What happened to Scholars for 9/11 Truth?

[Veronica]

OK … well it goes like this.

In the beginning it was Jim Fetzer's idea to start it up (last year).

Steven Earl Jones was invited to be the Co-Chair, and accepted. Jones then dragged in one Alex Floum, to set the whole thing up … including the WebSite & the Scholar's Forum.

Alex Floum is a professional Attorney, who deals in 'Intellectual Property' matters.

Scholars for 9/11 Truth was all, therefore, set up in Floum's name … not Fetzer's.

Alex Floum was 'outed' as blogger "GeorgeWashington", on 911Blogger.com, some weeks ago. He was also 'outed' as Jones' Attorney.

Floum has not denied this … however they do remain allegations … and, therefore, not necessarily the Truth.

However, after many repeated attempts at obtaining denials, none have been forthcoming.

"GeorgeWashington" is a Moderator at 911Blogger.com, and has been instrumental in censoring (by removing) anything and everything that does not support Jones' absurd 'thermate' nonsense. He has also been seen to post lie after lie (see my first post in this Forum).

Recently, Jim Fetzer, has seen the commonsense in Morgan Reynolds' and Judy Wood's presentations of how the Twin Towers were destroyed, and this set him on an 'anti-Jones' path.

Fetzer wrote a highly-critical (of Jones) Open Letter on the Scholars Website.

Floum has now pulled down this letter, and changed the WebSite Password … thus depriving Fetzer of what really is 'his own property'.

Floum can do this because all the registrations were originally made through him, and therefore he holds the 'keys'.

Fetzer has tried to come to terms with all of this by incorporating Scholars for 9/11 Truth as a non-profit organisation, to be run along democratic lines.

This is not good enough for Floum/Jones, so they are attempting to start up their own "Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice" and … having also 'stolen' the Membership List (which, for some reason my name was still on) … have e-mailed everyone attempting to cajole them into moving with Floum/Jones.

They have not been entirely successful. (From memory) I recall that only about 37% of the Membership followed suit. The vast majority just stood back in amazement at all the obvious finagling that has been going on.

Quite what will happen is still very much up in the air, however Floum is being hit from all sides. Here is a copy of a recent (highly sarcastic) e-mail I sent to Rick Siegel (copied to many others, including Floum). Its subject matter was in response to this article by Rick, his radio broadcast & the Heavy WaterGate Video (remember Alex Floum = "GeorgeWashington" in all probability):

Hi Rick,

I just have to congratulate you on your invaluable article identifying Alex Floum's activities in respect of 9/11 Research. It's one of those 'cannot put downs'. My personal preference was for Chapter 4, which details his 2004 legal achievements. (Although I did get slightly lost in some of the 'legalese', I must admit)

With an Attorney of such power on our side we have absolutely nothing to fear, IMHO.

More power to your elbow, Rick! More power to Floum's elbow! (Let's just hope he doesn't run out of Indictments ... 'cos that would be a crying shame).

I wonder if Alex Floum would consider turning his attention towards that craven liar on 911Blogger.com ... the one who goes under the acronym "GeorgeWashington". Any chance of using your Power of Attorney to reign in THAT despicable piece of lying * .... and put some Truth into his filthy mouth for once in his life? What do you think Alex? Any chance?

I can give you a good example of his lying *, Alex. He said that the Scholars had "debated" 'No-planes' and found no Truth in it. That's what he said, Alex. It's there in his blog. Yet I have a copy of those 'Scholars Threads'. Should I publish them to show that no such 'debate' took place? So that the world can see what a lying * "GeorgeWashington" is? Would you like a copy, as evidence, Alex?

Best,

Veronica

(You will have to guess the words behind the asterisks). Funnily enough, I've not yet had any reply.

There is an excerpt from Rick's Radio broadcast here, where he describes what happened when he met Prof. Steven Earl Jones.

If you watch the Heavy WaterGate Video (via the link above), you will see how Jones, in 1989, ALMOST killed the fine work of Pons & Fleischmann … but not quite (fortunately, I would think, for humanity in general).

Jones was obviously sent in as 'damage limitation', in an attempt to divert "9/11 Truth" into a 'thermate' cul-de-sac.

He will only succeed if you let him.

Listen to Rick Siegel, especially when he tells you to 'make up your own mind' … and don't be led by anyone … and that includes both myself and Rick … and (of course) Jones & Floum.

Make up your own independent minds.

But only utilise the Truth in doing so.

[Snowygrouch]

Thats one version of events,
I`d like to put a somewhat condensed version of that below.

1: ST911 formed, very promising and powerful network formed

2: Some of them start talking about beams and NPT

3: Whole thing falls apart:

Anyone see a pattern emerging with this stuff????

Oooh what happened to the Loose Change forums....the SAME THING.

What looks like being in danger of happening here....the SAME THING.

When are we going to see that NPT is a theory designed for one purpose; to destroy us. By god it works well too.

Wake up and realise that by getting sucked into this piffle you are working (in effect) for them.

The way forward is to put NPT in THE BIN before its too late. Or perhaps you`ll only be happy when you`ve driven all the serious researchers away from this site, alienated 90% of the lurkers and made yourselves look like little David Ikes on too much LSD.

I`m concerned that 95% of all NPT posts are designed NOT to talk about evidence for its existance (quite hard as the ISNT any) but to slag off Jones and be divisive. This stuff is purpose made to divide us and destroy us; wake up and smell the coffee.

Its up to you.

[Zabooka]

...Jones' absurd 'thermate' nonsense...

That just shows... emotional bias.

Though I may be not as informed as you about all this. From what I know of, 911 Mysteries, Improbable Collapse and Kevin Ryan's Lectures, plus others... they all talk of thermate/thermite being very credible as an explanation.

What is the alternative to thermate or thermite? As from what I can see, its the majority opinion to explain the reasons for molten metals being at the base of WTC for weeks after 911. Plus the reason for the white smoke, plus there were other chemical residue evidence that accounts for it, plus there is photographic and video evidence for flowing molten metals spilling out of the towers before collapse. Plus photo and video evidence of molten metals amongst the debris being cleared after 911.

What is the alternative to all this?

Plus I see no reason how the idea of thermate/thermite discredits or harms the overall Truth movement? Its not something thats so easily rubbished away by debunkers, unless I am ignorant of such.

Please enlighten us upon this

[outsider]

Thats one version of events,
I`d like to put a somewhat condensed version of that below.

1: ST911 formed, very promising and powerful network formed

2: Some of them start talking about beams and NPT

3: Whole thing falls apart:

Anyone see a pattern emerging with this stuff????

Oooh what happened to the Loose Change forums....the SAME THING.

What looks like being in danger of happening here....the SAME THING.

When are we going to see that NPT is a theory designed for one purpose; to destroy us. By god it works well too.

Wake up and realise that by getting sucked into this piffle you are working (in effect) for them.

The way forward is to put NPT in THE BIN before its too late. Or perhaps you`ll only be happy when you`ve driven all the serious researchers away from this site, alienated 90% of the lurkers and made yourselves look like little David Ikes on too much LSD.

I`m concerned that 95% of all NPT posts are designed NOT to talk about evidence for its existance (quite hard as the ISNT any) but to slag off Jones and be divisive. This stuff is purpose made to divide us and destroy us; wake up and smell the coffee.

Its up to you.

Hear! Hear!

[Stefan]

I think we should forget they ever existed and stop mentioning them, we need to get some serious distance from the "Death Star" storm troopers.

I'm interested to see what Jones and Ryan and others come up with now...

[Zabooka]

Well, I would atleast like to know how and if DEBUNKERs have been able to rubbish Thermate/Thermite use well enough?

I mean... if there is any argument for this, I would like to know it. If not, then let it be cause it will be seen as clearly foolish if there is not argument.

Its upto the original poster here of this thread, to say how thermate is being so easily rubbished by our debunkers and how thus its doing more harm to us than good. Plus, what alternative they have thats supposed to be doing us more good than bad?

[Hazzard]

Who cares what happened to them!

With an organization such as this you would have to be niaeve not to think that it wouldnt be infiltrated sooner or later.

Who the infiltrators are I dont know exactly but I was long expecting this gatekeeper group to fold or fumble at some piont.

We are a LEADERLESS movement. We do not need any figure head or face mask to drag us into the pits with them.

Forget scholars for 9/11 truth. Push forward. Push ahead. Never give up and above all never look back.

We must be persistant, and like water our flow must be unstoppable. If we let every single Owl impeded our progress we will be damned up forever.

There are enough owls on here that I suggest you all find other smaller 9/11 truth forums to keep your heads above the *, becuase there is alot of it in this forum.

[Fallious]

Thats one version of events,
I`d like to put a somewhat condensed version of that below.

1: ST911 formed, very promising and powerful network formed

2: Some of them start talking about beams and NPT

3: Whole thing falls apart:

Anyone see a pattern emerging with this stuff????

Oooh what happened to the Loose Change forums....the SAME THING.

What looks like being in danger of happening here....the SAME THING.

When are we going to see that NPT is a theory designed for one purpose; to destroy us. By god it works well too.

Wake up and realise that by getting sucked into this piffle you are working (in effect) for them.

Someone give this man a cookie, I ran out long ago.

NPT and BWT Have a glaring similarity. They both rely on MEANS which cannot be proven.

My greatest fear for 9/11 truth is that a new commission will be adjourned, and the only questions put to them by 'truth' representatives will be about No Planes and Beam Weapons. Instantly shrugged off with high resolution photos or a simple flat denial of a capable Beam Weapon.

[Annie]

I absolutely agree with Snowygrouch et al. I've been watching with horror what has been happening to the 911 Scholars over the last few months, and this is why I have been vehemently against the use of NPT etc as a public campaigning tool.

What actually happened on the day will (I hope) eventually come out when the dam breaks. Up until then, it will remain pure research and possible speculation, and will cause division within the movement and scare off newcomers to the subject.

That's not to say people should not be researching these subjects - after all, this may be where the "smoking gun" evidence finally comes from. But for the purposes of spreading trhe word as widely as possible to as many people as possible, we just don't need these subjects as entry points. The OCT is so obviously flawed, all we have to do is get people thinking for themselves.

[Dogsmilk]

a. Truth movement splits into NPT\beam weapons\holograms vs planes

b.Becomes totally preoccupied with twin towers at expense of other issues and locked into arguments, mud-slinging and absurd denouncements of any and all heretics to their cause as 'agents'.

c.NPTs debunk planers. Planers debunk NPTs. Critics struggle to find role in new environment. Settle on agreeing with whoever is engaged in debunking at any given time.

d.Forums everywhere dissolve into bitching, hissy fits and pathetic threats issued to anonymous individuals who likely live on the other side of the world.

e.Radical splinter faction dreams up and endorses a new theory so weird no-one on the planet has yet thought of it in their wildest dreams. Decides everyone who doesn't totally agree with it is obviously in the pay of the CIA.

f. Rest of world moves on and forgets all about 911 as bitter wars continue to erupt over 5 second clips of low-res video footage.

[paul wright]

a. Truth movement splits into NPT\beam weapons\holograms vs planes

b.Becomes totally preoccupied with twin towers at expense of other issues and locked into arguments, mud-slinging and absurd denouncements of any and all heretics to their cause as 'agents'.

c.NPTs debunk planers. Planers debunk NPTs. Critics struggle to find role in new environment. Settle on agreeing with whoever is engaged in debunking at any given time.

d.Forums everywhere dissolve into bitching, hissy fits and pathetic threats issued to anonymous individuals who likely live on the other side of the world.

e.Radical splinter faction dreams up and endorses a new theory so weird no-one on the planet has yet thought of it in their wildest dreams. Decides everyone who doesn't totally agree with it is obviously in the pay of the CIA.

f. Rest of world moves on and forgets all about 911 as bitter wars continue to erupt over 5 second clips of low-res video footage.

Utterly stupid stuff wobbler
More than that stupefying
How on earth can they do that
I mean I believe in the most outlandish theories because they seem to fit the evidence, but why on earth would you want to split the movement
It happens on the left and it happens on the right
All sicko fantasists seeking their own demise
While the confident elite chortle as always at the fragmentation

[IronSnot]

I'm with Snowygrouch too, and by extension Jones rather than Fetzer et al.
Good to see Annie doing the same, and Veronica I suggest you look a little more closely at the originators of NPT, webfairy and holmgren, both nutcases and with some nonsense pedigree themselves;

http://www.stewwebb.com/Grand%20Jury%20 ... 0Order.htm

Anyone got a photo of Rosalee Grable? I'd kind of like to see what she looks like, before I out her further.

[paul wright]

She's a 59 year old crippled with arthritis Dont do it Let her do her own stuff

[IronSnot]

Got a photo, dh?

[IronSnot]

No?

Ok, well here's a post of Rosalee's on the Beauregard board.

http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/archive ... /0130.html

Is that phone number hers?

Now have you got a photo?

[paul wright]

Got a photo, dh?

Certainly not Her original stuff - not least the original slow-mo - at least the first I ever seen - verifies her as a truly original

[IronSnot]

She's a fake, like Jayhan is.

[paul wright]

What are you on?
As far as you're concerned they're all fakes here

[marky 54]

Thats one version of events,
I`d like to put a somewhat condensed version of that below.

1: ST911 formed, very promising and powerful network formed

2: Some of them start talking about beams and NPT

3: Whole thing falls apart:

Anyone see a pattern emerging with this stuff????

Oooh what happened to the Loose Change forums....the SAME THING.

What looks like being in danger of happening here....the SAME THING.

When are we going to see that NPT is a theory designed for one purpose; to destroy us. By god it works well too.

Wake up and realise that by getting sucked into this piffle you are working (in effect) for them.

The way forward is to put NPT in THE BIN before its too late. Or perhaps you`ll only be happy when you`ve driven all the serious researchers away from this site, alienated 90% of the lurkers and made yourselves look like little David Ikes on too much LSD.

I`m concerned that 95% of all NPT posts are designed NOT to talk about evidence for its existance (quite hard as the ISNT any) but to slag off Jones and be divisive. This stuff is purpose made to divide us and destroy us; wake up and smell the coffee.

Its up to you.

if its know that this is whats happening and what its motives are, why not delete anything that dosnt argue a valid point on exotic theory's. ive seen lots of threads in the last few weeks, that just have a title like "no plane the man did'nt put his hotdog down untill the explosion" then a video that shows nothing in it that can be described as anything really, so they dont even offer a valid point to talk about, even if there was a slim possibility of it being true. theres more evidence in this post of NPT than in a lot of threads ive seen.

[IronSnot]

DH, admit it there's not a photo in the public realm of 'Rosalee Grable'.

I wonder why.

[IronSnot]

What are you on?
As far as you're concerned they're all fakes here

Nup. Just asking for a photo of Rosalee, that's all.

Have you got one?

[numeral]

1. 19 suicide hijackers
2. remote piloting of big Boeings
3. no planes or no big Boeings
4. something else

I am, like, relaxed about these possibilities. I do not see anything divisive about anyone espousing any one of them, although number 1 would surprise me. Let the inaccessible facts decide!

Everybody should post their photos. This will prove ... nothing.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

Thats one version of events,
I`d like to put a somewhat condensed version of that below.

1: ST911 formed, very promising and powerful network formed

2: Some of them start talking about beams and NPT

3: Whole thing falls apart:

Anyone see a pattern emerging with this stuff????

Oooh what happened to the Loose Change forums....the SAME THING.

What looks like being in danger of happening here....the SAME THING.

When are we going to see that NPT is a theory designed for one purpose; to destroy us. By god it works well too.

Wake up and realise that by getting sucked into this piffle you are working (in effect) for them.

The way forward is to put NPT in THE BIN before its too late. Or perhaps you`ll only be happy when you`ve driven all the serious researchers away from this site, alienated 90% of the lurkers and made yourselves look like little David Ikes on too much LSD.

I`m concerned that 95% of all NPT posts are designed NOT to talk about evidence for its existance (quite hard as the ISNT any) but to slag off Jones and be divisive. This stuff is purpose made to divide us and destroy us; wake up and smell the coffee.

Its up to you.

Snowy if you cannot see that Steve Jones was brought into 911 truth for the same reasons as Cold Fusion then you are extremely dim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[poiuytr]

Fetzer asked Jones how thermate can ejects steel beans outward and up in the air ,and how it can reduce all concrete into fine dust; he proposed him to participate on his radio show and defend his position:he refused.
Jones seems to have stalled the cold fusion research,and doesn't give a very clear reason why he seeks to control st911,to which he was invited,instead of creating his own site.

On the other hand,Fetzer associates himself with Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood,who seem to advocate NPT.

If i have to choose between the two,i will stand by Fetzer.

[Skeptic]

^ Jones said that thermate was used in conjunction with more conventional explosives.

Only someone who had not read his material properly would put forward such a criticism.

[John White]

Another Veronica thread. The pattern is always the same: she comes in, dumps an opening post, and leaves whilst watching us all squabble about it. I havnt seen a single response post from Veronica on any subject, although its clear "she" is in both BW and NPT theory camps

IMO, its little better than propogandasing: its certainly not debate: and perhaps we should be a little aware that the effect is always split and division and ask important questions, like "why?"

[Snowygrouch]

I REALLY REALLY get bored bringing this up.

Jones NEVER EVER EVER claimed that JUST thermite was used.

I REALLY hope this clears this up. TWSU3 and Andrew; PLEASE READ THIS!!

Below is a copy/paste from Jones paper, page 15.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thus, we find substantial evidence supporting the current conjecture that some variation of thermite (e.g., solid aluminum powder plus Fe2O3, with possible addition of sulfur) was used on the steel columns of the WTC Tower to weaken the huge steel supports, not long before explosives finished the demolition job.

Roughly 2,000 pounds of RDX-grade linear-shaped charges (which could have been pre-positioned by just a few men) would then suffice in each Tower and WTC 7 to cut the supports at key points so that gravity would bring the buildings straight down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So; now that we're all properly informed, lets move on shall we?

(I`ll email you the report if you think I made the above up).

It seems that the explanation for the flying beams is right there on page 15 of Stevens own paper.

Calum

[brian]

Snowygrouch, I posted that information re Jones when this nonsense was first broached with Andrew Johnson's post -

Important article by Morgan Reynolds

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewt ... highlight=

I also agree with what John White says about Veronica - what is her game?

As for TTWSU3 - best left unsaid.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

I you believe these are real planes you are brain dead


http://killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html

[Snowygrouch]

Yes,
They do look very "weird", 2 engines, 2 wings, 1 fuselage, a tail and airbourne. Hmmmmm......

Where have I seen THAT before......oh I KNOW!!!

THE AIRPORT!!

I am braindead, I would like to publicly announce that to the world.

I notice that instead of acknowledging my point about jones you post an insult followed by someone elses weblink.

Wow I bet you`ve really won everyone over now with your impartial research skills and the ease with which you accept when youve made a mistake....not.

Once again I`m SO dissapointed and yet not at all surprised.

*groan*