zoomer wrote: xmasdale wrote:Hi Zoomer
I think it is important to realise that, though intriguing, proof of the fact that we have been lied to about 9/11 does not depend on occultist stuff. Publicly to link 9/11 to occultist research, particularly within the 9/11 Truth Campaign, deters many potential supporters from taking the Campaign seriously, as in their view and the view of the media and politicians, those who take the occult seriously are delusional. This stuff tends to divide opinion within the Campaign and therefore in my opinion should be kept separate.
This is VERy important point you raise. I learned very early the hostility talking about occultism in regard of 9/11, and the politcal ruling elite world in general can unleash. One forum I was at
www.sciforums.com --where i was trying to convert the sci-atheists , I began encouraging the exploration of the OCT. of course I got some stick, but it was when I brought up occultist clues is when the ------err adults turned into poop throwing maniacs. Some would openly insult me with hige text, etc with intention of closing down the threads, which is what happened. Really strange.
I respect you opinion, but my way is this. Things are So VERy bad, and urgent now. More so than we can imagine what with apsychopathic mindset running riot all over planet Earth. That for my part, there can be no holding back with whatever I feel the need to BE aware of in freedom...............? And to openly encourage others to be aware of. OTHERWISE myths continue to be spun. What I mean is that already the Truth movement as I explained has different poinsts of view exploring it. So , for example, there are Christians who see what is happening apcocalyptically, and they quote biblical passages from Revelations and so on. And it is many of these that have pointed out the occultist symbols being used by the elite. As well as questioning the OCT.
Then we have the David Ickian type perspective where he will speak of the elite being shape-shifting reptiles in contact with alien intelligences, and he also mentions about their occultist connection with anceint knowledge, etc.
then we have those who just focus on the actual event---what I call the 'nuts and bolts' of the happening, such as David Ray Griffin. Now, would I hound Professor Griffin to include in his talk about the occultist clues?..........NO. Why? Because what he is doing is INVALUABLE. How he meticulously exposes the OCT's 'facts'. And it would be incongrous to expect him to go into this area.............But this doesn't mean that members of the Truth Movement should believe that the exploration of occultist clues is
harmful to the Truth Movement, in regars it will 'divide' the Movement.
I don't say it is harmful to the Truth Movement, but harmful to the 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain and Ireland) which is trying to address the general public, politicians and the mainstream media. Most of our supporters don't seem to understand the difference. IMO the names are too similar. We need a clearer separation between the Campaign and the wider movement.
zoomer wrote:No. Rather I encourage for myself, and thus for others a flexible approach. Do not stifle your curiousity about all of this, nor in others.
I have no intention of stifling my or anyone else's curiosity, but I know what I want to work on: producing a campaign with a public face which is not anathema to most of the public and the media. If the campaign bombards them with information about every cover-up that exists in the world, they will not listen, the press will ridicule and we shall not make progress.
zoomer wrote:But if it's not your bag then don't go there. But allow others to. Allow freedom, because the elite wants total control!!!
people are fearful of the occultist stuff because of its unfamiliarity. I was very disturbed when I found hints about it, soon after 7/7 actually.
I think you misunderstand me here. You can speculate on this forum, which is a free-for-all, on any aspect you think has a baring on 9/11 and false flag terrorism, but the 9/11 Truth Campaign itself has to concentrate on the core evidence which proves we have been lied to about this. If we bring in theories which are controversial and peripheral, we shall minimise the number of people who take this campaign seriously. Let's take: beam weapons from outer space, HAARP, UFOs, illuminati, crop circles, chemtrails, Zionist plots, weather modification, deliberate policies of population reduction, end times, the Rapture, the Mayan calendar, ascended masters, aliens, the Greys, the Alice Bailey teachings, Urantia, nephilim, Annanuki and those bloody shape-shifting lizards. If you confront newcomers with all of that, even if some of these issues appeal to some of them, others of these issues will make them steer well clear of the Campaign on the grounds that in their opinion it is run by a bunch of hippy-dippy delusional nutcases.
The first time I heard about those lizards was from a friend who was trying to persuade me that the UK should withdraw from the EU. "On what grounds?" I asked.
"Well, you see," he replied, "The world is run by shape-shifting lizards."
At that point he lost me. It is a general maxim that if you want to persuade someone of something you need to start from facts that they accept. If you bombard them with theories that they don't accept as facts, even if all of them are true, rather than persuading them you lose them completely.
With evidence such as the collapse of WTC7 or the USAF failure to follow normal procedures and intercept planes within 10 minutes, who needs to bolster their argument with lizards?
You can argue that it goes down well with Ickeites, and indeed it does, but they are on board anyway. David Icke kindly allowed me to run a 9/11 Truth stall at his Brixton Academy gig last year and at it we got rid of more material than we have ever done at any other event - not surprisingly - Ickeites are already into 9/11.
To make a serious impact on public opinion we need to convince the millions of people who won't touch the esoteric stuff. That is why the Campaign for 9/11 Truth (Britain and Ireland) has set up two new websites to present the core evidence to the public:
http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ and 911action.net. The latter is currently suffering from hacking, but we will get it running eventually.
nineeleven.co.uk will be renamed and rejigged to broaden its remit. It will probably remain the most interesting discussion forum on false-flag terrorism.
zoomer wrote:I would have loved to have met her [Monika Sjoo]. have you read her book which goes in depth, exposing the New Age/Illuminati? titled The Return of the Dark Light Mother.
No. I read some of her earlier writing.
zoomer wrote:In fact mythology and religion have all been inspired by the various psychedelic vegetations,
xmasdale wrote:Probably. Mystics have experiences which give them insights. They then talk or write about these (which is extremely difficult to do in a way which people who have not had such experiences can understand) Such writings, especially if they were written long ago, no matter how imperfectly they are understood, then become institutionalised as infallible scriptures of various belief systems, often altered by the powers that be to suit their political agendas.
It is however also possible to achieve such trancendental states of mind without herbal or chemical catalysts through disciplines of meditation, prayer, fasting, diet, excercise etc
zoomer wrote:Actually psychedelic experience is very different from so-called mystical states. And the latter are fairly rare. Which is why from time immemorial anceint people, Indigenous peoples have used psychedelic drugs as a means to contact a deeper sense of self.
So-called 'mysticsm' follows entheogenic use. there are tales that when certain psychedelic vegetation became scarce, that methods would be used to hiopefully trgger spiritual experience.
But you know, this is complex because we have two very different attitudes towars psychedelic vegetation. From a Goddess religious understanding, sacred vegetation--as was ALL vegetation, etc--was a gift from the BODY of the Goddess, and so any experience as AWE of Nature.
But with the more philosophical 'mysticism' there happened the male-supremacist idea that 'truth' was above, away from Nature, in the stella regions, in a 'spiritual realm'. So the set&setting of their relationship with psychedelic substances would have mostly fortified their assumptions..
I don't deny the power of psychedelics - they certainly changed my outlook.
xmasdale wrote:I believe the birth of the Internet at this time gives humanity the potential to overthrow the grip that the PTB have on our minds and to usher in a new age of peace, truth, justice and sharing. I see the advent of the internet as equivalent to the advent of the written word at the birth of civilisation and of the printing press at the birth of the European Renaissance. But that's a hunch and a hope; I can't prove it.
I quite agree.
