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Animal Rights forgotten in the truth movement
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rubber_ritchie
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Animal Rights forgotten in the truth movement Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm new to the truth movement but I have been active in the animal rights movement for 8 years. It suprises me that most in the 'truth' movement are silent on animal issues. In the UK alone over 900 million non-human animals are killed for food and the majority live a life of misery where they are castrated, debeaked, branded, taken from their mothers within days, etc. Volumes could be written about the horrific and unnecessary abuses that go on against non-human animals.

I went to see David Icke talk at the Brixton Academy last year. In 7 hours he said not a word about non-human animals. Please remember our non human animal brothers and sisters are victims of the New World Order too!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5097245970111922287&q=chew+on +this



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ritchie,
I think I could say I fully agree with your view on animal rights.

But there is no surprise that the "9/11 Truth Campaign UK and Ireland" is not focusing on animal rights:

It's outside our remit, our goals and aims.

There are far too many demands from all corners that the 9/11 Truth Campaign incorporates all of our induvidual personal beleifs. It doesn't make any sense to me that everyone is struggling to make this campaign the "My personal views + 9/11 Truth Campaign".

There are many campaigns existing which deal with animal rights, which deal with criticising Israel, which deal with the EU, Chemtrails, Crop Circles; the list goes on forever.

Nothing is stopping any of us from being a part of this campaign and others at the same time - let's not all get caught up in a situation where thousands of induvidual members all seek to incorporate the other issues they are passionate about into this campaign and focus on what unites us all.

There is a strong reason why the 9/11 Truth Campaign doesn't focus on every important issue under the sun: It dilutes our focus away from bringing the verefiable facts which refute the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 to the general public, and threatens to divide members who might not share our own beleifs, whereas there is one thing we ALL agree with:

The official story of 9/11 is a lie.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Stefan -
I fully support the principles - in fact they are very important to me, but I wouldn't expect the Truth movement to endorse such positions any more than I'd expect the ALF to become preoccupied with 911. Though individuals may have their own concerns regarding both issues.

I'm kind of surprised David Icke had nothing to say on the subject, though. IMHO the psychological attitude that allows us to treat other species as a mere commodity is the same one that allows us to go on to treat other humans as mere commodities. You'd think it's not beyond Icke's remit to at least acknowledge what we do to other species.



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been vegan for nearly twenty years. This includes no dairy or eggs.

The resistance is very high from most dedicated meat eaters, they are conditioned to believe that modern meat products are an essential part of every day living, additional hormones and antibiotics and all. Not to mention the way we distance ourselves from what objects on our plates really are/were. My twelve year old had no idea until recently that pork was actually dead pig.

I can say with absolute certainty that I am much healthier by not eating meat. It keeps my arthritis under control, my energy levels are always high, I have excellent skin and can't remember the last time I had a cold or infection.

This is a big subject on which I could write reams, you will be pleased to know I don't plan to.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you hear about the vegetarian cannibals?

- they just ate the nuts.

...I'll get my coat...

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Animals forgotten in the truth movements Reply with quote

rubber_ritchie wrote:
Hi,

I'm new to the truth movement but I have been active in the animal rights movement for 8 years. It suprises me that most in the 'truth' movement are silent on animal issues. In the UK alone over 900 million non-human animals are killed for food and the majority live a life of misery where they are castrated, debeaked, branded, taken from their mothers within days, etc. Volumes could be written about the horrific and unnecessary abuses that go on against non-human animals.


I must disagree with you. Britain has the strictest and best farming practices in the whole world. Countries like holland is what you are taliking about.
Why do you not campaign against the cruel merciless farmers of eurpe where most of our food actually comes from and why do you try to destroy the already decimated British farming community after 10 years of Labour rule.
Would you prefer the whole UK countryside to be housing estates as Blair and Brown would wish to have it?

And as for the meat is murder slant.
man was created to eat meat
our entire body is designed to eat meat. Our teeth move up and down not side to side. Our stomach has acid whereas vegetarian animals have no acid. Our intestines are short, our digestive enzymes are for meat, our bodies need certain vitamins and minerals only found in meat. 100% of meat that we eat is digested a very efficient process.

And what you meat is murder chaps forget is that if these farms were wiped out all those animals would also be slaughtered as they were everytime the government wants a new food scare. No meat means no cows. Nobody would keep them as pets and there is no wilderness for them to roam free.
Its like the animal campaigners who wanted the german zoo to kill the polar bare baby. Every animal has a purpose in life. A right to exist. if an animal exists to provide food for another animal then that is gods will and we must treat every animal humanely and kindly. If it is our decision to eat it then it must be raised humanely and respectfully and when it is slaughtered this must be done without cruelty. Then every part of its body must be used.


Eating a solely meat based diet has the following side effects.
No diabeties.
Weight loss.
Better hair and skin.
More energy.
NO IBS
Sharper brain function
the only reason for eating vegetables is dietry fibre
our bodies do not efficiently digest plant cellulose

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blackcat
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Christ's sake where do you get this bilge from Stelios. Yet again all problems are the result of the "Labour" government even though the farmers are the most heavily subsidised of any industry. If you want to see the "decimation" of an industry then look up coal mining and see what Thatcher did to it. Farmers even get paid specifically to do nothing under "set-aside" although they can plant rape seed for bio fuel in the "set-aside" and still get paid for "not" using the land. What a racket! Why do farmers not have to have Thatcher's famous market forces work on them? They would be all bust if they weren't so cossetted by the taxpayer to destroy the countryside they allegedly are custodians of. Will you please get it into your head that we do NOT have a Labour government but a Tory one with a new name.

As for the misinformation about vegetarianism it is shocking you should be allowed to post such blatantly wrong "information".
Quote:
Eating a solely meat based diet has the following side effects.
No diabeties.
Weight loss.
Better hair and skin.
More energy.
NO IBS
Sharper brain function
the only reason for eating vegetables is dietry fibre
our bodies do not efficiently digest plant cellulose

Is that supposed to be a joke? I do not know where to begin to counter that as it is so off the mark I suspect you are having a laugh.

Try http://www.innerself.com/Health/advantages_of_vegetarianism.htm for an insight into the advantages of a vegetarian diet or do a search and you will educate yourself. Here is an extract.

Quote:
Nutritionally, the alkaline-based digestive system of humans will not properly break down substantial acid substances, the greatest of which is meat. (Also, the amount of cholesterol in meat is unhealthy.)

Colon cancer is rampant! This is caused by the slow evacuation and the putrefaction in the colon of the remains of meat. Lifelong vegetarians never suffer from such an illness.

The type and amount of oils in meat are unhealthy and they turn rancid upon the death of the animal. The flesh and blood also began to putrefy as soon as the animal is killed.

Many meat eaters believe that meat is the sole source of protein. However, the quality of this protein is so poor that little of it can ever be utilized by humans because it is incomplete and lacks the correct combination of amino acids, the building blocks of protein.

Studies show that the average American gets five times the amount of protein needed. It is a common medical fact that excess protein is dangerous, the prime danger being that uric acid (the waste product produced in the process of digesting protein) attacks the kidneys, breaking down the kidney cells called nephrons. This condition is called nephritis; the prime cause of it is overburdening the kidneys.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Animals forgotten in the truth movements Reply with quote

stelios wrote:

Its like the animal campaigners who wanted the german zoo to kill the polar bare baby.


Is a 'polar bare' a naked eskimo?
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I often have to giggle at the justification of eating meat.

This was a stonker;

Quote:
the only reason for eating vegetables is dietry fibre


The picture of the stelios family all sitting on the loo straining to go (sorry but I see them as being Greek for some bizarre reason) - 'Hava yoo beena yeta?' 'Of course nota, I am on the porka chopa dieta'.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cats manufacture their own Vitamin C - we don't. God must have had an off day.

Edit - Come to think of it, they have big fangs and claws too.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks they need to eat meat because it's 'natural', should strip naked, go into the woods and see how far they get bringing down their prey with their bare hands. I wouldn't see fox hunters as such cowardly, sadistic scum if they managed to catch foxes by chasing them across field on their own.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I must disagree with you. Britain has the strictest and best farming practices in the whole world.


The only reason Britain has legislation as tight as it is (and which is still inadequate and flouted all over the shop) is because the animals rights movement has fought long and hard for it. But to say that animals are treated and killed humanely is simply untrue. The only reasomn we have meat as cheap as it is is because we have factory farming. Factory. Animals on a production line. Life as commodity. And yeah, if they didn't 'serve a purpose', a human purpose, they're apt to get destroyed. Says a lot about 'God's people', that - we have to keep cows to kill because we'd just exterminate the lot of them otherwise. Aren't we a charming species?

'humane treatment' - just so we can eat a cheap egg.



Makes you proud to be human don't it? -


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add that wonderful dietary requirements such as those imposed by Hal-Al, expose animals to the most horrific torture.

In 1991, I found myself in a French abbatoir. I am unable to find the words to describe witnessing several dozen calves hanging upside-down watching their own blood drip into a vat whilst they mooed - they must be blood free to qualify as 'Hal-Al' produce so they are bled to death.

I could HAPPILY have machine-gunned every worker in the place.

All this utter bilge about 'animals humanly put to death'.

Stelios needs considerable more exposure to the real world than Google.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can relate to that feeling Tele. I recall watching a fox torn to shreds by dogs right in front of me. The remaining mush scooped into a plastic bag and held aloft by some grinning upper class tw@t as scum on horses sat there looking proud like they'd just accomplished something wonderful. I'd have settled for a 9mm.

Essential reading:


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
I would add that wonderful dietary requirements such as those imposed by Hal-Al, expose animals to the most horrific torture.
In 1991, I found myself in a French abbatoir. I am unable to find the words to describe witnessing several dozen calves hanging upside-down watching their own blood drip into a vat whilst they mooed - they must be blood free to qualify as 'Hal-Al' produce so they are bled to death.
I could HAPPILY have machine-gunned every worker in the place.
All this utter bilge about 'animals humanly put to death'.
Stelios needs considerable more exposure to the real world than Google.


I have to disagree with you here.
My sister is vegetarian and so are many people i know.
But halal is the most humane farming method and the most humane slaughter system around.
Animals are not allowed to be stressed in any way, must be fed a strict diet of wholesome foods, and must be kept in a kind and humane way. You have given an example of FrencH abbatoir. I have already stated that British farimng and european farming are like chalk and cheese.

example in halal slaughter is the animal is not allowed to see another animal being killed nor is it allowed to be trussed or stunned or hunted or tortured.
Death must be instantaneous.
Hunting is forbidden only farmed meat is halal.
Halal is the same as kosher.
The meat is blessed and a prayer is said prior to slaughter.
Meat which is bruised or injured or has been kept in any bad way such as battery cages or away from sunlight is NOT halal.

I expected a fiery response to my post but i cant see anyone has diagreed with me about British meat versus european meat so we will leave that aside.

A high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate diet as demonstrated by the atkins diet is a cure for diabetes. I say this because 15 years ago i used to take metformin and had type 2 diabetes. I stated in several previous posts i do not go to any doctor for many years because all they do is lie to you and pump you full of pils.
I used to eat low fat and was always sickly and ill, regular flu, regular colds, tummy upsets, acid heartburn, high blood pressure, blood sugar problems, etc
About 10 years ago i heard about the atkins diet and have used that as my central food system ever since. All my symtoms went and have stayed away and i have never been back to my doctor since.
I dont need to look on google to know that meat in my diet makes sense.
It provides amino acids, complex omega 3-6-9 fattyacids ot the short chains provided by oils.
I also removed soya from my diet and all vegetable oils except olive oil and coconut oil and ground nut oil and palm oil. I dont eat as much carbs but still give in to cravings of chocolate and ice creams and chips and bread. But i realise that the bulk of my food must include a decnet percentage of fat and a decent percentage of protein.

Back to halal, alot of food sold in the world and called halal in fact is NOT halal. So do not think of your local asian butcher selling mince 5lbs for 2.99 as a purveyor of halal meat. And whole cooked chickens for 2.50.

Real halal meat is usually expensive because it is like organic
and is the most cruelty free meat you can get

look up the word TAYYIB for an explanation
In the muslim religion all humans and all animals are created by god and are equal. It is a sin to tread on an ant or kick a dog and it is an offence to hunt for sport or for food. However, it is decreed that some animals are created to provide food and so that is there purpose for existence. You tell me what is wrong with raising a flock of chickens, feeding them playing with them stroking them, eating their eggs and every now and then taking one and after stroking it and making it feel relaxed and comfortable instantly when it is not expecting it killing it intantly.
Then respectfully eating all of it. It is far more disrespectful to only eat the breast and toss the rest away. And it is far more cruel to shock it first and then kill it in a giant machine where its collegues can watch what is happening.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Death must be instantaneous.

How can bleeding to death be instantaneous?

I still think you are having a laugh so I won't respond to anything else you posted.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:

I have to disagree with you here.
My sister is vegetarian and so are many people i know.
But halal is the most humane farming method and the most humane slaughter system around.
Animals are not allowed to be stressed in any way, must be fed a strict diet of wholesome foods, and must be kept in a kind and humane way. You have given an example of FrencH abbatoir. I have already stated that British farimng and european farming are like chalk and cheese.

example in halal slaughter is the animal is not allowed to see another animal being killed nor is it allowed to be trussed or stunned or hunted or tortured.
Death must be instantaneous.
Hunting is forbidden only farmed meat is halal.
Halal is the same as kosher.
The meat is blessed and a prayer is said prior to slaughter.
Meat which is bruised or injured or has been kept in any bad way such as battery cages or away from sunlight is NOT halal.

I expected a fiery response to my post but i cant see anyone has diagreed with me about British meat versus european meat so we will leave that aside.

Back to halal, alot of food sold in the world and called halal in fact is NOT halal. So do not think of your local asian butcher selling mince 5lbs for 2.99 as a purveyor of halal meat. And whole cooked chickens for 2.50.

Real halal meat is usually expensive because it is like organic
and is the most cruelty free meat you can get

look up the word TAYYIB for an explanation
In the muslim religion all humans and all animals are created by god and are equal. It is a sin to tread on an ant or kick a dog and it is an offence to hunt for sport or for food. However, it is decreed that some animals are created to provide food and so that is there purpose for existence. You tell me what is wrong with raising a flock of chickens, feeding them playing with them stroking them, eating their eggs and every now and then taking one and after stroking it and making it feel relaxed and comfortable instantly when it is not expecting it killing it intantly.
Then respectfully eating all of it. It is far more disrespectful to only eat the breast and toss the rest away. And it is far more cruel to shock it first and then kill it in a giant machine where its collegues can watch what is happening.


My response isn't intended to be fiery, it is that you are simply misinformed, deeply misguided and a trifle gullible.

The dhabiĥa halal (bleeding to death) causes unnecessary suffering to the animal, which is not stunned before slaughter. However, I do concede the point that obviously the prayers will help the poor creatures a great deal, I should have thought of that before being too forthright.

The label you assign the produce is irrelevant, as is the cost of the meat.

Please do some research before responding (don't rely on your sister) - calves 'killed' by being bled to death can take up to 45 minutes of torture to die. Halal demands no blood, hence the ONLY way to purge the blood from the body is to get the heart to pump it out whilst the animal lives.

However, the biggest thing you haven't even thought of is the fact you have just shot yourself in the foot by your own shortsighted logic;

In one post you say how wonderful and humane the industry is, then in the next;

Quote:
And it is far more cruel to shock it first and then kill it in a giant machine where its collegues can watch what is happening.


You can't have it both ways - either it is humane or it isn't?

Whoops.


Last edited by telecasterisation on Mon May 21, 2007 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like you to retract your deliberate MISINFORMATION
once the animal has been killed the fact that its body is drained of blood after it is dead is in no way cruel the animal is already dead and in fact meat that is drained of blood is far cleaner and healthier for us.
Your allegation that an animal is left to die SLOWLY is a complete and utter LIE
if you cant argue by stating the facts then i suggest you piss off back 'upstairs'

my sister is a vegetarian so she is on your side not mine and why would i be asking her for any advice about halal meat?

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackcat wrote:
Quote:
Death must be instantaneous.

How can bleeding to death be instantaneous?
I still think you are having a laugh so I won't respond to anything else you posted.


i am willing to debate with vegetarians the rights and wrongs of eating meat and the benefits but please use facts rather than fiction for your argument.
Halal meat is not meat that is bled to death, death must be instant usually with a sharpened blade by a skilled expert who must be experienced.
If death takes more than a milisecond to occur the meat is not halal and the butcher will be suspended or sacked. He must test the blade first and must make sure it is very sharp.
So whether you agree with meat or not dont misrepresent what is the most cruelty free meat on the market to forward your argument.
As you know with 911 lying about something gets you nowhere.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
I would like you to retract your deliberate MISINFORMATION
once the animal has been killed the fact that its body is drained of blood after it is dead is in no way cruel the animal is already dead and in fact meat that is drained of blood is far cleaner and healthier for us.
Your allegation that an animal is left to die SLOWLY is a complete and utter LIE
if you cant argue by stating the facts then i suggest you piss off back 'upstairs'

my sister is a vegetarian so she is on your side not mine and why would i be asking her for any advice about halal meat?


I note you play the affronted card, allow yourself to experience a negative internal state and offer up bad language.

Prior to my mum's death, one of the last things she told me was that when someone resorts to profanities, their argument is lost.

I have experienced a facility that supplied the halal market, I have seen animals bleeding to death. This is because experienced halal butchers are becoming scarcer and the business of producing the 'proper' produce has been farmed out to outside agencies. Finding those capable of delivering an incision that stops the flow of blood to the brain that causes death is a 'dying' art (no pun intended) - so although you paint a lovely picture of prayers and dancing girls designed to get the animals in a party mood - what you believe happens and what ACTUALLY happens are two completely different things.

As for my 'side', I am primarily a vegan for health reasons - my health has never been so good.

Instead of getting upset and producing a philippic, state your personal experiences of the halal industry not what 'Google' tells you.

I also note you ignore my very difficult point about the dichotomy that exists between what you want to believe about the wonderfully humane British slaughterhouse system and your next point about inhumane it is - this I believe is why you feel so compromised.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does humane mean ?
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
What does humane mean ?


Depends on who you ask. In the context of this little debate, saying prayers and giving the lamb a hug before taking its life is somehow justification.

I am surprised that Fred West didn't think of using that as a defence, after all, buying your victim a box of chocolates and a Richard Gere video prior to sticking a knife in must gain brownie points.

Perspective truly is the meaning of life.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:

so although you paint a lovely picture of prayers and dancing girls designed to get the animals in a party mood


have you been smoking some of the green stuff?
please show me my quote where i spoke about dancing girls in the abatoir

this is the problem
a poster started a thread about how "meat was murder"
i took up the challange and countered it in my own way but always looking to counter the argument
you on the other hand seem to make up your own stuff and then make it look like the person you are debating has said it
Telling you to piss off back 'upstairs' is in response to your disinformation.
I dont put words into your mouth. And i would say the same thing if i meet u at one of the london meetings which i regularly attend.
I suggest you retract your dancing girls jibe too.
What is your facination with google too. i actually use lycos as my home page but most people use google so what. At least i dont make up stuff about 'dancing girls' and 'bleeding to death' like you do.

I believe meat is healthy to eat. I believe in god. I am anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-Blair and anti-EU. And i believe that according to the evidence i have seen 911 and 7/7 were both inside jobs.
I believe in telling the truth and you can read all my posts and show me where i have ever contradicted myself.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:


have you been smoking some of the green stuff?
please show me my quote where i spoke about dancing girls in the abatoir

this is the problem
a poster started a thread about how "meat was murder"
i took up the challange and countered it in my own way but always looking to counter the argument
you on the other hand seem to make up your own stuff and then make it look like the person you are debating has said it
Telling you to piss off back 'upstairs' is in response to your disinformation.
I dont put words into your mouth. And i would say the same thing if i meet u at one of the london meetings which i regularly attend.
I suggest you retract your dancing girls jibe too.
What is your facination with google too. i actually use lycos as my home page but most people use google so what. At least i dont make up stuff about 'dancing girls' and 'bleeding to death' like you do.

I believe meat is healthy to eat. I believe in god. I am anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-Blair and anti-EU. And i believe that according to the evidence i have seen 911 and 7/7 were both inside jobs.
I believe in telling the truth and you can read all my posts and show me where i have ever contradicted myself.


Ok that's cool, play the 'avoidance of all your salient points' card.

No comment on your clear switcheroony from 'best farming practices' to 'then kill it in a giant machine where its collegues can watch what is happening'?

I showed you where you contradicted yourself previously and I've just done it again. Please, either keep up with the debate or leave it.

There have been no lies or anything made up, you simply don't like what I presented to you.

There are countless consumers of halal produce who are content to simply accept it for what it appears to be - the animal is blood-free because its heart carried on beating after the incision was made. The consumers do not know this happens. This I know for I have witnessed it.

You can cruise lycos until the dead cows come home - but nothing can beat personal experience which I asked you to provide, but none was forthcoming.

Animals are not made to relax prior to death for the good of the animal this is done so as to not release adrenaline which taints the meat.

The concept of adorning the creatures in flower petals and playing it a Mary Hopkin CD prior to cutting its throat is decidely bizarre.

I have no problem however with what you choose to believe, if that includes an omnipotent being that revels in drowning young children because its ego has been compromised, then that's equally cool.
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Witchfinder General
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how many of you would continue to eat meat if animals were sold as living creatures and you had to take them home on a trailer or in the boot of your car and kill them when you got home?

I know that when I drive past a lorry full of sheep on the way to slaughter, I feel pretty disgusted with the human race.

When I was a postman 30 odd years ago I used to deliver mail to the abbatoir, I tell you there was always an awful bad smell every time I went there, maybe this had something to do with the fear in the animals, sometimes you could hear animals screaming when they knew they were being lined up for slaughter.

When I was a small boy my dad used to kill chickens for a local poultry farmer and I used to sit in the killing shed with him while he wringed their necks.

I still remember one day when I felt sorry for one chicken that had a limp, I said to my dad please don't kill this one.

Well I thought he was saving that one for me but he just killed it last.
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blackcat
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mary Hopkin
Shocked
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rubber_ritchie
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys!

Wow! What a thread. Thank so much for all the wonderful replies. Stelios, in 15 years of researching vegetarianism I have never heard many of your claims. You have clearly never read anything on the subject. The Atkins diet made people loose weight but then led to terrible health problems. My Atkins himself died of a heart attack.

I appreciate this isn't an issue that the 9-11 Truth movement should take on. Of course we need to be focused on 9-11. On a broader scale though I think it's important we address how the system is causing so much suffering to animals.

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Stefan
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubber_ritchie wrote:
Hi guys!

Wow! What a thread. Thank so much for all the wonderful replies. Stelios, in 15 years of researching vegetarianism I have never heard many of your claims. You have clearly never read anything on the subject. The Atkins diet made people loose weight but then led to terrible health problems. My Atkins himself died of a heart attack.

I appreciate this isn't an issue that the 9-11 Truth movement should take on. Of course we need to be focused on 9-11. On a broader scale though I think it's important we address how the system is causing so much suffering to animals.


Ritchie,
I agree that it's a much neglected part of the bigger picture. I also agree it's surprising Icke doesn't touch it since his mandate is as broad as he wants it to be.

Obviously I don't think this particular movement should cover it, and I'm glad you agree, but it's certainly good to see discussion about it on this board!

See you at the meeting on wednesday week hopefully. Smile

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karlos
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubber_ritchie wrote:
Hi guys!

Wow! What a thread. Thank so much for all the wonderful replies. Stelios, in 15 years of researching vegetarianism I have never heard many of your claims. You have clearly never read anything on the subject. The Atkins diet made people loose weight but then led to terrible health problems. My Atkins himself died of a heart attack.

I appreciate this isn't an issue that the 9-11 Truth movement should take on. Of course we need to be focused on 9-11. On a broader scale though I think it's important we address how the system is causing so much suffering to animals.


I sincerely hope you watched SKY news today.
You criticise British farming practices. Which are the best in the world. you criticise Halal which is the most humane meat in the world yet you "meat is murder" guys never talk about other countries like china which was featured on sky news today. After watching that today feeding tigers with a live cow and previous stuff about skinning live animals and boiling live animals for thier pelts.
How dare you keep silent about china.
They have taken animal cruelty to unprecedented levels yet you are blinkered and only concerned with attacked the wrong people.

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blackcat
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone who supports the feeding of live cattle to tigers says so on this site then expect people to respond critically. I suppose the main reason why people do not bring up the subject is because this is a 9/11 truth site. Maybe people deal with that topic elesewhere. I would not have raised the issue of animal cruelty but since someone did, and you posted your..... erm.... views, then I felt compelled to respond. I still suspect that you are having a laugh though.
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karlos
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a meat eater. But i believe in compassion in farming and am against the kind of cruelty practised in other countries like europe and as we all saw on tv today and previously in china.
I am still waiting for the poster to condemn chinese treatment of animals.
You were very happy to condemn Britain.

Why are you not calling for a boycott of chinese goods?
Why because you prefer to attack Britain which has the highest animal welfare standards in the world.

Why isnt the other poster boycotting french goods? You say you went to a french abatoir what did you do about it? Still buying your french cars and drinking your french wines i bet.

I buy British.

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