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Getting rid of God from this forum......
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Long Tooth
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Getting rid of God from this forum...... Reply with quote

Mods,

is there any chance you can have a section to put all the religious garbage in?

God, heaven, earth, arcturians, evangilists, moonies, the bible says this the bible says that, etc etc.



to all the bible bashers out there, can you post one shred, just one shred of evidence to back up these god, jesus myths, thanks. btw blind faith dosant count.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like it or not, religion is integral to everything that goes on in life. You can't keep creating boxes for this stuff.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

utopiated wrote:
Like it or not, religion is integral to everything that goes on in life. You can't keep creating boxes for this stuff.


I take it thats a no? on the request for one shred of evidence then?

In your opinion, ''religion is integral to everything that goes on in life'', but why do you assume the mantle for speaking for all life? who gave you that authority?

just one shred i ask? is it too much trouble?

The religious wackos are posting ever increasing garbage, bible this bible that, put it in a box, and keep the threads, bible myth free.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long Tooth wrote:

who gave you that authority?


GOD

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

utopiated wrote:
Long Tooth wrote:

who gave you that authority?


GOD


Can you ask him who did 9/11 the next time you have a 'chat'? oh never mind it says so in the bible you'll be warbbling next, i rest my case.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like we've developed the consensus that overtly theological threads are best in "other controversies"

If you see a thread that you feel concerned about Long Tooth, just drop me or any other mod a pm calling it to our attention (preferably with a link!). Regretably, Mods arn't omnipotent so I dont get to read everything Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A spiritual board has my vote, which might happen when the forum is changed, as it will be expanded to embrace other non 9/11 centric discussion.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:
A spiritual board has my vote, which might happen when the forum is changed, as it will be expanded to embrace other non 9/11 centric discussion.


A spiritual section also gets my vote, minus the bible and other mythical textbooks, unfortunately few people can distinguish between the two.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long Tooth wrote:
Mick Meaney wrote:
A spiritual board has my vote, which might happen when the forum is changed, as it will be expanded to embrace other non 9/11 centric discussion.


A spiritual section also gets my vote, minus the bible and other mythical textbooks, unfortunately few people can distinguish between the two.


I wouldn't go that far by a long shot! People of all religions, faiths and spiritual beliefs should be welcome here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lot of religion can be transposed into philosophy anyway

stop whining!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what is ironic; to discuss getting rid of god from a forum, we have to do just that. It is funny too that authority too , to discuss the relevence of god or whatever name you wish to put on fear of reality is claimed to be given by god. Ha, is that not who speaks to mr bush too. I think that involving personal faith into any discussion on nine eleven plays exactly into the hands of those that wish to use it as a means of deflecting from discussion about the facts. Faith, god . . These are exactly the what is used . The point is it will lead nowhere. Someone who wishes to keep their eyes shut to the reality of the world will do . Tony blair whenever he is asked about the iraq mess he replies about having faith it was the right thing to do . So ignore all facts and ignore the aftermath . With religion all evil is possible. Instead why not ask the brain to think and put religion and its distortion away. I have wasted too much time on it. It is not productive .
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With mind all evil is possible: and also all good

Using mind to infer all who choose to find value in having religion in their lives as potentially more able to be evil is an act of evil in itself

I'm quite fond of religion personally, and know not to blame a map for how the ego of man might use, or abuse, it. And I also know that a map is not the territory

Lets not be too quick to feed our ego's with the desire for every body else concerned about the same issue as us to be our belief system clones: for that is an act of ego delusion: another cause of "evil"

Should a Muslim, for example, not be worthy of desiring 9/11 truth?

Our strength is in Unity: not conformity

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:
With mind all evil is possible: and also all good

Using mind to infer all who choose to find value in having religion in their lives as potentially more able to be evil is an act of evil in itself

I'm quite fond of religion personally, and know not to blame a map for how the ego of man might use, or abuse, it. And I also know that a map is not the territory

Lets not be too quick to feed our ego's with the desire for every body else concerned about the same issue as us to be our belief system clones: for that is an act of ego delusion: another cause of "evil"

Should a Muslim, for example, not be worthy of desiring 9/11 truth?

Our strength is in Unity: not conformity
My God. this is gonna bowl you over John. but I am in agreement with you on this one. We should not push the believers in faith into segregation. We are fighting opression remeber (Longtooth)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll stand on my principles anytime David, and its always good not to stand alone.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my point exactly. Whether you are partial to it or not does not have a basis in regard to the facts. All evil is possible with religion be it muslim or christian . All evil is possible from all . We are individuals and you are right it is the mind as is that not the product of any religious belief that the mind is the operator. Religion though is a smoke screen it may motivate masses but it is not the reason and when we can get that put away we can see that where it should be left is for private contemplation. We will never have peace by trying to resolve the world through faith as faith is based on what you believe without proof. Exposing false flag terror does not need it. There will never be agreement based on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Lynne I could debate these points to great length, but I'm not going to go further down that road (though on other forums I would be happy to, and often do). The fact is, this forum does not differentiate its members based on any belief system they may have, whether theist, atheist or a synthesis of the two: but as already stated, if a particular viewpoint on issues purporting to or arising from 9/11 is considered to be likely to cause controversy outside of the range of amicable debate, it may be moved to "other controveries"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a few hundred years time, the population will view Christianity just the same way we today view the Greek Gods, Pagans or Roman Deities etc.
That is just FACT!

Religion is a primitive ideology, perpetrated by those who use it as a control mechanism. Zionism... The Catholic church... Masonic organisations... need I go on? Rolling Eyes

Ps. when you all die, it is going to be exactly the same as before you were born... How obvious does something need to be? :Sigh:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: God and Faith Reply with quote

I am not religious. but I can see why people have their faith. there are a lot of people who need their faith to carry this cause. We must not make them feel outcast. I challenge any man here who is fighting this cause to say they are not scared of what could become of us. I have not had a decent nights sleep for many years. Many people find the strength they need in their god. While these Neo-cons and Nazis are on the loose threatening our very existence. Then faith can get us through. if you do not have faith or any faith to lean on, you may have another way to cope. I do not think we should force others to remove their faith from this equation. I am not offended by the faith. Neither should you be. Many soldiers go to war with the knowlege their god is with them. I would not like to deny people that right on here.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo wrote:
In a few hundred years time, the population will view Christianity just the same way we today view the Greek Gods, Pagans or Roman Deities etc.
That is just FACT!

Religion is a primitive ideology, perpetrated by those who use it as a control mechanism. Zionism... The Catholic church... Masonic organisations... need I go on? :roll:

Ps. when you all die, it is going to be exactly the same as before you were born... How obvious does something need to be? :Sigh:
I'm sorry Bongo. I usually find your posting balanced. But this time you have over generalised. you or anyone else does not know what we become when we die. It would be arrogant of us to destroy aor attempt to destroy anothers faith
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo wrote:
In a few hundred years time, the population will view Christianity just the same way we today view the Greek Gods, Pagans or Roman Deities etc.
That is just FACT!


This is so obviously not a fact that I can't be bothered making the argument.

Bongo wrote:
Religion is a primitive ideology, perpetrated by those who use it as a control mechanism.


Christ's ideology.."Love your enemies"....primitive???

'I don't think so.

Religion is the collective ordering of humanity's search for the transcendent.
The leadership of any organisation exercises control. That's what leaders do. To criticise religious leaders for exercising the wrong kind of control is fair enough but that doesn't seem to be the argument you are making.

John White wrote:

I'm quite fond of religion personally, and know not to blame a map for how the ego of man might use, or abuse, it. And I also know that a map is not the territory.


Brilliant comment John.



Long Tooth wrote:

to all the bible bashers out there, can you post one shred, just one shred of evidence to back up these god, jesus myths, thanks.


Like yourself, I once rejected the 'God' nonsense. I later came to a terrible suicidal moment in my life where something extraordinary happened to me. I don't really know what it was. I was projected into a kind of ecstacy of affirmation. In that state of pure love, of unfathomable 'knowing', all was accepted and all was forgiven. No other response was possible.

It remains the defining moment of my life, for me.

All I really want for myself is to live in this experience again.

The ideology that seems to capture the consciousness of this state most closely seems to me to be the teachings of Christ. There are no words to describe whatever it was I experienced but the word everyone else uses is 'God', so that will have to do.

This will never serve as 'proof' to anyone else but I don't need any more proof now, although I really would like it.

One other thing should be said......These experiences are not uncommon. I have read that about one person in three will have such an event sometime in their lives. 'Near-death' experiences seem to often be of a similar ilk. I can read these and know exactly what they are trying to describe.

Mocking or rubbishing these things as meaningless cannot change my mind in the slightest. I know this was the realest thing that ever happened to me.

One last thing. Occassionally one comes across an individual whose demeanour and transparent goodness might be described as 'holy'. In my experience such individuals have always seriously practiced their religion and they have been 'religious' in the best possible way.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Bongo wrote:
In a few hundred years time, the population will view Christianity just the same way we today view the Greek Gods, Pagans or Roman Deities etc.
That is just FACT!


This is so obviously not a fact that I can't be bothered making the argument.

Bongo wrote:
Religion is a primitive ideology, perpetrated by those who use it as a control mechanism.


Christ's ideology.."Love your enemies"....primitive???

'I don't think so.

Religion is the collective ordering of humanity's search for the transcendent.
The leadership of any organisation exercises control. That's what leaders do. To criticise religious leaders for exercising the wrong kind of control is fair enough but that doesn't seem to be the argument you are making.

John White wrote:

I'm quite fond of religion personally, and know not to blame a map for how the ego of man might use, or abuse, it. And I also know that a map is not the territory.


Brilliant comment John.



Long Tooth wrote:

to all the bible bashers out there, can you post one shred, just one shred of evidence to back up these god, jesus myths, thanks.


Like yourself, I once rejected the 'God' nonsense. I later came to a terrible suicidal moment in my life where something extraordinary happened to me. I don't really know what it was. I was projected into a kind of ecstacy of affirmation. In that state of pure love, of unfathomable 'knowing', all was accepted and all was forgiven. No other response was possible.

It remains the defining moment of my life, for me.

All I really want for myself is to live in this experience again.

The ideology that seems to capture the consciousness of this state most closely seems to me to be the teachings of Christ. There are no words to describe whatever it was I experienced but the word everyone else uses is 'God', so that will have to do.

This will never serve as 'proof' to anyone else but I don't need any more proof now, although I really would like it.

One other thing should be said......These experiences are not uncommon. I have read that about one person in three will have such an event sometime in their lives. 'Near-death' experiences seem to often be of a similar ilk. I can read these and know exactly what they are trying to describe.

Mocking or rubbishing these things as meaningless cannot change my mind in the slightest. I know this was the realest thing that ever happened to me.

One last thing. Occassionally one comes across an individual whose demeanour and transparent goodness might be described as 'holy'. In my experience such individuals have always seriously practiced their religion and they have been 'religious' in the best possible way.
That was beutiful KBO. Man destorts God words. Not the other way 'round. One can be a slave to religion, or free in faith. Religion is man made.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:23 am    Post subject: The Ultimate Power Reply with quote

The Ultimate Power

Religions and beliefs are okay, as long as those who believe in this or that refrain from stuffing their ideas down other people’s throats.

The problem is that they never have, and, it seems, they never will refrain from doing so.

Marx left something out, almost certainly on purpose: Religion is not just the opium of the people, it is the ultimate power used by those who would rule. What goes in front of the ism is not important. It's the fear factor which matters.

Fear has always played a big part in religion, and fear is what control is all about. Therefore, to suggest that religion should be segregated from discussions on what are known as 'secular' matters, is to play right into the hands of those currently in power.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a little surprised to see this topic brought up.
i would like to register my disagreement.
I believe in God and i believe that most of the problems in todays world are caused by godlessness.
like the never ending wars and like the massive investments in nuclear arsenals dropping depleted uranium onto civilian population, extrordinary rendition, torture, chemtrails, poisoning the food chain and water supply, and finally this desire by the rapturists to bring about armageddon by firing rockets into Jupiter and Saturn.

Athiesm is the problem and discouraging people from expressing their faith is a move that will please the New Labour spin doctors.

To me it does not matter with faith a person follows, belief in God means a person behaves with a constant one eye looking over ones shoulder.
people who believe in God have a conscience

Which of the murderers of 911 or 7/7 believes in God?
Silverstein?
Guiliani?
George and Marvin Bush?
Tony Blair
Dick Cheney?
These people are money worshipping freemasons who have only one master and that is greed and power.

Did mother teresa harm anyone?
Does Cat Stevens harm anyone?
Do not confuse people who believe in God with devils who believe in death and destruction and greed.

In any case who on this website has talked about God?
I do not think anyone rams it down anyones throats. It is the athiests who are constantly Ramming their religion down my throat so if you are going to blacklist God you must equally blacklist Athiesm which is a recognised religion and belief system.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Who says? I do. Oh." (by Robin Basket)

And the good lord spoke to me

Who says?

He said

Who says he said?

I do

Oh.

Said the good lord spoke to me
And he told me what to do
And he told me to tell you what to do
And he told me to tell you when to do it
And he told me to tell you what will happen if you do
And he told me to tell you what will happen if you don't

Yes the good lord spoke to me

Who says?

He said

Who says he said?

I do

Oh.

And it's all there in my book
What the good lord said to me
When he told me what to do
When he told me to tell you what to do
When he told me to tell you when to do it
When he told me to tell you what will happen if you do
When he told me to tell you what will happen if you don't

Yes the good lord spoke to me

Who says?

He said

Who says he said?

I do

Oh.

I've only got your word for it. It begins and ends with words. Your words.

Yes but the good lord spoke to me.

Who says?

He said

Who says he said?

I do

Oh.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.venganza.org/



As a Pastafarian I can sympathise with Stelios's views about the atheist religion constantly ramming ramming ramming their religion down our throats (I can talk for everyone can't I?). The non-belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is at the heart of their belief system as is their non-belief in a billion other "religions". The arrogant ba*tards!!! They must repent and dedicate themselves to his almighty Pasta before they lose their mortal souls. I speak for all of Pastafaria (as is my way) when I condemn all non-believers belief in not having a belief system as the non-religious religion at the heart of all the world's ills. Open your hearts to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and learn to love!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stelios wrote:
if you are going to blacklist God you must equally blacklist Athiesm

And if you should thereby find yourself stuck in an infinite loop just pray that his almighty Pasta will rescue you. All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Getting rid of God from this forum Reply with quote

FROM WHERE I STAND

This debate has come out of the blue and we should be extremely careful that it does NOT split this TRUTH seeking movement down the middle. This forum could easily descend in a debate of getting rid of
atheists or believers and will be counterproductive. We should keep civility and unity in mind in truthseeking otherwise some of us will become cause of problems as opposed to bearers of truth and solutions for humanity.
Whilst it is agreed that this is not a forum focussing on God or religion we should bear in mind that 9/11 investigation can NOT be divorced on the beliefs of how the world should be made, in whose image or vision, man's nature and destiny as well as good and evil.
Some of the leading thinkers and writers in the 9/11 truth movement here and internationally are motivated and inspired by their faith and that should be respected by newcomers still intoxicated by their brainwashing of the GODLESS SATANIC New World Order. Deep multilevel analysis of 9/11 will reveal that those forces behind 9/11 are inspired by totally nonspiritual and evil values totally opposed to God and goodness.
So broadly speaking spiritual and religious questions and matters are going to inevitably arise and to advocate quarantining them will not be conducive to truthseeking. Indeed my thread, " When the love of Profits clashes with the love of the Prophet " has had 25000 plus hits here. It refers to the ultimate struggle of the values of the spirit, faith and truth as opposed to those of falsehood, greed and power underpinning 9/11. Whilst the thread is by no means run by a Bible/Quran basher it certainly is values focussed and is central to this forum and is mainstream.
As stated before religion is a double edged sword and can be a force for control and oppression or freedom and liberation. How do you explain the significance of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad or recently Khomeini's role in changing their societies?
As truthseekers we need to acknowledge the pivotal role of faith, spirituality and religion otherwise we maybe colluding with the evildoers behind the New World Order . This forum is NOT the monopoly of any group of believing or disbelieving truth seekers. John White as a moderator should take heed that as a moderator needs qualities of patience and wisdom and not jump the gun as he stated very quickly at the start of this thread we have reached some consensus on the issue when it had not even begun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The words of Utopiated, David Sherlock, Kbo234, Anthony Lawson and Stelios should be heeded. Laughing


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The consensus I refered to was moderator consensus: the original title of this thread was "FOA Moderators", Long Tooth then altered the thread title about six or seven replies in

Member consensus is obviously going to take a little longer...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long Tooth wrote:
utopiated wrote:
Like it or not, religion is integral to everything that goes on in life. You can't keep creating boxes for this stuff.


I take it thats a no? on the request for one shred of evidence then?

In your opinion, ''religion is integral to everything that goes on in life'', but why do you assume the mantle for speaking for all life? who gave you that authority?

just one shred i ask? is it too much trouble?

The religious wackos are posting ever increasing garbage, bible this bible that, put it in a box, and keep the threads, bible myth free.


There are a lot of Christians in the 9/11 movement. and if you look around the Web you will find there are many Christians fighting the 666 system. As the two are linked together, calling them "Wacko's" will only lead to alienate them. I imagine you are sincere, but you could be misconstrued in you validity. There are a lot of Christians who are being deceived in to believing the World Council of Churches is a good thing (Ecumenical 200) which is a tool of the New World Order http://www.oikoumene.org/en/home.html
Also we have the "Alpha Course" which runs a learning program across the ecumenical board. This is distributed and accepted by all denominations, no matter how diverse the doctrines are from one and another. http://alpha.org/uk/
http://alpha.org/default.asp If one church teaches "Marion Worship" another teaches "Gifts of the Sprit and so on.... how can one course be appropriate.

As for the Christian drive for the opposition of the NWO. http://www.cuttingedge.org/radio.html

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Stefan
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storm in a tea cup.

If someone wants to post specifically on a spiritual or religious topic they would probably naturally do it in "other controversies" anyway, if they want to reference their faith in relation to something - let them - it's a free country after all!

If we start saying any mention of someones spiritual beleifs should be "quaranteened" then next we have to move for political beliefs (non-partisan movement remember), then what? Favorite colours?

I also agree that "strong athesim" is a position of faith, not science, only agnosticism is scientific. You can't say "there is no god" and then claim to be on some rational high horse over some one who says "there is a god", since both positions are based in beleif and not fact.

Mick is right as well, I know Ian has plans to create a much more specific set of forum boards which will give ALL types of conversation a place in the sun, opening the forum up for both strict evidential discussion on 9/11 and philosophical rambling alike, all neatly in their own little houses. Which I think is the perfect solution.

As a final note, I think it's ironic that a thread asking for "god" to be banned from the board would turn into a debate about faith. Ironic and predictable.

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