Christianity. Just another lie?

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Christianity. Just another lie?

Post by David WJ Sherlock »

The history of sun worship, so seemingly foreign to the Western mind has, in fact, manifested itself into Christianity in many ways as the story of Jesus in the Gospels. So little was known about the life of Jesus, any and all writing styles from Midrash (searching past scriptures for "hints" of how they might apply to the present) to discerning the story of the Zodiac and it's constellations were used to fill in what was clearly missing in the literal record.

Consider our "modern" terms, Horizon and Sun Set. These terms belie their ancient history. Horus-sun (Horizon) was sunrise as Horus was the Egyptian god of light and the day light portion of the 24 hour cycle. Set, was the god of darkness and night. He came on the scene at "Sun Set" and is the Jackal headed god of the Egyptian underworld. When we say "what a beautiful Sun Set," we don't realize we are speaking as one might in ancient Egypt. Darkness was the time of Set, god of darkness. Night time was not a good time in most ancient mythologies. This is why many a priest stood every morning acting as if by incantation and arm waving, he could bring back the Sun/Son from the Underworld of darkness and fear. The sun descending into hell is something it did every Sun-Set. There was relief every morning when the sun/son was reborn.

Set murdered Osiris and in turn, Horus, son of Osiris, killed Set. Sunrise on the Horus-Sun defeats the night which began at Sun Set. Pretty cool huh? Jesus struggles with Satan (Set or Sata) in just the same way Horus battles with Set. It's all dualism. It's Light and Dark, good and evil, God and Satan.

"Set kills Osiris and scatters his body, then claims the throne of the gods for his own. He is later struck down by Horus, the son of Osiris, who restores order to the world and sets up the pharaohs as the guardians of Maat. Set and Horus continue to battle for control of the world, setting up an epic conflict of good versus evil." (Light and Dark) David C. Scott Website. Gods and Mythology of Egypt.

Consider the fact that Jesus is surrounded by 12 disciples and the events of Jesus life are like the Sun of God surrounded by the 12 signs of the Zodiac that make up the way of the sun across the heavens in one year. Just as the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 tribes of Israel are astro-theology personified and are in fact references to the zodiac and the story it tells. We might not watch the heavens anymore, and we know precious little about the zodiac, the characters and the revolving story they tell, but our ancestors read the heavens as we read books today.

For instance, many of the world's crucified god men have their traditional birthday on December 25th ("Christmas"). This was a basic understanding we had in WCG and was not off the mark. Today, there is many times more material to show this connection.

This is because the ancients recognized that (from an earthcentric perspective) the sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, the ancients declared that "God's sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th. So Xmas really is the Birthday of the SUN/SON in every way.

The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the "sun of God's" birthday on December 25th.

In reality, the sun "dies" for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. For those three days it might be said the Sun is in the grave.

In December, the Virgin, the constellation Virgo precedes sunrise and thus, "Behold, a Virgin shall bring forth the sun/son," would be part of the story in the heavens. Matthew literalized the story in his reacing back into Isaiah for a story about a young woman that had virtually nothing to with prophecy of a literal virgin birth or Jesus himself.

Remember the alternative explanation of Isa. 14 and "how thou art fallen, oh Lucifer, (light Bringer-Venus precedes sunrise), thou bright and morning star," (Venus). Remember how Venus appears to rise and then descends back into the earth and how this IS the origin of the story of Satan's fall for trying to ascend to God's Throne, which is astro-theologically NOON. Everyone sees "Satan fall as lightening from heaven" at one time or another during the year if you know what Venus looks like just before Sun rise on the Horus-sun, or even shortly after Sun-Set.

Something that bright got humanity's attention and the stories of it's apparent motion followed and then were literalized by the theologically ignorant. Venus always was and always will be a planet on the inside orbit between earth and the sun. It behaves as it does because it is as it is. Whole theologies have grown up around that which could not then be explained but now can be easily explained. Once you have the true explanation, you can drop the false one.

The Jesus story in the gospels may also be the story of the Sun/Son of God.

The sun is the "Light of the World." Just as Jesus.
The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him." Just as Jesus.
The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind." Just as Jesus.
The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo. Just as Jesus.
The sun "walks on water." Just as Jesus.
The sun can turn water (rain) into wine (grapes) Just as Jesus.
The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. Just as Jesus.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High"; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. Just as Jesus.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; (30x12=360 degrees) hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. Just as Jesus.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. Just as Jesus.
(Archarya S.-- Suns of God/The Christ Conspiracy)


Consider the following.

The rejection of Cain's grain offering (Agricultural Goddess and fertility recognition of the religions surrounding Israel) and the acceptance of Abel's (roasted meat) offering was a symbol of the change to come in Israel from Matriarchy and female based religion, to Patriarchy, Priesthood and cultic temple worship and sacrifices. The story is not true, the message was clear! Women are now property and men own them, no matter what the "pagan" nations around practice or respect in the mysteries of the feminine and fertility. (sex if you must know!)

Little has changed in the Christian Patriarchy since which is why for years I allowed myself to say the words, "who gives this woman..." in marriage ceremonies. I stopped including that in the wedding ceremony at the end. The Father always formally transferred his property to the qualified and selected male and I had to be the priest in the middle negotiating the transaction! Men have had way too much time to screw up the planet and it's time perhaps to let the feminine spirit restore the right side of the brain in humans! It's time to act as the one we really all are inspite of that which divides us.

The physical sun has always fascinated human beings. It "rises" in the east to bring it's warmth, light, and "sets" in the West, plunging the world into darkness with all the associated insecurites and dangers. It was truly a miracle and a most welcomed relief when every morning, the Sun rose from the land of the dead to bring it's light and protection for yet another day. It's cycles and apparent motion through the constellations has told the story of mankind for thousands of years, with all our hopes and fears. The physical Sun has been much of the inspiration of the spiritual son mythologies.

We're all still sun/son worshippers at heart.

So if you are a Christian or a sunbather, you are worshiping the god.
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Post by eogz »

I'd heard a little of that, but fascinating reading. Cheers David.
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Post by karlos »

David you seem to getting more into zeitgeist and other such atheist videos.
I think it would be helpful for you to look at other videos on google and youtube like the ones by Harun Yahya.

We are not sun worshippers, we need the sun as do all plants and animals to exist and survive. that is quite different from worship. The sun gives us life.
The cross is forbidden in Christianity as is all symbols, images, logos and false idol worship. Do you not remember Mose's commandment to the people? The fact that you see many churches with crosses and statues of Jesus and mary does not make this part of the Christian religion which expressly forbids any such images and idol worship.
"god needs no proxy and has no equal"
If you throw salt over your shoulder or if you touch your flies before you enter a room these are not part of a religion these are superstitions. So are many of what people symbolically do in the name of religion.
But read the bible and you will see that none of these superstitions or rituals are part of the religion they are man made.
As Jesus (pbuh) said "the kingdom of God is within all of us" meaning churches, temples etc are not part of religion. Religion comes from your heart directly to God.
so you are right to reject the symbolism but dont let that turn you away from the truth.
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Post by John White »

I wouldnt say that Zeitgeist was an athiest video: I agree with most of it, and I'm certainly no athiest

I also wouldnt say Astro-Theology was the be-all-and-end-all of "explaining" Chrsitianity, though obviously its been thraped hard and pushed as such by some people (with a lot of details stretched to fit!)

When really understood, Astro-Theology simply deepens the glory and sublimity of the mystery
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Post by eogz »

Whether you are an Athiest, Christian, Muslim, Agnostic, Spiritualist, Hindu, Moonie, 7th Day Adventist and so on....

It is all an article of belief and faith.

We'll not see till we get there, or not as the case may be.
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Post by David WJ Sherlock »

eogz wrote:Whether you are an Athiest, Christian, Muslim, Agnostic, Spiritualist, Hindu, Moonie, 7th Day Adventist and so on....

It is all an article of belief and faith.

We'll not see till we get there, or not as the case may be.
Like any other form of control, this is about brainwashing. I was a "Christian" for many years. I was had myself baptised (full emersion) was "Born Again" and for many years was in the ministry. Christians say they are free, They have to go to church every Sunday or they feel guilty. They have to give over their money, I have not been in a church that is steeped in hiararchy, and so on... How that is free I do not know. I never have seen such vanity as I have seen in churches.
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Post by eogz »

I'm with ya there David, I meant the debate about religion is never really proved, till the end that is.

I'm no atheist, I do have my own faith, I don't publicly declare it nor shove it down others throats.

Unfortunately religion is man led, therefore it is fallible to the whims of man. Mostly the whims of man tend to be control of others/power/greed etc.
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Post by karlos »

To believe in God you do not have to go to church you do not have to donate money and you do not have to perform any sort of ritual.
Please try and seperate your faith from membership of a private business like supporting a football team.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion other than people who highjack it to enrich themselves.
Please make that distinction.
Dont you see that Dawkins and zeitgeist and all the other anti God things and people out there are simply trying to bring you into their religion.
Communism was and still is in some countries a religion
Zionism is a religion.
Devil worship is a religion as practiced by george Bush and others.

So choose which religion you want to be part of. A good kind peaceful religion preeching love and charity and forgiveness.
or a murdering evil religion as practiced by Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Dawkins, Darwin.
You choose.
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Post by kc »

They have to go to church every Sunday or they feel guilty.
True of catholics, but no other christian denomination. Most others believe the deeds you perform during the week outweigh weekend piety.
They have to give over their money
No they don't. They can contribute if they are able, if they are unable to, they can recieve far more than they give (ask any homeless person with a Salvation Army rug keeping them warm, or Christian Aid recipients in Africa, or NCH residents in the UK or...well...you get the picture)
I have not been in a church that is steeped in hiararchy
I've been on loads that are steeped in heirarchy. Been in a fair few that arent though. Think most Quakers would take objection to that asertation (but seeing as they're Quakers, I wouldnt really worry about it)
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Post by Emmanuel »

FREEMASONS AND THE ELITE HAVE GAINED CONTROL OF ALL ORGANISED RELGIONS!
The sun represents the illuminated ones. If there are suns in the Christian art or architecture then we know who put them there.

This has nothig to do with the potency of the scriptures of teachings of the prophets.
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Post by kbo234 »

If you deny and oppose Christianity itself (as opposed to its organisations) you oppose the most powerful spirit of Truth and Love and Justice.........the one global force that truly terrifies the global Luciferian powers-that-be.

Even if you disbelieve Christ's teaching and his identity as Messiah, you surely cannot deny (if you put any effort at all into studying the subject) that Freemasonry, within which the globalist criminals hang out, is dedicated to the service of Lucifer and the destruction of Christianity?

Weishaupt, his patron Rothschild, Pike and the rest saw Christ as real and identified Him as the enemy.....even if others, imagining themselves to be wiser than these most influential fiends, do not.
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Post by uselesseater »

I think people missinterpret Zeitgeist.

It sure outlines the astro theology in scripture. The question is what conclusion you draw from that.

I don't think you can make any conclusions on the existence of God from it.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions about Jesus from it.

What I conclude from it is that the cannon of scripture has these references worked into it as CHristianity became an esablishment religion.
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Post by Jayhawk »

David WJ Sherlock said
I was had myself baptised (full emersion) was "Born Again" and for many years was in the ministry.
How do you define 'born again'? I'm interested.

Also....
I'm sorry but Zeitgeist is truly the biggest load of rubbish! All that stuff about the various god men having been born on 25th December - simply not true! Look it up! And many of them purely mythical characters with absolutely no proof they even existed anyway. Jesus was not born then either, but so what? Is that really relevant? He was a real person, several historians mention him outside of the New Testament, which is incidentally the most reliable ancient document by far, with over 5000 original manuscripts from the first 300 years AD in existence. This compares to 10 copies of Caesar's Gallic War, and we don't question the provenance of that.

Forget religion, Jesus didnt come to found a religion. He just said he was the truth. Think about that.
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Post by mark_e »

yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.
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Post by Justin »

Religions are there to divide people - as are political parties and economic systems. For those wishing to know more about what is really going on can I urge you to get David Icke's new book out next month

http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.p ... oductId=50

And, no, I'm not on any sort of commission!
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Post by Disco_Destroyer »

uselesseater wrote:I think people missinterpret Zeitgeist.

It sure outlines the astro theology in scripture. The question is what conclusion you draw from that.

I don't think you can make any conclusions on the existence of God from it.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions about Jesus from it.

What I conclude from it is that the cannon of scripture has these references worked into it as CHristianity became an esablishment religion.
Agreed I love the film it gets you to think, infact if you think long enough (*DANGER*) you end up with more questions :P Good work all round!!
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Post by Disco_Destroyer »

mark_e wrote:yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.
Another point well recieved and too oftern forgotten!!

Unity is quite possibly their only weakness, oh and the million and one heroes they keep telling us are going to save us :o
I believe in all fairness that we have to become heroes or hide forever more?
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Post by karlos »

mark_e wrote:yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.
I agree why do people keep using this forum to attack religion and God?
And when they do those of us who do still believe in Religion and God have no choice but to defend it.

Personally i cannot see why peopl go out of their way to attack religion, what exactly is the harm in people believing that if they are good and do good things that one day they might go to heaven. Surely religion prevents crime and prevents death and destruction.
If there was no religion where would we be?
In North Korea or China.
Where religion is ILLEGAL
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Post by blackcat »

I agree why do people keep using this forum to attack religion and God?
Yes Stelios why do you do it? Why do you post about Evolution being a lie and saying that it created monsters like Hitler and Pol Pot? Why do you then invite "attacks" on religion by claiming that without religion there can be no morality. Why do you insist that those who have no religion have the religion of Atheism.? Why do you insist that Evolution is a religion? Why do you repeatedy start threads about religion?
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Post by David WJ Sherlock »

Jayhawk wrote:David WJ Sherlock said
I was had myself baptised (full emersion) was "Born Again" and for many years was in the ministry.
How do you define 'born again'? I'm interested.

Also....
I'm sorry but Zeitgeist is truly the biggest load of rubbish! All that stuff about the various god men having been born on 25th December - simply not true! Look it up! And many of them purely mythical characters with absolutely no proof they even existed anyway. Jesus was not born then either, but so what? Is that really relevant? He was a real person, several historians mention him outside of the New Testament, which is incidentally the most reliable ancient document by far, with over 5000 original manuscripts from the first 300 years AD in existence. This compares to 10 copies of Caesar's Gallic War, and we don't question the provenance of that.

Forget religion, Jesus didnt come to found a religion. He just said he was the truth. Think about that.
Point me in the direction of evidence for what you say. It matters not that these early figures in writing may or may not be real. Christianity is clearly derived from these writings. I'm sorry guys. But if you subscribe to this religion, then you are under the influence of another form of mind control. You are blind to what is real. I had been in the church for many years, and all these so called men and women of God were the best part, more superficial, worldly and vain than some of the rock stars I hang out with during my music career. I want you to prove to me that what have read and seen about the pagan roots of Christianty are a lie. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE. If you fall to brainwashing by the church, how then can you be a good for this cause.
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Post by Ravenmoon »

Bill Hicks - Christ and Christians

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHey5g56CIs[/youtube]
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Post by Jayhawk »

David WJ Sherlock said
I want you to prove to me that what have read and seen about the pagan roots of Christianity are a lie. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.
I havent got half a day. After I watched Zeitgeist some months back I looked all of the references up on the web and most werent accurate. You also give no references or sources.
My substantive point anyway was that Jesus was a historical person, he lived. This is more relevant than a list of myths and legends and interpretations of them. He is my evidence. He wasnt a pagan. He was a Jew. The gospels are history, not stories. The bad behaviour of "christians" does not negate what he did and said, it just makes them hypocrites.
You didnt answer my question.
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Post by karlos »

What i find strange is people are more trusting of the words of an internet youtube video that is simply a cobble together of other videos.
They are also more trusting of the words of a boozed up and coked up Bill Hicks who died as a result of his exesses.
Yet the words of the prophets handed down through generations appear to count for little in todays world.

Atheism is the most dangerous trend we face in todays world. Couple this with the devil worship and freemasonery and you have a recipie for disaster.

Without God in our world we become nothing more than ferel beasts. look at the examples of Pol Pot and the former communist world.
Why would you trust the religion of Dawkins more than the mainstream religions?
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Post by Mr-Bridger »

`They are also more trusting of the words of a boozed up and coked up Bill Hicks who died as a result of his exesses. ` that has no effect on his observations.

`Yet the words of the prophets handed down through generations appear to count for little in todays world.` fairytales and fables that have nothing to do with the world e now live in


`Atheism is the most dangerous trend we face in todays world. Couple this with the devil worship and freemasonery and you have a recipie for disaster.` What a load of rubbish atheism isn`t a trend and is not dangerous in anyway

`Without God in our world we become nothing more than ferel beasts. look at the examples of Pol Pot and the former communist world. `

Well Stelios you might become a ferel beast without you beliefs but i`m just fine, i realised years ago after being raised a Catholic,i even served on the altar looked great in a cassock and cotter. I had no need for imaginary God. I did also attend Methodist chapel now and then with my father he prefered the hymns :)
None of my 4 children have been christened, that will be their choice when they are old enough, if they want to take a religion thats up to them.

`Why would you trust the religion of Dawkins more than the mainstream religions?`

you really cant grasp that atheism is not a religion can you
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Post by Mr-Bridger »

Jayhawk wrote:David WJ Sherlock said
I want you to prove to me that what have read and seen about the pagan roots of Christianity are a lie. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.
I havent got half a day. After I watched Zeitgeist some months back I looked all of the references up on the web and most werent accurate. You also give no references or sources.
My substantive point anyway was that Jesus was a historical person, he lived. This is more relevant than a list of myths and legends and interpretations of them. He is my evidence. He wasnt a pagan. He was a Jew. The gospels are history, not stories. The bad behaviour of "christians" does not negate what he did and said, it just makes them hypocrites.
You didnt answer my question.
If you go to zeitgeistmovie.com the maker lists all his sources and references.

`The gospels are history, not stories. `
without evidence they are stories, a work of fiction

`My substantive point anyway was that Jesus was a historical person, he lived`
oh you will find reference to people called Jesus alot in the time he was supposed to have graced our Earth ( it was a very common name) but wheres the evidence that any of them were the son of a supposed God?????

As David says Wheres the evidence...............................................................Yawn
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Post by uselesseater »

What a load of rubbish atheism isn`t a trend and is not dangerous in anyway

Our freedom arose from the argument that we are created in the image of God (whoever you think your God is) and therefore have unchangeable rights as individuals.

If people believe that they are a product of chaos then it becomes much easier for them to accept being treated as such.
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Post by acrobat74 »

1. Most of the times, such threads only help to divide and polarize.
Is that the goal then?

2. Religion is a personal matter. No funky messiahs are needed for us to be decent persons 'who love their neighbour'. Individual responsibility.

3. Saying that non-theistic philosophies are 'luciferian' is just daft and implies complete ignorance about giants such as Spinoza, Plato, Schopenhauer.
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Post by fish5133 »

Justin wrote:Religions are there to divide people - as are political parties and economic systems. For those wishing to know more about what is really going on can I urge you to get David Icke's new book out next month

http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.p ... oductId=50

And, no, I'm not on any sort of commission!
Have read Ickes Robots Rebellion and done a little research on the man. Found some of his stuff very interesting, he often uses the Bible to back up some of his views and opinions, as well as other sacred writings, myths and fables. He said himself he had some spiritual "conversion" meeting whilst on a hilltop in some country which I forget (was it Peru). Having a number of friends who are very intersted in what he says and it is quite obvious that he has a following. It seems a trait of some people to have a pop at other religions and beliefs and then hypocritically use the sacred writings of those belief systems to prop up their own theories. That said go and listen to his stuff on you tube etc and sort the wheat from the chaff.
Personally I would rather the trust the teachings of a man who died and rose again. Theirs your chance Mr Icke
Emmanuel
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Post by Emmanuel »

Not the most sensitive title, Sherlock!
So this whole thread is going to be God exists, no he doesnt, yes he does.....

Heres an interesting debate "the God delusion" between Mr Dawkins and John Lennox. Dawk comes across as a spiritually dead speculator.
What do you think?
Audio only.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FYYJaYT2YHg
redkop
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Post by redkop »

stelios wrote:To believe in God you do not have to go to church you do not have to donate money and you do not have to perform any sort of ritual.
Please try and seperate your faith from membership of a private business like supporting a football team.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion other than people who highjack it to enrich themselves.
Please make that distinction.
Dont you see that Dawkins and zeitgeist and all the other anti God things and people out there are simply trying to bring you into their religion.
Communism was and still is in some countries a religion
Zionism is a religion.
Devil worship is a religion as practiced by george Bush and others.

So choose which religion you want to be part of. A good kind peaceful religion preeching love and charity and forgiveness.
or a murdering evil religion as practiced by Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Dawkins, Darwin.
You choose.
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