the issue nor has he ever addressed the eyewitness reports or the technical data provided by Moscow. When all the media repeat the government’s version of events word-for-word, the facts don’t matter. In other words, Obama hasn’t changed his story, because he doesn’t have to. He knows the dissembling media will assist him in the cover up. Which it has.

Now let’s take a look at what Kerry had to say two days after the crash when he visited all five Sunday talk shows to blast Putin and blame the rebels for downing MH17. According to the Guardian:


”Kerry said all the evidence surrounding the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 points towards pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine…..

“We have enormous input about this that points fingers,” Kerry told CNN’s State of the Union. “It is pretty clear that this was a system from Russia, transferred to separatists. We know with confidence that the Ukrainians did not have such a system anywhere near the vicinity at that point of time.”…

Kerry said social media reports and US surveillance put the missile system in question in the vicinity of the crash before the tragedy.

“We know because we observed it by imagery that at the moment of the shootdown we detected a launch from that area,” he said. “Our trajectory shows that it went to the aircraft.” (“MH17 crash: Kerry lays out evidence of pro-Russia separatists’ responsibility“, Guardian)

Needless to say, Kerry has never provided any proof of the satellite “imagery” he referred to on the day of the interview. The administration’s case still depends on the discredited information it picked up on social media and on its own politically-motivated theory. It’s worth noting, that the administration used its shaky claims to great effect by convincing leaders of the European Union to impose more economic sanctions on Russia before any of the facts were known and without any legal process in place for Russia to defend itself. The sanctions, of course, are still in effect today even though the administrations hysterical accusations have come under increasing scrutiny.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has repeatedly called for a transparent and thorough international investigation, but Washington seems more eager to sweep the whole matter under the rug. Moscow is particularly interested in recovering the Air Traffic Control tapes which were seized by Kiev’s security services immediately following the crash. It’s imperative that these tapes be handed over to international inspectors to analyze communications between the cockpit and the tower. There’s no doubt that Kiev would hand over the recordings if Washington simply demanded that they do so. But Obama has issued no such order. Why is that?

Keep in mind, that the ATC recordings could be much more valuable than the black boxes because they record both sides of every communication on every frequency used by that facility (including frequencies used for communication with other ground facilities and/or agencies), and also on every land line in use at that facility.”

What does that mean? It means that ATC recorders also include communications between ATC operators and, lets say, government or military authorities. They would also have recorded the communications between ATC and any fighters that may have been in the vicinity of Flight 17. In other words, if MH17 was in fact shot down by a SU 25, there’s a good chance the communications would show up in the ATC tapes.

Is this why Obama hasn’t demanded that Kiev surrender the recordings, because he doesn’t really want the truth to come out? Now take a look at this out from the World Socialist Web Site:


“After a month during which Washington has failed to release evidence to support its charges against Putin, it is clear that the political offensive of the NATO governments and the media frenzy against Putin were based on lies.

If pro-Russian separatists had fired a ground-to-air missile, as the US government claims, the Air Force would have imagery in their possession confirming it beyond a shadow of a doubt…..

On August 9, the Malaysian New Straits Times published an article charging the Kiev regime with shooting down MH17. It stated that evidence from the crash site indicated that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter with a missile followed by heavy machine gun fire.

While it is too early to say conclusively how MH17 was shot down, the preponderance of the evidence points directly at the Ukrainian regime and, behind them, the American government and the European powers. They created the conditions for the destruction of MH17, backing the fascist-led coup in Kiev this February that brought the current pro-Western regime to power.”

(“Why have the media and Obama administration gone silent on MH17?“, Niles Williamson, World Socialist Web Site)

The media has played a pivotal role in this tragedy, deliberately misleading the American people on critical details related to the case in order to shape their coverage in a way that best serves the interests of the government. The MSM doesn’t care about identifying the criminals who killed 298 passengers. Their job is to demonize Putin and create a pretext for waging war on Russia. And that’s exactly what they’re doing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ex Lufthansa pilot on MH17

Link


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDvCzzrYLM0

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Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analysis of the reasons for the crash of flight MH17
by Ivan A. Andrievskii
VOLTAIRE NETWORK (first again?) | MOSCOW (RUSSIA) | 27 SEPTEMBER 2014
РУССКИЙ PORTUGUÊS DEUTSCH
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185484.html

1. The event

Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 (Amsterdam —Kuala-Lumpur) departed from Amsterdam Airport Schiphol at 10:14 UTC (14:14 Moscow Time) and was scheduled to arrive at its destination at 18:10 local time (22:10 UTC/2:10 Moscow time).

Echelon 330, including the 10 kilometers altitude that the crashed Boeing was flying at, was open for international transit flights over the territory of Ukraine. According to the data provided by the airline, contact with the airplane was lost at 14:15 GMT, approximately 50km away from the Russian-Ukrainian border. However, according to internet portal Flightradar24, the airplane stopped transmission of ADS-B over Snezhnoe (the last reported coordinates — 48.0403° northern latitude 38.7728° east longitude (G) (O)) after 13:21:28 UTC (17:21:28 Moscow time, 16:21:28 local time) at an echelon of 33 thousand feet (a bit over 10 kilometers).

Later on, the wreckage of the airplane was found burning on the ground on the territory of Ukraine. The plane crashed in the area of village Hrabove (not far from Torez). No one from the passengers and aircrew members survived.

2. Investigated questions

Under what circumstances did the airplane crash?

Who could be responsible for the crash?

3. Analyst group

A group of experts from the Russian Union of Engineers was gathered to analyze the situation. The expert group included retired AA officers, who had combat experience with surface-to-air missile systems, as well as pilots experienced in using air-to-air weapons. The problem was also discussed at the meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Affairs, where many different versions were tested and discussed once again. In the course of the analysis, the experts used materials received from open sources published in mass media. The situation was also analyzed with the help of the Su-25 aircraft flight simulator.

Concluding the conducted research work, the following analytical materials are presented.

4. General source data for the purposes of analysis

4.1. Overall aerial situation in the area around Donetsk.

The overall aerial situation in the area around Donetsk was presented at a Special briefing of the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense regarding the crash of MH-17 in the airspace of Ukraine, on 21.07.2014.

The objective control data, registered from 17.10 pm to 17.30 pm Moscow time, were presented at the briefing, during the speech of head of the Main Operations Directorate, deputy of the Russian Air Force Chief of Defence, Lieutenant General Andrey Kartapolov.

During the time period in question, there were three civil airplanes in the sky, all of which were on their scheduled flights:

• Flight from Copenhagen to Singapore at 17:17;
• Flight from Paris to Taipei at 17:24;
• Flight from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur Apart from these, Russian civil airspace control facilities recorded an altitude gain by a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft, supposedly Su-25, towards the Malaysian Boeing-777. The distance between the Su-25 and the Boeing-777 was 3-5 km.

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The aerial situation in the area of the crash of Boeing 777 (according to the data of the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense)
4.2. Meteorological conditions in the area of the crash of the Boeing 777

Record of weather conditions in Topez, Donetsk Oblast, Thursday, 17 July, 2014.

Time Weather conditions Air temperature Wind speed m/s Atmospheric pressure Relative humidity %
15:00 Overcast sky +31°C 4.0 730 29
15:00 Overcast sky +31°C 4.0 730 29
4.3. Source data from the Boeing 777 crash site

A more complete picture of the reasons for the crash of Boeing 777 can be achieved through the analysis of its wreckage. Examining the pictures of the fragments, published on the Internet, one can notice various damage on its fuselage – disruptions and breaks, holes with edges from the internal and external sides of the fuselage, which speak of a powerful external pressure against the airplane.

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A fragment from the wing of the Boeing 777
JPEG - 50.2 kb
A fragment from the fuselage of the Boeing 777
JPEG - 27.2 kb
A wing fragment from the aircraft
JPEG - 40.6 kb
A wing fragment from the aircraft
JPEG - 23.9 kb
A fuselage fragment from the aircraft
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A cabin fragment from the aircraft
Holes with inward edges catch the eye. These are round-shaped holes, which are normally grouped. Such holes could only have round shapes in the case of being cut with metallic elements, possibly with bars or aviation cannon projectiles. This brings up the question: by whom and how could such elements be delivered to the airplane and what could these elements actually be?

4.4. Characterization of the Boeing 777 aircraft as an air target

The source data for the analysis of the given situation are technical specifications of the Boeing 777 aircraft; its flight path; the altitude and speed of the flight; heading alteration compared to the initial flight plan; site of the crash; photo and video materials of the plane wreckage; description of the range and the nature of wreckage dispersion.

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Boeing 777
The most significant parameters of Boeing 777 serving for the purposes of the current analysis

Wing span, m 60.93
Length of the airplane, m 63.73
Height of the airplane, m 18.52
Wing area, m2 427.80
Maximum airspeed, km/h 965
Cruise airspeed, km/h 905
Operational range, km 8910
Service ceiling, m 13100
The Boeing 777 aircraft is not considered to be a difficult aerial target for AA systems. It is a high altitude aerial target (4000—12000 m) with a very large RCS (Radar Cross Section) – no less than 10m (the RCS for an airplane of the Su-25 type is 0.5—0.6m), it has limited maneuverability, and it has no capacity for anti-AA counteraction (active and passive jammers, false targets, etc). It can be effectively targeted both by military aircraft (interceptors or other types of aircraft acting in the same altitude and speed range) as well as by AA systems of object (S-200, S-300 type) or tactical (BUK-M1) types.

5. Technical aspects of the problem

In the present day practice of using anti-air systems engagement of aerial targets is classified according to the following types:

A. type – termination of controlled flight
B. type – restricted continuation of controlled flight without possibility of landing
C. type – restricted continuation of controlled flight with possibility of landing and a subsequent repair of the aircraft

In this case, according to the available data, there is enough ground to claim that we deal with (A) type target engagement – termination of controlled flight.

We examined all major versions which had already been published by experts from different countries. Turning to the technical aspect of the problem, it can be claimed that the Boeing 777 was destroyed by anti-air defense systems – either by using a surface-to-air missile, launched from the ground, or by another aircraft employing its missile or aircraft cannon.

Applying engineering methods and technical analysis, the experts of the Russian Union of Engineers discussed both of these versions, which represent almost the unanimous spectrum of opinions by experts and specialists.

6. Version I. Boeing 777 was shot down as a result of using a surface-to-air missile, for example BUK-М1

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AA missile 9K37M1 BUK-М1
Technical characteristics of the AA missile 9K37M1 BUK-М1

The start of mass-production 1983
Targeting range, km
—F-15 airplane types 3..32—35
Targeting altitude, km
—F-15 airplane types 0,015..22
Number of simultaneously engaged targets 18
Single shot kill probability SAM
• Of a fighter 0,8..0,95
• Of a helicopter 0,3..0,6
• Of a cruiser 0,4..0,6
Maximum velocity of engaged targets, m/s 800
6.1. Evidence supporting the first version

6.1.1. The probability for the effective shooting down of an aerial target of the Boeing 777 type by an AA missile 9K37M1 BUK-М1 is high, as the plane was moving at a 10100 echelon, at the speed of 900 km/h. Such parameters could make it an aerial target for BUK-M1. The probability for successfully hitting such a target by a BUK-M1 AA system is 0.8-0.95, as a consequence, it is technically possible to hit an air target of this type.

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A group of Ukrainian AA missile systems
The Ukrainian troops group around the site of the crash site included 3—4 systems of the BUK-M1 type. This information was published by the Russian Ministry of Defense. Head of the main Operation Directorate of General Stuff, Lieutenant General Andrey Kartapolov, emphasized the fact that the Russian military possesses photos of separate Ukrainian troop locations, made from space, including photos of Ukrainian army divisions in the southeast of Ukraine, particularly, BUK systems 8 km from Lugansk. In the morning following the crash of the Malaysian airliner, Russian control facilities discovered a BUK-M1 AA missile system around the Zaroshenskoe village. On that same day that system was redeployed towards the Donetsk area - towards the area where the militia troops were positioned. We consider these data to be objective and reliable.

6.1.2. Also, the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense stated that Russian military officers recorded the operation of a radar of a Ukrainian BUK-M1 AA missile system on the day of the crash of the Malaysian liner Boeing 777. The target location and guidance system Kupol 9С18 is a three-axis coherent-impulse target locator performing the transmission of information about the aerial environment to the command observation post of the 9С470 AA missile system 9K37 BUK. The 9С18 radar is capable of detecting and identifying aerial targets at a distance of 110-160km, with an identification range for low-altitude targets (under 30m) of up to 45km. Such a radar could be used for the detection and tracking of a Boeing 777.

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Radar 9С18М1 «Kupol»
Radar 9С18М1 Kupol

Coverage area:
In azimuth, degrees 360
In elevation angle, degree 0-40
Instrumented range, km 10-160
Resolving power: In range, м 400
In azimuth, degrees 3-4,5
In elevation angle, degrees 3-4,5
Continuous operation time, h 48
The set up and clotting time, min. 5
Maximum velocity, km /h 65

6.1.3. However, experts of the Russian Union of Engineers find it important to note that the launch of a BUK-M1 missile is accompanied by the following significant audio-visual factors:

• Significant noise effect, both at missile launch time and during its flight, especially at altitudes between 100 and 3000m.
• A powerful flash at the launch site (Photo 10).
• A condensation trail, formed by the missile as a result of missile fuel burning on its flight trajectory (Photo 11).
• A flash and a characteristic picture in midair at the point of convergence of the missile with the target. (Photo 12).

6.1.4. The version that a BUK-M1 AA missile was used in this incident, according to the experts, has a number of vulnerable aspects, making it questionable:

а) Up to now no one has provided reliable evidence of the a “surface-to-air” missile launch, which is known to be accompanied by significant noise and visual effects. Its condensation trail goes into the clouds and stays in the air for up to 10 minutes. The sound wave produced during the launch of the missile can be heard within a radius of 7-10 km around the launch site.

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Launch of a BUK-M1 AA missile
b) The flight of a surface-to-air missile is accompanied by a very loud noise. Its flight can be visually traced due to the trail formed as a result of the missile fuel burning (condensation trail).

In this case, there is no record of a trail in the form of a dense white condensation from the burning of fuel, as well as of a vapor path, which appears and stays for a few minutes after the launch and is well visible within a radius of no less than 10km from the launch site.

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BUK-M1 AA missile during flight
c) The detonation of the warhead has a characteristic configuration, which can be seen from the ground under clear weather conditions.

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Air target shot down by a BUK-M1 AA missile
The surface-to-air missile 9М38 is equipped with a dual-mode solid-fuel engine (general operation time about 15 seconds).

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AA missile 9М38 BUK-M1
Surface-to-air missile 9М38

Missile length 5,5 m
Diameter 400 mm
Flaps width 860 mm
Missile weight 685 kg
Warhead weight 70 kg
The surface-to-air missile, with 40-70kg of warhead payload, explodes not inside of the target, but in its proximity, at a distance of 50-100 meters.

The warhead detonation causes an aerial shockwave, which results in a high-speed fragment distribution. The fragments are capable of breaking an airplane fuselage, but taking into account the dimensions of a Boeing 777 (63.7m length, with a large wingspan of over 60 m), they still cannot destroy the airplane, causing its fragmentation into several smaller parts, as is the case with aircraft that are 7-10 times smaller in size. When hitting a Boeing 777 such fragments may cause disruptions of fuel flow and lead to the leakage of fuel over the fuselage and wings and its subsequent ignition leading to a fire.

d) Similarly, in the case that the hydraulic system had been damaged, the Boeing-777 would have lost control, or control would have become extremely difficult (shooting down type «В»). If an aircraft as big as the Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 had been hit by a surface-to-air missile, the crew might have been able to warn flight services of the situation created onboard the aircraft. However, according to the information presented by mass media, nothing of the kind has been registered in the decoded data of the aircraft recorders.

e) The crash of the airplane took place during daytime, in a highly populated area, where there were not only numerous military observers monitoring the air environment, but also many reporters equipped with video cameras, as well as local residents, having digital cameras and cellphones with cameras. It is also worth noting that the launch of a BUK-M1 surface-to-air missile requires the participation of at least a combat crew, which makes a stealthy launch rather difficult.

It would be logical to assume that pictures and video recordings depicting the situation from various angles and displaying several stages of the flight of the missile, would have instantly appeared on the internet (the numerous amateur video recordings of the meteor impact near Chelyabinsk are a good example of that). However, local residents recorded only the fact of an explosion in the air and the falling of body fragments near their houses.

f) During the crash of the Boeing-777 airplane, an American satellite was overflying the territory of Ukraine. Because of this, Russian military officers believe that the American side should publish satellite images made at the moment of its crash, if Washington possesses any such images.

Conclusions from the first version:

The data and considerations above pose very significant challenges to the version according to which the Malaysian Boeing 777 airliner was shot down by a BUK-M1 surface-to-air missile system.

7. Version II. Boeing 777 was shot down as a result of another aircraft (one or multiple) using its missile and/or aircraft cannon equipment.

7.1. Evidence in favor of this version:

7.1.1. In the airspace around the area where the Boeing has crashed, numerous witnesses claim to have seen a military aircraft (some people say there were two), supposedly an air superiority fighter, as they derived from its characteristic features and speed (the flight altitude of an air superiority fighter is 5000-7000m, and the velocity is around 950km/h or more).

They also heard the sound of an airplane in the clouds. Presumably, these could have been airplanes of MiG-29 or Su-25 type.

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MiG-29
MiG-29

Maximum velocity –high altitude \on the deck 2450 km/h (М=2,3)\1300 km/h
Maximum rate of climb, m/s 330
Acceleration time from 600 to 1100 km/h, from1100 to1300 km/h, s 13,5\8,7
Takeoff airspeed, km/h 220
Service ceiling, m 18000
Operational range (without a drop tank\with one drop tank tank\with 3 drop tanks), km 1500\2100\2900
Maximum turning rate, °/s 23,5
Operational acceleration, g units +9
MiG-29 armament includes a single-barrel cannon GSh-301 (30 mm, 150 rounds of ammunition, firing rate of 1500 shots/minute) in the left wing root extension. For engaging air targets 6 short range R-60М or short range R-73 guided missiles with IR Seekers can be installed on the 6 below-wing stations of the MiG-29; 4 medium range guided missiles R-27RE with radar location or with R-27TE IR navigation system Р-77.

Also, according to the data of the Ministry of Defense, on 17 July, Russian air control means registered altitude gain by an airplane of Ukrainian Air Forces, presumably, a Su-25, moving towards the Malaysian Boeing 777. The distance between the two airplanes did not exceed 3-4 km.

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Su-25
Armament: One 30-mm 2-barrelled autocannon GSh-30-2 in the lower forebody with 250 rounds of ammunition. GM: air-to-air R-3 (АА-2) or R-60 (АА-8)air-to-surface Kh-25ML, Kh-29L or S-25L.Containers SPPU-22 with a 2-barrel 23-mm utocannon GSh-23L with 260 ammunition rounds.

Su-25

Wing span, m 14.36
Weight, kg
Maximum takeoff weight 17600
Maximum airspeed, km/h
At cruise altitude 975
High altitude М=0.82
Operation range, km 1850
Mission radius, km
High altitude 1250
At cruise altitude 750
Service ceiling, m 7000—10000
It should be noted that Su-25 specifications allow it to gain an altitude of 10.000m and above for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes air-to-air missiles R-60, which are capable of engaging and hitting targets at a distance of 10km, of which 8km is a guaranteed range. Moreover, it does not even need to come close to the target, but only to reduce the distance down to the required engagement range.

7.1.2. The Russian Federation Ministry of Defense stated that Russian military officers fixed the operation of a Kupol radar, belonging to an Ukrainian AA missile BUK-M1 battery, on the day of the crash of the Malaysian liner Boeing 777.

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Statistics of Ukrainian radar activity in the area of the Malaysian Boeing 777 crash
Operation of this radar can indirectly point to a military deployment of aircraft, as radars are regularly used for airspace reconnaissance and for transferring information to aircraft direction centers, i.e. they provide source data for flight officers’ work in the course of an interceptor’s or and interceptor group flight during “combat air patrol” missions or during ambush activities. Usually, attacks are performed according to target guidance from the ground, both head-on and in pursuit.

7.1.3. On radars, the Su-25 is displayed in the same way as the MiG-29, as their radar cross sections are similar. The operational service ceiling of the MiG-29 is 18013m, so the altitude at which the Malaysian airliner was moving, 10100m, could easily be reached by a MiG-29. The MiG-29 has two high thrust engines, allowing it to attain a speed of 2000km/h.

7.1.4. The data on meteorological conditions can also count in favor of the version that the Boeing 777 was attacked by another aircraft. Meteorological conditions from 15:00 to 18:00, 17.07.2014 in and around the city of Donetsk, were marked by rain and an overcast sky. Flight paths of passenger airplanes lie above the lower border of high-echelon clouds. At this altitude, only cirrus cloud can form. Those are separate white-colored fibrous clouds, which are thin and transparent, and rarely contain dense or flaky formations. They are arranged in the form of bundles and stripes, passing all along the sky and meeting at the horizon. They show perfectly well through the sky. The average height of the lower border is 7-10km, while the width can be from hundred meters up to several kilometers.

An attack by a fighter aircraft with a rapid ascent, from below the cloud layer could be quite unexpected for the crew of the Boeing 777. Such an attack could not have been discovered visually from the earth either due to the dense layer of clouds in the medium and lower cloud echelons.

Thus, it can be claimed with a certain degree of certainty, that the Boeing 777, conducting a horizontal flight at the altitude of 10000m, could actually be in the lethal range of aircraft cannon or missile armament of a fighter aircraft, be it MiG-29 or Su-25.

7.1.5. Thus the logical question arises: which particular weapon was the cause of the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777?

Missile armament

In terms of missile armament, MiG-29 as well as Su-25 can carry short range guided missiles R-60M

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R-60M missiles on the external sling of the airplane
Р-60М

Length, m 2,14
Diameter, m 0,12
Wingspan, m 0,39
Weight, kg 45
Warhead weight, kg 3,5
Speed 2,5M
Target kill altitude range 0,03...20
Maximum launch range, Front/Rear hemisphere 10/8 km
Minimal launch range Rear hemisphere, km 0,3 - 0,25
MiG-29 is equipped with a 30mm GSh-301 cannon, with a fire rate of 1500 rounds per minute. The cannon is armed with 150 rounds, which contain a tungsten alloy. The effective range of firing at air targets is 200-800m, and 1200-1800m for ground targets. Such type of rounds exit cleanly, leaving holes of a perfectly circular shape. They do not explode inside the cabin, are not incendiary-based, but are able to kill the crew and cause the destruction of the cabin, which is typical for the entrance and exit holes configuration: entry holes – with edges bent inwards, exit holes - on the opposite wall - with edges bent outwards.

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Aircraft Cannon GSh-301
The Su-25 is equipped with a GSh-2-30 aircraft cannon.

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Aircraft cannon GSh-2-30
GSh-2-30 (GSH-2-30K)

Delivery vehicles Су-25, Су-39, (Ми-24П)
Weight
Shot weight 390 г
Ammunition weight 832 г
Cannon weight 105 (126) кг
Specifications
Caliber 30 мм
Number of barrels 2
Allotment of rounds 250 (750) патронов
Rate of fire (300—2600) выст/мин
Effective range for air targets 200—800 м.
Apart from that, the Su-25 can carry SPPU-22 containers with the 2-barrelled 23-mm cannon GSh-23L.

During combat usage, both types of cannon ammunition can cause fuselage damage similar to that visible on the wreckage of the Boeing 777.

Conclusions for the second version:

Thus, based on the opinion of the analysts of the Russian Union of Engineers, a complex shooting down of the Boeing 777 airplane has taken place, both by a short-range air-to-air guided missile and a 30-mm aircraft cannon or a SPPU-22 container with the 2-barreled Gsh23-L cannon. Furthermore, a laser rangefinder or a laser aiming device could have been used when firing the target, which allowed to significantly increase the shooting accuracy. This conclusion can be made from the nature of damage and the fragment distribution: there are both circular holes, which are usually caused by cannon fire, and explosive damage, which indicates a missile with arrow-type submunition.

8. Wreckage analysis

If we examine the first version of the crash, the location of holes in the wreckage surfaces and the fuselage clearly shows that there is no typical picture of a plane being affected by the missile system BUK-M1 submunition, which would otherwise leave highly remarkable and typical evidence of damage. In this case we see that there is no such evidence on the wreckage fragments.

According to experts, in the case of a BUK-M1 AA missile system hit, there should have been traces of numerous specific holes caused by the submunition elements from the missile warhead. However, there is no such evidence present in the photos taken at the crash site.

As to the possibility of such damage being inflicted by the usage of short range “air-to-air” missiles, it should be noted that the R-60 (Su-27) and R-73 (MiG-29) missiles are short range low-duty missiles with infrared homing. Their lethal range only 3-5m, with a guaranteed kill only in case of a direct hit. The warhead of the prior weighs 3.5kg, while the latter carries a 5kg warhead. They have thinly chopped tungsten wire in their warheads. These are rather low-power missiles, meant exclusively for small-sized targets. Such missiles follow thermal wake and are mainly meant to destroy the engine of the targeted aircraft.

It would be more logical to assume that the damage presented in Photo 19 is more indicative for an aircraft cannon round of GSh or SPPU type.

Boeing777 wing damage is not indicative for submunition elements of a BUK-M1 AA missile system.

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Boeing 777 wing surface damage
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Boeing 777 cabin damage
The picture of entry and exit holes in the cockpit area (control cabin) of the Boeing 777 fully corresponds to the assumption that it was caused by being shot through by approximately 20-30mm rounds from a fighter cannon. This supports the second version of the crash. The same can be said about the nature of fragment distribution over the fuselage of the plane. From the left side the edges of fragments of the control cabin fuselage are rolled up from inside to outside, which points at significant damage inside the cabin as a result of dynamic pressure of missiles over its right side.

There are characteristic entrance holes and several exit holes visible on the fuselage. The edges of the holes are bent inwards, they are much smaller and are round-shaped. Exit holes are less precisely shaped, and their edges are bent outwards. Additionally, it is visible that the exit holes pierced the aluminum covering twice and bent it outwards. I.e., the striking elements (judging by the impact type, aircraft missile rounds) broke through the cockpit. Open rivets were also bent outwards.

Boeing 777 fragment Fuselage damage is clearly visible – break through holes, caused by a 20- to 30-mm cannon.

Distinctive inward bends of the fuselage indicate a cannon round impact.

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Boeing 777 cover damage nature
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Boeing 777 fuselage damage nature
Boeing777 fragment.

Rivets blown out.

Destruction of the fuselage with edges bent outwards due to an internal dynamic impact, either caused by an explosion inside the plane, or a sudden and rapid change of internal pressure at high altitude.

The general typology of the holes and their location lead us to the conclusion that, most probably, the Boeing 777 was attacked by an aircraft cannon GSh-2-30, or an SPPU-22 container with a two-barreled 23mm cannon GSh-23L. The target zone was the control cabin, and the rounds, breaking through the cockpit, affected the wing surface as well. (see Photo. 20).

Both types of cannon rounds during combat usage cause damage to aerial targets similar to that which can be seen on the fragments of the Boeing 777.

The nature of the holes on the fragments of the plane fuselage, present in the currently available information sources, allows claiming that the airplane was shot down by aircraft cannon and missile armament of a combat aircraft.

9. Re-enactment of the event

Based on the considerations stated above, the following conclusions can be made:

9.1. Regarding to the circumstances of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 crash.

Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 was conducting the flight Amsterdam-Kuala-Lumpur, on 17.07.2014, according to the tunnel set by the air traffic controllers. It is most probable that manual steering was offline and the airplane was flying in autopilot mode, performing horizontal flight following the route which was laid out on the ground and adjusted by Ukrainian air traffic controllers.

At 17.17–17.20 the Boeing 777 was in Ukrainian airspace, in Donetsk area, at the altitude of 10100m. An unidentified fighter aircraft (presumably Su-25 or MiG-29), which was previously at a lower echelon, on a head-on course in a layer of clouds, ascended rapidly, unexpectedly emerging in front of the passenger plane out of the clouds and opened fire at the control cabin (cockpit), using 30mm or smaller cannon armament. The targeting could have been performed not only by the pilot of a fighter aircraft in “free hunt” conditions (using the aircraft radar), but also by a navigation officer on the ground, using the airspace data received from ground-based radars.

The cockpit of the airliner was damaged in the result of numerous rounds hitting the aircraft fuselage. The control cabin was depressurized, which caused the instant death of the crew, due to mechanical influences and decompression. The attack was quite unexpected and lasted only a fraction of a second. Due to the surprise situation, the crew was unable to give any alarm signals intended for such situations, as the flight was following its scheduled route and the attack was unexpected for everyone.

As neither the engines, nor the hydraulic system, nor other devices crucial to the continuation of the flight, were set out of operation, the Boeing 777 continued its horizontal flight in autopilot mode (which is a standard situation), perhaps gradually losing altitude.

After that, the pilot of the unidentified fighter aircraft maneuvered and repositioned himself into the rear hemisphere of the Boeing 777. He entered an engagement course, performed the targeting using onboard target tracking equipment, and launched a R-60 or R-73 air-to-air missile (one or multiple).

As a result of the missile impact, the entire cabin was depressurized, the flight control system was incapacitated, the autopilot was switched off, the plane ceased its horizontal flight and went into a tail-spin. The created g-forces caused a mechanical disruption of the airframe at high altitude.

As indicated by the available flight recorder data, the plane fell apart in the air, but this is possible mainly in the case of vertical falling from a 10000m altitude, which can typically happen only in a case of exceeding the maximum allowed g-force. As a rule, such a tail-spin can be explained by the inability of the crew to control the airplane as a result of some emergency case in the cabin and subsequent instant depressurization of the cockpit and passenger compartment. The destruction of the airplane took place at a high altitude, which explains the fact that the wreckage of the plane was dissimilated over a territory over 15 km².

9.2. Regarding the party responsible for the death of 283 passengers and 15 crew members.

On 17.07.2014 the armed forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic possessed neither appropriate fighter aircraft capable of engaging an air target similar to the Boeing 777, nor an airfield network, nor radar detection devices, targeting and guidance equipment.

Fighter aircraft of the Russian Federation Armed Forces did not violate the airspace of Ukraine, which is confirmed by both the Ukrainian side and by third parties performing space-based reconnaissance over the territory of Ukraine and its airspace.

To ascertain the truth, it is required to objectively and impartially investigate all the circumstances of the Malaysian Boeing 777 crash, to question thousands of residents in the area who might have seen anything. Naturally, the surveys must be conducted by highly experienced specialists. Asking relevant questions is both a strict science and a sophisticated art of coming close to the truth. Crucial information is hidden in the wreckage and fragments of the crashed airplane, but this very information can easily be eliminated, distorted and concealed. It should not be forgotten that there are always people involved who seek to conceal each and every real fact. An indirect confirmation of this is the fact that on August 8th Ukraine, The Netherlands, Belgium and Australia signed an agreement allowing the disclosure of information regarding the investigation of the crash only at the consent of all parties involved.

“The investigation proceeds with inspections and other investigatory activities – declared the Speaker of Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office, Yuri Boychenko, - their results will be announced upon the end of the investigation and at the consent of all the parties, who have signed the relevant agreement”.

Delays and deviation from carrying out a comprehensive objective investigation with the participation of reputable international organizations, raise doubts that the involved parties will actually present the real circumstances of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 crash.

Ivan A. Andrievskii
Source
Оdnako (Russia)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corpse had oxygen mask on
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/mh17-victim-found-had-oxygen-mask- on/ar-BB8j9MM

Quote:
AMSTERDAM--One of the passengers killed in the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine was wearing an oxygen mask, the Dutch minister of foreign affairs said, which could indicate that not all passengers died instantly when the plane was hit.

Frans Timmermans said in an interview on Dutch television late Wednesday that one of the victims of the plane crash was found wearing an oxygen mask. “So that person had the time to do that,” he said.

In a statement to the next of kin by the Dutch public prosecutor that was later posted on the website of public broadcaster NOS, the mask was checked for fingerprints, saliva and DNA, but it was unclear how the mask got around the neck of the victim, it said

Last month, officials leading the criminal investigation into the crash of MH17 said the plane was most likely shot down by a missile, but stopped short of saying who fired it.

The Netherlands had the highest death toll in the July 17 disaster that took the lives of 298 people, 196 of whom where Dutch. So far, 262 victims have been identified.

Write to Robin van Daalen at Robin.VanDaalen@wsj.com

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooooops!
Certainly suggests the pilot had a little time to deploy oxygen after depressurisation, seems to go along with the theory he was taking evasive action. Eyewitnesses said aircraft banked and turned left (North) before mid air explosion.


Dutch foreign minister accidently reveals MH17 passenger had oxygen mask on

When talk show host Jeroen Pauw interviewed Timmermans on Wednesday night, he provoked the minister with accusations that he had dramatized the victims' last moments as a preliminary investigation report suggests that the Boeing 777's destruction was so swift that those on board were unlikely to have known anything was amiss.
The last thing I want to do is worsen their pain in any way. I shouldn't have said what I said.
- Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans on his disclosure that one of the MH-17 crash victims was found wearing an oxygen mask

"They did not see the rocket coming, but you know someone was found with an oxygen mask on his mouth?” Timmermans replied, according to the NL Times translation of his comments. "He thus had the time to do that. We cannot rule it out."
Dutch investigators reported a month ago that MH-17 was destroyed by "high-energy objects from outside the aircraft" as it flew at an altitude of 33,000 feet, consistent with being struck by a missile. Nothing on the flight data or cockpit voice recorders indicated the crew or passengers took any action in response to the fatal impact.
Oxygen masks deploy automatically and drop down to passengers. Not hard to imagine one getting wrapped around someone's head with all the violent motions of the plane. Sounds like an isolated incident, particularly with no evidence the pilots knew. I find the worst part about this is no...
None of the other victims whose remains have been examined by Dutch forensics workers were wearing masks, Wim de Bruin, a spokesman for the Dutch National Prosecutor's Office, told reporters in The Hague on Thursday.
The mask found around the neck of the unnamed passenger, one of 88 Australian citizens and residents on board, was tested for fingerprints, saliva and DNA but produced no forensic evidence, De Bruin said. "So it is not known how or when that mask got around the neck of the victim," he said.
The discovery of the mask and the implications it raised about the passengers' final moments were conveyed to the Australian's family before Timmermans' interview on Wednesday night, the prosecutor's office said. But information was sent out to other family members of the MH-17 victims only on Thursday morning.
Timmermans issued a statement Thursday saying he regretted making the comment.
"The next of kin have my profound sympathy. The last thing I want to do is worsen their pain in any way. I shouldn’t have said what I said," Timmermans said in a statement posted on the Foreign Ministry website.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-malaysia-jet-oxygen- mask-20141009-story.html

MH-17 False Flag Exposed After Revelation Passenger Was Wearing Oxygen Mask
Tyler Durden's pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on 10/09/2014 17:16 When exactly a month ago the supposedly objective, impartial Netherlands released its full, official report of the MH-17 crash over Ukraine, presumably based on black box data, the air traffic control records, and other "authentic, verified" information, there were precisely zero mentions of "oxygen", "mask" or "oxygen mask."
Which is odd, because in what should become the biggest Freudian slip scandal in false-flag history, certainly since the Gulf of Tonkin, yesterday Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans accidentally revealed for the very first time ever, that one of the Australian passengers aboard the doomed airplane "appears to have donned an oxygen mask before the fatal crash, suggesting some on board might have been aware of their impending deaths, a Dutch official disclosed."
Needless to say, this makes a complete mockery out of the lie that the plane had exploded upon impact with the "Russian" missile, and is why there was no trace of any impact on the flight's black box recorder. Whether or not it also means that the alternative theory that a Ukraine jet had purposefully downed the Malaysian aircraft to serve as a pretext to implicate Russia, is unclear. But it also means that yet another conspiracy theory becomes fact: namely that whoever were the western powers who doctored and manipulated the "official" crash report of MH-17 to implicate Putin, not only lied but fabricated evidence.
Immediately upon realization just how serious the implications of this slip are, the damage control started, but it was too late. From the LA Times:
Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans apologized on Thursday for making the revelation on a television talk show the previous night, before the families of the 298 victims of the disaster had been notified of the disturbing discovery.
Timmermans gave an emotional speech at the United Nations four days after the crash in which he imagined the terrified passengers exchanging glances "one final time, in an unarticulated goodbye."
When talk show host Jeroen Pauw interviewed Timmermans on Wednesday night, he provoked the minister with accusations that he had dramatized the victims' last moments as a preliminary investigation report suggests that the Boeing 777's destruction was so swift that those on board were unlikely to have known anything was amiss.
"They did not see the rocket coming, but you know someone was found with an oxygen mask on his mouth?” Timmermans replied, according to the NL Times translation of his comments. "He thus had the time to do that. We cannot rule it out."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/mh-17-false-flag-exposed-afte r-revelation-passenger-was-wearing-oxygen-mask

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why only one passenger?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DUTCH INVESTIGATORS SAY SEPARATISTS DID "GREAT JOB"

Emergency Ministry officials loaded the recovered items on a small cargo truck to be transported from the fields near the village of Hrabove and returned to the victims' families.

Armed pro-Russian rebels stood around the site while workers from the European rights and security watchdog OSCE monitored the recovery process.

The Dutch forensics teams in the Netherlands have identified 272 victims of the crash but additional remains are still believed to be in the area.

Aalbersberg said local emergency services had done a good job recovering passengers' bodies in the days after the crash, despite initial reports of looting.

"These emergency services were different from the large group of people who were there in the first days after the crash. These people did a great job (collecting bodies), also by our standards."

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Friday he was furious that Dutch investigators had been unable to finish work in the area because of fighting between the separatists and government forces.

Separatists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic fighting to split east Ukraine from Kiev on Monday said 36 civilians, including one child, were killed in shelling of the territory under their control last week. More than 3,500 people have been killed in the conflict.

The aircraft, which was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, is widely believed to have been hit by a surface-to-air missile fired from separatist-held territory. Kiev blames the incident on the rebels and accuses Moscow of arming them. The rebels and Moscow deny the accusations.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKCN0I20ZO20141013?irpc =932

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MH-17: The Untold Story

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoIw3jBV4g
Published on 22 Oct 2014
Three months after Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was violently brought down from the skies over Ukraine, there are still no definitive answers to what caused the tragedy. Civil conflict in the area prevented international experts from conducting a full and thorough investigation. The wreckage should have been collected and scrupulously re-assembled to identify all the damage, but this standard investigative procedure was never carried out. Until that’s done, evidence can only be gleaned from pictures of the debris, the flight recorders or black boxes and eye-witnesses’ testimonies. This may be enough to help build a picture of what really happened to the aircraft, whether a rocket fired from the ground or gunfire from a military jet.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia says MH17 was shot down by plane missiles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russ ia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html
State television claims to have received the 'sensational pictures' showing the Boeing was shot down by cannon fire over Ukraine


Satellite images which suggest MH17, top, was shot down by a Ukrainian warplane, inset Photo: east2west news/Channel One

By Tom Parfitt - 9:49PM GMT 14 Nov 2014

Russian state television has produced a "satellite image" that allegedly showed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 being shot down by a fighter jet yesterday, in what appeared to be a crude fake deliberately released on the eve of the G20 economic summit.

Channel One presented the image, said to have been taken moments before the passenger jet crashed in eastern Ukraine, as a smoking gun that confirmed how MH17 had been downed, killing all 298 people on board on July 17.

"It's well know that at the [G20] summit in Brisbane, the Australian prime minister [Tony] Abbott has threatened to confront our president about the Malaysian Boeing," said the presenter, Mikhail Leontyev, who is one of Vladimir Putin's chief propaganda mouthpieces. "Let's try to make his task a little easier."

A Russian engineer investigating the crash told the programme he had received the "sensational picture" on November 12. The channel showed an email in English from a "George Bilt", supposedly a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and aviation expert, who claimed the Boeing was shot down by cannon fire and missiles from a plane.

Moscow has suggested in the past that a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet was tracking the passenger liner.

Russian and international bloggers quickly pointed to what they said were a mass of discrepancies with the supposed satellite image, including the fact the markings on the side of the Boeing were in the wrong place for a Malaysia Airlines jet, the clouds in the picture were identical to those in a Google Earth image from 2012, and the image was not consistent with the flight path of the jet.

An investigation by the Dutch Safety Board published in September found the jet was pierced from the outside by a large numbers of "high-energy objects". That finding was consistent with the main theory about the crash: that the plane was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher located on territory controlled by pro-Russian rebels. Such missiles explode next to a target, destroying it in a hail of shrapnel rather than blowing it up.

The apparent Kremlin demarche came as Ukraine's prime minister said that creating an army strong enough to withstand Russian belligerence was the country's top priority.

"Building an army which is capable of stopping aggression from Russia, is the number one task," Arseny Yatsenyuk said during a televised briefing with reporters in Kiev yesterday. His remarks were broadcast as a five-year-old girl was reported killed in shelling in the east of the country.


A picture claiming to show MH17 shortly before contact was lost (Channel One)

Ukraine's government and western countries accuse Moscow of sending troops and tanks into the Donbas region to support thousands of rebels who are fighting to enlarge two breakaway "people's republics".

Ukraine's military reported on Friday that "movement and concentration of Russian troops and militants' groups is being continuously observed" in the conflict zone.

Earlier last week, Moscow denied that a single Russian serviceman had entered Ukraine across their mutual border, despite Nato reports of columns of tanks and other hardware mounting incursions.

That denial has looked increasing frayed. Last weekend, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe reported long columns of military vehicles, some towing howitzers, travelling through rebel-held territory. On Thursday it said it had seen a van apparently carrying dead Russian combatants out of Ukraine into Russia, as well as more than 600 people in military uniform passing through one checkpoint in a week, "mostly into Ukraine".

Moscow responded on Friday by accusing the OSCE of only reporting on rebel troop movements while ignoring a buildup of Ukrainian forces in the region.

"We get the impression that [the OSCE'S] efforts are directed at helping and supporting only one side in the conflict, the official authorities in Kiev," the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement.

The OSCE insists that it is impartial. Meanwhile, Ukraine has said that is redeploying troops in the area and bracing itself for a Russian-backed rebel offensive that could target the key city of Mariupol on the coast of the Sea of Azov.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A static image is not convincing...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scienceplease 2 wrote:
A static image is not convincing...

Neither, these days is a moving image.

The Torygraph article is couched in appropriately cautious language - unlike the ridiculously biased pronouncements of Cameron about everybody knowing rebels shot the plane down, Russian tanks in Eastern Ukraine etc.

Perhaps we'll see contradictory evidence when the US satellite images are released?
Wonder if there are satellite images of MH370 too?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:

Wonder if there are satellite images of MH370 too?


There should be. Space command has keyhole satellites all over the planet - especially looking down at isolated areas around nuclear bases such as Deigo Garcia.

Look at some of the logos from Space Command

http://animalnewyork.com/2013/awesome-terrifying-logos-americas-spy-sa tellite-missions/

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Russia says MH17 was shot down by plane missiles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russ ia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html
State television claims to have received the 'sensational pictures' showing the Boeing was shot down by cannon fire over Ukraine


Satellite images which suggest MH17, top, was shot down by a Ukrainian warplane, inset Photo: east2west news/Channel One

By Tom Parfitt - 9:49PM GMT 14 Nov 2014

Russian state television has produced a "satellite image" that allegedly showed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 being shot down by a fighter jet yesterday, in what appeared to be a crude fake deliberately released on the eve of the G20 economic summit.

Channel One presented the image, said to have been taken moments before the passenger jet crashed in eastern Ukraine, as a smoking gun that confirmed how MH17 had been downed, killing all 298 people on board on July 17.

"It's well know that at the [G20] summit in Brisbane, the Australian prime minister [Tony] Abbott has threatened to confront our president about the Malaysian Boeing," said the presenter, Mikhail Leontyev, who is one of Vladimir Putin's chief propaganda mouthpieces. "Let's try to make his task a little easier."

A Russian engineer investigating the crash told the programme he had received the "sensational picture" on November 12. The channel showed an email in English from a "George Bilt", supposedly a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and aviation expert, who claimed the Boeing was shot down by cannon fire and missiles from a plane.

Moscow has suggested in the past that a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet was tracking the passenger liner.

Russian and international bloggers quickly pointed to what they said were a mass of discrepancies with the supposed satellite image, including the fact the markings on the side of the Boeing were in the wrong place for a Malaysia Airlines jet, the clouds in the picture were identical to those in a Google Earth image from 2012, and the image was not consistent with the flight path of the jet.

An investigation by the Dutch Safety Board published in September found the jet was pierced from the outside by a large numbers of "high-energy objects". That finding was consistent with the main theory about the crash: that the plane was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher located on territory controlled by pro-Russian rebels. Such missiles explode next to a target, destroying it in a hail of shrapnel rather than blowing it up.

The apparent Kremlin demarche came as Ukraine's prime minister said that creating an army strong enough to withstand Russian belligerence was the country's top priority.

"Building an army which is capable of stopping aggression from Russia, is the number one task," Arseny Yatsenyuk said during a televised briefing with reporters in Kiev yesterday. His remarks were broadcast as a five-year-old girl was reported killed in shelling in the east of the country.


A picture claiming to show MH17 shortly before contact was lost (Channel One)

Ukraine's government and western countries accuse Moscow of sending troops and tanks into the Donbas region to support thousands of rebels who are fighting to enlarge two breakaway "people's republics".

Ukraine's military reported on Friday that "movement and concentration of Russian troops and militants' groups is being continuously observed" in the conflict zone.

Earlier last week, Moscow denied that a single Russian serviceman had entered Ukraine across their mutual border, despite Nato reports of columns of tanks and other hardware mounting incursions.

That denial has looked increasing frayed. Last weekend, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe reported long columns of military vehicles, some towing howitzers, travelling through rebel-held territory. On Thursday it said it had seen a van apparently carrying dead Russian combatants out of Ukraine into Russia, as well as more than 600 people in military uniform passing through one checkpoint in a week, "mostly into Ukraine".

Moscow responded on Friday by accusing the OSCE of only reporting on rebel troop movements while ignoring a buildup of Ukrainian forces in the region.

"We get the impression that [the OSCE'S] efforts are directed at helping and supporting only one side in the conflict, the official authorities in Kiev," the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement.

The OSCE insists that it is impartial. Meanwhile, Ukraine has said that is redeploying troops in the area and bracing itself for a Russian-backed rebel offensive that could target the key city of Mariupol on the coast of the Sea of Azov.


Unfortunately, the Telegraph article has no 'Comments' section. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 'satellite picture' is a crude fake; but not by Russia. They could hardly be so stupid as to fake a picture which could be easily refuted as a fake; for one thing, this so-called 'George Bilt' could very easily be demonstrated to be fictitious, as it would not take much searching for MIT to know that no one by that name ever graduated, and that no known person by that name has any record of any sort, never mind being an 'aviation expert'. The Russians have not 'suggested' in the past that the Boeing was being tracked by a Su-25, they have categorically stated it.
And as for the BUK baloney, Buk's leave a vapour trail for up to ten minutes, extremely clear for anyone to see, yet no one ever mentioned seeing one, even though a number of people said they saw the Boeing breaking up. There have been no pictures of this phantom 'vapour trail' that would have been present had a BUK been launched.
And it wasn't Russia that made a deal to only publish evidence if ALL parties agreed; they were not even asked to participate in the investigation; the four countries that WERE asked, Holland, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine, were all 'pro-West', hardly a suitable gang for a balanced and unbiased investigation.
Not only was Russia not invited to assist in the investigation; to my knowledge, neither was Malaysia, whose plane it was that got shot down.
Any satellite picture, from whatever source, that surfaces this late in the day, from whatever source, would be very hard to take seriously.

All the evidence needed was there in the wreckage; any forensic investigation, unless it was done by the 'Keystone Kops', would have been able to show if most of the holes in the front of the fuselage were caused by 30 calibre bullets or cannon fire, which a German guy has said was plainly the case (I don't know if he was a pilot, engineer or whatever, but he is shown somewhere on this Forum thread.

'An investigation by the Dutch Safety Board published in September found the jet was pierced from the outside by a large numbers (sic) of "high energy objects". That theory was consistent with the main theory about the crash: that the plane was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher located on territory controlled by pro-Russian rebels.'.. (Telegraph). Hmmm, oddly enough, it also is consistent with the Russian statement that it was shot down by cannon fire and plane missile/s.
Western 'Investigators' did the 'Investigation'; there should be no doubt what caused a lot of the holes; no 'is consistent with', but forensic proof.
Just like the sophisticated face recognition systems available to the world's police and security agencies would have been able, with no doubt whatsoever, to prove that the fake Bin Laden video was just that, HAD THEY WANTED TO.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Channel 1 Russia really show this on TV?
You find yourself wondering everything...
Perhaps they don't have the resources to check the facts?
Perhaps they just don't care like the BBC on Iraq WMD?

Here's a site debunking the "Russian" satellite photo
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/MH17imageafake.php

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally found a decent article on this
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/new-mh17-satellite-photos- warning.html

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put this comment on saker; it's 'awaiting moderation':

The 'satellite photo' could very easily be debunked, indeed has been in double quick time. It is not a Russian satellite pic; the 'guy' who supposedly forwarded it to Russia could very easily be either identified by the Yanks, or shown not to exist.
Why any Russian media fell for this I cannot comprehend.
The Russian story of a fighter (or two) tracking and approaching the MH17 has been around for a long time, and the Russians have provided photo evidence of this.
Seems like a cheap trick by the ever-slimy West to present some easily dismissible 'evidence', and so discredit the very real evidence Russia has produced. Notice, no one has been able to dismiss the Russian's evidence.
Have they (the 'Slime') got agents within Russian media? Wouldn't surprise me; 'people' sell their souls for a few bucks, these days.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MH17 FULLY EXPOSED!! You Won't Believe The SHOCKING TRUTH About the Ukraine FALSE FLAG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Netherlands rejects MH17 relatives' request for UN investigation
Published time: December 09, 2014 21:38 Get short URL
http://rt.com/news/212895-mh17-dutch-reject-un/

The Netherlands has rejected a demand to allow the UN to replace Dutch experts at the helm of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 investigation. The proposal was made by relatives of the plane's passengers.

The law firm that represents 20 relatives from Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, and the US filed a letter request for “the UN to appoint a special envoy to take over” the inquiries on Friday, Reuters reported.

"The investigation by the Dutch Safety Board is being carried out not only by Dutch investigators," Dick Schoof, a senior justice ministry official, wrote in a reply to the law firm.

Schoof then provided a list of 11 countries which have already contributed to the investigation team – including Malaysia, Ukraine, and Russia.

The relatives behind the demand accuse the Netherlands of “completely botching" the investigation and the legal framework of the case.

They base their accusations on the fact that Dutch experts have been unable to access the crash site in eastern Ukraine, which is engulfed by internal conflict between the Kiev government and the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

The letter also blames investigators for failing to meet international requirements to secure evidence, as well as their inability to build a legal case to prosecute those responsible.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed in southeastern Ukraine on July 17, killing all 298 people on board.

The victims came from 10 nations, though the majority of the passengers were citizens of the Netherlands.

Probes by the Dutch Safety Board and an international investigation team are still underway, with Kiev and local militias blaming each other for the tragedy.

The Boeing 777 was allegedly shot down, but it remains unclear whether it was downed by a surface-to-air missile or a military plane.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angry Families of MH17 Crash Victims Seek UN Investigation
World | Reuters | Updated: December 06, 2014 00:32 IST

Angry Families of MH17 Crash Victims Seek UN Investigation

AMSTERDAM: Relatives of MH17 crash victims, angered by what they see as Dutch mishandling of inquiries into the disaster, want a special U.N. envoy to launch an international investigation.

A letter sent to Prime Minister Mark Rutte on Friday, a copy of which was seen by Reuters, said Dutch officials had failed to build a case. They asked that inquiries by the Safety Board and prosecution service be handed over to the United Nations.

Rutte should "request the U.N. to appoint a special envoy to take over," said the letter written by Van der Goen Attorneys.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was downed on July 17 over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew, two-thirds of them Dutch. Experts say the most likely cause was a ground-to-air missile fired from territory held by pro-Russian separatists.

The Dutch launched the largest criminal investigation in their history after the crash. This week, trucks are carrying pieces of the plane home, but much of the wreckage still lies in Ukrainian fields.

Dutch investigators, leading a case involving 11 countries, have not concluded how the plane was shot down or identified suspects.

The Netherlands "has completely botched" the fact-finding investigation and the legal framework of the case, said the letter, sent on behalf of 20 relatives from Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands and the United States.

Dutch prosecutors have been unable to access the crash site, in a war zone disputed by Ukrainian troops and Russian-backed rebels, or not met international requirements to secure evidence, the letter said.

"Nobody knows who is doing what," said Bob van der Goen, a spokesman for the law firm. "There is no coordination, there is no leadership whatsoever (by) Holland."

Rutte said on Friday the Dutch teams were returning to the Netherlands. "We have done everything we could. In view of the safety situation and the weather, we cannot do anything more right now," he said.

An international inquiry is the only way to identify who shot down the plane and ensure they are brought to court, the letter said.

Van der Goen has represented relatives of victims of a 1992 El Al jetliner crash in Amsterdam, a 2010 Afriqiyah Airways crash in the Libyan capital Tripoli and the 1977 Pan Am-KLM crash in the Canary Islands that left 583 people dead.

Relatives of the Pan Am-KLM crash victims received more than $100,000 each, the highest ever settlement at the time.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/angry-families-of-mh17-crash-victims -seek-un-investigation-630603

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought Malaysian number 2 - MH17 - had gone off the radar? Wrong. Just unpalatable news is being suppressed. Dutch officials bow to NATO pressure denying victims families this critical UN investigation http://sputniknews.com/europe/20141209/1015670229.html


Dutch Authorities Turn Down Request for UN Probe Into MH17 Disaster: Agency © Sputnik
EUROPE
20:11 09.12.2014(updated 21:13 09.12.2014)
REUTERS/ ANTONIO BRONIC
Dutch Will Allow Victim Families Glimpse of MH17 Wreckage at Air Base
MOSCOW, December 9 (Sputnik) – The Dutch authorities have refused to hand over the investigation into the MH17 plane crash to the United Nations, Reuters reported Tuesday.
The request was filed by a law firm on behalf of 20 relatives, who said the investigators were unable to build a legal case.

The bereaved families also pleaded with the Dutch government to let a special UN envoy take over the investigation.

The wreckage of downed MH17 airliner will arrive at an air base in the Netherlands in coming days

In response, Dutch national anti-terrorism coordinator Dick Schoof pointed out that the probe was carried out by experts from a total of 11 nations, including Malaysia, Russia and Ukraine.
The Netherlands is leading the investigation into the tragedy, as two thirds of the 298 people on board were Dutch citizens. A parallel criminal inquiry is conducted by Dutch prosecutors.

According to preliminary findings, the Malaysia Airlines Boeing disintegrated above a conflict-hit area in eastern Ukraine on July 17 after being hit by "a large number of high-energy objects."

On Tuesday, the wreckage of the ill-fated Malaysian airliner arrived at a military air base in the Netherlands. Some 50 relatives of the MH17 crash victims were authorized to watch the arrival. The debris, carried by a convoy of eight trucks, were photographed upon the unloading before experts proceeded to examine them.

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Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MH17 witness passes lie detector test, Ukraine denies jet in crash area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqVQQrUN_fE

This does not rule out being machine-gunned as well; there were early reports that the plane was hit by an air to air missile, and then 'finished off' with machine-gun fire.

Could be the pilot was told the plane was Putin's, when the authors of the atrocity were fully aware it was MH17. There is too much other information, like putrid bodies that were said to have been dead long before plane took off, and speed of military take over of the control tower.

PERHAPS the authorities thought the pilot might not shoot the plane down if he was told it was a civilian airliner. Also, he would hardly have shot any plane down, without direct orders. There were also Russian reports of ground to air missile batteries radar being turned on in Ukraine, which could have been used to pinpoint the plane for the fighter aircraft.

I still believe it was deliberate, not a 'terrible mistake'.

Also: Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17:
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/mala-a09.html

'..The New Straits Times article, titled “US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft,” lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however.

The New Straits Times article began, “Intelligence analysts in the United States have already concluded that Malaysia flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it. This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a jet that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.”

It cited “experts who had said that the photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes—the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with ‘flechettes,’ and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.”

The New Straits Times cited several sources to substantiate its position. One was testimony by a Canadian-Ukrainian monitor for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Michael Bociurkiw—one of the first investigators to arrive at the crash site. Speaking to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on July 29, Bociurkiw said: “There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine gun fire; very, very strong machine gun fire.”

Another source the paper cited was an article, “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts,” by former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry, who now writes for the ConsortiumNews.com web site. Given the lack of any evidence supporting US charges that pro-Russian forces shot MH17 down with a Buk anti-aircraft missile, Parry said, “some US intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault, and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.”

Parry indicated that sections of the US intelligence apparatus have concluded that US secretary of state John Kerry’s claims that pro-Russian forces shot down the plane are lies.

“Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an ‘extraordinary circumstantial’ case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the US government was ‘not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible,’ ” Parry wrote. “By then, I was already being told that the US intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry’s allegations, and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military.”

Finally, the New Straits Times and Parry both cite retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko, who has pointed to photographic evidence of MH17 wreckage suggesting that cockpit panels were raked with heavy machine gun fire from both the port and starboard sides. “Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through the panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry wrote.....'

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BRILLIANT COMPILATION - tell yr friends

New findings confirm Malaysian Airlines MH17 was shot down by Ukraine fighter-jet.
artedenoli / August 5, 2014
Update 8 February 2015
http://professorsblogg.com/2014/08/05/analysing-the-evidence-concludin g-that-the-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-shot-by-ukraine-su-25-fighter-j ets/

New analysis indicates that “data on Flight Tracking web sites was changed from four days after the plane went down”, and hypothesizes that adulteration in the Historic route data was devised to cover the fact that MH-17 was “deliberately re-routed onto the battlefield.” The analysis was taken from the site Be circumspect, published here.

Excepts from the article’s Summary:

“Prior to its tragic downing on July 17, flight MH17 had avoided the battlefield, flying around it at least back to the 6th (last day I downloaded data from the FlightAware web site). The above screenshots * prove that FlightAware.com historic route data has now been changed to make MH17’s route down the middle of a hot battlefield appear to be the “regular route”. In fact it was not. MH17 had avoided the battle zone everyday until it was redirected into the kill zone, shadowed by a fighter, and shot down using multiple air to air missiles.

The fact that the old flight routes are being changed on web sites, speaks volumes about the degree of the cover up. You see if MH17 was re-directed, set up to be shot down, then it clearly was not an accident. As of writing, neither Poland, nor the Ukraine have released air traffic control tapes. No doubt because they once again would point to MH17 being set up.”

* Screenshots seen in the full-article
Update 25 December 2014
Video – Interview with witness testifying it was Ukraine’s Air force who downed MH17. Full transcript in English:

Update 20 December 2014
Ukrainian Soldier Confirms: Ukraine’s Military Shot Down Malaysian MH17 Plane.

Click on image below for this report by Eric Zuesse

Update 23 Nov 2014
SCANDALOUS: SECRECY AGREEMENTS allow Ukraine to put a lock on any incrimination evidence on MH17 downing.

Click on image below to read the full report by Jan Fluitketel, a Dutch citizen who lives in Malaysia:

Update 14 Nov 2014
Revealing new radar data: other jets in same course as Malaysia Airlines MH17

[Click on image below for article]

Update 12 Nov 2014
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17. Artist: Amely Rose

Updates 6 Nov 2014
West media silence on MH17-downing analyses pointing Ukraine’s responsibility:

Click on image below

On “Evidence Is Now Conclusive”:

Update 5 Nov 2014

Click on screenshot below for the statements of Lt. General Pushkarev (Ret.), who maintains that the MH17 was downed by Ukraine forces.

.
Update 22 Sept 2014
Why the Malaysian MH17 plane was diverted to fly over the very war-scenario in East Ukraine – and then got shot down? This report published on the aftermath of the crash shed light on the issue of different routes assigned at different occasions to the same flight: “Questions over why Malaysian plane flew over Ukrainian warzone“.
Update 21 Sept 2014
German families of victims in the shot-downed Malaysian Airlines MH17 to sue Ukraine AND Poroshenko over instructions on flying-route.

Click on images below for full ABC News article, and the report in Malaymailonline, respectively. Further, a video reporting that the MH17 was lead to a new route, different to that one used in ten flights before.

Update 18 Sept 2014
Report from the Russian Engineers Association confirm Malaysian Airlines MH17 was shot down by Ukraine fighter-jet.
Russian experts’ analysis shows that Dutch MH17-report was rigged. Links to the report in English here. For the report in original Rusian, go here. Links provided by The Oceania Saker. Here a news video on the Russian report, with English texts:

Update 10 Sept 2014

See NYT article in this link

This was said by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts on deceiving Western media reports on Ukraine:

Update 9 Sept 2014
Comment by The Professors’ Blog on “Summary of Findings” published in the Preliminary Report [Comment and Link to the full report in Pdf., at section XI at the bottom of this page]. For instance:
The Report says: “The damage observed in the forward section of the aircraft appears to indicate that the aircraft was penetrated by a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft. It is likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up.”
THAT, the last formulation in the transcript above, is the plausible explanation of the fragmentation of the aircraft (causing the rests were found scattered on the ground), and NOT that the “destruction of the aircraft already in the air” would have been “obviously” the result of a surface-to-air missile impact. I have to note that “Western” media have not reproduced that last sentence in the news reports. An illustration here below:

DW: “Damage observed on the forward fuselage and cockpit section of the aircraft appears to indicate that there were impacts from a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft.” Period.

DW, 9 Sept 2014, Dutch preliminary report finds MH17 ‘pierced by high-speed objects’

Click to enlarge
Media sources of graphic above:

BBC, “MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane“; CBC News, “Video | Malaysia Airlines MH17: Michael Bociurkiw talks about being first at the crash site” ; Gobal Research, Calif. “The Downing of Malaysia Flight 17: Sinister Pretext for War with Russia“; Photo: NBAAI
Meanwhile:

Source: The Telegraph, “Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17“


Go to the Counter Punch article, “The Downing of Malaysia Flight 17 – Sinister Pretext for War with Russia” by Mike Whitney, 4 Sept 2014.

”Reader-comments to my July 31st article, First Examination of Malaysian MH-17 Cockpit Photo Shows Ukraine Government Shot that Plane Down, have provided links and leads to independent additional confirmatory evidence, to such an extent that I now feel confident enough to say that the evidence on this matter is, indeed, ’conclusive’.” / Eric Zuesse, in: “Evidence Is Now Conclusive: 2 Ukrainian Government SU-25 Fighter-Jets Did Shoot Down that Malaysian Airliner. No ‘Buk’ Missile Ground-Shot Was Involved.“ Washingtonblog.com, 2 August 2014.

Update 22 August 2014:

Interviewed by the Swedish TV, Foreign Minister Carl Bildt stated in absolute terms, “Of course Russian separatists were behind the shooting down of the Malaysian MH17″. “Of course” Bildt did not provide any evidence for his xenophobic statement. A new posted comment on author Johan Croneman’s analysis in DN of 17 August, published at Bildt: “Of course Russian separatists downed Malaysian MH-17″. No Swedish media asked him for his evidence.

Update 7 August 2014:
Breaking: A Malaysia main paper reports on US-experts’ findings which indicate the MH17 was downed by an air-to-air missile attack, finished by cannon fire. Malaysia asking, Did Ukraine Military Do It? Click on link for the full article “US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft“.


A followed story based in the cited experts findings, in link below:

MH17 Brought Down by Air-to-Air Missile, Finished Off by 30-mm Cannon, Experts Allege

Please read these links successively, as they provide enhanced evidence built on analyses of previous and new emerging findings.
UPDATED LINKS 7 August 2014 (See Part IV):

1) John Kerry Says the Rebels Downed MH17 In Ukraine. How Can He Know? Questions For John Kerry. By Ian Shilling (Ian56789).

2) The evidence is building that the Kiev military shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 in Ukraine (17 July 2017). By Ian Shilling (Ian56789).
I

http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014  /shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/
II

Professorsblogg translation of SU-25 tech. performance referred in the German article cited by P. Heisenko above:

III

http://www.opednews.com/articles/First-Examination-of-Malay-by-Eric-Zu esse-Activism-Anti-War_Obama-Administration_Peace_War_President-Barack -Obama-POTUS-140731-170.html
IV

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U
V


http://www.opednews.com/articles/First-Examination-of-Malay-by-Eric-Zu esse-Activism-Anti-War_Obama-Administration_Peace_War_President-Barack -Obama-POTUS-140731-170.html
VI



http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian- government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a -buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814
VII

Article by Prof. Anders Romesjö: Who shot down the Malaysian Airline MH17? [Swedish]


http://jinge.se/allmant/vem-skot-ned-malaysian-airline-mh17.htm
VIII


http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/07/31/the-mh17-downing-how-to-be-a-smart-ne ws-consumer/
IX

Updated links, 7 August 2014:

Author: By Ian Shilling (Ian56789).

1) John Kerry Says the Rebels Downed MH17 In Ukraine. How Can He Know? Questions For John Kerry (21 July 2014)

2) The evidence is building that the Kiev military shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 in Ukraine (17 July 2017)

Source for the two links above: http://ian56.blogspot.se

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'How MH17 was shot down in Ukraine - Film by Andrey Karaulov (Eng subs)

Link

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGxfn4R2r1k

Published on 13 Feb 2015
More on www.facebook.com/antimaidan.eng, twitter.com/AntimaidanENG

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