Dangers of fluoride new law adding it to all UK water supply

[Linda]

Previous headline
Call to add fluoride to bottle water

United in idiocy: Call to add fluoride to bottle water

'Consumer, health and industry groups were united yesterday in calls for the national food regulator, Food Standards Australia New Zealand, to overturn its ban on added fluoride. Only naturally occurring fluoride is allowed in bottled water. Two months ago Prime Minister John Howard described the increase in tooth decay as a national tragedy and called for parents to give children at least one glass of fluoridated tap water a day.

Consumer watchdog Choice said allowing manufacturers to add fluoride to some bottled water would help arrest the dramatic increase in children's tooth decay.'

Reality check: (1) John Howard is an Illuminati gofer who says whatever he's told, not least because the shadow people have so much on him that he wants to remain a secret. (2) Fluoride, an exitotoxin that destroys brain cells and disrupts the brain's electrochemical system, does not help with tooth decay. (3) The best way to 'arrest tooth decay' is for children to clean their bloody teeth (not with fluoride toothpaste) and stop eating all the teeth-destroying sweets and foods full of nonsense and poison produced by the corporations that support John Howard.

Read more ...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 47300.html

[Mark Gobell]

Disgusting.

Key Findings - Fluoride's Topical vs. Systemic Effects:

When water fluoridation first began in the 1940s, dentists believed that fluoride's main benefit came from ingesting fluoride during the early years of life. This belief held sway for over 40 years.

However, it is now acknowledged by dental researchers to be incorrect. According to the Centers for Disease Control, fluoride's predominant effect is TOPICAL (direct contact with teeth) and not systemic (from ingestion).

Hence, there is no need to ingest fluoride to derive it's purported benefit for teeth.

As stated by the US Centers for Disease Control:

"[L]aboratory and epidemiologic research suggests that fluoride prevents dental caries predominately after eruption of the tooth into the mouth, and its actions primarily are topical for both adults and children" (CDC, 1999, MMWR 48: 933-940).


CONNETT: You mentioned that fluoride's benefits come from the local, or topical, effect. Could you just discuss a little more what you see as the significance of that fact? Why is it important that fluoride's benefit is topical, and not from ingestion?

CARLSSON: Well, in pharmacology, if the effect is local, it's of course absolutely awkward to use it in any other way than as a local treatment. I mean this is obvious. You have the teeth there, they're available for you, why drink the stuff?... I see no reason at all for giving it in any other way than locally -- topically, if you wish.

http://fluoridealert.org/health/teeth/c ... temic.html

Consider this statement from a special issue of the Journal of Dental Research (Vol. 69) in 1990: “Evidence for the absence of a systemic anticaries effect of fluoride is now recognized by leading dental researchers.” In other words, drinking fluoridated water does not reduce tooth decay!

http://www.healthcarealternatives.net/r ... uoride.htm

[rodin]

Fluoride is a systemic poison. İt also weakens teeth and bone thru fluorosis. Byproduct of aluminium smelting and centrifuging uranium.

Usual suspects involved

Ref The Fluoride Deception

The elite distil their water

[Reflecter]

Linda,

Thankyou for the heads up on this issue. I am currently a Dental Student in Manchester and am slowly (time permitting with 4 kids etc) attempting to compile a damning portfolio of Fluoride research into a well organised dossier (in the manner of Snowygrouchs research, if pictures speak a thousand words). This will be presented eventually to Dr Anthony Blinkhorn of the National Flouride Information Centre in Manchester http://www.fluorideinformation.com for his/their opinion. Naturally a copy of the Fluoride Deception film and book are thrown in.

He was in his own words "a major proponent of systemic fluoridation", in a for once very interesting lecture, whilst my peers slept (suprising what so called CT's do for the mind). He has since quit lobbying for it, due to the publics inherit distaste of 'mass medications' and now favours, what he termed 'impartial advice'. Though I personally find the site lacking a genuine balance of opinions. In his favour he did cover a deal of its history and potential problems, yet still washed over certain aspects and lambasted some ideas as pseudoscience. I refrained from collaring him at the time, as I have done with physicists and chemists over DU and Laser technologies in the past, in favour of a more prepared approach.

Imhho there is little the 'general' public could cite of evidence of major problems from systemically supplied regions (thats the problem) yet I have zero doubt of big businesses reasons for convenient & cheap disposal of industrial waste.

I would perhaps favour the use of fluoridated bottled water for formula fed babies over systemic provision to the masses (providing I dont find more damning research) but would rather systemic supplies were abolished in favour of purely topical treatments, if at all.

Whilst topical treatments have been proven more easily to have benefits in strengthening enamel via plaque, there is probably no need for fluoride at all, if the masses would brush their teeth with anything and not eat sugar laden nonsense so regularly in the first place.

Id like to thank the West Yorkshire Campaign for a number of useful links already and would welcome anything anyone can find on this issue. Please PM me.

In addition I am putting together a similar proposal over DU in relation to 'The Iraqi Childrens Tooth Project' for fundraising via the Dental School and broader. So any and all links to news and DU research would be welcomed.

Regards

Bear in mind this will take time, as I have to tread carefully among the indoctrinated and "getting people to accept something their salary depends on them not doing, is difficult". Besides... I have 5 kids to feed!

[rodin]

A dental student wıth 5 kıds?

Impressıve...

[Mark Gobell]

I'm under the very distinct impression that tooth decay is a product of poor dental hygiene and poor diet.

Is this wrong ?

If so, I would like to suggest that our local Health Authorities, bite the bullet and directly medicate our tap water with large doses of SSRI's so that we can forget about hydrofluoric acid once and for all.

[blackcat]

A dental student wıth 5 kıds?

Impressıve...

Very. He had one between starting and finishing his post!!

I am currently a Dental Student in Manchester and am slowly (time permitting with 4 kids etc)

Besides... I have 5 kids to feed!

Perhaps "etc" was the fifth??

[Reflecter]

With all the schill calling that goes on from time to time I was implying a line used by one Benny the Taxi Driver in Total Recall and meant nothing by it. Well spotted though. 4 kids it is.

Oral Hygienes not even that important regarding tooth decay, its purely frequency of sugar consumption. Hygienge plays its role in gum disease leading to tooth loss by degradation of the supporting structures.

Sorry to bump the thread for that.

[Johnny Pixels]

What do you propose to do out about naturally occurring flouride in water supplies, levels of which are often higher than the levels to which water is artificially raised?

[John White]

What do you propose to do out about naturally occurring flouride in water supplies, levels of which are often higher than the levels to which water is artificially raised?

Not make those "natural" levels of flouride unnecessarily higher Mr Pixels. Common sense. Though a nonsense argument from yourself: if natural levels were so high, there would be no "need" to dump the stuff in the water supply, would there?

[Johnny Pixels]

What do you propose to do out about naturally occurring flouride in water supplies, levels of which are often higher than the levels to which water is artificially raised?

Not make those "natural" levels of flouride unnecessarily higher Mr Pixels. Common sense. Though a nonsense argument from yourself: if natural levels were so high, there would be no "need" to dump the stuff in the water supply, would there?

They don't make them higher. In some parts of the country they are naturally higher than others. The naturally high areas are left as they are, and in the low areas they are brought up to a higher level, but not as high as the naturally high areas.

If flouride is so dangerous at the artificially raised level, then why is no-one campaigning to have the higher naturally occurring levels reduced?

[John White]

And how would that be accomplished?

Right.

So predictably, this conversation can only swing back to defending water flouridation as in the interests of public health against the evidence to the contrary: which I'm not interested in expending energy discussing with you

Ultimately, even if one accepted that there was a benefit to medicating drinking water with rat poison, it is only a pallative for not tackling the real issues of diet and its effect on tooth decay: I'd advocate the sane policy was not taking such unnessacary risks for so spurious a benefit

[blackcat]

There are areas where the water is contaminated with sewage. I propose therefore that we leave those alone and raise the levels of sewage in other areas to the same level. Durrrr...

[johndoe]

"Fluoride is a systemic poison."

so is vitamin a, sodium, potassium and water if taken in significant quantities.

[Johnny Pixels]

And how would that be accomplished?

Right.

But these areas exist. If flouridation is as bad as people claim, then why isn't there a campaign to remove this flouride from the drinking water supply? Don't you care about these people who are subject to naturally flouridated water? I mean, you are claiming 1 part per million of flouride is dangerous, so what about people who are being subjected to 1.3 ppm? Isn't this more dangerous? Why aren't you campaigning about that? Why is it only added flouride that is dangerous?

So predictably, this conversation can only swing back to defending water flouridation as in the interests of public health against the evidence to the contrary: which I'm not interested in expending energy discussing with you

There is no evidence that flouridated water at the 1 ppm level is dangerous.

Ultimately, even if one accepted that there was a benefit to medicating drinking water with rat poison, it is only a pallative for not tackling the real issues of diet and its effect on tooth decay: I'd advocate the sane policy was not taking such unnessacary risks for so spurious a benefit

Why do you feel the need to refer to it as rat poison? Is it to add some emotional weight to your argument because it lacks scientific backing?

Flouridation is carried out mainly in socially deprived areas, and mainly benefits children, who have little say in their diets.

[Johnny Pixels]

There are areas where the water is contaminated with sewage. I propose therefore that we leave those alone and raise the levels of sewage in other areas to the same level. Durrrr...

So where is your campaign to reduce the levels of flouride where it occurs naturally over 1 part per million?

[Gibson]

There are toothpastes with flouride if that's what people want.

No need to put it in the water Artificially.

[Snowygrouch]

JP,
There is no such chemical as "Flouride", it depends on which TYPE you mean.

Naturally occuring "flouride" is organic flouride such as (alexidine dihydrofluoride and amine fluoride) which is quite different in effect and composition to the Sodium Flouride present in toothpaste and mouthwash. Incidentally its so "harmless" that special low flouride & non-flouride toothpastes are recommended for young children and pregant women as their bodies are not as capable of processing toxins (which it is).

Sodium flourides and the other variants that are a product of various industrial processes are BANNED or prohibited in the following countries:

1: China
2: Austria
3: Belgium
4: Scotland
5: Finland
6: Germany
7: Denmark
8: Norway
9: Netherlands
10: Hungary
11: Japan

Thre are permitted levels of every chemical known to man because water contains a little bit of all the nonsense we`ve been flushing into the sea since the dawn of the industrial revolution. The stuff you stick in your mounth contains up to 1500ppm which is a huge quantity. They SAY your ok if you dont swallow any, (ignoring the fact that massaging it into your gums for 5 minuites a day is a wonderful transfer mechanism).

I`m not suggesting a global conspiracy to dumb us down nessesarily but corporations dont give a S**T about your health or mine; you want to trust them? Up to you. They said lead water pipes were fine....the said DDT was fine, they SAID asbestos was fine, they SAID DU was fine. Look where that party got us. Take the hint, I would.

I suppose they thought it was really really safe and useful but prevent its use just for a laugh did they?

Why dont you do some reading; another "armchair expert"

Same old s**t.

C.

[John White]

Why do you feel the need to refer to it as rat poison? Is it to add some emotional weight to your argument because it lacks scientific backing?

Pixels, youve just utterly pwned yourself, becuase its a historical fact that the first commerical application of flouride was as Rat poison!

One day, you may just fall our of your self sustained womb and realise you have barely any idea what goes on around you: regardless of how much you think you know or how wise you believe yourself to be

[Johnny Pixels]

JP,
There is no such chemical as "Flouride", it depends on which TYPE you mean.

Naturally occuring "flouride" is organic flouride such as (alexidine dihydrofluoride and amine fluoride) which is quite different in effect and composition to the Sodium Flouride present in toothpaste and mouthwash. Incidentally its so "harmless" that special low flouride & non-flouride toothpastes are recommended for young children and pregant women as their bodies are not as capable of processing toxins (which it is).

Sodium flourides and the other variants that are a product of various industrial processes are BANNED or prohibited in the following countries:

1: China
2: Austria
3: Belgium
4: Scotland
5: Finland
6: Germany
7: Denmark
8: Norway
9: Netherlands
10: Hungary
11: Japan

Thre are permitted levels of every chemical known to man because water contains a little bit of all the nonsense we`ve been flushing into the sea since the dawn of the industrial revolution. The stuff you stick in your mounth contains up to 1500ppm which is a huge quantity. They SAY your ok if you dont swallow any, (ignoring the fact that massaging it into your gums for 5 minuites a day is a wonderful transfer mechanism).

I`m not suggesting a global conspiracy to dumb us down nessesarily but corporations dont give a S**T about your health or mine; you want to trust them? Up to you. They said lead water pipes were fine....the said DDT was fine, they SAID asbestos was fine, they SAID DU was fine. Look where that party got us. Take the hint, I would.

I suppose they thought it was really really safe and useful but prevent its use just for a laugh did they?

Why dont you do some reading; another "armchair expert"

Same old s**t.

C.

Fluoride is a ion of fluorine. The fluoridation process results in exactly the same fluoride ions in water that occur naturally.

If you're interested:

hexafluorosilicic acid reaction:

H2SiF6 + 4H2O ↔ 6F¯ + Si(OH)4 + 6H+

sodium hexafluorosilicate reaction:

Na2SiF6 + 4H2O ↔ 6F¯ Si(OH)4 + 2Na+ + 4H+

The reactions create fluoride ions, not rat poison.

[Johnny Pixels]

Why do you feel the need to refer to it as rat poison? Is it to add some emotional weight to your argument because it lacks scientific backing?

Pixels, youve just utterly pwned yourself, becuase its a historical fact that the first commerical application of flouride was as Rat poison!

One day, you may just fall our of your self sustained womb and realise you have barely any idea what goes on around you: regardless of how much you think you know or how wise you believe yourself to be

So? Chlorine is used in bleach, but you don't run around screaming at people not to go in swimming pools because it's been poisoned with bleach do you? Maybe we should stop chlorinating water supplies too so we can all get bacterial infections.

[KP50]

This is almost as bad as the "you need cow's milk for healthy bones" scam.

[Johnny Pixels]

This is almost as bad as the "you need cow's milk for healthy bones" scam.

What "scam" is that?

[scar]

That without Magnesium one cannot assimulate Calcium?
i.e. cows milk on its own isnt needed for healthy bones.
There are other reasons not to drink milk from a cow.
If you are genuinely interested then check this site:
http://www.notmilk.com
Bit of debunking fodder for your addiction if not

[Johnny Pixels]

That without Magnesium one cannot assimulate Calcium?
i.e. cows milk on its own isnt needed for healthy bones.
There are other reasons not to drink milk from a cow.
If you are genuinely interested then check this site:
http://www.notmilk.com
Bit of debunking fodder for your addiction if not

I don't know of anyone that is promoting cow's milk as the sole source of healthy bones, otherwise lactose intolerant people wouldn't be doing so good, would they?

And that link seems to be to a page about how milk is poisonous, which is, frankly, rubbish. The first link I clicked, one about asthma, claims asthma is caused by milk. Which is rubbish. Asthma is a respiratory disease, milk protein, if it causes any effects, causes gastrointestinal symptoms, because you drink milk, not breathe it in.

Next random Link - Common cold. Colds are caused by the cold virus, not milk.

Next random link - Milk causes premature sexual maturity in girls. This is just a site full of scare stories. Let your little girl drink milk and she'll turn into hooker by the age of 12 to satisfy her milk-fed lust.

You'll have to let her drink fluoridated to water to make her more docile again.

[KP50]

This is almost as bad as the "you need cow's milk for healthy bones" scam.

What "scam" is that?

Just the last 50 years of pushing milk as a healthy drink, vital for strong bones. Say something often enough and it becomes "common knowledge" even if the science is no more than "lots of calcium in milk, lots of calcium in bones, QED."

Other than the obvious risk of a major part of the human diet being designed for baby cows and the glaringly obvious observation that the parts of the world most affected by brittle bones in old age tend to be the highest milk consumers - everything is just fine.

Many people do have problems tolerating high intake of milk products, just often they don't realise it and live with the problem their whole life. Excessive mucus is usually a good sign that you should cut down on the 3 glasses a day.

I would say the "man on the street" knows a minimum of 3 things connected with food and health ....

1. Milk gives you strong bones.
2. Flouride gives you strong teeth.
3. Carrots help you see in the dark.

[rodin]

Why do you feel the need to refer to it as rat poison? Is it to add some emotional weight to your argument because it lacks scientific backing?

Pixels, youve just utterly pwned yourself, becuase its a historical fact that the first commerical application of flouride was as Rat poison!

One day, you may just fall our of your self sustained womb and realise you have barely any idea what goes on around you: regardless of how much you think you know or how wise you believe yourself to be

So? Chlorine is used in bleach, but you don't run around screaming at people not to go in swimming pools because it's been poisoned with bleach do you? Maybe we should stop chlorinating water supplies too so we can all get bacterial infections.

Chlorıne ıs a poıson actually. That ıs why ıt ıs put ınto swımmıng pools - to kıll bugs. It also harms us over tıme. Fluorıde and Chlorıne are halıdes - elements wıth a strong electronegatıve tendency. Chlorıde ın small doses ıs benefıcıal for the body electrolyte. Fluorıde ıs not. It ıs the most electronegatıve anıon and can strıp hydrogen from organıc molecules ın the body. Fluorıne ıs somethıng you never see - ıt ıs a gas and would kıll you. It etches glass.

There ıs only one form of fluorıde ıon F-. Catıon ıs ırrelevant once the salt ıs ın solutıon. We agree on somethıng at least...

[rodin]

Smart pools use sılver to control germs.

[Dogsmilk]

Just the last 50 years of pushing milk as a healthy drink, vital for strong bones. Say something often enough and it becomes "common knowledge" even if the science is no more than "lots of calcium in milk, lots of calcium in bones, QED."

Other than the obvious risk of a major part of the human diet being designed for baby cows and the glaringly obvious observation that the parts of the world most affected by brittle bones in old age tend to be the highest milk consumers - everything is just fine.

Many people do have problems tolerating high intake of milk products, just often they don't realise it and live with the problem their whole life. Excessive mucus is usually a good sign that you should cut down on the 3 glasses a day.

Quite.

Interestingly, my asthma got much better after I turned vegan. Hardly bothers me at all these days.

[Johnny Pixels]

Just the last 50 years of pushing milk as a healthy drink, vital for strong bones. Say something often enough and it becomes "common knowledge" even if the science is no more than "lots of calcium in milk, lots of calcium in bones, QED."

Other than the obvious risk of a major part of the human diet being designed for baby cows and the glaringly obvious observation that the parts of the world most affected by brittle bones in old age tend to be the highest milk consumers - everything is just fine.

Many people do have problems tolerating high intake of milk products, just often they don't realise it and live with the problem their whole life. Excessive mucus is usually a good sign that you should cut down on the 3 glasses a day.

Quite.

Interestingly, my asthma got much better after I turned vegan. Hardly bothers me at all these days.

Mine got better after absolutely no change to my diet.