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Zeitgeist The Movie
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Dogsmilk
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did I say David Coleman when it's David Cole? Curse my hedonistic youth and subsequently addled brain!
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karlos
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
George Bush and Tony Blair are Christians. Though if you were to say they don't act like Christians should, I'd totally agree.


George Bush is widely reported as being a worshiper of the deity Molech a Babylonian 'god'.
Tony Blair aparantly was an Anglican but has for some time been a closet Catholic. Now i can remind everyone that nobody lies about their faith. But Tony Blair does lie, he is quoted as denying faith altogether, saying he is an Anglican and also attending Catholic mass despite not having been confirmed as a Catholic.
I would say that shows a lack of faith that a person can flitter between religions so easily. Catholism is completely different from Protestantism. EG one says all things are pre- ordained - one says man has free will.

Remember you cannot become a freemason and continue to believe in God. You cannot order the death of millions and still believe that God exists. These guys pretend to follow religion. But it is all a lie.

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weareallone
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: do not forget ... weareallone Reply with quote

Dogsmilk and other revisionist bashers,

Well here we all stand. I've dangled the bait and the zombie-patrol have swallowed it whole line and sinker. Congratulations, you have just exposed yourselves, naked for all to see. The only conclusion to draw from these rabid posts is one of the following:

1) You are an agent of the intelligence agencies or their partner the ADL or an offshoot (these moles do exist are are active everywhere on these forums) who have infiltrated this and other forums to swarm the "antisemites",
2) Jewish and therefore biased from the beginning, or,
3) Delusional and really do believe the lies and spin of the mass media who have manipulated your mind.

It is the same pattern on all these "truth" sites (JKF, 911, etc.). Somebody comes along with a revisionist view that goes completely against the grain of mainstream thought that has been drilled into our heads the day we were born, and the swarm of bees from the collective hive emerges to stamp out honest debate and discussion, using fear tactics, misinformation, or slander as their main arguments. Since there doesn't seem to be any objective discussions when these topics arise, I'll place my bet on 1), a mole, but that's not the point of this post.

I'm posting this not for you, Dogsmilk or the other revisionist bashers here, as it would be hopeless anyway and we know your agenda. I'm posting this for the real people out there who are starting to wake up to all this, and to direct them into research they never thought relevant, but hopefully now will.

The main point is this, anyone who downplays revisionist history, are also downplaying 911 truth. 911 is going to be crammed down the throat of history just like the Holocaust. If we don't wise up, in 40 years there's going to be a discussion just like this one, where some poor sap on some forum in the future is going to say "No but wait, the physical evidence shows that the buildings were brought down by explosives!", and then a future Dogsmilk will show up (as planned) and say, "You're crazy, you must be a terrorist to say such awful things. What 'bile'!" The parallels to what happened with the Holocaust and the warped version of history about WWII is no different to what is going on today. Revisionist history is doing exactly what everyone here is trying to do with 911 and 7/7 .... get to the bottom of the truth, through excellent research of facts, documents and physical evidence that when reviewed, is impossible to ignore. But the most important goal we are all trying to accomplish is to have the power to write the history book that will show the truth, and not the lie. The simple fact is that to ignore revisionism, is to undermine 911 truth, and if we do either we are doomed. If people could just wrap that thought around their infected minds, we might get somewhere. But they can't, it's too much for too many. And the moles and skunks everywhere pushing people in the wrong direction, instilling fear, uncertainty and doubt, brings us closer and closer to our eventual apocalyptic fate.

Here's a great summary book that deep-dives the physical evidence of "The Holocaust" ... just for starters:

Dissecting the Holocaust

Everyone should download it and read it all the way through. Is there enough in that one book to re-open the history books? Without a doubt, and most honest people will come to the same conclusion who spend the time to read it. Some of this evidence is even more compelling than a lot of "evidence" for 911 ... but I digress.

Now, here's the second major point for all the other listeners out there, as again, it would be hopeless to direct this to Dogsmilk and the like. Everyone must understand that it is those researchers, those truthers who have suffered the most, who have the most to say. Those who could only whip off their one or maybe two books (if they're lucky), before being persecuted, financially, mentally, and often physically is where the truth lies. Those who live comfortably, writing pages and pages of misinformation, maybe even sponsored by the CIA/Mossad/M15 (the largest contributor to writers), who will never wind up in the gutter are those who should be questioned for intents and purpose. The David Icke's of this world spinning brutal lies about "the superior race" of humans with reptilian blood coursing through their veins feeding themselves with 4th dimensional energy supplied by 3rd dimensional sacrifices, etc., will never have a black-and blue eye or pocket book from writing such nonsense. At least David Icke is truthful in that there is a "super race" on this planet, but they fart and nonsense like all the rest and live here in the 3rd dimension with the rest of us slobs ... and it is not "the jooos".

Here is an example list of persecuted revisionists (and there are many more). Please read through this list to understand their personal sufferings.

Examples of revisionist abuse.

Why are 1st amendment rights being ignored? Why is habeas corpus rights being tossed in the trash? Who has the power to do this and why? Why is the intelligence web of the planet (CIA, Mossad, M15, CSIS, etc.) actively working in concert with local "law" enforcement to help wisk people away with such views? Is this just for fun, or is there some level of truth to the story these people are telling? Tough questions ... tougher answers. Is there another similar group of "revisionist historians" suffering the same fate? If so, I'd love to be educated as to who they are. Why are the Zionist researchers the only ones who are in constant purgatory? Why them? Why no-one else?

... and people are waking up ....

Now let's move to the topic of "super race", and the "antisemitism" force field that remains at full strength as a result of centuries of this consistent reinforcement of the antisemitic roadblock of the mind. The Book of Revelation with its unlimited references to the occult is where and how this whole thing is said best. The truth outlined in this one book of the bible is extra-ordinary (everyone should get themselves familiar with the occult and then read this book ... it's incredible when drawn to the parallels of today). The roots of the entire mess originates from "The Synagogue of Satan, or those who claim to be Jews, but are not and do lie". It is the elite of the jewish elite. The creme of the crop, the top of the top, that is orchastrating the entire thing. 99.99% of all "jooos" don't have a clue either, and most of them are used and abused like all the other "gentiles" of the globe, for political purposes. But it is within this elite power group who claim to be Jewish, but are not and do lie, where the money and power lies, through finance and their links to front-men within the deepest ranks of Freemasonry and Secret Societies. Unfortunately it is "the joos" who are related to those who have the power, and that is where the ultimate challenge lies. A list of books I'm sure Dogsmilk and others will recognize immediately and cut down as per plan are ....

Pawns in the Game by William Guy Carr
SATAN, Prince of This World , by William Guy Carr
The nameless war, by A. H. M Ramsay
Six-Pointed Star: Its Origin and Usage by O. J. Graham
Freemasonry and Judaism: Secret Powers Behind Revolution by Vicomte Leon De Poncins
Freemasonry and the Vatican: A Struggle for Recognition by Leon De Poncins and Vicomte
Secret Societies and Subversive Movements by Nesta H Webster
[url]Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare[/url] by Michael A Hoffman
Blood on the Altar: The Secret History of the World's Most Dangerous Secret Society by Craig Heimbichner
Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years (Pluto Middle Eastern Studies) by Israel Shahak
Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy by Michael Collins Piper
The High Priests of War by Michael Collins Piper
The New Jerusalem (Zionist Power in America) by Michael Collins Piper
The Synagogue of Satan by Andrew Carrington Hitchcock and Texe Marrs
They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby by Paul Findley
Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts About the U.S.-Israeli Relationship by Paul Findley
The Founding Myths of Modern Israel by Roger Garaudy and Theodore J. Okeefe
The Jews And Modern Capitalism by Werner Sombart and M. Epstein
The Octopus by Elizabeth Kirkpatrick Dilling

And for a great summary of modern day child-abuse, the scariest book of them all, here's

The Franklin Cover-Up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska by John W. Decamp

If you spend the time to read them, the pattern emerges clearly. In fact, you've also got some "Jewish" writers bragging and providing even further evidence of the "Jewish" elite structure and its influence in society ... not all "the jooos", just the elites or those who claim to be Jews, but are not and do lie (fine line, which is why this is such a challenge for people). Like this one:

The Jewish Century by Yuri Slezkine

... and there's many more ...

Those who financed Lenin/Stalin, Mao and the Nazi's are all the same, and the reasons are similar. Drive the world to the final "end-game", while making a fortune on everyone's suffering. It's old school. The final "end-game", is the Gulag of the world with an all encompassing world government. The Gulag of Russia and China are important because they are the largest, scariest, and funded by the most scrupulous bunch, and will be the model of the future, not modeled by Hitler's National Socialists. Why? Well here's the real kicker ....

There is a major philosophical difference with Hitler. He was a tool like all the others, no doubt, but Hitler was on to something very profound. And what he was onto, was something that needed to be squashed and stamped out with the force of Zeus's thunderbolt to be erased from people's minds forever ... and he was a pawn to satisfy that goal, and he did it very well. What Hitler was onto, had a lot more to do with state and economy, rather than Aryans versus Jews. And the only way to understand what those key messages are is to read his own words and other similar economists now fighting globalization, right from the horses mouth. If you blindly trumpet Mein Kampf as an evil book about race without reading it, you are doing a disservice to everyone who is concerned about the current state of affairs in the western world, are a liar, and are missing very key elements of the messages around economy and state. Of course you need to find a good translation, and not an abridged or poorly translated or slanted version, but here's a basic summary:

The good points:
- He was a student of history more so than anyone on this forum and understood the important parts of "why" and "how" of those events.
- He was against globalization, international finance, and corporate conglomerates.
- He was concerned about the capital stock exchange influences on state.
- He believed in local economy and was against government debt structures.
- He recognized the mind-boggling power to manipulate the masses through the media and and who owned and financed it.
- He had a genuine concern about the future of his nation and "his" people (rightly or wrongly on this race "issue", he really did care about taking care of his people, and that leadership quality was recognized).
- He wanted to warn the world and generate alliances in a type of global "republic" to defend against democratic socialism, communism, and world Gulag, the exact path we're all headed for today.

The bad points:
- He believed the Aryan race was superior, they are not.
- He believed all the "jooos" were bad, they are not.
- He had a strong military background and believed in forced expansion in cases where alliances could not be met or boundaries were wrongfully imposed, bad idea.

In the end, he fell into the same power trap and manipulations, using techniques on society that he admonished and spoke against in Mein Kampf. He became a victim of his own success. But he was bang on when it came to describing the coming NWO ... "Whoooaah, that's weird, why is weareallone saying Hitler was a defender against the NWO?".

Here's the real kicker I elluded to earlier .... the evils of the modern world and drive to a NWO, were spelled out in Mein Kampf as clear as day. In 1927, he spells it all out in as plainly translated German as I've read in English. Corporatism, globalism, world banks and world laws, masonry, secret societies and the puppets in parliamentary governments. Hitler knew, as all good students of politics do, that democracy is none other than "Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner". The line between democracy and communism/socialism is almost non-existent, and the dangers are equal. As a result, he saw what was coming, and he was dreadfully fearful of the times we are currently living (yup, the very same NWO). National Socialism was all about local economy and local state (in addition to race, unfortunately). Keep the money local and honest and stimulate local skills and industry. Keep international finance, debt, usury and fiat out of governments and their corrupting influence, and out of people's lives. Monitor the capital stock exchanges for abuses and influence.

And now, when anyone starts discussing the political and economical portions of Mein Kampf or "National Socialism" in that light, they immediately degrade to the issue of race (which was a smaller portion of the book than state and economy). When someone starts discussing "local economy", or "economy and state", in their own spheres of influence outside of WWII, the moles and skunks of the world plant doubts by making parallels to "National Socialism" in Germany, degrade the discussion to race (which is not the important points when discussing economy and state), are labeled an "evil Nazi lover" and the discussion goes down the toilet. For anyone to say they hate "National Socialism" because of the race issue (which I agree with everyone, distinguishing race is bad), is to throw away all the other aspects of Nationalism in Germany such as defending against globalization, bolshevism, communism, fascism, corporatism, international finance, their ties to the media and parliamentary government, and most importantly their ability to drive nations towards a world government.

Of course the Nazi's were not a bunch of angels, no-one is saying they were. What I'm proposing people research is that at a very high-level, the non-racial theories are relevant and important. Globalism, corporatism, government debt, and secret societies, and drive to world government are bad bad bad. Hmmmmm .... that's interesting that Hitler would say such things, because that's what we're all hopefully saying today, and what is really behind 911 and 7/7. That's the royal mind f--k, that people can't get around, that Hitler may have been onto something. And that is why we march to our doom.

Hitler was looking for aliances with Britain, France and even the US. He was trying to get other countries to recognize the dangers of the capital stock exchanges and international finance that have influenced the political spheres of their own nations. Chamberlain was more sympathetic to Hitler and therefore the British press labeled Chamberlain a "lame duck", and called the war a "lame duck war" and not co-incidentally, people were manipulated to vote in Churchill, and the entire WWII landscape changed. Hitler badly under-estimated the global power forces of the "Synagogue of Satan" deep within the power structures of the western world. He thought he could get an alliance, but was a pawn of war like all the others, for greed and profit. But most importantly, he was used to erect the ever-present force field of "antisemitism", never to be brought down again. And as they say .... the rest is history.

The millions who died in WWII cannot be blamed solely on Hitler ... do you need to re-watch the Zeitgeist movie for clues of how wars really work? Do you need another dose of reality on money and wars? Both sides are funded. Strategic posts and locations that could have been knocked out were not, but delayed. Key supplies and troops were held back by the Allies to pro-long the war as much as possible. Mindless battles were fought / lost / re-fought, all for profit. Death upon death was as a result of the western powers within the military of the Allies to extend this. Just see how badly Paton was reprimanded for being as successful as he was. He could've ended the thing even sooner, but was ordered to halt. The evidence is there for all to see. This is the purpose of the war, greed and profit, and Hitler was just a pawn. The allies should equally be blamed for all those deaths. People need to wake-up. But they can't because antisemitism fears blinds and fogs the entire picture.

Regarding Hollywood and Russia and China, Hollywood has never pushed the realities of what really happened in Russia when Lenin took over .... if they did, it would make even the official story of the Holocaust look like a tropical island. If they compared that with the revisionist version of "the Holocaust", then it would make it look like Shangri-La. And the Hollywood output on the abuses of China are also non-existent (only 50million dead, but who cares, China's our trading partner so shut the f--k up). People say the Nazi train rides were bad, well ok, if you say so. To compare, read "Gulag Archipelago" to get an idea of how bad is bad during the time of Lenin/Stalin ... you have no idea.

The Gulag Archipelago: 1918-1956 by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Are people outside the sphere of these rinky-dinky forums ready to debate these issues, publicly, in non-confrontational, non-violent means, without fear? Are people ready to evolve to the next level, and shed the smelly yoke that infests their minds and thoughts? Nope. Will the right people ever be put in front of a jury and justice served? Will the right laws ever get passed to avoid this in the future (e.g. Government debt is illegal [state/local/federal], Corporate contributions to political candidates are illegal, Special interest group contributions to political candidates are illegal, Disobeying the Constitution is illegal and punishable to the full extent of the law). No, because progress in the field of truth never comes. Because people like dogsmilk are out there pushing the illusions, and pointing people in the wrong direction, and step-by-step, day-by-day, we march towards the grand-finale of our complete enslavement.

Someone like me doesn't walk into a forum choosing a name such as "weareallone", to then spew white supremacist ideals ... and I am not. Here's my suggested action plan for all the other "antisemites" out there, or alternatively those who are trying to root-out the "antisemites" and drooling over the chance to respond to this post.

Everyone should burn a bunch of copies of this movie, go down to their local Synagogue and pass it around. Then, stand up and yell "group hug, group hug", give everyone a big kiss, smile, and say "we are all in this together". Explain that the ills of society affect the Jews just as much as it does you and me (if you're not Jewish). Explain how Cancer in them can be won today and is now ancient history, yet everyone still suffers (like them) for profit. Explain how drugs in their society are proliferated and pushed on them for profit and social manipulation, like everyone else. Explain how drugs are narcotics are directly tied to the profit surrounding AIDs. Explain how inflation is obliterating their life savings like ours by transferring wealth to the few. And finally stress the key points home that "we are all in this together". We either grow-up, "evolve or perish", or we are dead-meat, and hopelessly doomed as history teaches. All of us.

Cancer
World Without Cancer: The Story of Vitamin B17 by G. Edward Griffin
Alive & Well: One Doctor's Experience With Nutrition in the Treatment of Cancer Patients by Philip E. Binzel

AIDS
Inventing the AIDS Virus by Peter Deusberg
AIDS Inc.: Scandal of the Century by Jon Rappoport

Drugs
Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion by Gary Webb
The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade by Alfred W. McCoy
Cocaine Politics: Drugs, Armies, and the CIA in Central America, Updated edition by Peter Dale Scott and Jonathan Marshall
Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras & the Drug War by Celerino, III Castillo and Dave Harmon

Every single Jewish person I know is an equally concerned citizen of global affairs, and issues in society. They are the "jooos" we love, and I love them all. It is those who "call themselves Jews, but are not and do lie", the criminals, liars, pranksters, hustlers, scoundrels, murderers and thieves, that we need behind bars. But do we have the courage to drill down and get to that level? Again, I fear not. The moles and skunks are doing a damn good job of pushing people away from "them", and the antisemitism force field remains at the full strength of 10.

In the end, it is this consistent fear that is the enemy. Fear of revisionism, fear of "anti-semitism", and fear of discussing alternate truths, that is the ultimate enemy. We can only win this when we remove this fear. At that point ....weareallone.

That's why I thought the zeitgeist movie was pure dynamite. Pass it around and spread the word. Erase the fear and what's left is freedom. And hopefully people will research, draw on some courage to read the right book or two, and then come to the very same honest and humble conclusions many people in this world are slowly turning around to.

And please remember, when trying to understand a post like this one .... that wearallone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the links weareallone, particularly http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html
I had no idea so many people had tried to put forward a different account of history, or how much they suffered. So many of them Jews themselves as well. The mainstream media do a horribly efficient job at perpetuating lies. As someone who is waking up to so many things after the realization of the truth of 9/11 I am grateful that there are alternative views I can read and decide for myself what to believe.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: do not forget ... weareallone Reply with quote

weareallone wrote:


There is a major philosophical difference with Hitler. He was a tool like all the others, no doubt, but Hitler was on to something very profound.

The good points:
- He was a student of history more so than anyone on this forum and understood the important parts of "why" and "how" of those events.
- He was against globalization, international finance, and corporate conglomerates.
- He was concerned about the capital stock exchange influences on state.
- He believed in local economy and was against government debt structures.
- He recognized the mind-boggling power to manipulate the masses through the media and and who owned and financed it.
- He had a genuine concern about the future of his nation and "his" people (rightly or wrongly on this race "issue", he really did care about taking care of his people, and that leadership quality was recognized).
- He wanted to warn the world and generate alliances in a type of global "republic" to defend against democratic socialism, communism, and world Gulag, the exact path we're all headed for today.

The bad points:
- He believed the Aryan race was superior, they are not.
- He believed all the "jooos" were bad, they are not.
- He had a strong military background and believed in forced expansion in cases where alliances could not be met or boundaries were wrongfully imposed, bad idea.

In the end, he fell into the same power trap and manipulations, using techniques on society that he admonished and spoke against in Mein Kampf. He became a victim of his own success. But he was bang on when it came to describing the coming NWO ... "Whoooaah, that's weird, why is weareallone saying Hitler was a defender against the NWO?".

Here's the real kicker I elluded to earlier .... the evils of the modern world and drive to a NWO, were spelled out in Mein Kampf as clear as day. In 1927, he spells it all out in as plainly translated German as I've read in English. Corporatism, globalism, world banks and world laws, masonry, secret societies and the puppets in parliamentary governments. Hitler knew, as all good students of politics do, that democracy is none other than "Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner". The line between democracy and communism/socialism is almost non-existent, and the dangers are equal. As a result, he saw what was coming, and he was dreadfully fearful of the times we are currently living (yup, the very same NWO). National Socialism was all about local economy and local state (in addition to race, unfortunately). Keep the money local and honest and stimulate local skills and industry. Keep international finance, debt, usury and fiat out of governments and their corrupting influence, and out of people's lives. Monitor the capital stock exchanges for abuses and influence.



Someone who uses Hitler and various other books which are actually good and say something in the same breadth is either trying to restore Hitler from the dead or trying to denigrate the books posted eg the ones on Aids and the ones on the Holocaust.

Hitler was funded by the German army was on its payroll and gave lectures against communism after the Versailles Treaty. The army was split and so was German big business, much in the same way that the USA is today over the debacle on Iraq. The emphasis of Hitler on finance was only done so as to win over votes from the strong Communist Party at the time. It was done in such a manner whereas he appeared to be against finance but in reality was financed, promoted and elevated by finance and the old establishment.

Mein Kampf is as unreadable as Salmans Rushdies the Satanic Verses. Now when you appear on a site a few posts in all call almost all agents and at the same time try to rehabilitate Hitlers 'economic' doctrines (what were they?) then the question arises what game are YOU playing?

German economic policy was just rearmament for a world war. Nothing more nothing less. They did deals with every big US corporation and lived off US loans as the Yanks at the time didn't seek the unification of Europe under one power (either France or Britain so they propped up Germany as much as they could).
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus, how do you people get the time to write such enormous posts?

Quote:
1) You are an agent of the intelligence agencies or their partner the ADL or an offshoot (these moles do exist are are active everywhere on these forums) who have infiltrated this and other forums to swarm the "antisemites",
2) Jewish and therefore biased from the beginning, or,
3) Delusional and really do believe the lies and spin of the mass media who have manipulated your mind.


See, this is straight off going barking up the wrong tree.

I don't have an 'agenda'. I'm not an 'agent' God it's like having Fred back on the board; "You do not agree with me - you must be an agent!!!!!". Yeah -I've been posting here for the last few months just waiting for the Holocaust to come up. I'm a 'sleeper'.
If I were an agent, my posts on the subject would be way better as I'd really research them thoroughly.
I'm not delusional - I'm supervised in my job by a clinical psychologist and I reckon she'd have noticed by now if I was, and I don't believe the mass media on many things. Ironically, your apparent conviction that people who disagree with you are likely to be 'agents' is a possible indicator of paranoia or grandiose ideas.
My views on the holocaust are based on Chris Browning, Robert Jan Van Pelt, Raul Hilberg et al. They're not the mass media. I haven't even heard of most of the books you list - sorry.
The first one - I well know Garry Webb, Alfred McCoy, Peter dale Scott - The Politics of Heroin in particular is a cracker - how it supports your thesis I don't know. McCoy far from postulates some enormous global cabal that controls everything and has for decades. Neither do the others.
Racial/Eugenic theory thoroughly permeated Nazi Germany. To say "I don't like that bit" but concentrate on Hitler not liking international finance s a bit weak. You make it sound like race laws and exterminating the 'inferior' are some kind of obscure footnote to history (and before you cry 'holohoax', tell me about how T4 didn't happen. There's a surprising dearth of 'revisionism' about that little episode. I know Ernst Zunzel approves of it, but I don't know about the others). Marx didn't like international finance or corporatism. Neither did a whole gaggle of anarchist theorists. It's hardly some novel idea.
And one minute people are banging on about how Hitler hated evil corporatism, and the next how 'international financiers' backed him to the hilt and how (correctly IMO) Western corporations actively supported him, including during the war
Ideas of an international Jewish conspiracy way preceded him.Neither is the way in which the masses are manipulated by the media original. His concern about 'his people' is inextricably linked with his notion their superiority and 'destiny'. In exactly the same way, you can find Lenin saying things that sound kinda cool - he was ostensibly against all the problems of capitalism. I don't buy into that guy either. Oh but he was 'backed' too - except Hitler was 'on to something' and he wasn't. Hitler was a poor misunderstood pawn, but communism is evil. Why? because its led to millions of deaths. The deaths precipitated by the Nazis were just a bit of a mistake. The 'excesses' of communism are a disgrace, the 'excesses' of nazism are regrettable but exaggerated. And nobody ever says anything bad about that, except all that stuff I grew up with in the cold war about the Godless commies.
If you want a nice account of the trains, see e.g. p27-30 of Brownings ordinary men. I've posted it here before. Fischman gives his report of a jolly train ride where 2000 out of 9000 Jews were DOA.
You won't evolve to the next level by getting antsy about one set of tinpot dictators and whitewashing another. I say another - where do Mussolini and Franco fit into all this?

Saying not buying revisionism undermines 911 truth is absurd. Some people believe in revisionism but do not believe 911 was an inside job. People have differert ideas.

I agree WWII wasn't solely about Hitler - that's very simplistic - you can't attribute world events to one person. You're also right about China - we criticise official enemies and not official allies. If we had allied with Hitler he would have been guilty of some "unfortunate human rights violations".

As far as I'm concerned, you don't even need to find some arcane hidden elite. The mechanisms of modern capitalism are right in front of you. Blatantly. If one elite wasn't running it, another would be. You decry Ickes lizards but say basically the same thing - it's 'them'. 'They' are people. They could be you. 'They' are not special, not unusually evil, not intrinsically different from you and me. If you had that power, there is a very good chance you'd act in exactly the same way. Letting anyone have too much power is a bad idea. Letting fictional persons like corporations that exist solely to create money for themselves be a central plank of our society is also a bad idea.
I have no fear of revisionism, anti-semitism, or 'alternative truths'. But I'll say if I don't agree with something. And you then say people are agents. I'd never suggest you're an agent of the far right - I don't care who you are. You're just someone on some forum. I have no fear regarding that either.

Sorry not replied to you BC. Still, round in circles we go, eh? Heh.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has gone strange.

Anyone against historical revisionism is against 911 truth! WTF??? This is nonsense of the first order. Shades of "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists". And which elements of revisionism exactly? There are revisionist histories of many things.. . and their are competing revisionist theories. Come on, weareallone, there is no need to exaggerate or overstate your case. If it is true, let the facts do the talking.

It is bizarre and unjust that Dogsmilk makes cogent, reasoned and well-considered points and yet is attacked. We are all in this together. If you disagree with someone's post, fine. Make your case with reason, logic and evidence and let those do the talking. Let's leave our egos out of this forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The latest version of Zeitgeist is now out. Not much has changed that I can tell except cutting off the intro and changing the sound levels. A resources list is also posted along with a new statement from the maker. Smile


Google search "Nemo+Babylon" to find a game forum discussing this film. 1 poster has a number of points in rebuttal to section 1.

I would post a direct link but my attempt to join the site has resulted in lock out from the forum and the direct thread I wish to reference here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: message from zeitgeist Reply with quote

Peter the creator of Zeitgeist, has the following message.

And again, he is bang on .... weareallone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------

Friends,

The final version of Zeitgeist is now online and can be found here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

The new version has had its intro trimmed to be more generally
accessible; Part 1 has a few corrections and also a few ideas expanded
upon/clarified; Part 2 has been cleaned up graphically with a few
small new points included; Part 3 has had its audio improved, typos
corrected and some other subtle adjustments.

For those of you who have embedded the prior version into web pages or
have uploaded it to You Tube, Please make the update whenever possible.
All the holes in the prior version have been filled .
The old version on Google video will be deleted eventually.

In the past 2 weeks that Zeitgeist has been online it has received
around 250,000 views including its parts. I am very happy with this
response,
and even more happy with the 100s of intelligent, thoughtful and hopeful
emails
I have gotten from people. I appreciate everyone's expressions, input,
suggestions...
and, in a few cases, even apprehension regarding the work.

***

I would like to say one thing in regards to a continual
comment/question I am getting, and that is :

"What do we do now?"

Step One: REALIZE FEAR IS AN ILLUSION
which is a tool perpetuated by religion and the political system to
keep societies under control. Don't worry about "the government
watching you" or any of the general bullying tactics used to keep
people from rising up. Ask questions, get in the way, and don't back
down
in your march to know the truth about EVERYTHING.

The pursuit of true and
the processes of understanding/realization is the only true religion.

As an aside, if you are not familiar with Ed & Elaine Brown who are
currently in a stand off with the authorities due to the Income tax
fraud, you should be.
They have asked for one thing "Show us the law that says we have to
pay the income tax on our wages, and we will pay". The government can't
show the law because there isn't one.
I strongly suggest everyone support the Browns. They are setting a
precedent that needs to be seen and heard nation wide.
***
Step Two: EDUCATE YOURSELF
The mainstream media is the 4th branch of the
US Government and they are going to tow the political line. Granted,
they can't control everyone in their structure, but the major
headlines/features
you see in the major newspapers and on networks have been filtered by
agents of the
corporate/political elite. All major news agencies have top brass
belonging to the Council on Foreign Relations. If you are not familiar
with the history and agenda of the socialist power house known as the
Council on Foreign Relations, I suggest a book called " The Shadows of
Power" by James Perloff.
This group is the hidden arm behind American
Foreign policy and they seek nothing less than the total destruction
of the American Republic and the creation of a socialist system /
world government.
***
Step Three: EDUCATE OTHERS
Create a website/ myspace/ have email lists/call into radio shows, etc.
Don't be afraid to engage people, old and young in this points. Talk
to your family.
Get some of the many DVDs out there on the subjects and copy them and
pass them out.
I, for one, will be at Ground Zero on Sept 11th with the NY 911 Truth
Movement to help educate the public
and 'get in the way' of the media coverage who has almost totally
ignored the work of the movement.

***

Final Point:

The 2 dominant motto's used in the game by those who wish to
manipulate and control is

1) Divide and Conquer
2) Order out of Chaos

-Divide and Conquer-
They try to get people at odds with each other in order to keep
people distracted and to prevent unity.
The duality put forth by religion, exploited by governments, in the
general form of GOOD vs EVIL, is a farce.
There is no good- There is no evil.
There are only degrees of operating "with the current of nature" or
"against the current of nature" and when you understand that
the 'collective consciousness' is no different in structure than your
'personal
consciousness' in that the whole of the species
undergoes social 'conflicts of interest', just as an individual battles
personal 'conflicts of interests'(pertaining to arrogance/
stubbornness/ poor temperaments, etc)
you can understand that the battle against the Elite is a macrocosm
of your own PERSONAL internal battle dealing with your own misguided
feelings of
superiority, arrogance and the like.
Therefor, change in many ways starts with increased self-awareness
and thus the removal of the ego based elitism that we all at one time or
another share.
No one is better then anyone else. Period. We are all the same. We are
also One.


- Order out of Chaos-
This is simple. They create problems, instill unrest, then push
forward their agenda disguised as a change in the best interest of
the public.
911; Katrina; the War on Drugs:; Global Warming; Terrorism in
general, Iraqi insurgents, Immigration, Inflation...
are all used to whatever advantage they can muster up.

The more real or fabricated problems that arise, the faster the elite
can reposition power.
[I.E. After WW1, we had the "League of Nations" .
After WWII, we had the United Nations; After WWIII, we will likely
have a full on One World Government.]

In my opinion, the criminal elements behind the US/UK administration
want nothing less than World War, as it will be the ultimate
"shake up" of things to get their agenda into full swing.

***

I want to thank ALL of you for your interest.

I am working to clean up the final digital
transcript so those of you who offered to translate it into other
languages will have it soon.
For those whose emails I have not answered yet- I will get to them, I
promise.
I will have dvds by request fairly soon.

I will keep everyone posted on things.
thanks again.

Peter J.
"The Revolution Is Now"
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: Revisionism Reply with quote

Craig,

Like I said, 911 truth is all about trying to get the truth into the history books and not the lie. The power to do this, will never come to the 911 truthers if they reject revisionism ... why? because they are siamese twins, joined at the brain. Revisionism of 911 is happening in more-or-less real-time as we speak since it is so new. Unfortunately, the history books already written and being lined up at the printer already contains the lie and the next generation of zombies are going to be "programmed" with the exact slants and biases about 911 we are all trying to expose. Just like what was crammed down the throat of history about the holocaust. And when your old and gray, you and I will still be fighting this useless battle unless we don't evolve and take the next necessary evolutionary steps. Everything you know has been programmed into you. EVERYTHING. Dig deeper, and deeper and deeper until you can dig no more ....

If you can't see the parallels, or the similarities, then please read the "Dissecting Holocaust" book I sent for a start, and maybe then you will start to recognize the parallels about how bad the history books have been written and slanted .... as they are today about 911, including the lie and not the truth.... and most importantly understand why, who's agenda is being met by this and the past? Qui bono?

Good luck and remember .... weareallone.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: message from zeitgeist Reply with quote

mumbo-jumbo

Watched a tiny bit of this film before getting a massive poseur alert, there's nothing new about the idea "we are all one". Who funds this stuff while millions of children starve?
Zeitgeist is a fart of a word, a pre-packaged concept which pretentious lefties and liberals lap up after it has been subliminally force-fed to them by the media.
And anyway we spend too much time gassing and spectating and not enough acting - I'm off!

weareallone wrote:
Peter the creator of Zeitgeist, has the following message.
And again, he is bang on .... weareallone.

_________________
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www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
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www.stj911.org
www.l911t.com
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: Revisionism Reply with quote

Dogsmilk,

As I've been saying, I never agreed with the methods of Hitler or the Nazi's, but to understand you need to study what they were about, and their philosophies (get past the race issue, because it's no different that Bosnia/Serbia or Rawanda ... so just ignore that for a moment) and see the bigger picture. And what is interesting is that Hitler was fighting the global oppressions that are being built around us today. It's very similar ... but everyone's too blind to see it, and we march to our doom.

If the revisionists are right, then there was no mass extermination (maybe 25-50,000 at the most as mercy killings for the sick/elderly), there were no mass killing in gas chambers or ovens. There were deaths in trains, massive disease, and sickness .... but not on the order of 4-5 million, and not on top of the recognized 1-1.5 by revisionists. This is a drop in the bucket compared to Russia/China.

But this race and extermination aspect of WWII is the only part of it being drilled into everyone's brain on a daily basis. I would think close to 100 million from Russia/China would be much more history worthy and "in your face" ... but it's not, as designed. So why?

The secret societies driving and propagating these and many other lies ... are what is important.

There are plants and skunky moles on all these sites ... it has been shown and documented. If you blindly yell "IHR" creep and then say "blame the joooos" .... one can only come to a single conclusion. You are either delusional, a skunky mole, or really don't have a clue what is being discussed in revisionist history and are blindly tooting someone else's horn. Sorry, no two ways about it.

If you're truly being honest, then you will follow up on this research and discover the truths for yourself ... I can only hope you do and more people like you do as well ... because time is very quickly running out on all of us.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: message from zeitgeist Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
mumbo-jumbo

Watched a tiny bit of this film before getting a massive poseur alert, there's nothing new about the idea "we are all one". Who funds this stuff while millions of children starve?
Zeitgeist is a fart of a word, a pre-packaged concept which pretentious lefties and liberals lap up after it has been subliminally force-fed to them by the media.
And anyway we spend too much time gassing and spectating and not enough acting - I'm off!


And we flush out another member of the zombie-patrol. How can anyone on any 911 truth forum say this movie is bad ?!

You only watched "a tiny bit", and you can say this with an honest face? Wow, people wake up, we just fished out another one.

Man, this movie must be even better than I thought ... and it is, literally that good. Watch it for yourself, and then you be the judge.

For any intellectuals out there "we are all one" sounds leftest, socialistic, and communistic .... but it is not. The duality of "weareallone", is pure individual freedom. When we recognize ourselves, and our relationship with each other and with nature, only then can power swell within all of us, and we become one. At that point our individualism and individualistic freedoms flourish, and we are truly free. This is the message of the movie, for all to see. Any good student of Secret Societies and the occult understands this duality, the power behind and how it is currently used to enslave us all ....

Poor Tony ... you have just been exposed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAAO

I have not seen the full Zeitgeist yet, only part 3. Part 1 I understand is all about debunking religion. Here is what I see so far (and I many change my view once I have seen the full version.

1) Religion destruction is a stated aim of the gang. As such ZG follows this plan.

2) Part 3 puts the blame solely on the US for perping 911

3) The responses to ZG by the - director? - says that the media is 4th arm of US Gov. IMO Media is 5th column run by the elite, not the leaders of any country. Globally they sing in lockstep from the same disgusting hymnbook.

Given your other posts on this area why do you think ZG is 'clean' and not yet another piece of programming?

You see, all the available data suggeste to me the US has been taken over by ZOG agents who are deliberately steering her towards the rocks, as one of the final acts before implementing their techno-gulag.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Zeitgeist is a fart of a word, a pre-packaged concept which pretentious lefties and liberals lap up after it has been subliminally force-fed to them by the media.

If only you had told me earlier I need not have bothered watching it. Now I know it is "a fart of a word" and it makes me a "pretentious leftie" who has been "subliminally force-fed" I will have to change my opinion completely else I may have reached the "wrong" conclusion. I know, - I will watch the first few minutes only then denounce it as a pile of nonsense. That's the intellectual thing to do!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Revisionism Reply with quote

weareallone wrote:
Dogsmilk,

As I've been saying, I never agreed with the methods of Hitler or the Nazi's, but to understand you need to study what they were about, and their philosophies (get past the race issue, because it's no different that Bosnia/Serbia or Rawanda ... so just ignore that for a moment) and see the bigger picture. And what is interesting is that Hitler was fighting the global oppressions that are being built around us today. It's very similar ... but everyone's too blind to see it, and we march to our doom.

If the revisionists are right, then there was no mass extermination (maybe 25-50,000 at the most as mercy killings for the sick/elderly), there were no mass killing in gas chambers or ovens. There were deaths in trains, massive disease, and sickness .... but not on the order of 4-5 million, and not on top of the recognized 1-1.5 by revisionists. This is a drop in the bucket compared to Russia/China.

But this race and extermination aspect of WWII is the only part of it being drilled into everyone's brain on a daily basis. I would think close to 100 million from Russia/China would be much more history worthy and "in your face" ... but it's not, as designed. So why?

The secret societies driving and propagating these and many other lies ... are what is important.

There are plants and skunky moles on all these sites ... it has been shown and documented. If you blindly yell "IHR" creep and then say "blame the joooos" .... one can only come to a single conclusion. You are either delusional, a skunky mole, or really don't have a clue what is being discussed in revisionist history and are blindly tooting someone else's horn. Sorry, no two ways about it.

If you're truly being honest, then you will follow up on this research and discover the truths for yourself ... I can only hope you do and more people like you do as well ... because time is very quickly running out on all of us.


There is simply zero evidence Hitler was fighting 'global oppressions'. You appear to be suggesting that the formation of a totalitarian state, deeply permeated by racial ideologies and scant regard for the rights of the individual beyond the demands of the state was 'fighting oppression'. You really may as well say the Bolsheviks were "fighting oppression" by ostensibly attempting to emancipate the workers from capitalist oppression. Where do you see a difference? But your reference to "mercy killings" makes it even more astonishing. You label gassing (and other methods) disabled and mentally ill people as "mercy killing"?!!! Maybe all those psychiatric patients I've worked with over the years would have been better off dead, eh? Fortunatly, the ordinary German population did not share your callousness and when they got wind of their relatives being murdered kicked up a bit of a fuss. They failed to realise how their relatives being secretly killed (then lies told to them about the cause of death) was a "mercy". And lets not forget the compulsary sterilisations...(though the Yanks and others have played that game too before now).
But not just in Germany....

Quote:
Between 29 September and 1 November 1939...special Einsatzgruppen squads shot 3,700 patients in asylums in the region of Bromberg, Poland. And between December 1939 and January 1940, special SS units gassed 1,558 patients from Polish asylums in specially adapted gas vans in order to make room for anticipated wartime casulaties and military barracks. By 1945 as many as 750,000 people with disabilities had been mudered by the Nazi regime


Suzanne Evans, Hitler's Forgotten Victims, p.18

You're attempting to say there's something 'profound' about Hitlers mish-mash of unoriginal ideas. You seem to be saying he was trying to 'save' the German people by doing away with any kind representative government and bombarding them with propaganda from Goebbels. Mind you, I wonder if you'd actually like stuff like the 1941 film 'I accuse' that helped program the Germans to accept 'euthanasia' by portraying a husband's struggle to come to terms with how killing his wife who had MS was the right thing to do, encountering a now grown up severly deformed child he'd saved at birth along the way (the message being they'd have been better off dead). This stuff was very different to modern 'right to die' arguments. This was 'they should be dead'.
Anyway, if you tried to argue the Soviets were 'justified' or that they didn't actually kill many people, I'd argue with you on that. Trying to say 'the Russians were worse' is just trying to shift the emphasis. Harold Shipman killed more people than Jack the Ripper, but I don't think that makes 'Saucy Jack' any more of a nice guy.

If you want to 'revise' the holocaust, go ahead. You might want to consider the 'gassing cellar' referred to in the Auschwitz documents. You might want to consider why Bischoff was supplying them with crematoria that could supposedly dispose of 4756 people per 24 hours (one hell of a typhus epidemic they were anticipating there). You might want to consider Goebbels diary, that at least David Cole was honest enough to admit he couldn't exlain away -

Quote:
As an example, I'll point specifically to Faurisson's response to
David Irving's "Journal of Historical Review" essay/conference speech
on the Goebbels diary, appearing in the letters section of the
current "Journal of Historical Review" (March/April '95). Faurisson
quotes from the March 27, 1942 Goebbels diary entry, and then writes
"In itself, this last sentence ("Broadly speaking, one can probably
say that 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated, while only 40
percent can be put to work" - Goebbels) tends to show that the Reich
Minister of Propaganda did not know for sure that there was a German
policy to physically exterminate the Jews, either totally or in
part."

"IN PART?" What does he think Goebbels is referring to, if not a
liquidation IN PART. Faurisson is pulling an old "exterminationist"
trick here by quoting a passage and then TELLING us what we've just
read, hoping we won't notice any incongruity between the passage and
Faurisson's explanation. Faurisson is quoting a passage that speaks
of exterminations in part - AT LEAST in part, and then he TELLS us
that we in fact HAVEN'T just read what we've read - with no
explanation given to clarify why Goebbels isn't actually saying what
he so clearly seems to be saying. I think Faurisson has grown too
used to having his word taken as gospel. Naked emperors don't only
exist on the "exterminationist" side. Faurisson's description of the
March 27 Goebbels diary entry reminds me of page 120 of dear old Mel
Mermelstein's book, where he shows a picture of Krema 1 and writes in
the caption "note the pipes and shower heads above").

The importance (to me of this Goebbels diary passage is that for the
first time we have a reliable piece of evidence which points to a
plan of separation between those Jews fit for "labor" and the rest,
who "have to be liquidated." Hate it though some of us may, this fits
the "exterminationist" model much better than it does the revisionist
one. If revisionists wish to explain this passage some other way,
they'll have to do better than the explanation offered by Faurisson.
For myself, I can say that the meaning of this Goebbels diary
passage, IN RELATION to events occurring at that time, has yet to be
adequately explained by any revisionist.



http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/c/cole.david/cole-vs-faurisson-str uthof

Mind you, that was ages ago, so I'm sure there's plenty of creative 'explanations' now.
And what on earth might Himmler possibly be referring to here? -

http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/himmler-poznan-small.m ov

However, I really do try to avoid 'Holocaust evidence wars'. It's pointless and, contrary to what you say, is an enormous distraction on a 911 site.
I just find it weird e.g. how hundreds of eyewitness testimonies broadly converge to a pretty clear picture, yet they're all mistaken or manufactured. Why the likes of Franz Stangl were talking explicitly about what happened while an old man in prison for life. Why his wife in Brazil never contradicted it, even after his death. Revisionists pick at testimony, yet accept a single source that Hoss was beaten as evidence that his confession was not only tortured out of him, the enormous quantity of things he said were manufactured. Albert Speer didn't let on at how much he knew until years after the war. But it's up to you. I don't want to waste my time trawling through books to score points on a forum. Particularly with hard-bitten, see-through-all-the-agendas cynics that nevertheless consistently refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that the Holocaust being a lie serves a certain political agenda itself.

However, Craig W made a very good point that there are numerous 'revisionisms' I believe plenty of other revisionism myself. I think Holocaust revisionism should get on with it. It personally bugs me a bit, but that's my problem. I acknowledge their are numerous kinds, and I think some revisions of WWII are important (David Irving actually did a service drawing attention to Dresden).
You pretend to be all enlightened but can't get your head round people having different views of history based on their own interpretation of the evidence. I don't think you're delusional. I don't think you're an agent. I believe you are incorrect. No more than that. If you think that an agent is specifically employed to undermine your wonderful arguments on a thread that at time of writing has had (spooky! 911 views when I just looked! how mad is that!) 911 views, I seriously question your logic. If you can't get your head round people having differing opinions without being 'deluded', I pity you. Mind you, not accepting people disagreeing with your reality was a key element of Nazism. That's another reason why this ban on holocaust denial is so farcical.
Hitler did blame the Jews. Repeatedly and explicitly. He did not just target the 'secret puppetmasters', he targeted the Jews as a group. For some reason, you're just trying to wilfully ignore the overwhelming grim totalitarian bullsh!t they were into on the flimsy grounds Hitler apparently meant well.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a wise-cracking, bucking-authority-but-getting-the-job-done new partner to break in before I'm off shilling about Communist Jew knitting patterns on the Womans Weekly forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a fair post there Dogs. The Himmler audio is interesting - if that was not faked it certainly seems to shoot down any notion that the Nazis were looking after the welfare of the Jews.

It seems quite likely that nasty things did go on in Hitler's Germany. Otherwise why would the likes of Prescott Bush have bankrolled him? (Trading with the enemy 1942) I read that Joe Kennedy did the same - anyone got more good info on this BTW?

More to the point perhaps is how the story has been embellished, sustained, milked, while much larger genocides are being ignored.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Revisionism Reply with quote

weareallone wrote:
Dogsmilk,

As I've been saying, I never agreed with the methods of Hitler or the Nazi's, but to understand you need to study what they were about, and their philosophies (get past the race issue, because it's no different that Bosnia/Serbia or Rawanda ... so just ignore that for a moment) and see the bigger picture. And what is interesting is that Hitler was fighting the global oppressions that are being built around us today. It's very similar ... but everyone's too blind to see it, and we march to our doom.

If the revisionists are right, then there was no mass extermination (maybe 25-50,000 at the most as mercy killings for the sick/elderly), there were no mass killing in gas chambers or ovens. There were deaths in trains, massive disease, and sickness .... but not on the order of 4-5 million, and not on top of the recognized 1-1.5 by revisionists. This is a drop in the bucket compared to Russia/China.

But this race and extermination aspect of WWII is the only part of it being drilled into everyone's brain on a daily basis. I would think close to 100 million from Russia/China would be much more history worthy and "in your face" ... but it's not, as designed. So why?

The secret societies driving and propagating these and many other lies ... are what is important.

There are plants and skunky moles on all these sites ... it has been shown and documented. If you blindly yell "IHR" creep and then say "blame the joooos" .... one can only come to a single conclusion. You are either delusional, a skunky mole, or really don't have a clue what is being discussed in revisionist history and are blindly tooting someone else's horn. Sorry, no two ways about it.

If you're truly being honest, then you will follow up on this research and discover the truths for yourself ... I can only hope you do and more people like you do as well ... because time is very quickly running out on all of us.


You're losing me here

If Hitler was so into fighting global oppression and exposing the truth why did he allow his war machine to funded by the very forces you argue he was opposing: the secret societies, the zionist elites, the war financiers? Why did he allow his stormtroopers to attack all jews indiscriminately? IMO your revisionism is utter nonsense and deeply offensive.

WWII has many lessons to teach us and many parallels to today's 'war on terror' but I believe I have heard enough. You ask us to look beyond Hitler's racism, I don't want to see beyond the race thing. I don't want to see beyond his methods. That tells me everything I need to know about the man and those who are his apologists. To me it is fundamental. Hitler was a racist, he promoted hatred and was directly responsible for the murder of millions of people. That you want to quibble about exactly how many is irrelevant.

The true lessons of WWII are the same lessons of so many other wars. Hitler was a stooge of the PTB. The PTB played both sides as they are doing today. There are many teachers from history that can show us a better way. Hitler is not one of them.

I've read enough. To me your posts are liable to be deeply offensive to jewish people and all those other communities target by Hitler's madness including the innocent civilians of this country. That alone is enough to result in a ban.

Add to this the lack of respect you are demonstrating to those of us too stupid to get what you are saying or who disagree with you and guess what .............

Bye bye
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: slow off the mark Reply with quote

rodin wrote:
The Himmler audio is interesting - it certainly seems to shoot down any notion that the Nazis were looking after the welfare of the Jews.


Was there ever such a notion? Except amongst shrivel-hearted racist weasels?

The elimination of all people with faith in God, which stands in the way of a diseased dream of a man-god elite ruling the world, is what joins our stuggle today to that of the Jews in 1930s Europe.

If you haven't grasped that yet yerra bit slow off the mark.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our struggle now and then can be summed up as the struggle of all of humanity against fascist psychopaths. Humanity of course includes both those with faith and those without. We need make no distinction. Blessed are the peacemakers regardless of whether they have faith or follow a religion. The one thing that I agree with weareallone is in the concept that we are all one, that we are all in this together and we recognise what unites us and respect even cherish that which makes us different.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My struggle is to find out where the balance of probability lies. One way to do this is to post and argue on forums. Reading websites is a very poor second.

Sources/evidence can be removed or planted. Nothing can be taken for granted. One thing we do know for certain - MSM are in cahoots with truth suppression and propaganda promotion. 911 laid this bare, as did 7/7.

Right now I am not fighting for 'right'. I am fighting for truth.

It seems, for instance, that McCarthy was exonerated by more recent disclosures by CIA and ex-Soviets. I also seems that he was vilified by the press even as his popularity was rising. Quickly brought down to earth and buried under it.

Are these disclosures (more audio evidence) part of the global psyop, or chinks of light inadvertently or carelessy thrown on the system? Certainly it would not seem in the interests of the CIA and KGB to reveal this. Why was this information released?

http://www.darrenweeks.net/documents/mccarthy/acceptedasfact.html

Quote:
By Jon Basil Utley
WorldNetDaily | February 8, 2000
WASHINGTON -- Although Joseph McCarthy was one of the most demonized American politicians of the last century, new information -- including half-century-old FBI recordings of Soviet embassy conversations -- are showing that McCarthy was right in nearly all his accusations.

"With Joe McCarthy it was the losers who've written the history which condemns him," said Dan Flynn, director of Accuracy in Academia's recent national conference on McCarthy, broadcast by C-SPAN.

Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Vanona Intercepts -- FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 -- the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.


Who else had such a network in the US?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html

Quote:
Joe McCarthy had been a Marine air gunner, an amateur boxer, a county judge and towards his end, under constant attack, he began to drink heavily. Herman said he certainly was over his head and his fall came about after sweeping attacks on General Marshall and the Army. Senator Taft and other key supporters began to draw away from him.

If Robert Kennedy, his competent and well-connected co-counsel, had stayed on, McCarthy might have behaved more carefully, said Herman. An argument with other co-counsel Roy Cohn left Cohn in charge, but Cohn and staffer David Schine were disastrous for McCarthy.


Draw your own interim conclusions (my bold).

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say their is a very real case for looking again at the numbers, not because i hate jews. but because we must always be history, and intellectually honest. we should ask why laws are passed to make Holocaust revision illegal. IMHO .

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: message from zeitgeist Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
mumbo-jumbo

Watched a tiny bit of this film before getting a massive poseur alert, there's nothing new about the idea "we are all one". Who funds this stuff while millions of children starve?
Zeitgeist is a fart of a word, a pre-packaged concept which pretentious lefties and liberals lap up after it has been subliminally force-fed to them by the media.
And anyway we spend too much time gassing and spectating and not enough acting - I'm off!

weareallone wrote:
Peter the creator of Zeitgeist, has the following message.
And again, he is bang on .... weareallone.



Hmmmm. I think I might find myself agreeing with Tony somewhat here.
I really can't see the point of all that stuff about Christianity at the beginning. Particularly as much of it strikes me as a big pile of c***. For one thing, I simply cannot get over some vague mention of the council of Nicea and then "oh yeah, then the Papacy was controlling everyone's mind".
O rly? So why spend so much time fannying about as to whether Arianism or Nestorianism or any of the other 'nature of Christ' debates were correct? What about the subsequent decline and fragmentation of Rome? Nice timing for the master plan there! Didn't stop all that civil war, did it? Who, needed mind control with the Huns, Sassanian Persians, Goths, Vandals et al a-knockin' on the door? What was the point? The last thing Rome actually needed to be bothered with at that juncture was some kind of domestic psy op.
What about the great power of Byzantium (for a time) which had its own ideas leading to the split between Rome and Orthodoxy? Europe was nonsense during the dark ages - all these mind controlled catholics were whopping hell out of each other while Islam was emerging as a major power. Nice job, Christian mind engineers! What was the 'plan' there? It just makes no sense. And it can't if you try to sum up hundreds of years of complex history in a couple of trite lines.
If you want to make an argument about institutional religion as a control mechanism, fair enough, but to try to say that Christianity is intrinsically some kind of 'planned' mind control on the part of the 'political establishment' dating back to Nicea, that's just absurd.
Christianity can and does serve as an authoritarian control mechanism - same as any religion, but to argue that recognising God as the ultimate authority is necessarily servile to power means you have to account for stuff like this:

Quote:
...Whether the common people of England may not seize upon the Land which is called after their own name, to wit, the Commons, for to dresse and improve it for their best advantage, for the Reasons following, without paying fines, Quit-rents Heriots, or swearing Fealty, (or any other cursed and diabolicall payments whatsoever) to any Tyrant soever?
first Because the great creator of all things, ordained that the earth, with the fulness thereof should be a common Treaury of Livelihood for all, and that none should Lord over his own kind; but that all should love as Brethren, and so glorifie the Creator in the work of his hands.


Quote:
...it is high time for them (the Common People) to lay hold upon the wast land, that so they may recieve some benefit freely and may no longer live in a starving condition: and this cannot with reason be denyed by the Gentry and Clergy, if they consider what cruelty they have acted towards their fellow-creatures these many years, who have a priviledg to the Earth equall with themselves


Robert Coster, A mite cast into the common treasury, 1649-50 ish

- Christian radicals who took the commons land to work for themselves and stuck two fingers up to authority. Including the self-appointed religious authority. This was God's earth, and they damn well had a equal right to it. Until they got brutally kicked off St George's hill at least. Blind submission to authority is not specifically the domain of religion. Sometimes religion leads to rebellion against earthly authority. Jehovahs Witnesses got put in camps because they refused to recognise Hitler's authority over Jehovahs, while nuff atheists pulled on their jackboots and did the John Cleese funny walk. Respect due for the Jobos there, I say.

Spirit of the age, my arse. Funnily enough, the word Zeitgeist was first popularised by Hegel who directly influenced Marx's dialectical materialism; slightly ironic considering the course the thread went on to take.

Some good stuff too, but nothing new or particularly remarkable - can't personally see why it's such an amazing film. Just be better without all the religion stuff. 'Jesus as Sun God' has been done before, anyway.

Slightly incoherent, rambling post, but this flat-earth "oh yeah two thousand years of complex spiritual ideas is just some mind control operation" annoys me. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it certainly isn't. The world is complex and so are people.
I'm off to listen to John Dunstable - some lovely music we'd never have had without religion, there is.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you deem section 2 and 3 as usable for distribution or even section 3 alone? I appreciate your points on the religious component.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I don't think it matters whether it offers anything new or remarkable, point is, I've seen it and it made me angry. I've shown it to others who in turn have shown it to others, and they have gotten angry.

These people were blissfully unaware of everything that was in the documentary, so if this 'wakes them up' then that's enough for me, and should be enough for you too. If it hits them hard enough they'll do their own research. I don't think this documentary was made with the likes of people on here in mind (i.e. those who are already knowledgeable), it served mainly to make people realise that things in this world aren't as straight forward as our governments would have us believe. And that in itself plants the seed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WyldeChylde wrote:
To be honest, I don't think it matters whether it offers anything new or remarkable, point is, I've seen it and it made me angry. I've shown it to others who in turn have shown it to others, and they have gotten angry.

These people were blissfully unaware of everything that was in the documentary, so if this 'wakes them up' then that's enough for me, and should be enough for you too. If it hits them hard enough they'll do their own research. I don't think this documentary was made with the likes of people on here in mind (i.e. those who are already knowledgeable), it served mainly to make people realise that things in this world aren't as straight forward as our governments would have us believe. And that in itself plants the seed.


Well said WyldeChylde.

Its a great piece of work - be it a bit of a montage, could you imagine something this info-packed 5 years ago? The important thing it does is offer perpective on an otherwise biased view of the world, it knocks the un-suspecting viewer off their fixed perch's and their comfy sofa's.

The guys that are pumping out these movies are doing a great job. Those of us who are familiar with the content of films like this may need to help sow the seeds even if we don't feel much will come of it.

Movies like this are a great asset and they do all the talking in a third party an in direct manner allowing individuals to form an opnion.

All we need to do is tell people the film is out there.

The film is fantastic in my opinion, but thats only because I reasonate with what it is saying and enjoy the way it has been put together. Not everyone is going to feel like me about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input guys. Personally I love it and am stunned at how much it did cram in and well.

I found this interview somewhere (hopefully not here) that backs it up further

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/acharya.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: ZEITGEIST: The Movie Reply with quote



ZEITGEIST: The Movie
CHIMES OF FREEDOM
http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com


Link


Zeitgeist: the general intellectual, moral, and cultural climate of an era


"We have been misled, away from the true and divine presence in the Universe that men have called God. I don't know what God is but I know what he isn't. And unless and until you are prepared to look at the whole truth, wherever it may go, whoever it may lead to ... if you want to look the other way or if you want to play favorites, then somewhere along the line you're going to find out you're messing with divine justice."

Who said this?:

"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

George W. Bush?

No, Adolf Hitler (when announcing the Gestapo to the people) ... same nonsense, different a$$hole.

"By having this war on terrorism, you can never win it. So you can always keep taking people's liberties away. The media can convince everybody that it's real. The goal is to get everybody in this world chipped with an RFID chip. Anyone who protests against us gets their chip switched off."

--Nicholas Rockefeller


"The most incredible aspect of all: these totalitarian elements will not be forced upon the people. The people will demand them. For the social manipulation of society through fear has completely detached humans from their sense of power and reality; a process which has been going on for centuries if not millennia."

"Religion, Patriotism, Race, Wealth, Class and every other form of arbitrary, separatist identification thus conceived has served to create a controlled population, utterly malleable in the hands of the few."

"Divide and Conquer is the motto and as long as people continue to see themselves as separate from everything else they lend themselves to be completely enslaved."

"The men behind the curtain know this and they also know that if people ever realize the truth of their relationship to nature and the truth of their personal power the entire manufactured zeitgeist they prey upon would collapse like a house of cards."


Part One: Religion as a traditional Control System

Part Two: The 'War on Terror' as a contemporary Control System

Part Three: The New World Order, the Ultimate Control Syste
m

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a great film in my view

I've made it in to a DVD playable on anything including a bloody playstation so if anyone in the london wants a copy let me know through this forum or via pm

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any film that strikes at the heart of the beast, i.e. the international banking cartels hiding behind the central banks and the fiat currencies of western nations, is a good film.

This is the device through which the entire political process has been subverted. I believe it is of paramount importance to realize this.

My main concern with the film was that it did not differentiate between the positive moral teachings of the Christian faith and its manipulation by the elites for social control.

Nevertheless, the whole 'historicity of Jesus' issue does not bother me.
I subscribe to the values and the positive teachings of Christian faith and try to live by them. Even if it was Paul who dreamed them up.
I don't need a Messiah doing funky things to love my neighbour.

And in the end, after educating the viewer on 9/11, the banking cartels and the manufactured wars, what does the film advocate?

Brotherhood, understanding of our relationship with nature and the one-ness of things. Overcoming fear. And giving in to love.

That's a good message by any standard.
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