New UK analysis of Flight 77 black box data

[Snowygrouch]

All,

As promised several weeks ago the tireless efforts of myself and pilotsfor911truth.org have resulted in a full "decode" of what the NTSB (US National Transportation Safety Board) claim to be the complete raw data output from the flight data recorder of flight 77 (Pentagon).

The data has actually produced more questions than answers, for example the data recording STOPS over a mile from the Pentagon.

The raw data has confirmed the accuracy of the NTSB animation that I aquired under FOIA from the NTSB last August (that shows the plane no-where near those 5 light poles damaged).

The raw data has also confirmed that the LAST figure of altitude given was 273 feet above GROUND level. (The pentagon is 71 feet tall). This is from radio altitude so is accurate to within several feet.

Analysis is ongoing (the spreadsheet of data is about 4 million cells of data long) but it confirms that the flightpath does NOT match to the damage leading up to the pentagon. (interestigly the path DOES match up to eyewitness testimony, some of whom saw TWO planes and two cemetry workers saw a jet fly OVER the pentagon).

The eyewitness interviews will shortly be released in a film called the PentaCON.

For futher info visit www.pilotsfor911truth.org

I telephoned Jim Ritter at the NTSB (who signed off the Flight 77 study) on monday. He refuses to comment. I also telephoned the FBI PentBOM team (who commandeered juristiction of the F77 issue from the NTSB). They cannot comment as the PentBOM team has been disbanded. How convenient.......

Its all on tape of course

Calum

[Fallious]

Awesome to see it all lines up!

Is it feasible that someone could have cut out the data from the last mile, or the box to have been turned off somehow? I guess if you got the data as a spreadsheet there is no way to check for tampering?

[The Watcher]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2&hl=en-GB

Not the clearest of pictures but Crane discusses this exact same issue 26mins into this video. I saw him make the same supposition at his talk in Lewes last September. Does the latest data support the assumption that the plane flying over the Pentagon was on an approach run into Ronald Reagan International Airport?

The Watcher

[Snowygrouch]

I`m afriad it is very unlikely that the plane was on approach to the airport. The speed is far too high.

If this plane did fly over the building it must have been at several hundred miles per hour.

C.

[SHERITON HOTEL]

Sorry, another one of my stupid questions. If there was a flight 77 black box recovered,are we then saying flight 77 did hit the Pentagon 9/11?

Is it true the official story goes... flight 77's black box was recovered 4 days post 9/11 and at 4am?

[johndoex]

I`m afriad it is very unlikely that the plane was on approach to the airport. The speed is far too high.

If this plane did fly over the building it must have been at several hundred miles per hour.

We may still never quite know what happened as for some reason the data stops over 7 seconds before impact (IF it did hit as they say it did).




C.

Hi all,

Just a small correction for Snowygrouch.

We arent missing up to 7 seconds of data. The FDR recorded 1.5 DME (distance) from DCA VOR (which is 2 seconds away from the pentagon wall based on speed). Being that is the case and the radar alt last recording was 273 feet, there is no way this aircraft took down the light poles when calculating vertical speed and vertical acceleration even given a time slip error of +/- 2 seconds.

The lat/long position does seem to stop further west than the rest of the parameters in the raw readout and has to be plotted for the whole flight from take off and cross check with radar to see where the side-step/line change happened. But thankfully the NTSB already did that for us in the Animation.

Hope this clears it up a bit and you're all doing well!

Cheers!
Rob

[Bongo]

Quick question(s), is this data being collaborated by independant experts, pilots etc? and if there are anomalies, how effectively do they prove that the flight path differs from the official account (ie, is it incontravertable proof)? And the million Dollar question, is it strong enough evidence to prosecute the authors of the official line?

Ps. I did try to do my 'Sherlock Holmes' bit by finding out the datum level of the Heli-pad at the pentagon above sea level (which was quite easy - public domain), but I ask these questions, as I got the jist of 'Pandoras Black Box', but not being a pilot or an expert, I'm not sure of the full gravity of the findings.

[Snowygrouch]

If you need information in addition to that provided you are best off PMing JohnDoeX. Being a pilot he`s 100% clued up on the aerospace technicalities.

With regards to the black box itself, the word I used "recovered" in no way states the PLACE it was recovered from!!

It made its way to the NTSB anyway (apparently). This is the data we have now, would be VERY VERY hard to fake it.

C.

[QuitTheirClogs]

I watched Pandora’s Black Box Chpt II on google last week. Does the newly released blackbox data agree to the flight data used in that video – or is it too early to say yet?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1196607580

[Snowygrouch]

it does agree, yes. most importantlt that the radoi altitude matches the pressure alt (well it does once you subtract ground level as radio alt is from the ground up....pressure alt is from sea level up.)

C.

[Thermate]

interestingly the path DOES match up to eyewitness testimony, some of whom saw TWO planes and two cemetery workers saw a jet fly OVER the pentagon).

This is interesting and might explain or fit with the time differences. If I remember right the black box shows a slightly (3min?) earlier time than the pentagon clocks stopped at?

[Snowygrouch]

Yes the clocks did stop the "wrong" time. However if a drone did hit the building it would have to be at about the same moment as the flyover to have any hope of fooling most people.

So I think thats perhaps not the explanation there, of course I could be completely wrong!

C.

[rodin]

Does this black box data have any value at all being as it came from a source that would want to spin a line anyway. Can BB data be faked - just printed up? How do you know the data even came from a black box?

[Snowygrouch]

Rodin,
Well if you are an OCT lover you HAVE TO accept this data otherwise you accept that some form of criminal act occured involving 2 or more people (a conspiracy).

The data has over 4 MILLION data cells several of which correllate to one another. You have

1: Airspeed
2: Pressure altitide
3: Radio altitide
4: Engine oil pressure
5: Engine throttle
6: lattitude and longitude
7: vertical accelleration
8: flap positions
etc
etc
etc
etc
255: VOR

Those 255 ish parameters are recorded (mostly) once a SECOND, imagine typing up a list like that for an hour of data!!!

Remember you cant fudge the speed without making sure the accelleration matches...then you have to make sure the altitude matches..then you....(you get the idea).

No you coulnt FAKE this as such, you COULD take a real recording from an identical plane (757-200 3b) taken from a different DATE and probably fudge it.

But could you make it all up in your bedroom with a typewriter?? No way.

C.

Incidentally my email server has just gone on the blink and refuses to send emails to someone I`ve been emailing for months and spoke to on the phone 1 hour ago?

[rodin]

Cheers for that Snowy. So sum up for us non-aviation people, what have we got out of this Black Box. Is it

1) That the plane could or could not have hit the Pentagon
2) The plane did or did not hit the Pentagon
3) The plane was too high or off course to hit the telegraph poles
4) Inconclusive

[johndoex]

C.

Incidentally my email server has just gone on the blink and refuses to send emails to someone I`ve been emailing for months and spoke to on the phone 1 hour ago?

C.. its my email that is having the problem. If you were trying to email me.. email at pilotsfortruth@yahoo.com.

As for those talking about the data being 'faked'. It doesnt matter of its faked or real... because it came from the NTSB. If its faked, its as alarming as it being accurate and still needs to be answered by the NTSB. We cannot just ignore it because we think it 'may be' fake (although, some make that excuse). The Govt has to answer for it... Period.

Good chat on the phone C!.

Email me your addy at the above email and i'll get out your DVD's tomorrow or the next day.

Cheers!
Rob

[Snowygrouch]

JohnD: Ok I`ll resend. That was driving me nuts for half an hour!!

Rodin: Basically the position (at present) is this:

The VOR (a figure that is used to determine the distance from an object, in this case a transmitter at the Airport near the Pentagon) gives a last distance of 1.5 miles from F77 to the transmitter.

At the speed the plane was going that puts it 2 seconds away from the face of the Pentagon. At that point the height was such that the plane could NOT have nosedived fast enough to have hit the face of the building where that hole is. (when I say could not I mean that the gravity forces at the accelleration required would kill a man and buckle an airframe).

I`ll try to put together a graphic to illustrate this.

[kookomula]

I cannot get my head around this, everytime I think of a question, I become more confused. More questions, more time. The data ends 2 seconds before it would have hit the Pentagon at 273ft? Why would they give you this information?

[Snowygrouch]

Kookomula,
because NOT everyone is "in on it"; they dont control the whole world you know (contrary to some of the posts here).

You could phone them and ask why they released it....oh wait they REFUSE to answer ANY questions on flight77.

Why???

Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Bloody good saying i reckon.

If it does turn out to be "faked" the fact it came from a department of the US gov would be just as damaging as proof it didnt hit.

For the OCT boys they HAVE to accept it OR accept their gov is lying to them.. so its win win really.

C.

[kookomula]

Not answering any questions - I guess you've got the information and it's up to you or rather down to you to do something with it.

Good work.

[Snowygrouch]

Also remember the raw file they gave out under FOIA request is usless unless you have access to VERY specialist software costing anywhere up to $100,000 USD. The only companies in the world with such software are some airlines, the military and one of very very few specialists in crash investigation.

The chances of a member of the public being able to ever get the file decoded were about 1000/1.

I suppose they wern't counting on the `1`....were they

[rodin]

JohnD: Ok I`ll resend. That was driving me nuts for half an hour!!

Rodin: Basically the position (at present) is this:

The VOR (a figure that is used to determine the distance from an object, in this case a transmitter at the Airport near the Pentagon) gives a last distance of 1.5 miles from F77 to the transmitter.

At the speed the plane was going that puts it 2 seconds away from the face of the Pentagon. At that point the height was such that the plane could NOT have nosedived fast enough to have hit the face of the building where that hole is. (when I say could not I mean that the gravity forces at the accelleration required would kill a man and buckle an airframe).

I`ll try to put together a graphic to illustrate this.

Thanks for that clarification. We therefore have another piece of truly hard evidence, as opposed to speculation.

Excellent work.

[scar]

Absolutely excellent work Snowy and all @ Pilots for Truth!

[xmasdale]

Congrats to Snowy and Pilots for Truth.

By the way, Snowy Grouch gives an excellent, high tech and very convincing presentation on 9/11. I recommend people invite him to speak in their locality.

Oh and he's young and good-looking too - that always helps

Noel

[physicist]

I was wondering where the FDR came from if Flight 77 flew over the Pentagon?

Same question if it wasn't Flight 77.

Is it a fake (but not a good one)?

[TonyGosling]

Black box data is mentioned on almost all news reports after air crashes - why not this time? I've heard nothing about this at all - and am annoyed!!

[TonyGosling]

Black box data is mentioned on almost all news reports after air crashes - why not this time? I've heard nothing about this at all - and am annoyed!!

[Mark Gobell]

It is my understanding that there hasn't been any FBI / NTSB air accident investigations.

Is this correct ?

Black box discovery thread

[Snowygrouch]

The NTSB conducted an "investigation" based on the black box (under the overall juristiction of the FBI), however no proper air-accident investigations involving the analysis of debris or rebuilding the airframes was ever done. Neither were ANY part numbers publicly corroborated with manufacturers data.

The FBI team who were responsible (the PentBOM team) are now disbanded so you cannot even phone them up anymore (I have that on tape).

The NTSB man who signed off the Flight77 "flightpath study" is called Jim Ritter (we have paperwork withhis signature at the base) refuses to either explain or even to admit they are even AWARE of any issues with the data. I tried to speak to him two weeks ago, he didnt tell me anything.

C.

[Snowygrouch]

The tabulated readings had a thing called ALTITUDE in. I pointed out exactly which cell it was.

I believe that even totally non-technically minded people are perfectly aware of what 273 feet above the ground means.

As for carrying on my research, I certainly will