Understanding 911 - Does The Holocaust Matter?

[Usama bin Laden]

Two pupils from every school in England to be sent to Auschwitz in Government-funded visits
ARTHUR MARTIN
...

Quite honestly I am afraid to speak the Truth as I know it regarding "The Holocaust".

"What is truht?" ~ Pilate

[Usama bin Laden]

[TonyGosling]

yes, yes, yes,

Shall I hide this topic now?

I must admit I nearly thought I'd have had to go out to the all day garage to stock up on some more Elastoplast in an attempt to staunch my bleeding heart, due to the travails of the brave free thinking unshackled upholders of free speech in merely speaking your minds.

Never mind that your professed viewpoint springs from your self-adopted, and possibly spurious, theory that the current day Israeli government apparently 'uses' the history of 60 years ago to somehow fully justify their present day murderous and oppressive apartheid policies.

Never mind that Israel is so obviously that it doesn't need stating, a client state that, like we inhabitants of Airstrip One, should in reality think of itself as Beachhead One.

Never mind that massacres and pogroms against the Jewish people have happened continuously, if sporadically, at least since York in the Twelfth Century and throughout Europe until modern times, and that up until recently the name 'jew' ran a close second to 'nigger' in the western lexicon.

Never mind that most of the so-called 'evidence' for your views come from sites so tainted by right wing groups, 'allegedly' in denial, yet still so poisonous that they'd show up on a switched off geiger counter.

Never mind that not never, no how, is Joe Public ever going to say or even think, on the strength of your convictions, in lieu of your lack of convincing evidence, - 'Oh the Holocaust wasn't as bad as we were told - maybe that Israeli Government's having us on when they say they're historically justified in treating the native Arab population as sub-human'.

I have to say that while your aims might (but only might) be well meaning, your tactics are nonsense. And stink worse.

[Usama bin Laden]

"People tend to fear what they do not understand." ~ Jimmy Page

[brian]

yes, yes, yes,

Shall I hide this topic now?

I must admit I nearly thought I'd have had to go out to the all day garage to stock up on some more Elastoplast in an attempt to staunch my bleeding heart, due to the travails of the brave free thinking unshackled upholders of free speech in merely speaking your minds.

Never mind that your professed viewpoint springs from your self-adopted, and possibly spurious, theory that the current day Israeli government apparently 'uses' the history of 60 years ago to somehow fully justify their present day murderous and oppressive apartheid policies.

Never mind that Israel is so obviously that it doesn't need stating, a client state that, like we inhabitants of Airstrip One, should in reality think of itself as Beachhead One.

Never mind that massacres and pogroms against the Jewish people have happened continuously, if sporadically, at least since York in the Twelfth Century and throughout Europe until modern times, and that up until recently the name 'jew' ran a close second to 'nigger' in the western lexicon.

Never mind that most of the so-called 'evidence' for your views come from sites so tainted by right wing groups, 'allegedly' in denial, yet still so poisonous that they'd show up on a switched off geiger counter.

Never mind that not never, no how, is Joe Public ever going to say or even think, on the strength of your convictions, in lieu of your lack of convincing evidence, - 'Oh the Holocaust wasn't as bad as we were told - maybe that Israeli Government's having us on when they say they're historically justified in treating the native Arab population as sub-human'.

I have to say that while your aims might (but only might) be well meaning, your tactics are nonsense. And stink worse.

You have the power apparently so why not abuse it eh?

Or you could offer up that evidence you mentioned but failed to disclose when asked.

[Dogsmilk]

Give it a rest Brian. You carped on about 'evidence' for pages and when I started to raise stuff you basically just ignored it (except for chucking in an argument from incredulity based 'debunking' from notorious pro-Nazi tugboat Ingrid Weckert. If this thread teaches us anything, it's that you don't half have an affinity for Nazis).

You haven't even outlined what unique epistemological conditions are satisfactory to you for this little segment of history beyond some half arsed straw man about "pre-planned" extermination.
I've said it before and I'll said it again - if you're that arsed, why don't you take it up with some forum where there is actual historical expertise? The reason is you'd look even sadder than you do here against people who don't know the subject very well and you know it.
The blunt truth is Holocaust denial failed some time ago (mainly because it's total *) and needs to try to hang on to someone else's movement, recycling the same stuff over and over again.

If Tony does close the thread he'll be hit with much wailing and gnashing of teeth from team c*** talk. However, theirs is the satisfaction of the martyr. It is a confirmation that they must be right because their tripe has provoked a reaction. Killtown gets his rocks off on this stuff all the time. Tony is doing you all a favour.

If it's that much of a concern for people, might I suggest one of you takes the initiative and uses some of that free forum software I understand is easily accessible to start a "911 and the Holocaust" forum of your very own! There is simply nothing stopping you doing this. There are at least about 10 people who would join straight away and considering you feel so fervently the truth is on your side you should feel convinced it will be a hit.
And I have to admit, despite how distasteful this pissing on the dead Nazi stuff is, I do think it would be f*cking hilarious to lurk in. Better than CODOH which is pretty boring and predictable.

Btw. On a unrelated note, I'd just like to put out a nuff respect to that Jewish fella that apparently owns the domain. Given at times it must have been a bit like a black guy having a forum the KKK regularly post on, I'd like to express my admiration for his apparent high level of tolerance.

[TonyGosling]

UN-HIDDEN

[TonyGosling]

FOR DISCUSSION ONLY

Argument Boils About Numbers Of Auschwitz Dead
The Numbers Drop - The Controversy Continues
It is far past time for an international investigation conducted by truly impartial scientists, researchers and scholars into the reality of Auschwitz to properly and as accurately as possible bring history into accord with the facts. Peoples of all religions and persuasions have a right to such facts. So far, as the following data demonstrates, much of it from the world's foremost Jewish Holocaust scholars, we are a long way from a consensus on the truth of what happened at Auschwitz in WWII.
http://rense.com/general62/auch.htm

Documents from the Soviet archive of German government records also fail to confirm killing of Jews on the scale claimed.

Official German Records of Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp from May 1940 to December 1944
These statistics concerning prisoners in Auschwitz camp purport to be taken directly from Soviet archive material, now available on microfilm from the former Soviet Central Archives. Also, a good deal of corroborative material from the German Archives concerning the German State Railways has been located in the German State Archives (Bundesarchiv) and utilized. The railroad was responsible for the transportation of inmates to and from concentration camps and these figures from the Russian files are accurately reflected in the Reichsbahn documents.Another avenue for confirmation exists in the wartime radio intercepts which are known to have been made. British wartime intelligence was eavesdropping on the radio traffic as Auschwitz (and other camps) sent regular reports to the relevant government department in Berlin. These messages were either in plain text or a low-level encrypt and consisted of lists of numbers corresponding to the various prisoner categories.The following derives from the prisoner records of Auschwitz camp from May 1940 through December 1944 in the Glücks complete Concentration Camp microfilm records now located in the Russian Central Archives, Central State Archives.

We cannot make sense of the present until we understand the past. Until we are prepared to confront the truth, we have no foundation on which to build a better future. No subject, however uncomfortable should be off-limits. We can build a better future by understanding the past and removing the incentives and penalties which lead to wars and misinformation.