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2nd Malaysian Airliner MH17 downed in Ukraine nr Russia
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fish5133
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: 2nd Malaysian Airliner MH17 downed in Ukraine nr Russia Reply with quote

Another Malaysian Airliner Goes Down

Quote:
A Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, according to aviation sources cited by the Russian news agency Interfax.

The airliner, which was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 295 people on board, is thought to have come down close to the border with Russia.

A spokesman for Malaysian Airlines has confirmed "an incident" on board one of its flights and is expected to release a statement shortly.

More follows...


http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news/malaysian_passenger_plane_crashes _in_ukraine

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And a fighter jet now too - but who do you believe??

Ukraine claims fighter plane shot down by Russian missile
Russia denies strike on jet, the third reported incident this week, amid accusations of involvement in attacks on Ukrainian troops
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/ukraine-claims-plane-shot -by-russian-missile

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could be the false flag they need to start WW3.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/489495/Malaysia-passenger-plane-MH 17-crashes

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This summer's Ghouta?

Okay, first of all WTF is a commercial airliner doing flying near the highly dangerous E Ukraine airspace?
NOTAMS surely forbid this after numerous shootings down of helicopters and aircraft over the last two months! If not why not?
Maybe an extra £200 in fuel to divert south through safe airspace
Something stinks
Who is the aviation safety authority for EU???
They have big questions to answer!
As do Malaysian Airlines once more.

My instant guess, Blackwater did it. Subcontracted by CIA who want full return on Victoria Nuland's billions already spent.

Wow
BTW please ALWAYS repost complete stories as when it's a false flag, as this may be, the psychological warfare people, both military & privatised, go into overdrive getting embarrassing facts removed or edited. They usually do this by hacking, moles or by legal threats & they are getting very good at it.
So always keep the original article by cutting & pasting it here please Wink

BREAKING NEWS: Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane 'shot down by Russians' killing 295 people
A MALAYSIAN Airlines passenger plane with 295 people has crashed in Ukraine today killing everyone onboard after reportedly being shot down by Russian authorities.
By: Dion Dassanayake Thu, July 17, 2014



Malaysia, Malaysia plane, Malaysia plane crash, Malaysia Airlines, Ukraine, Russian, passenger, Boeing 777A second Malaysia Airlines plane has crashed today, this time near Russia[AP]

The Boeing 777 went down near the Russian border when it was flying at an altitude of 33,000feet after a surface to air missile allegedly hit it.

Flight MH17 was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was downed and emergency services rushed to attend to the burning wreckage of the plane where they found debris and dozens of dead bodies scattered on the ground.

It marks the second tragedy involving Malaysia Airlines this year. In March flight MH370 carrying 239 people went missing and despite an extensive search not a single trace of it has been found.

The country's government later said they believed the plane had crashed and all aboard MH370 were dead.


1984 wrote:
This could be the false flag they need to start WW3.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/489495/Malaysia-passenger-plane-MH 17-crashes

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flight seemed to be on the east side of Ukraine - very wide of the Great Circle route from Amsterdam to KL which would have taken it on the west side of Ukraine. The fact that it was flying directed over a war zone is very, very strange. What pilot would agree with that route? (Apparently quite common!)

The tail number of the aircraft cf MH370 - one character difference: a "D" rather than an "O". Could a new identity of the aircraft be created in the months since MH370 went missing?

Quote:
Flight 17 was operated with a Boeing 777-2H6ER, serial number 28411, registration 9M-MRD... Malaysia Airlines 777, Flight 370 (registration 9M-MRO), went missing on 8 March 2014.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources
Published time: July 17, 2014 18:13
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.


"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this MH17 is MH370, or the one that was seen parked at Tel Aviv for months?
Many of us have suspected (at least from the time of the 'Identikit' plane at Tel Aviv) that one of them was to be used in a 'False Flag' op.
No evidence yet, but we can, of course, be assured that the upstanding Ukrainian 'Authorities' will do a proper investigation, and tell us the truth, can't we? Rolling Eyes
I hope the Separatists, who appear to have custody for now, get as much evidence of the identity numbers of any parts they can, and look for evidence of tampering, because the MH370 'evildoers' have had plenty of time to effect the switches of identity numbers, be the downed plane MH370 or it's twin that WAS at Tel Aviv. Any one seen that one lately?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another little 'coincidence' -
MH17 Passenger Apparently Took Extraordinary Photo As He Boarded:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/17/extraordinary-facebook-phot o-mh17_n_5595865.html?1405616351

'Flight MH17 - a Boeing 777-200ER travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur - was in transit over the war-torn region when it disappeared from radar screens.

Cor Pan, who describes himself as self-employed and a resident of Volendam in North Holland, posted the image earlier today shortly before the flight's scheduled takeoff.

The data on Facebook suggests it is genuine - confirming it was taken at Schiphol Airport near Amsterdam and showing it was taken shortly before the flight took off at 12:15pm local time - 11.15am UK time...'

(photo)

Cor Pan posted this image that suggested he was about to board MH17 before it took off from The Netherlands. It says: "If it disappears, this is what it looks like'

Friends initially posted, wishing him a good holiday.

But when news of the crash emerged, they began frantically posting and asking whether his flight was the one that had gone down and trying to confirm his flight number.

As this story went live, people were posting 'Rest in Peace' in Dutch.'

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found an interesting post on AV Herald, which I incorporated in my (split, due to it being too long) comment:

http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

Does anyone know if a BUK mobile missile can reach 30,000 ft.?
This looks remarkably like KAL 007, which many believe was a deliberate 'putting in harms way' of the airliner under orders from US/SK, with the object of getting it shot down to demonise the USSR (see 'Closed Airspace??
(Quote) By (anonymous) on Thursday, Jul 17th 2014 20:25Z

There was a Notam activated 3 days ago due to military activity for different areas of Ukraine. One of them is the area overflew by MH17: A83 LS DIMAB L980 GANRA TAMAK

FM FL260 UP TO FL320. 14 JUL 18:00 2014 UNTIL 14 AUG 23:59 2014 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 14 JUL 15:58 2014

MH17 was flying at FL330, only 300 meters of vertical separation. Would not have been better to choose another route? I mean, for example, flying through Romania - Black sea - Georgia and so on?

Good that this airspace is now totally close.')(End quote).

People in the 'conspiracy community' have long believed MH 370 (and it's twin parked in Tel Aviv) were to be used in some kind of 'False Flag' attack - is this it?

The gibberish numbers he speaks of will make sense to a pilot, but it's easy enough to get the gist.

'Airspace NOTAMs': http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ntm/not0601.html

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9 mile debris field according to one report. Like to know exact location as a Reuters agent was at the scene very quickly confirming bodies scattered everywhere.


Also half burying the bad news of an Israeli ground invasion in Gaza

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-posting here as I put three posts on the MH 370 site:
I wonder if this MH17 is MH370, or the one that was seen parked at Tel Aviv for months?
Many of us have suspected (at least from the time of the 'Identikit' plane at Tel Aviv) that one of them was to be used in a 'False Flag' op.
No evidence yet, but we can, of course, be assured that the upstanding Ukrainian 'Authorities' will do a proper investigation, and tell us the truth, can't we? Rolling Eyes
I hope the Separatists, who appear to have custody for now, get as much evidence of the identity numbers of any parts they can, and look for evidence of tampering, because the MH370 'evildoers' have had plenty of time to effect the switches of identity numbers, be the downed plane MH370 or it's twin that WAS at Tel Aviv. Any one seen that one lately?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another little 'coincidence' -
MH17 Passenger Apparently Took Extraordinary Photo As He Boarded:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/17/extraordinary-facebook-phot o-mh17_n_5595865.html?1405616351

'Flight MH17 - a Boeing 777-200ER travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur - was in transit over the war-torn region when it disappeared from radar screens.

Cor Pan, who describes himself as self-employed and a resident of Volendam in North Holland, posted the image earlier today shortly before the flight's scheduled takeoff.

The data on Facebook suggests it is genuine - confirming it was taken at Schiphol Airport near Amsterdam and showing it was taken shortly before the flight took off at 12:15pm local time - 11.15am UK time...'

(photo)

Cor Pan posted this image that suggested he was about to board MH17 before it took off from The Netherlands. It says: "If it disappears, this is what it looks like'

Friends initially posted, wishing him a good holiday.

But when news of the crash emerged, they began frantically posting and asking whether his flight was the one that had gone down and trying to confirm his flight number.

As this story went live, people were posting 'Rest in Peace' in Dutch.'

_________________
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found an interesting post on AV Herald, which I incorporated in my (split, due to it being too long) comment:

http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

Does anyone know if a BUK mobile missile can reach 30,000 ft.?
This looks remarkably like KAL 007, which many believe was a deliberate 'putting in harms way' of the airliner under orders from US/SK, with the object of getting it shot down to demonise the USSR
(see 'Closed Airspace?? (Quote) By (anonymous) on Thursday, Jul 17th 2014 20:25Z

There was a Notam activated 3 days ago due to military activity for different areas of Ukraine. One of them is the area overflew by MH17: A83 LS DIMAB L980 GANRA TAMAK

FM FL260 UP TO FL320. 14 JUL 18:00 2014 UNTIL 14 AUG 23:59 2014 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 14 JUL 15:58 2014

MH17 was flying at FL330, only 300 meters of vertical separation. Would not have been better to choose another route? I mean, for example, flying through Romania - Black sea - Georgia and so on?

Good that this airspace is now totally close.')(End quote).

People in the 'conspiracy community' have long believed MH 370 (and it's twin parked in Tel Aviv) were to be used in some kind of 'False Flag' attack - is this it?

The gibberish numbers he speaks of will make sense to a pilot, but it's easy enough to get the gist.

'Airspace NOTAMs': http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ntm/not0601.html

_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.


Last edited by outsider on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

compare the pictures of MH17 with the 9/11 plane United Airlines Flight 93
that the official conspiracy says crashed in a field Pennsylvania. MH17 has plenty of debris, huge bits of plane wreckage and bodies. Flight 93 had very little wreakage and no bodies.

It is very convenient for the West and Ukraine to blame Russia and the Eastern Ukrainians as a pretext for war. This in itself makes one suspicious of this incident.
It could be the case that a covert CIA or blackwater operation could have used a s-a-m to bring the plane down, and they could have disguised themselves as Eastern UKrainians. It is also possible for them to have created fake tweets so that it looked like tweets came from eastern Ukrainians. Its also possible for them to do the same with the alleged intercepted phone calls that Ukraine claim were from Eastern Ukraine discussing the downed plane.

as another poster said, maybe Putins plane was the real target and they made a mistake.

many questions.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I add that if anyone sees any thing on the internet of interest, then not only do we need a link, but its advisable to keep a hard copy of it, as so often, the links dont work and the post has gone later on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scienceplease 2 wrote:
The flight seemed to be on the east side of Ukraine - very wide of the Great Circle route from Amsterdam to KL which would have taken it on the west side of Ukraine. The fact that it was flying directed over a war zone is very, very strange. What pilot would agree with that route? (Apparently quite common!)

The tail number of the aircraft cf MH370 - one character difference: a "D" rather than an "O". Could a new identity of the aircraft be created in the months since MH370 went missing?

Quote:
Flight 17 was operated with a Boeing 777-2H6ER, serial number 28411, registration 9M-MRD... Malaysia Airlines 777, Flight 370 (registration 9M-MRO), went missing on 8 March 2014.



Here is a short RT clip which shows two numbers, both of which could easily have been switched; one is just a stick-on, and the other the part could have been switched (on the clip between 1.43 - 1.52).

Malaysia MH17 crash scene: Militia and witness reports:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epbCX6QqkY&feature=em-uploademail

But as you say, they have had ample time to completely strip down an aircraft, and reassemble it with 'alternative' parts from another aircraft.
Although it's not the tailnumber you were talking about but another part number, oddly enough the '0' does look odd!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take

Why was MH17 flying through a war zone where 10 aircraft have been shot down?
http://rt.com/op-edge/173788-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

Beginning his working life in the aviation industry and trained by the BBC, Tony Gosling is a British land rights activist, historian & investigative radio journalist.
Published time: July 18, 2014 10:06

Put yourself in the position of a certain passenger boarding the Malaysian Airlines flight at Amsterdam for the twelve hour trip to Kuala Lumpur on Thursday morning. Given a previous Malaysian flight's mysterious disappearance it's likely he was not the only boarding passenger who was a little nervous when he joked on social media, "If we disappear, this is what the plane looks like."

Settling down on the flight then watching the moving map display on the seat in front, you might perhaps see the word 'Ukraine' edge its way across from the right of the screen. Would you not be a little uneasy in the knowledge that quite a lot of planes have been blown out of the skies there recently? That there's a war on?

Check out David Cenciotti's 'Aviationist' blog and you’ll see that 10 aircraft have been shot down in eastern Ukraine in recent weeks. Five MI-24 Hind and two MI-8 Hip helicopters, as well as military transport planes, one AN-2 and an AN-30. On July 8, the latest transporter, an Il-76 was shot down at Lugansk when the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine closed their airspace indefinitely to civilian aircraft. But why did the air traffic control regulators keep directing planes over eastern Ukrainian territory at higher altitudes?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but on any of hundreds of flights over Ukraine in the past month I might even have been tempted to tug the sleeve of one of the cabin staff. Asking them brusquely to get reassurance from the captain straight away that we would not be passing through the very airspace where so many planes had so recently been brought down.
So what was the plane doing there?

Malaysian Airlines was quick to point out that the Ukraine war zone had been declared 'safe' for them to fly over by the UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). Was this the same authority that was party to closing Europe and the North Atlantic for almost a week for Eyjafjallajökull's ‘volcanic ash cloud’ drifting out of Iceland? Canceling the flights of around 10 million passengers? Yet they fail to close a war zone where they know ground-to-air missiles are flying around?

I do hope ICAO regional director Luis Fonseca de Almeida will apologize in person to all the victims’ families before he resigns and hands himself in for questioning. Of course, this is not the only arm of the UN and other parts of global governance to be failing, crippled, and where the people appointed to run it seem to be pliable stooges rather than independent-minded enough to be up to the job? Let's hope too that the Malaysian authorities will heed the voices in their professions warning against relying too much on help from international bodies which may be used against them.

As for who's responsible, it’s unlikely the shooting down was a random ‘pot shot’ by Ukrainian separatists who would have nothing to gain and only further isolate themselves by such an act. There are also doubts as to whether they have access to this sort of weapon system, more advanced than any that appears to have been used so far. Which is presumably why ICAO and Malaysian Airlines thought 30,000-foot high airliners were safe from shoulder-launched missiles.

Appearing on BBC TV’s Newsnight, weapon systems expert Doug Richardson said the relatively high altitude airliners fly at offers “no protection” from what he believes was probably a former Soviet ‘Buk’ missile, developed in the 1970s, that did the dirty deed.

Shot across bows of Russian presidential jet?

Then there is the proximity of the MH17 shoot-down to Russian President Vladimir Putin himself, who happened to be flying home, west to east, from Brazil. Russia's equivalent to Air Force One, the Ilyushin-96 'Board One' was roughly half-an-hour's flying time, about 200 miles (320km), behind the Malaysian plane as it passed near Warsaw just before the doomed jet entered Ukrainian airspace, which the presidential jet avoided.

As the Western powers' anti-Russian sanctions are failing to bite and the Kiev government they back is losing on the ground, this may indicate a NATO motive for the attack. If so this sort of audacious act may also be an early test of loyalties by the West's power elite of Britain’s new Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond and Defense Secretary Michael Fallon. The message being, “Watch that you don't get any troublesome ideas of making your own minds up on the matter.”

The timing of the attack is intriguing too, being the day after a historic agreement Putin signed, along with Chinese president Xi Jinping, in the Brazilian city of Fortaleza to create a BRICS World Development Bank. Quite possibly the greatest challenge since Bretton Woods in 1944, to the dubious monopoly of the World Bank, was indeed signed on Wednesday by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

For those that muse on the obsessive nature of those that spend their lives pursuing ever more money until the day they die, there is a shocking recent history of nations and their leaders coming to a sticky end that dare to oppose the global monopoly of the petrodollar, and that of the enforcers at the World Bank and IMF.

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein didn't know what fate lay ahead when he announced in November 2000 that he was taking the first steps toward setting up a bourse, or oil exchange, which traded in euro rather than dollars. Two-and-a-half years later, weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist had been 'found' in his country and the bombs were raining down, Saddam and his fellow countrymen was illegally invaded under orders from Messrs. Bush and Blair and the nation plunged into the sort of chaotic hell which is now spreading like a plague around the Middle East and from which one wonders if it will ever emerge.

Similarly when debt-free Libya's Colonel Gaddafi and his shuttle diplomacy had secured agreement from enough African leaders to announce the creation of an African reserve currency, the African gold dinar, he found his country up in front of the United Nations Security Council on a fabricated charge of 'bombing his own people'. On May 1, 2011, the weekend of William & Kate's royal wedding in London, one of Gaddafi's sons and three of his grandsons were blown to pieces in an airstrike and NATO began to bomb the country - blessed with the lowest infant mortality rate on the African continent - back to the Stone Age.

Although no ground troops were allowed by the UN, mercenaries were sent in, and on October 21, Gaddafi was finally executed with a bayonet up his backside. National governments in the West these days really do seem to have become an irrelevant side show when the power of the military dances to the tune of the unrestrained mega-resourced muscle of the IMF and its friends.

Why Malaysian Airlines?

'To lose one plane may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.' Though it might seem trite to borrow from Oscar Wilde’s 'Importance of Being Earnest', is it really pure coincidence that both this and the March ‘disappearance’ of MH370 have been with unfortunate Malaysian jets? Neither appears to have been an ‘accident’, so could both be acts of aggression, acts of war against Malaysia? If so why, and by whom?

Malaysia is a genuinely independent nation torn between East and West. Like Ukraine and so many other medium-sized independent countries, Malaysia is finding it very difficult to stay independent. As the world inches towards what many believe may become an enormous world war, brought on by the collapse of capitalism, it is becoming increasingly impossible for small and medium-sized nations to remain independent. So yes, there is likely to be pressure on the Malaysian leadership to make alliances and this, perhaps, could simply be an attempt to intimidate, to force their hand.

It’s comforting to repeat that nobody wants an economic collapse and nobody wants a world war, but it wouldn't be the first time that ruling elites have deployed these two chestnuts as a 'double whammy'. Making a fortune out of a crash is easy when you can see it coming and, as well as being an archaic 'human sacrifice' to the old gods, war is the best way to distract everybody who might be thinking of locking you up. For anyone who dares to look, the evidence is there that the US decided to step up the projection of their already ruinous military power at the time of the 9/11 attacks, probably as a reaction to the waning power of the dollar.

As Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey, part of Iraq Veterans Against the War and of the US chapter of Veterans For Peace, said when interviewed for Venezuelan State Television, “There are no rules, this is World War III. The rule book went out the window on September 11th.[2001].”

As a regular attendee at US Marine Corps intelligence briefings Jimmy was in a position to know rather more than the West’s public, media or politicians do about how far down the mission line covert policies of the White House and Pentagon have crept.

European and North American countries have realized too late in the day that only by keeping stiff exchange controls can they stay sovereign nations. Without them international finance capital will move in with infinite resources to destroy everything that stands in its way, from media to parliaments, nothing can withstand them. Even the courts now are finally about to be co-opted into the service of the tax evading transnational corporations should the secretly-negotiated Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) be signed later this year.

The courts will then be theirs to overturn any parliamentary decision the corporations don’t like, and they have been saving up lots and lots of cash to pay the very best lawyers in the world, to make sure they win.

No shortage of people who’ll shoot down an airliner for you

With the privatization of war in the West, points out UK charity War On Want, “repeated human rights abuses” are being “perpetrated by mercenaries, including the indiscriminate killing of civilians and torture. Unaccountable and unregulated, these companies are complicit in human rights abuses across the world, putting profit before people and fanning the flames of war.”

So if you want somebody to fight a nuclear war, conduct a massacre, or shoot down an airliner for you nowadays you can buy those services on the free market. The proliferation of private military companies since 9/11 suits the military industrial complex very nicely, thank you. But how has the world come to the point where such companies have state protection and business is, quite literally, booming?

The problem again, is the global banking giants who have been shown in court, time and time again, to be hand in glove with the intelligence services and international drug cartels. Whether it’s Iran Contra with drugs flying one way and guns the other, or HSBC’s piffling $2 billion fine in 2012 for money laundering, they are not just criminals who are above the law, they are now shaping it in their own private interest.

It is not just the Asian, Pacific and South American power blocs they seek to control who will be watching them, but their own people, those they depend on to survive. With every evil act they think they’ve got away with, they are painting themselves into a corner as the Trans-Atlantic edifice they are trying to control crumbles beneath them.

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest!
Seems the 'Buk' missile battery that shot down MH17 was lurking in the village of Styla near Donetsk yesterday.
Perhaps the locals know all about what went on?
http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/

scienceplease 2 wrote:
The fact that it was flying directed over a war zone is very, very strange. What pilot would agree with that route? (Apparently quite common!)

I know I wouldn't! - so piss easy to just fly a few hundred miles south or north using negligible extra fuel....
Thats why I made it the crux of my piece - makes it look like a set up to me - through reopening airspace as if it was safe - that - it seems - was done by Kiev and surely, at that point, the International Authorities - IATA and more importantly UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization ICAO regional director Luis Fonseca de Almeida - would have to be leaned on. Unless he is utterly incompetent and lazy anyway.

CF the non existent Ash Cloud - in hindsight was that just an enormous secret 'exercise' in military control of civil airspace? Quite probably.

fish5133 wrote:

Also half burying the bad news of an Israeli ground invasion in Gaza

Crucial
Evidence indicating a possible NATO/Israeli PsyOp - which the entire Western media - as ever - have missed

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got my first (if I remember rightly) comment removed by Guardian:


18 July 2014 1:18pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysia-airlines-crash-f light-recorder-found-as-anger-at-russia-mounts-live-updates?commentpag e=1
'Compare MH17 (or MH170) - smell of aviation fuel and burning rubber; lots of wreckage, body parts; UA93 crash Shanksville - no smell aviation fuel, no wreckage, no body parts: AA77 crash Pentagon: no smell of aviation fuel or burning rubber (but a strong smell of cordite, according to military personnel fully conversant with it's smell!), no wreckage (on lawn in front of hole said to be entrance hole of 77), no body parts; Pan Am crash Lockerbie: lots of wreckage and body parts.
Since the 'loss' of MH370, and discovery of it's Malaysian Airlines-liveried sister aircraft that had been parked for months in Tel Aviv, many conspiracists have expected a 'False Flag' attack using one of the two aircraft; identification numbers on all parts could have been switched, even if the planes had to be totally stripped down and rebuilt, by now.
And of course, there is the 'intercepted communication' of two 'rebel officers' (just like there was in Syria, discussing the Chemical attack, only here we were told they were Syrian army officers) - not difficult, given US mastery of 'Voice Morphing' technology.
And the US is going to determine 'where the missile was fired from' (and we are expected to believe their 'unbiased' findings?).
Human life means nothing to the psychopaths and sociopaths that run our world; human sacrifices to their nefarious, Luciferian agenda can be expected at any time.
May God bless the poor victims, and their grieving relatives and friends.'

I'll try to be more 'Diplomatic' next time!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting:
http://vladimirsuchan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/another-false-flag-lh-17- likely-downed.html

And here is a clairvoyant at Pravda: "Await a false flag ..." note date.
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/08-07-2014/127986-ukraine_ terrorist_regime-0/

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Very interesting:
http://vladimirsuchan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/another-false-flag-lh-17- likely-downed.html

And here is a clairvoyant at Pravda: "Await a false flag ..." note date.
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/08-07-2014/127986-ukraine_ terrorist_regime-0/


Hmm.

The most likely reason MH370 disappeared was remote hacking of the aircraft.

The most likely reason for MH-17 crashed (I think we have enough evidence for a crash here cf MH370) is that... it was also remotely hijacked!

Why?
- Same aircraft type - same airline. If MH370 was hacked so could MH-17
- there was video of the crash! No evidence of missile interception or fighter interception.
- there is no reason why Russians would shoot down airliner and the separatists would not have the capability to shot down an airliner at 30,000foot.
- Putin flying overhead beforehand seems spurious
- Russia and Ukraine will blame each other. No-one will accept the outcome of any air crash investigation no matter what it says. Could Ukraine have organized a false flag? I don't believe that either: False flags are created by the stronger party.
- Who benefits? The USA and Israel! Israel started their ground offensive in Gaza the same day - what a coincidence!!! And USA - stirring up trouble in eastern Europe is just what it needs in the middle of the Farnborough Air Show to secure a few more jet fighter deals... (ok, that last comment might be overly cynical). But USA does have motive, means and opportunity - if only as a support to Israel.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodies came through roofs SP
all over 6km radius impact zone
Several eyewitnesses saying they saw it come down the - six miles - from 30,000 ft over several minutes

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the editor of The Ecologist

On 10th July we ran this story about Ukraine
http://bit.ly/W0c5aY
In which Mike Whitney predicted a major 'false flag' attack in E Ukraine. What he did not predict was the timing - to coincide with Israel's land-invasion of Gaza. Here's what Mike wrote:

But, so far, Putin has resisted the temptation to get involved which is why new puppet president Petro Poroshenko has gone all 'Jackie Chan' and stepped up the provocations by pummeling east Ukraine mercilessly. It's just a way of goading Putin into sending in the tanks.

But here's the odd part: Washington doesn't have a back-up plan. It's obvious by the way Poroshenko keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. That demonstrates that there's no Plan B.

Either Poroshenko lures Putin across the border and into the conflict, or the neocon plan falls apart, which it will if they can't demonize Putin as a "dangerous aggressor" who can't be trusted as a business partner.

So all Putin has to do is sit-tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow's gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame.

So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow's doing.

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2472120/ukraine_its_the _gas_gas_gas.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17

Eyewitness Accounts July 18, 2014 Comments: 30
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kie v-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

(See the Text of Carlos / @spainbuca Tweets Below the Article)

Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

http://cyberwarzone.com/mh17-ukrainian-security-service-sbu-seized-dis cussions-air-traffic-control/

Quote:

MH17: The Ukrainian security service SBU has seized the discussions of air traffic control
http://cyberwarzone.com/mh17-ukrainian-security-service-sbu-seized-dis cussions-air-traffic-control/




Quote:
UKRAINIAN MILITARY ESCORTED B777 UNTIL 3 MINUTES BEFORE DISAPPEARING
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggest s-kiev-military-shot-down-

Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

Jul 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is not independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Mr Mark said: "I can only tell you as a commercial pilot myself that if we had been routed that way, with what's been going on in the Ukraine and the Russian border over the last few weeks and months, I would never have accepted that route.
"I went into the FlightAware system, which we all use these days to see where airplanes started and where they tracked, and I looked back at the last two weeks' worth of MH17 flights, which was this one.
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"And the flight today tracked very, very much further north into the Ukraine than the other previous flights did ... there were MH17 versions that were 300 miles south of where this one was."
Records of recent MH17 flights on the FlightAware appear to bear out Mr Mark's claim, with earlier flights significantly further south than the flight that crashed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975524/Cras hed-MH17-flight-was-300-miles-off-typical-course.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Bodies came through roofs SP
all over 6km radius impact zone
Several eyewitnesses saying they saw it come down the - six miles - from 30,000 ft over several minutes


Reports of bodies...
"Several eye witnesses"...

The US satellites have identified the missile battery (apparently) (And yes, a BUK missile system can easily bring down an airliner) but where are the aerial photos of the crash site? (Shanksville apparently was an intact aircraft that had a wide debris field).

Have you seen this video?

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/17/wolf-vo-m alaysia-airlines-mh17-impact.cnn.html

CNN says it looks like it came down in one piece.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brits finger village of Torez as launch point
“While it is too early to be categorical about the cause of the disaster... evidence suggests that MH17 was shot down by a surface to air missile and that this was fired from near Torez, in territory controlled by the separatists...On this basis we assess that, without compelling information to the contrary, it is increasingly likely that MH17 was shot down by a separatist missile,” the UK's government statement said.
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/


Wow - no beating about the bush here

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov


1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not an explosive device on the plane-- remote detonation.. Only evidence for missile is the phone conversations of military leaders
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fish5133 wrote:
Why not an explosive device on the plane-- remote detonation.. Only evidence for missile is the phone conversations of military leaders


Yes, there are lots of reports of bodies falling from the sky... a combination of a small bomb and remote hijacking?

I go back to the video of the crash - if there was a large bomb on board then debris would be visibly falling from the sky and seen in the crash video. If there was a small bomb then maybe it could have taken out passengers.

To sort this out you would need an aerial view of the crash site.

To explain the three Malaysian 777s in this riddle, how about this:



Malaysia is targeted because of:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/22/george-w-bush-tony-blair-found -guilty-of-war-crimes-in-malaysia/

and

http://vpm.org.my/about-us
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmmm - yr quite right SP
Also - video is a little flaky - but there simply may not be any decent footage

See this also - yr absolutely spot on
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/breaking_news/2011/11/bush-blair-found-gu ilty-of-war-crimes-in-malaysia-tribunal-judgment-of-the-court-pdf.html

Quote:
Mahathir, who stepped down in 2003 after 22 years in power, unveiled plans for the tribunal in 2007 just before he condemned Bush and Blair as “child killers” and “war criminals” at the launch of an annual anti-war conference.

A seven-member panel chaired by former Malaysian Federal Court judge Abdul Kadir Sulaiman presided over the trial, which began last Saturday, and both Bush and Blair were tried in absentia.

“The evidence showed that the drums of wars were being beaten long before the invasion. The accused in their own memoirs have admitted their own intention to invade Iraq regardless of international law,” it said.

The verdict is purely symbolic as the tribunal has no enforcement powers.

The tribunal is also expected to later hear torture and war crimes charges against seven others, including former U.S. Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld and former Vice-President Dick Cheney.


Also the radar footage is online

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LnM6MWOcg

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www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/


Last edited by TonyGosling on Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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