Post which got Nazi apologist Nick Kollerstrom banned

[Thermate911]

So now we're back to the Protocols and the protocol deniers.

Hmm. Whether these diabolical writings were 'fake' or not, they do seem to be playing out roughly on schedule, nicht wahr?

Tony, is this 'Absurd Pronouncements' month at your local Ministry of Silly Walks or what?

[Andrew.]

Didn't take you long to promulgate the myths that fed Nazism Andrew.

"If anybody still has even a remote doubt that the entire menace of communism was created by the masterminds of the great conspiracy right in our own city of New York; I will cite the following historical fact. All records show that when Lenin and Trotsky engineered the capture of Russia; they operated as heads of the Bolshevik's party. Now "Bolshevism" is a purely Russian word. The masterminds realized that Bolshevism could never be sold as an ideology to any but the Russian people. So in April 1918; Jacob Schiff dispatched Colonel House to Moscow with orders to Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin to change the name of their regime to the Communist Party and to adopt the Karl Marx "Manifesto" as the constitution of the Communist Party. Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin obeyed; and in that year of 1918 was when the Communist party and the menace of communism came into being. All this is confirmed in Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition.

the German people to their former greatness. The conspirators then arranged for a wide circulation of the book among the German people in order to arouse a fanatical following for him. On his release from prison (also arranged by the conspirators); they began to groom and finance him to travel to other parts of Germany to deliver his rabble-rousing speeches. Soon he gathered a growing following among other veterans of the war, that soon spread to the masses, who began to see in him a saviour for their beloved Germany. Then came his leadership of what he called "his brown-shirt army" and the march on Berlin. That required a great deal of financing; but the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, and others of the conspirators provided all the money he needed. Gradually Hitler became the idol of the German people and they then overthrew the Von Hindenburg government and Hitler became the new F¸hrer. But that still was no reason for a war. The rest of the world watched Hitler's rise but saw no reason to interfere in what was distinctly a domestic-condition within Germany. Certainly none of the other Nations felt it was a reason for another war against Germany and the German people were not yet incited into enough of a frenzy to commit any acts against any neighboring nation; not even against France; that would lead to a war. The conspirators realized they would have to create such a frenzy; a frenzy that would cause the German people to throw caution to the winds and at the same time; horrify the whole world. And incidentally; "Mein Kampf" was actually a follow-up of Karl Marx's book: "A World Without Jews."

"The conspirators remembered how the Schiff-Rothschild gang had engineered the pogroms in Russia which slaughtered many, many thousands of Jews and created a world-wide hatred for Russia and they decided to use that same unconscionable trick to inflame the new Hitler led German people into a murderous-hatred of the Jews. Now it is true that the German people never had any particular affection for the Jews; but neither did they have an ingrained hatred for them. Such a hatred would have to be manufactured so Hitler was to create it. This idea more than appealed to Hitler. He saw in it the grisly gimmick to make him the "God-man" (christ) of the German people (with his self-proclaimed 1,000 year rule - Revelation 13:11-18 ).

"Thus craftily inspired and coached by his financial-advisers, the Warburgs, the Rothschilds, and all the Illuminati masterminds; he blamed the Jews for the hated "Versailles Treaty" and for the financial ruination that followed the war. The rest is history. We know all about the Hitler concentration-camps and the incineration of hundred of thousands of Jews. Not the 6,000,000 nor even the 600,000 claimed by the conspirators; but it was enough. And here let me reiterate how little the internationalist bankers, the Rothschilds, Schiffs, Lehmans, Warburgs, Barouks, cared about their racial brethren who were the victims of their nefarious schemes. In their eyes; the slaughter of the several hundred thousand innocent Jews by Hitler didn't bother them at all. They considered it a necessary sacrifice to further their Illuminati one-world plot just as the slaughter of the many millions in the wars that followed was a similar necessary sacrifice. And here is another grisly detail about those concentration-camps. Many of the Hitler soldier-executioners in those camps had previously been sent to Russia to acquire their arts of torture and brutalization so as to emphasize the horrors of the atrocities.

[Andrew.]

So now we're back to the Protocols and the protocol deniers.

Hmm. Whether these diabolical writings were 'fake' or not, they do seem to be playing out roughly on schedule, nicht wahr?

Tony, is this 'Absurd Pronouncements' month at your local Ministry of Silly Walks or what?

All spelt out and playing out.

Critics of the Protocols' genuineness have claimed that they were a forgery, derived from earlier documents and used as propaganda against the Jews by their opponents. As I hope I have shown here, the documents most certainly do derive from an earlier common source, but that does not make them forgeries, any more than latest encyclopaedia can be condemned as a deliberate forgery because previous works of an almost identical nature already exist.
This argument also falls down on another point, which actually operates in favour of the theory of the Jewish origin, rather than against it. It has often been argued that the Protocols bear remarkable likeness to a book called 'Dialogues aux Enfers entre Machiavelli et Montesquieu' (also known as the 'Geneva Dialogues'), published anonymously in Brussels in 1865. However, the passages quoted as being plagiarised from the Geneva Dialogues for the Protocols are remarkably similar to those in a book published in 1850, called, similarly, 'Machiavelli, Montesquieu and Rousseau' by Jacob Venedy. And Venedy was a Jew and a Freemason! He was a revolutionary and also a close associate of the Jew Karl Marx (real name Mordecai,) and Maurice Joly, the true author of the Geneva Dialogues! 'Marx's father Heinrich, whose original name was Hirschel ha-Levi, was the son of a rabbi and the descendant of talmudic scholars for many generations.' (Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1997). Marx's Communist Manifesto is clearly Illuminist, and very much in parallel with the Protocols.

[blackbear]

Andrew

Thanks for your informative postings.!

[Prole]

Karl Marx's book: "A World Without Jews.

Except that Marx never wrote a book with this title, it was a title given by an Austrian emigre to the US, Dagobert D. Runes, when he published a book of an article Marx wrote, aged 25, entitled 'On the Jewish Question'. which was itself a critique of Bruno Bauer's work of that title. Bauer was a virulent anti-Semite.

Shortly after, Marx and Engels broke sharply with Bruno Bauer and attacked him specifically in a critique of one of his works, "On the Jewish Question" and in other books that were critical of various Young Hegelians including Bauer, The Holy Family, and The German Ideology.

Then again, just as the title of this thread suggests, all history is open to both interpretation and falsification. Islamofacism anyone?

[Andrew.]

Except that Marx never wrote a book with this title, it was a title given by an Austrian emigre to the US, Dagobert D. Runes, when he published a book of an article Marx wrote, aged 25, entitled 'On the Jewish Question'. which was itself a critique of Bruno Bauer's work of that title. Bauer was a virulent anti-Semite.

Since they were in Germany it was written in German.

And (Karl Marx (real name Mordecai,)May 5, 1818 – March 14, 1883)

It was a reference to a follow-up many years later (Volume 1 of Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and Volume 2 in 1926)

All Public consumption propaganda. Including false contrast arguments and deceptions.

The House of Rothschild changed their surname name from Bauer to Rothschild.

"A World Without Jews" was a much later English language article, but containing the work of Zur Judenfrage (On the Jewish Question)

When (Karl Marx (real name Mordecai,) Was putting out public consumption propaganda much earlier.

On the Jewish Question is a work by Karl Marx, written in 1843, and first published in Paris in 1844 under the German title Zur Judenfrage in the Deutsch–Französische Jahrbücher. It was one of Marx's first attempts to deal with categories that would later be called the materialist conception of history.

The essay criticizes two studies by fellow Young Hegelian, Bruno Bauer on the attempt by Jews to achieve political emancipation in Prussia. Bauer argued that Jews can achieve political emancipation only if they relinquish their particular religious consciousness, since political emancipation requires a secular state, which he assumes does not leave any "space" for social identities such as religion. According to Bauer, such religious demands are incompatible with the idea of the "Rights of Man." True political emancipation, for Bauer, requires the abolition of religion.

Zur Judenfrage was first published by Marx and Arnold Ruge in February 1844 in the Deutsch–Französische Jahrbücher, a journal which ran only one issue. From December 1843 to October 1844, Bruno Bauer published the monthly Allgemeine Literatur-Zeitung (General Literary Gazette) in Charlottenburg (now Berlin). In it, he responded to the critique of his own essays on the Jewish question by Marx and others. Then, in 1845, Friedrich Engels and Marx published a polemic critique of the Young Hegelians titled The Holy Family. In parts[7] of the book, Marx again presented his views dissenting from Bauer's on the Jewish question and on political and human emancipation.

A French translation appeared 1850 in Paris in Hermann Ewerbeck's book Qu'est-ce que la bible d'après la nouvelle philosophie allemande?.

Putting out public consumption propaganda.

The Rheinische Zeitung ("Rhenish Newspaper") was a 19th-century German newspaper, edited most famously by Karl Marx.

The paper was founded on January 1, 1842 with a reformist pro-democracy editorial slant, providing an outlet for the Rhine region's middle-class and intellectuals, who were increasingly opposed to Prussian authoritarianism. Max Stirner published The False Principle of our Education in April, and Marx first published in the paper on May 5, 1842.

[insidejob]

Andrew

Quote:
"If anybody still has even a remote doubt that the entire menace of communism was created by the masterminds of the great conspiracy right in our own city of New York; I will cite the following historical fact. All records show that when Lenin and Trotsky engineered the capture of Russia; they operated as heads of the Bolshevik's party. Now "Bolshevism" is a purely Russian word. The masterminds realized that Bolshevism could never be sold as an ideology to any but the Russian people. So in April 1918; Jacob Schiff dispatched Colonel House to Moscow with orders to Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin to change the name of their regime to the Communist Party and to adopt the Karl Marx "Manifesto" as the constitution of the Communist Party. Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin obeyed; and in that year of 1918 was when the Communist party and the menace of communism came into being. All this is confirmed in Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition.

What is the source for this information? How credible is it?

[Thermate911]

Islamofascism anyone?

Certainly not, as it is just another semiotic loaded non-word coined by Zionists.

However, none of us can get away from the fact that Aryanism originated in Persia, hence some posters here feeling very dubious about Ahmedinajad, despite his recent pronouncement of hard and irrefutable truths...

@Andrew - you are most certainly on the right track here - confirmed by Tony trying desperately and ineffectively to 'put you down' ;-)

So the real point is not so much about NK, but people’s reaction to him when he has done no wrong in doing some research and it does fit in with the bigger picture as in fully aware. So now we come to the title of this thread and in view of being fully aware of this history, it’s backwards because it’s not he that is an a apologist, but the people who are trying to cover up what the Zionazi’s etc, did and still do. A large part of which is the false history, to hide their tracks and put the blame fully on others.

Perhaps it would help the 'flounderers' here, which at the moment appears to include 'our' editor & a 'leader' of the 9/11 Campaign, if you offered primary links to each quote, such as http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/5/1/ ... 69-76.html ?

So, we are unearthing gate-keeping here at the very least, in these terminal* days of anonymous, free cyber-dialogue.

* http://www.activistpost.com/2010/11/end ... enate.html

Perhaps every concerned researcher should now carefully examine their local archives to make sure they still have uncorrupted copies of all the relevant facts and details necessary for the day when an incorruptible ICC is once again feasible?

eg: http://s242816488.onlinehome.us/criminals/

(Please note that the above info is not really suitable for consumption by the flakey media amongst us, being far too close to unpalatable truths...)

[Andrew.]

What is the source for this information? How credible is it?

Hi insidejob, it's from the work mostly by
MYRON C. FAGAN

And many people have or are catching on that the Nazi Neocons (which are pro counterfeit Israel) and Marxist (Saul David Alinsky, method) Barack Obama are just actors for the NWO. The same as the so called Crown here has it’s actors in parliament both left and right etc.



----------


MYRON C. FAGAN

THE ILLUMINATI AND THE COUNSEL ON
FOREIGN RELATIONS



By MYRON C. FAGAN



(A Transcript) The Illuminati and CFR





ABOUT THE SPEAKER


"WHO'S WHO IN THE THEATER" has always been the Bible of the People in the Legitimate Theater. It never played Favorites, it told no lies, it Glorified nobody. It always was an unbiased HISTORY of the men and women in the Theater. It recorded only those who proved their worth in the one - AND ONLY ONE - testing place of the Theater. BROADWAY: That "WHO'S WHO" records the plays Myron C. Fagan wrote, directed and produced ... Dramas, Comedies, Melodramas, Mysteries, Allegories, Farces - many of them the most resounding "HITS" of their years. He arrived on Broadway in 1907, 19 years old, the youngest playwright in the history of the American Theater. In the following years he wrote and directed plays for many of the GREATS of those days ... Mrs. Leslie Carter, Wilton Lackaye, Fritz Leiber, Alla Nazimova, Jack Barrymore, Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., E.H. Southern, Julia Marlowe, Helen Morgan, etc, etc. He directed Charles M. Frohman, Belasco, Henry W. Savage, Lee Shubert, Abe Erlanger, George M. Cohan, etc, etc.. In the 5 years between 1925 and 1930 he wrote, personally directed, and produced twelve plays: "THE WHITE ROSE," "THUMBS DOWN," "TWO STRANGERS FROM NOWHERE," "MISMATES," "THE FASCINATING DEVIL," "THE LITTLE SPITFIRE," "JIMMY'S WOMEN," "THE GREAT POWER," "INDISCRETION," "NANCY'S PRIVATE AFFAIR," "SMART WOMAN," and "PETER FLIES HIGH."

During his early years; Mr. Fagan was also "Dramatic Editor" for "The Associated Newspapers," including the "New York Globe" and various Hearst newspapers. But in 1916 he took a "SABBATICAL" from the Theater and served as "Director of Public Relations" for Charles Evens Hughes; the Republican Candidate for the Presidency - he refused a similar post offered him for the Hoover campaign in 1928; thus, Mr. Fagan's career encompassed the Theater, Journalism and National Politics, and he is a proven expert in all those fields.

In 1930; Mr. Fagan came to Hollywood where he served as "Writer Director" with "Pathe Pictures, Inc.," then owned by Joseph P. Kennedy, father of the late President Jack Kennedy, and also at 20th Century Fox, and other Hollywood Film Studios. But he also continued in the Broadway Legitimate field.

In 1945, at the urgent request of John T. Flynn, the famous author of "THE ROOSEVELT MYTH," "WHILE WE SLEPT," "THE TRUE STORY OF PEARL HARBOR," etc.; Mr. Fagan attended a meeting in Washington D.C. where he was shown a set of micro-films and recordings of the SECRET meetings at Yalta attended only by Franklin Roosevelt, Alger Hess, Harry Hopkins, Stalin, Molotov, and Vishinsky when they hatched the plot to deliver the Balkans, Eastern Europe and Berlin to Stalin. As a result of that meeting; Mr. Fagan wrote two plays: "RED RAINBOW" (in which he revealed that entire plot) and "THIEVES PARADISE" (in which he revealed how those men plotted to create the "UNITED NATIONS" to be the "housing" for a so-called Communist One-World Government).

At the same time; Mr. Fagan launched a "ONE-MAN" crusade to unmask the Red Conspiracy in Hollywood to produce films that would aid that "ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT" plot. Out of that came into being the "CINEMA EDUCATIONAL GUILD." As a result of the work of this "C. E. G." organization (headed by Mr. Fagan, in 1947); came the Congressional Hearings at which more than 300 of Hollywood's, (also Radio and T.V.) most famous Stars, Writers, and Directors were unmasked as the chief activist of the Red Conspiracy. That was when the infamous "HOLLYWOOD TEN" were sent to prison.

IT WAS THE MOST SENSATIONAL EVENT OF THAT DECADE!

From that time on Mr. Fagan has devoted all of his time and efforts to writing monthly "NEWS BULLETINS" for "C. E. G." in which he has kept up the fight to alert the American people to the plot to destroy the sovereignty of the United States of America and the ensuing enslavement of the American people in a UNITED NATIONS' "One World Government."

In his sensational recording (this transcript); he reveals the beginning of the One World enslavement plot that was launched two centuries ago by one Adam Weishaupt, an apostate Catholic Priest who; FINANCED BY THE HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD, created what he called: "THE ILLUMINATI." Mr. Fagan describes (WITH DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE) how this ILLUMINATI became the instrument of the House of Rothschild to achieve a "One World Government" and how every War during the past two centuries was fomented by this ILLUMINATI. He describes how one Jacob H. Schiff was sent to the United States by the Rothschilds to further the ILLUMINATI plot and how Schiff plotted to get control of both the Democratic and the Republican Parties. How Schiff seduced our Congress and our Presidents to achieve control of our entire Money-System and create the Income Tax CANCER and how Schiff and his co-conspirators created the "COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS" to control our elected officials to gradually drive the U.S. into becoming an enslaved unit of a "UNITED NATIONS" One World Government.

In short this Recording (Transcript) is the most interesting and the most horrifying - AND FACTUAL - story of the most sensational plot in the history of the World. Everybody who loves our Country - who loves God - who would save Christianity, WHICH THE ILLUMINATI IS DEDICATED TO DESTROY - who would save our sons from dying on Korean, on Vietnam, on South African, and now on the battlefields of the Middle East, should hear this Recording. There is absolutely no doubt that anyone who DOES hear (read) this amazing story will join in the fight to save our Country and our Nation's Youth.

Myron Fagan's recording took place sometime in the 1960's. Please take the time to "VERIFY" the statements made herein. We don't expect you to take Mr. Fagan's word at face value. We suggest that you visit the "Law" and "Depository" libraries that are located throughout your state. The telephone numbers and addresses listed herein are most likely out of date as Mr. Fagan is no longer with us.

Continued @ http://jahtruth.co.uk/illumin.htm[/quote]

[Dogsmilk]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe people are spouting the same old nonsense around here. Like in this post -

Do you think ordinary innocent Jewish people do not need to know this too??

Emphatically YES! They most certainly need to know. The longer the wretched official story of this most vile of issues is swept under the carpet by misguided moderation on sites like this, the more likely it will be to the further detriment of ordinary non-Zionist Jews everywhere - the majority of whom are still so very scarred by the vile illusion Zion has cast over them for centuries. They are being set up for destruction - again - and sites like this are aiding and abetting that fall by dodging the issue.

How can Zionism have 'cast an illusion' over Jews 'for centuries' when Zionism only came into being in the 19th century and remained marginal for years?

I note 'no takers' on Edwin Black - silence - why is this do you think?

What about Edwin Black? For a start, Black is something of a sensationalist. For example, in his book he tries to make out he made some big discovery about the existence of the Havaara - yet Hannah Arendt and Heinz Hohne are two people I can think of OTTOMH who talked about it back in the 60s - in classic works that have remained in print to this day.
Quite what's supposed to be so exciting about the Havaara or Black's book is really quite beyond me.

@ian neal - the fact remains that Mr.Kollerstrom's 7/7 research was seminal and most effective. Perhaps this is contributory in some 'cercles' to the very smelly smokescreen that has been thrown up around him and his unfortunate choice of words?

Can you please explain exactly what 'research' Kollerstrom produced? The guy has a PhD, yet a 12 year old could easily replicate his 'research' by spending an afternoon copying and pasting from Holocaust denial websites.
He even used JudicialInc as a source - despite the fact it blatantly blames the Jews for anything and everything, it's written like a children's book for God's sake - and is about as academically rigorous as Mr Tickle. Someone at GCSE level should have sufficient ability to grasp it's fundamentally worthless as a source of information. Anyone with the most rudimentary grasp of history should instantly spot it's page on Auschwitz is/was (come to think of it I think the site is still down) a complete joke.
He trotted out ancient nonsense from Leuchter/Rudolf and totally ignored the fact what he was slavishly regurgitating was debunked a decade earlier.
He couldn't even deal with me - someone with a very basic knowledge - without having a tantrum and demanding my posts be censored - he flatly refused to debate anyone remotely knowledgeable, after stomping round the internet claiming he'd, er, debate anyone. The guy is, at best, a buffoon.

You should also explain why it was 'effective'. A few deniers expressed the predictable responses when he lost that university post and had his five minutes of fame, then promptly forgot about him. I've yet to see his 'research' have any impact in denier circles, let alone non-denier ones. This is hardly surprising given the excruciatingly poor, totally unoriginal and frankly remedial copy and paste nature of his 'research'.

Also, I find your idea that we post here merely to educate you troublesomely arrogant and somewhat egotistical. You're the least of our worries - probably!

Should we really accept history presented as a narrative full of lies?

Should we?

Anyone who can't see the parallels between all these 'official stories' is either thick, subverted or too frightened of the implications, IMO. With the Zionists now in full control of the District of Corruption, courtesy of electronic voting, war with Iran has become inevitable. Yet it always was, as Rothschild cannot abide the thought of usury-free banking...

It is WAY past time for a combined assault on the toweringly parasitic Bauer/Bayer family - they must be rendered toothless and powerless before they finally destroy everything compassionate humanity holds dear. I note the French are starting the right approach on December 7th...

Can you explain to me what's "official" about the Holocaust narrative? Last time I checked, the "official narrative" is the product of academic historians all over the world, many of them German. If that makes the Holocaust narrative "official", I'd be interested to hear if, say, the historical consensus the Norman conquest happened is also an "official story" - if so, how does this "official" bit work? If not, why not?

Oh and please don't trot something out about anti-denial laws - I live in the UK where there isn't such a law.
Incidentally, I've noticed people who beat that drum invariably couldn't care less about laws banning denial of commie antics. I wonder why that is.

[Andrew.]

However, none of us can get away from the fact that Aryanism originated in Persia, hence some posters here feeling very dubious about Ahmedinajad, despite his recent pronouncement of hard and irrefutable truths...

Ahmedinajad is Arabic, Aryanism type people are white skinned; hence the racism associated with it. Ashkenazi people are not Sem-itic, (Shem) but from Japheth, but were brothers (white skinned) and not Israelite or Jews. As were the Edomites from Japheth who had intermarried with many Turkish people after the fall in 72 AD. Hence Hitler’s obsession with white skinned Aryan, Ashkenazi people. Hence showing no Godly spiritual meanings, because it does not matter what body a person is in.

An Israelite is someone who does God’s Will regardless of what body those Souls are in. Showing to those who can see that they are atheist, because in the bigger picture they the souls in whatever body they are in of the NWO people, cannot succeed spiritually. As God decides what Soul gets what body right the way up to Judgment day, which obviously means thousands of generations of whatever bodies we will have had and come to use in the future. Unless that Soul gets reaped.

[item8]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe people are spouting the same old nonsense around here.

Thought it was safe to take your work elsewhere did you? Its amazing how you ignore months of 9/11 and NWO articles/news but dive in whenever Zionism needs defending.

[Thermate911]

...Its amazing how you ignore months of 9/11 and NWO articles/news but dive in whenever Zionism needs defending.

Post Goldstone report and psychotic Rabbis * excepted, it amazes me far more to still encounter people of any race, creed or religion prepared to defend the indefensible.

* http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/Jewish ... ?id=191782

Ahmedinajad is Arabic

Don't let the Saudis catch you saying that ;-)

How can Zionism have 'cast an illusion' over Jews 'for centuries' when Zionism only came into being in the 19th century and remained marginal for years?

The names change, the diabolical aims remain the same. Zion goes back such a long, long way...

Re: http://www.stockmaven.com/transfer_A.htm

The Transfer Agreement:
The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine
by Edwin Black

What about Edwin Black? For a start, Black is something of a sensationalist. For example, in his book he tries to make out he made some big discovery about the existence of the Havaara - yet Hannah Arendt and Heinz Hohne are two people I can think of OTTOMH who talked about it back in the 60s - in classic works that have remained in print to this day.
Quite what's supposed to be so exciting about the Havaara or Black's book is really quite beyond me.

"Exciting" seems inappropriate; "diabolical" more apt. So you're doing (as one example amongst far too many) to Black what Heiser did to Sitchin, then finally had to retract; ignore the content and implications; attack the author.

Where have we all seen this tactic before?

Dogsmilk, regardless of who brought the facts to light, can you disagree with the established facts surrounding the parts played in the Havaara by, amongst others, Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Levi Eshkol or Moshe Shertok (who since changed his name)?

Let's keep this all fact based and leave the myth-making to the likes of Regev and the congress clowns.

As for the mire in which NK finds himself, same applies, really. P*ss off Zionists; have your life turned upside down and ruined.

However, rapidly increasing numbers of 'your cattle' are so very sick and tired of both Zionist AND Thule murderous lying thugs, that they are now going quite beyond caring for personal safety. For the sake of sanity and a better world for future generations, the truth must prevail over the wall of Zionist & Thule lies built on fear. This means stamping out self-serving lies everywhere - Yeah, even unto the face you see in your mirror...

[Dogsmilk]

The names change, the diabolical aims remain the same. Zion goes back such a long, long way...

Really? So how does that work then?

Re: http://www.stockmaven.com/transfer_A.htm

The Transfer Agreement:
The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine
by Edwin Black

What about Edwin Black? For a start, Black is something of a sensationalist. For example, in his book he tries to make out he made some big discovery about the existence of the Havaara - yet Hannah Arendt and Heinz Hohne are two people I can think of OTTOMH who talked about it back in the 60s - in classic works that have remained in print to this day.
Quite what's supposed to be so exciting about the Havaara or Black's book is really quite beyond me.

"Exciting" seems inappropriate; "diabolical" more apt. So you're doing (as one example amongst far too many) to Black what Heiser did to Sitchin, then finally had to retract; ignore the content and implications; attack the author.

Where have we all seen this tactic before?

Dogsmilk, regardless of who brought the facts to light, can you disagree with the established facts surrounding the parts played in the Havaara by, amongst others, Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Levi Eshkol or Moshe Shertok (who since changed his name)?

Let's keep this all fact based and leave the myth-making to the likes of Regev and the congress clowns.

I didn't 'attack the author', I pointed out he sensationalises things and tries to make out he's telling some incredibly dramatic 'untold' story.

What's supposed to be "diabolical" I really don't know. In essence, the Havaara meant Jews could emigrate to Palestine while not being totally robbed blind as had been been occurring with other emigrants. This suited the Zionists for obvious reasons and obviously suited the Nazis who, being rabid anti-semites, were more than happy to have Jews buggering off abroad. It was a pragmatic relationship that suited both parties at that particular time.
Or what? Where's this "diabolical" come into it? What's everyone supposed to be getting their knickers in a twist about?

As for the mire in which NK finds himself, same applies, really. P*ss off Zionists; have your life turned upside down and ruined.

However, rapidly increasing numbers of 'your cattle' are so very sick and tired of both Zionist AND Thule murderous lying thugs, that they are now going quite beyond caring for personal safety. For the sake of sanity and a better world for future generations, the truth must prevail over the wall of Zionist & Thule lies built on fear. This means stamping out self-serving lies everywhere - Yeah, even unto the face you see in your mirror...

Can you please explain why the Holocaust/Holocaust denial is supposed to be about "Zionists" specifically? Same with Item 8 - but I already know he's a moron incapable of anything but pasting articles.
I know it's fashionable these days to bestow supernatural powers on the "Zionists" and blame them for every problem in the world - best I can tell this dates back to Willis Carto replacing "Jew" with "Zionist" to look politically correct. And Lo! The standard Jewish conspiracy theory gets a makeover and appropriates criticism of Israeli behaviour towards Palestinians into the bargain. So we can sagely agree the "Zionists" control everything - banking, the media etc - but with their awesome powers of global control, invisible to all but indefatigable warriors for truth engaged in their painstaking research of browsing conspiracy websites on the internet, they've been persistently unable to get rid of those pesky Palestinians and tackle some dudes with a few rockets and suicide vests. Hell, for all their media control, they can't even keep Israel off the news, when there's heavy sh"t going down in other countries you might just catch on unreported world or something if you're lucky. If a Zionist conspiracy this inept is managing to control the world, then the rest of us must be totally useless.

If you want a better world for future generations, it might be better to realise the real world isn't like star wars and neatly divisible into some Manichean fantasy All Powerful Enemy Of Us All and the online Rebel Alliance armed with Nick Kollerstrom's special needs version of history which will save us all somehow.

It might have been better if instead of spouting a load of rhetoric, you'd actually answered the questions I asked you. That would have been nice.

[Prole]

I am posting some of the prophetic writings of Trotsky on what is referred to as 'the Jewish problem'. Written from exile whilst Stalin was plotting his murder and on the brink of WWII when the most barbaric fate faced workers who were by dint of birth Jewish, he wrote:

Some would-be “pundits” have accused me of “suddenly” raising the “Jewish question” and of intending to create some kind of ghetto for the Jews. I can only shrug my shoulders in pity. I have lived my whole life outside of Jewish circles. I have always worked in the Russian workers movement. My native tongue is Russian. Unfortunately, I have not even learned to read Jewish. The Jewish question, therefore, has never occupied the center of my attention.

But that does not mean that I have the right to be blind to the Jewish problem which exists and demands a solution. “The friends of the USSR” are satisfied with the creation of Birobidjan. I will not stop at this point to consider whether it was built on a sound foundation and what type of regime existed there (Birobidjan cannot help reflecting all the vices of bureaucratic despotism). But not a single progressive thinking individual will object to the USSR designating a special territory for those of its citizens who feel themselves to be Jews, who use the Jewish language in preference to all others, and who wish to live as a compact mass.

Is this or is this not a ghetto? During the period of Soviet democracy, of completely voluntary migration, there could be no talk of ghettoes. But the Jewish question and the very manner in which settlements of Jews occurred, assumes an international aspect. Are we not correct in saying that a world socialist federation will have to make possible the creation of a Biro-bidjan for those Jews who wish to have their own autonomous republic as the arena for their own culture?

It may be presumed that a socialist democracy will not resort to compulsory assimilation. It may very well be that within two or three generations the boundaries of an independent Jewish republic, as of many other national regions, will be erased. I have neither time nor desire to meditate on this. Our descendants will know better than we what to do. I have in mind a transitional historical period when the Jewish “question” as such, is still acute and demands adequate measures from a world federation of workers’ states.

The very same methods of solving the Jewish question which under decaying capitalism will have a utopian and reactionary character (Zionism) will, under the regime of a socialist federation take on real and salutary meaning. This is what I want to point out. How could any Marxist or even any consistent democrat object to this?

1937

* * *

III

Dear Friend: Father Coughlin, who apparently tries to demonstrate that the absolute idealistic moral does not prevent man from being the greatest rascal, has declared over the radio that in the past I received enormous sums of money for the revolution from the Jewish bourgeoisie in the United States. I have already answered in the press that this is false. I did not receive such money, not, of course, because I would have refused financial support for the revolution, but because the Jewish bourgeoisie did not offer this support. The Jewish bourgeoisie remains true to the principle: not to give, even now when its head is concerned. Suffocating in its own contradictions, capitalism directs enraged blows against the Jews, moreover a part of these blows fall upon the Jewish bourgeoisie in spite of all its past “service” for capitalism. Measures of a philanthropical nature for refugees become less and less efficacious in comparison with the gigantic dimension of the evil burdening the Jewish people.

Now it is the turn of France. The victory of fascism in this country would signify a vast strengthening of reaction, and a monstrous growth of violent anti-semitism in all the world, above all in the United States. The number of countries which expel the Jews grows without cease. The number of countries able to accept them decreases. At the same time the exacerbation of the struggle intensifies. It is possible to imagine without difficulty what awaits the Jews at the mere outbreak of the future world war. But even without war the next development of world reaction signifies with certainty the physical extermination of the Jews .

Palestine appears a tragic mirage, Biro-bidjan a bureaucratic farce. The Kremlin refuses to accept refugees. The “anti-fascist” congresses of old ladies and young careerists do not have the slightest importance. Now more than ever, the fate of the Jewish people—not only their political but also their physical fate—is indissolubly linked with the emancipating struggle of the international proletariat. Only audacious mobilization of the workers against reaction, creation of workers’ militia, direct physical resistance to the fascist gangs, increasing self-confidence, activity and audacity on the part of all the oppressed can provoke a change in the relation of forces, stop the world wave of fascism, and open a new chapter in the history of mankind.

The Fourth International was the first to proclaim the danger of fascism and to indicate the way of salvation. The Fourth International calls upon the Jewish popular masses not to delude themselves but to face openly the menacing reality. Salvation lies only in revolutionary struggle. The “sinews” of revolutionary struggle, as of war, are funds. With the progressive and perspicacious elements of the Jewish people rests the obligation to come to the help of the revolutionary vanguard. Time presses. A day is now equivalent to a month or even to a year. That thou doest, do quickly!

December 22, 1938

The attempt to solve the Jewish question through the migration of Jews to Palestine can now be seen for what it is, a tragic mockery of the Jewish people. Interested in winning the sympathies of the Arabs who are more numerous than the Jews, the British government has sharply altered its policy toward the Jews, and has actually renounced its promise to help them found their “own home” in a foreign land. The future development of military events may well transform Palestine into a bloody trap for several hundred thousand Jews. Never was it so clear as it is today that the salvation of the Jewish people is bound up inseparably with the overthrow of the capitalist system.

July, 1940

I've posted this as a response to the filthy sewage that one is forced to wade through when reading some of the posts on this thread. The vast majority of these would sit well with Conspiratology or even Stormfront. Trotsky's actual words shine like a beacon in comparison.

[Andrew.]

Written from exile whilst Stalin was plotting his murder and on the brink of WWII when the most barbaric fate faced workers who were by dint of birth Jewish, he wrote:

That is precisely what we are saying prole, the ideology of Zionism (or what ever label) has done and still does, which does include the murder of Jews also; which has been repeatedly said through this thread. It’s on record of the so called PTB saying this as a necessary sacrifice. So they, the so called PTB, can gain the world for themselves alone.

It needs more Jewish people to *speak out about it, the same as anyone else. The same as people should speak out about none Jews, when they do wrong.

But the fact is Jews (but not all Jews) play the biggest part in it, as those that do follow that ideology, for such a long time have been running the banks and industry, politics, quote (capitalist system.) Etc etc.


*People will and do think that they don't, because they feel safe with the status que, because they are Jews. And that is a disaster waiting to happen.


(edit)Prole, the “communist manifesto”: why collect everything to the state (who happen to be the same people who run the banks and quote (capitalist system) in the first place if the intention is to share it all out.

[blackbear]

Trotsky's actual words read like the ones of a racial supremacist. I am sure the Usury merchants liked him.

Prole,...the filthy sewage that one is forced to wade through ......

Reminds me of the sewage that the settlers pour on the lands of Palestinians.

I wonder what Trotsky would think of the Homeland for the Jews.....taday. A racist, supremacist, genocidal state.

? for Prole Who gains from Israel in the Middle East. Is it the colonial powers in US/Europe. They have benefited via the maintainence of exploitative trade relations, 'inexplicably' low resource pricing (1980-2000 particularly), & arms sales (into middle east).

Or

Alice the Kurious

Yes, that's the theory -- in fact, that is the exact selling point that Israeli strategists have used to attract a succession of empires and aspiring empires to sponsor their cause. The zionists promised the Ottomans, the British, the Nazis, the Soviets, the French, and now the Americans, that Israel would be their very own tool, their key to dominating the region's vast strategic resources and through them, eventually much of the world. But as the Ottomans, the British, the Nazis, the Soviets, the French all discovered in turn, and as the Americans will find out when it's too late, Israel is no tail for any dog to wag. Its own agenda calls for the use of existing empires to lay the groundwork, at their own cost, for Israel's own eventual emergence as a hegemonic power in its own right.

How? How can such a "tiny", resource-poor state become a global hegemonic power? Simple: by controlling the flow of vital strategic resources that other countries can't do without. The Achilles' heel of the most important economies in Europe and Asia is their crippling dependence on imported fuel. Israel aims to control them by controlling their access to the vital supplies they can't do without, and destroying or preventing alternative transportation routes (such as the one that was planned to go through Afghanistan, to name but one example). A good, concise introductory overview of just how it intends to achieve this can be found here

http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_oil_and_il.pdf

Oil and Israel..By Andrea Crandall

Debate on the motivation for the Iraq War is shepherded into two camps: securing oil or securing Israel. In reality, the war
is being fought to secure oil through Israel. US foreign policy is geared to make Israel its primary transport route for
Middle Eastern and Central Asian oil. This also accomplishes two Israeli aims: ending dependence on US aid and
toppling uncooperative neighbors.

Richard Perle's memo to Benjamin Netanyahu, “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing The Realm,”[1] is rightfully
cited as evidence of Israel's influence in the US's decision to attack Iraqi. However, overthrowing Saddam is not the main
point of this memo. The “clean break” refers to ending Israel's dependence on US aid, which weakens Israel, and is the
main source of control the US has over its ally.......

[Andrew.]

I wonder what Trotsky would think of the Homeland for the Jews.....taday. A racist, supremacist, genocidal state.

Which the PTB will sacrifice it’s people there as most of the PTB don’t live there, nor will presumably those PTB that do live there when they do so.

(edit) I know you most likely know this blackbear.
The three world wars were planned over one hundred and fifty years ago, this as the last and ultimate false flag. Or Russia, China and others, will do it for them as we in the west become a bigger and bigger threat to them. If we don’t stop what we the west/or those that do in the west, are doing.

[Prole]

Israel isn't the only racist supremacist genocidal state is it though? History shows that British Imperialism perfected this in great swathes of the globe.

[Andrew.]

Israel isn't the only racist supremacist genocidal state is it though? History shows that British Imperialism perfected this in great swathes of the globe.

Who predominantly and increasingly has been running the British for centuries prole, have you never read Shakespeare? (and counterfeit Israel)

But yes I wont defend the corrupt evil people who have gone along with the said feudal system regardless if they are Jews or none Jews (so called). So why do you keep defending those that are very evil people that happen to also be Jews (so called)

[Prole]

Andrew I have no intention of engaging with your sick arguments and questioning. I suggest you read what dogsmilk has said with an open mind if you are capable of such a thing. I'm only posting on here in the vain hope that others might read the actual facts or source documents rather than the twisted conspiratologist version promoted by the likes of you, blackbear and others.

[Andrew.]

Andrew I have no intention of engaging with your sick arguments and questioning. I suggest you read what dogsmilk has said with an open mind if you are capable of such a thing. I'm only posting on here in the vain hope that others might read the actual facts or source documents rather than the twisted conspiratologist version promoted by the likes of you, blackbear and others.

Ok a simple question, if someone is said to be Jewish, does that mean that it is impossible for them to do bad (evil) things the same as anyone else and/or are they a master race that can do no wrong?

[blackbear]

Hello Prole

I was thinking of how to reply to the following:

Israel isn't the only racist supremacist genocidal state is it though?

Are you trying to excuse, show understanding, or even show empathy with Israel. Does operation Cast Lead mean anything to you.?

From your dialogue with Andrew, the following sewage flows:

..I suggest you read what dogsmilk has said...(. by your friends.)

.. twisted conspiratologist version promoted by the likes of you, blackbear

Did you actually read the words of Alice the Kurious..a superb commentator on the Middle East, etc

I am aware of some aspects of British Imperialism; like the Irish famine, and the location of the war Graves of Ireland.

Prole

Who or what are you ...smug,ignorant, or simply a sad Zionazi controlled muppet.!

[item8]

Same with Item 8 - but I already know he's a moron incapable of anything but pasting articles.

All of which you seem to be aware of but none of which are worthy of comment even though months of such postings have passed. Because they don't flag up the "Holocaust Denial" drivel which is your only point of reference of course. My posts merely reference the Israeli bombing of the London underground on 7/7/2005 and the Mossad murder of 3,000 defenceless people in New York on September 11th 2001. As well as the deliberate demolition of the world's economies by Jewish groups such as AIPAC. No worries. Its Muslims wot dun it 'cos Dogsmilk and his evil kind say so. All we have to do is support the continuing demonisation of Islam and the coming attack on Iran because the Zionists/Jews/Dogsmilks say so.

[Dogsmilk]

Duplicate

[Thermate911]

@Dogsmilk - I'm not going to bother responding in depth as, apart from your classic trailing of red herrings whilst ignoring the documented actions of the 'players' of that obscene time, you are arguing from the POV of a hardened psychopath. (eg: however tongue-in-cheek your signature line may be, how can it possibly be 'a man's life in MOSSAD' when all they do is deceive and destroy? Some 'man'!!). As for Zion: Just one name for you: Adam Weishaupt. Take it from there, if you're not prepared to journey back to Ur...

The rest is for general consumption but you could do well (better?) to take it to heart...

---
The Israeli war criminal list is now getting a lot of media attention:-
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2010/ ... t-in-gaza/

And a note on "The Dancing Israelis" (I am personally not impressed with the elisions in this piece; that's why I haven't posted it to the 9/11 section):-

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2010/11/r ... dence.html

Release of the ‘Dancing Israelis’, Coincidence or Blackmail?
By Doug Steil | Aletho News | November 16, 2010

By now, after nine years, anyone who has seriously looked into the circumstances surrounding 9/11 has read about the so-called “five dancing Israelis“, who, according to reports, had set up across the Hudson River “to document the event” (in their own words) in Manhattan, even before the crash of the first airplane coming from the north into the World Trade Center tower.

These “dancing Israelis”, as we can all surmise, were Mossad operatives, who were involved in operational aspects of the Zionist attack on lower Manhattan that fateful day, September 11, 2001. Two additional “suspects”, who were surely also part of the same Israeli operational team, were arrested on the approach to the George Washington Bridge, and, as was reported live that evening on the televised News (before this aspect to the story was buried), their van was laden with tons of explosives. (Though media reports may not have explicitly identified the people in the vans with explosives as Israeli, there should be little doubt that they were all part of the same team.)

There are two important aspects in conjunction with the 9/11 event in New York that have been virtually ignored even in the alternative media, which deserve closer scrutiny. One point involves the possible large-scale catastrophe that may have been induced by these operatives with explosives if they had not been apprehended as their van was about to drive onto the George Washington Bridge. The second aspect concerns the suspicious circumstances surrounding the crash of Flight 587, on November 12, 2001, more than nine years ago, in conjunction with the inexplicable release, just a few days later, of the “dancing Israelis” and other agents who had been involved in the 9/11 operation, including those who may have been on their way to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

By stalling the van at the middle of the bridge and getting away in time, a directed high-power explosion at that spot along the side might certainly have done some serious damage to a section of this bridge, given the dual cables per side , each slightly less than 36 inches in diameter. Most likely a truck explosion in itself would not have ripped both cables. But then, perhaps such a truck explosion was merely meant to serve as a low-tech trigger – to provide an explanation to the public, for why both cables on one side could have ripped – which itself would have been achieved by detonating a prepared coat of micro-thermite around the cables, just as the WTC towers were detonated by micro-thermite placed at crucial points along the structure weeks in advance, though the Government unconvincingly blamed structural failure caused by impacting airplanes and resulting fires. In light of what is known about the explosive thermite at the three WTC towers that were imploded into their footprint, it is not implausible, that the George Washington Bridge was also targeted for destruction that day, but this aspect of the operation was completely botched due to the van being intercepted. Just a few months earlier, in May, modifications to the George Washingtom Bridge were completed. Who would have ever noticed if coatings of micro-thermite were being applied during this renovation project ? Below are some quotes from NYRoads:

The project involved the rehabilitation of girders, columns, bridge decks, drainage and electrical systems, and roadway surfaces. New roadway expansion joints, guardrails, crash barriers, signs and lighting were also installed. The $38 million project was completed in May 2001.

Some pertinent questions arise in this context. Might some “follow-up work” of minor scope have been performed after the reported May completion date, shortly before 9/11, under the guise that something had not initially been done properly and thus needed to be corrected? What companies were involved in that multi-million dollar contract, and which companies were involved in the subsequent project, which would have removed any traces of micro-thermite coating that, according to this presumptive scenario, was applied more than nine years ago?

In 2002, the Port Authority began work to repaint the 604-foot-tall towers and the underside of the upper deck. Workers are removing older coats of lead-based paint, and are applying a three-coat paint system that includes a zinc primer, epoxy intermediate coat and a urethane topcoat. The $85 million project was completed in 2006.

Some investigative scrutiny of this previously neglected topic could certainly help in putting more pieces of the puzzle together, regarding what appears to have been planned as a spectacular and explosive encore on that ‘Demolition Day’, featuring live helicopter video of a major suspension bridge falling into the Hudson River, with only its two towers remaining. If one assumes that these putative Israeli suspects, disguised in Arab clothing, were prevented by their arrest at the on-ramp to the bridge from perpetrating a major crime – this would subsequently have impacted millions of people who commute between New Jersey and Manhattan – one can understand that it would take substantial pressure to get them released from custody. And we know from numerous reports, that they were all released just before Thanksgiving.

But why were these Isareli operatives ever released given their involvement? According to a report written by Christopher Ketcham, the Ha’aretz newspaper claimed that high-level Zionists in America were actively involved in obtaining their release:

Following what ABC News reported were “high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials”, a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects. Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government.

These high-level efforts may not have been sufficient, given that these captured agents were certainly involved in more than event documentation or simply driving moving vans. Perhaps a bit more high-level pressure was required to get these people ‘moving’ again. In this context, an interesting aspect that has not been widely reported is the fact that, just a week before their eventual release, American Airlines Flight 587 crashed after takeoff from Kennedy Airport in Queens. Though it was not widely reported – on the contrary, it appears that once again there was a big cover-up in this matter – the likely cause, according to a credible expert, was sabotage:

Expert Marshall Smith opined, “A single point failure, the in-flight actuation of the left engine thrust reverser, can account for all three observed phenomena of the clean breaking off of the tail and the failure of both pylons holding the engines.”

The mechanical engineer, aviation ground school instructor and former NASA adviser painted this scenario: During the night, a terrorist saboteur disguised as a ground crew mechanic reached up in the back of the left jet engine of the American Airlines Airbus and cut the hydraulic line going to the thrust reverser actuator and the control safety sensor lines.

Knowing the conventional path that the airliner would fly upon takeoff from Kennedy Airport on its course to Santo Domingo in the Caribbean Sea, the saboteurs could be almost certain that the plane would eventually crash into the water, thus making recovery of evidence and probable cause analysis more difficult, along with the minimized possibility of any inconvenient revelations possibly leaking out to the public. As it turned out, the jet crashed onto the narrow land strip, in a neighborhood in Rockaway Park, (“the Irish Riviera“).

Let us look at the timeline of the week long period between the crash of AA587 and the release of the Israeli agents a few days later. Flight 587 crashed on Veteran’s Day, Monday November 12, 2001. According to reports, the Mossad agents were released after “71 days” in custody. Anyone can easily verify the accuracy of the timeline implied by the headline, which indicates the week long period between the crash and the release of the agents: Assuming that September 11 already counts as a day, that yields 20 days in September, 31 days in October and 20 days in November (the last day presumably not a full day), thus Tuesday, November 20. The decision to release them must have come on the day before, Monday, November 19, in order to make arrangements to fly them back to Israel. On that day the New York Times published a prepared story, pushing the highly questionable notion of composite tail fin stress as the presumptive cause of the accident. This unsupported claim appears to be another case of contrived media misdirection (an endeavor the NYT is proficient in), to distract the public from the issue of sabotage.

It is reasonable to assume, however, that if by then the Government had already concocted and propagated a technically unlikely explanation — one that blamed the manufacturer Airbus for an alleged design flaw in conjunction with pilot over-reaction to vortexes from an airplane ahead — the technically far more plausible cause of the crash, which was consistent with observations from witnesses and physical evidence at the crash site, would have already been apparent to investigators and experts, such as the man whose assessment of sabotage is cited in the story cited above. Those who had the opportunity to examine the left engine could easily have corroborated the sabotage. (This raises the question, if one of the numerous investigators became upset that the matter was being covered up and talked about it with others.)

Based on the timeline, these Israeli operatives would have arrived back in Israel not before November 21. They appeared on the talk show sometime before the end of the month, after a few days of intensive de-briefing.

Thanksgiving Day was on November 22, so that any possible news of their release from custody and arrival back in Israel would have easily been drowned out as Americans were focusing on that major holiday.

[Dogsmilk]

Same with Item 8 - but I already know he's a moron incapable of anything but pasting articles.

All of which you seem to be aware of but none of which are worthy of comment even though months of such postings have passed. Because they don't flag up the "Holocaust Denial" drivel which is your only point of reference of course. My posts merely reference the Israeli bombing of the London underground on 7/7/2005 and the Mossad murder of 3,000 defenceless people in New York on September 11th 2001. As well as the deliberate demolition of the world's economies by Jewish groups such as AIPAC. No worries. Its Muslims wot dun it 'cos Dogsmilk and his evil kind say so. All we have to do is support the continuing demonisation of Islam and the coming attack on Iran because the Zionists/Jews/Dogsmilks say so.

Actually I was referring to your epic thread with chek which was around the last time I read this forum with any regularity. Though it was on a subject I don't myself know anything about, it was abundantly clear who was able to think critically and formulate arguments for themselves based on sources and who was entirely reliant on spamming articles they'd googled.

But now we make a sudden jump from Kollerstrom and his supposed 'research' - and nobody seems able to explain exactly what Holocaust 'research' he's supposed have done - to The Global Jewish Conspiracy. Teh jooos did 7/7 and 911. Because teh jooos control everything and everyone is helpless in the face of their awesome Jewish super powers. Or else perhaps Britain and America and their intelligence agencies just haven't got round to reading whatever you have on teh interwebs.
Just like teh jooos' "deliberate demolition" of the world's economy - that's just the kind of stuff Jews do isn't it? Because obviously capitalism is inherently perfectly stable and no reckless behaviour ever just happens or anything. The Jews make it all happen deliberately. So they can control the world. Despite apparently doing so already. Or maybe if you control the world economy the last thing you want is a stable economic climate. Or something.
No worries. It's Jews wot dunnit. If we're not going to demonise Muslims, let's demonise Jews instead. We can even chuck in some arbitrary straw manning such as apparently me supporting an attack on Iran. Which obviously may occur at some point, but seems to have been imminent any day now on forums for oooh a few years now. If such a conflict occurs, people will be fervently claiming their Mystic Meg powers of divining world affairs, if it doesn't they'll quietly forget whatever they said. Because the truth is you or anybody else on this forum doesn't have any more idea about whether it will actually kick off with Iran than Megan the checkout girl at Iceland and if it does exactly when it will happen.

Just out of interest, exactly how are you suggesting MOSSAD pulled off 7/7 and 911? I don't mean copying and pasting stuff about the 'dancing Israelis' - which if they were in any way involved would make MOSSAD look spectacularly inept - or whatever. I mean a coherent, convincing narrative in your own words offering tangible evidence as opposed to the usual innuendo, isolated factoids, here's some prominent Jews etc.

But really all of this is a massive derail anyway. The original subject was Kollerstrom and his attempts to whitewash the Nazis. The blunt fact is that Kollerstrom's Holocaust 'essays' are inexcusably dire for someone educated to PhD level and read as either deliberate mendacity or someone incredibly gullible and stupid who stumbled across Holocaust denial websites and just believed every word. As I said before, it simply beggars belief that someone educated to PhD level would use JudicialInc as a source. Let alone Rense.

Incidentally -
Even the most ardent critic of the truth movement cannot deny it has been proactive. There have been numerous groups, demonstrations, film screenings etc in the time honoured tradition of the issue based movement. Rather than trying to piggyback onto the truth movement where it causes conflict, I would suggest a separate 'Holocaust truth movement' for Holocaust deniers. I suggested this on the Icke forum, but curiously nobody was interested, even the most vocal Holocaust deniers. I'm all for it for the comedy value, but I suspect people realised they'd just make fools of themselves or else realised they'd find themselves surrounded by neo-Nazis. But if it's an issue people are into, why not? Why not form Holocaust truth groups and avoid trying to hitch a ride on the 911 truth movement? Hell, you could have a 'Jews are behind everything' truth movement.
So for all the Kollerstrom groupies here, I'm suggesting a Holocaust truth movement, perhaps kicked off with a Holocaust truth march. Armed with Mr Kollerstrom's "seminal" research, how could it fail? I'm sure he'd be more than willing to lend his academic weight to the project by surfing the web a bit and copying and pasting his findings.

[Dogsmilk]

@Dogsmilk - I'm not going to bother responding in depth as, apart from your classic trailing of red herrings whilst ignoring the documented actions of the 'players' of that obscene time, you are arguing from the POV of a hardened psychopath. (eg: however tongue-in-cheek your signature line may be, how can it possibly be 'a man's life in MOSSAD' when all they do is deceive and destroy? Some 'man'!!). As for Zion: Just one name for you: Adam Weishaupt. Take it from there, if you're not prepared to journey back to Ur...

The rest is for general consumption but you could do well (better?) to take it to heart...

---
The Israeli war criminal list is now getting a lot of media attention:-
http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2010/ ... t-in-gaza/

And a note on "The Dancing Israelis" (I am personally not impressed with the elisions in this piece; that's why I haven't posted it to the 9/11 section):-

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2010/11/r ... dence.html

Release of the ‘Dancing Israelis’, Coincidence or Blackmail?
By Doug Steil | Aletho News | November 16, 2010

By now, after nine years, anyone who has seriously looked into the circumstances surrounding 9/11 has read about the so-called “five dancing Israelis“, who, according to reports, had set up across the Hudson River “to document the event” (in their own words) in Manhattan, even before the crash of the first airplane coming from the north into the World Trade Center tower.

These “dancing Israelis”, as we can all surmise, were Mossad operatives, who were involved in operational aspects of the Zionist attack on lower Manhattan that fateful day, September 11, 2001. Two additional “suspects”, who were surely also part of the same Israeli operational team, were arrested on the approach to the George Washington Bridge, and, as was reported live that evening on the televised News (before this aspect to the story was buried), their van was laden with tons of explosives. (Though media reports may not have explicitly identified the people in the vans with explosives as Israeli, there should be little doubt that they were all part of the same team.)

There are two important aspects in conjunction with the 9/11 event in New York that have been virtually ignored even in the alternative media, which deserve closer scrutiny. One point involves the possible large-scale catastrophe that may have been induced by these operatives with explosives if they had not been apprehended as their van was about to drive onto the George Washington Bridge. The second aspect concerns the suspicious circumstances surrounding the crash of Flight 587, on November 12, 2001, more than nine years ago, in conjunction with the inexplicable release, just a few days later, of the “dancing Israelis” and other agents who had been involved in the 9/11 operation, including those who may have been on their way to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

By stalling the van at the middle of the bridge and getting away in time, a directed high-power explosion at that spot along the side might certainly have done some serious damage to a section of this bridge, given the dual cables per side , each slightly less than 36 inches in diameter. Most likely a truck explosion in itself would not have ripped both cables. But then, perhaps such a truck explosion was merely meant to serve as a low-tech trigger – to provide an explanation to the public, for why both cables on one side could have ripped – which itself would have been achieved by detonating a prepared coat of micro-thermite around the cables, just as the WTC towers were detonated by micro-thermite placed at crucial points along the structure weeks in advance, though the Government unconvincingly blamed structural failure caused by impacting airplanes and resulting fires. In light of what is known about the explosive thermite at the three WTC towers that were imploded into their footprint, it is not implausible, that the George Washington Bridge was also targeted for destruction that day, but this aspect of the operation was completely botched due to the van being intercepted. Just a few months earlier, in May, modifications to the George Washingtom Bridge were completed. Who would have ever noticed if coatings of micro-thermite were being applied during this renovation project ? Below are some quotes from NYRoads:

The project involved the rehabilitation of girders, columns, bridge decks, drainage and electrical systems, and roadway surfaces. New roadway expansion joints, guardrails, crash barriers, signs and lighting were also installed. The $38 million project was completed in May 2001.

Some pertinent questions arise in this context. Might some “follow-up work” of minor scope have been performed after the reported May completion date, shortly before 9/11, under the guise that something had not initially been done properly and thus needed to be corrected? What companies were involved in that multi-million dollar contract, and which companies were involved in the subsequent project, which would have removed any traces of micro-thermite coating that, according to this presumptive scenario, was applied more than nine years ago?

In 2002, the Port Authority began work to repaint the 604-foot-tall towers and the underside of the upper deck. Workers are removing older coats of lead-based paint, and are applying a three-coat paint system that includes a zinc primer, epoxy intermediate coat and a urethane topcoat. The $85 million project was completed in 2006.

Some investigative scrutiny of this previously neglected topic could certainly help in putting more pieces of the puzzle together, regarding what appears to have been planned as a spectacular and explosive encore on that ‘Demolition Day’, featuring live helicopter video of a major suspension bridge falling into the Hudson River, with only its two towers remaining. If one assumes that these putative Israeli suspects, disguised in Arab clothing, were prevented by their arrest at the on-ramp to the bridge from perpetrating a major crime – this would subsequently have impacted millions of people who commute between New Jersey and Manhattan – one can understand that it would take substantial pressure to get them released from custody. And we know from numerous reports, that they were all released just before Thanksgiving.

But why were these Isareli operatives ever released given their involvement? According to a report written by Christopher Ketcham, the Ha’aretz newspaper claimed that high-level Zionists in America were actively involved in obtaining their release:

Following what ABC News reported were “high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials”, a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects. Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government.

These high-level efforts may not have been sufficient, given that these captured agents were certainly involved in more than event documentation or simply driving moving vans. Perhaps a bit more high-level pressure was required to get these people ‘moving’ again. In this context, an interesting aspect that has not been widely reported is the fact that, just a week before their eventual release, American Airlines Flight 587 crashed after takeoff from Kennedy Airport in Queens. Though it was not widely reported – on the contrary, it appears that once again there was a big cover-up in this matter – the likely cause, according to a credible expert, was sabotage:

Expert Marshall Smith opined, “A single point failure, the in-flight actuation of the left engine thrust reverser, can account for all three observed phenomena of the clean breaking off of the tail and the failure of both pylons holding the engines.”

The mechanical engineer, aviation ground school instructor and former NASA adviser painted this scenario: During the night, a terrorist saboteur disguised as a ground crew mechanic reached up in the back of the left jet engine of the American Airlines Airbus and cut the hydraulic line going to the thrust reverser actuator and the control safety sensor lines.

Knowing the conventional path that the airliner would fly upon takeoff from Kennedy Airport on its course to Santo Domingo in the Caribbean Sea, the saboteurs could be almost certain that the plane would eventually crash into the water, thus making recovery of evidence and probable cause analysis more difficult, along with the minimized possibility of any inconvenient revelations possibly leaking out to the public. As it turned out, the jet crashed onto the narrow land strip, in a neighborhood in Rockaway Park, (“the Irish Riviera“).

Let us look at the timeline of the week long period between the crash of AA587 and the release of the Israeli agents a few days later. Flight 587 crashed on Veteran’s Day, Monday November 12, 2001. According to reports, the Mossad agents were released after “71 days” in custody. Anyone can easily verify the accuracy of the timeline implied by the headline, which indicates the week long period between the crash and the release of the agents: Assuming that September 11 already counts as a day, that yields 20 days in September, 31 days in October and 20 days in November (the last day presumably not a full day), thus Tuesday, November 20. The decision to release them must have come on the day before, Monday, November 19, in order to make arrangements to fly them back to Israel. On that day the New York Times published a prepared story, pushing the highly questionable notion of composite tail fin stress as the presumptive cause of the accident. This unsupported claim appears to be another case of contrived media misdirection (an endeavor the NYT is proficient in), to distract the public from the issue of sabotage.

It is reasonable to assume, however, that if by then the Government had already concocted and propagated a technically unlikely explanation — one that blamed the manufacturer Airbus for an alleged design flaw in conjunction with pilot over-reaction to vortexes from an airplane ahead — the technically far more plausible cause of the crash, which was consistent with observations from witnesses and physical evidence at the crash site, would have already been apparent to investigators and experts, such as the man whose assessment of sabotage is cited in the story cited above. Those who had the opportunity to examine the left engine could easily have corroborated the sabotage. (This raises the question, if one of the numerous investigators became upset that the matter was being covered up and talked about it with others.)

Based on the timeline, these Israeli operatives would have arrived back in Israel not before November 21. They appeared on the talk show sometime before the end of the month, after a few days of intensive de-briefing.

Thanksgiving Day was on November 22, so that any possible news of their release from custody and arrival back in Israel would have easily been drowned out as Americans were focusing on that major holiday.

What "red herrings" are these? I have asked you specific questions about things you have said and you have conspicuously failed to answer them. Questions like "what 'research' did Kollerstrom actually undertake beyond browsing Holocaust denial websites" or "why is the Havaara so massively significant or "diabolical"" are quite straightforward.
But rather than answer them you go off on a tangent, arbitrarily pasting some meaningless flight of fancy conjecture based on the 'dancing Israelis' - whose behaviour was totally inexplicable for anybody involved in the attacks and reports of explosives that IIRC were retracted as false very quickly but everyone likes to forget about that. Mind you, that was obviously a cover-up. We can just assume that.

As I said to item8 -

Just out of interest, exactly how are you suggesting MOSSAD pulled off 7/7 and 911? I don't mean copying and pasting stuff about the 'dancing Israelis' - which if they were in any way involved would make MOSSAD look spectacularly inept - or whatever. I mean a coherent, convincing narrative in your own words offering tangible evidence as opposed to the usual innuendo, isolated factoids, here's some prominent Jews etc.

Just to be clear, that doesn't mean some asinine tripe that says because a bridge was renovated this means we can simply assume MOSSAD agents were busily planting micro thermite all over it. If this is the sort of stuff you find compelling, no wonder you hold Kollerstrom in such high regard.

Oh -

As for Zion: Just one name for you: Adam Weishaupt.

What has he got to do with Zionism?

And I was under the impression Weishaupt's Illuminati had pretty progressive anti-authoritarian values. It's interesting how something so small and short-lived has accumulated such a mythology around it.
And this was all to do with Zionism for some reason.

Oh I get it. He was raised Jesuit but was of Jewish heritage. Joooos are always joooos - even if they're commie atheists for example - so we can deduce he was pushing a jooooish agenda because that's what joooos always do. And while jooos spent the medieval era being tools of Satan, they subsequently became the emissaries of the nightmare of liberal minded post enlightenment values that led to their emancipation in many countries and them no longer knowing their place. Until the internet era when they managed, as Zionists, to be tools of Satan again as well as being responsible for capitalism, communism, world wars, economic downturns, 911, 7/7 etc. We know this because Israel has treated the Palestinians appallingly and if we can find any prominent politician, banker etc with joooish blood in them we can automatically assume they are part of the jooooish conspiracy that functions by some form of hitherto unexplained magic.

[Thermate911]

Oh I get it. He was raised Jesuit but was of Jewish heritage. Joooos are always joooos - even if they're commie atheists for example - so we can deduce he was pushing a jooooish agenda because that's what joooos always do. And while jooos spent the medieval era being tools of Satan, they subsequently became the emissaries of the nightmare of liberal minded post enlightenment values that led to their emancipation in many countries and them no longer knowing their place. Until the internet era when they managed, as Zionists, to be tools of Satan again as well as being responsible for capitalism, communism, world wars, economic downturns, 911, 7/7 etc. We know this because Israel has treated the Palestinians appallingly and if we can find any prominent politician, banker etc with joooish blood in them we can automatically assume they are part of the jooooish conspiracy that functions by some form of hitherto unexplained magic.

Thank you for providing this 'excellent' example of misdirection and generalisation, Dogsmilk. I also note the typical hectoring style of the just-who-is-avoiding-answering-questions-to-whom approach.

Sorry; it just doesn't work any more...must be a bit of a problem...

ps: Was there any particular reason to re-quote the entirety of that speculative article on the Dancing Israelis, apart from distancing one post, or in this instance, one link from another?

[Dogsmilk]

Oh I get it. He was raised Jesuit but was of Jewish heritage. Joooos are always joooos - even if they're commie atheists for example - so we can deduce he was pushing a jooooish agenda because that's what joooos always do. And while jooos spent the medieval era being tools of Satan, they subsequently became the emissaries of the nightmare of liberal minded post enlightenment values that led to their emancipation in many countries and them no longer knowing their place. Until the internet era when they managed, as Zionists, to be tools of Satan again as well as being responsible for capitalism, communism, world wars, economic downturns, 911, 7/7 etc. We know this because Israel has treated the Palestinians appallingly and if we can find any prominent politician, banker etc with joooish blood in them we can automatically assume they are part of the jooooish conspiracy that functions by some form of hitherto unexplained magic.

Thank you for providing this 'excellent' example of misdirection and generalisation, Dogsmilk. I also note the typical hectoring style of the just-who-is-avoiding-answering-questions-to-whom approach.

Then explain to me what Adam Weishaupt.has to do with Zionism.

Sorry; it just doesn't work any more...must be a bit of a problem...

What?

I've asked you a series of perfectly reasonable questions and all you've done is ignore them. Is this what passes for 'truthseeking' these days?

ps: Was there any particular reason to re-quote the entirety of that speculative article on the Dancing Israelis, apart from distancing one post, or in this instance, one link from another?

I pressed the 'quote' key - not uncommon that is it? What's this bizarre jabbering about 'distancing links' supposed to be about?

Speaking of links, that site you felt fit to post that inane, baseless conjecture you apparently found riveting enough to post from is interesting. E.g.

Female Olympic Medalist Beaten By Niggers In Boston
* Isn't diversity great!

Savage Nigger Beats White Bus Driver
I can't stand niggers, they should've lynched his black ass from the highest tree in Michigan.

Non White Immigrants Behind ALL Sexual Assaults In Norway

It really blows my mind that anyone could ever truly consider a negro equal to a White man.

http://www.truthinourtime.com/search/la ... results=20

They link to some interesting other sites too. They should remove their link to Curt Maynard since that racist maniac killed himself after killing his ex-wife.
"Truth in our time" huh?

Oh and the article you posted carries the tag "Hook Nosed Rats". Nice.

Here's a nice little article -

Open Letter To Jew Tim Wise And The Rest Of The Hook Nosed Rats

I have one question for you Tim, how many niggers, spics, chinks or kikes do you see in the above picture?

5?
10?

Nope, the answer is zero. What is shown in the picture of the signing of the Declaration Of Independence is White Christian Men, the Founders of this once great Republic.

So I have news for you, you sniveling hook nosed kike, this IS our country not yours and it IS ours for the taking. For 100 years now your satanic brethren have had control of our money, and our political process, but here is the kicker, people are waking up every day.

People are waking up to the jewish fleecing of Western Society from fractional reserve usurious banking, to promoting all manners of degeneracy in movies, TV, magazines and books.

It's just starting and it will be awhile so you have plenty of time to enjoy the next few years, but if you are smart you would start planning your exit strategy because when it goes down this time, now that our world communication is interconnected, you hook nosed rats won't be able to go to the next country and play the "poor jew persecution card"

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2010/11/o ... st-of.html

Stirring stuff indeed.


You just keep on with your, ah, 'truthseeking'.