Christianity. Just another lie?

[kbo234]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGZSvdSsoAE[/youtube]

OK - its naughty posting it here - but quite amusing!!

I was an altar boy and taught by priests. I must have been wearing some of that stuff.
I was invited back to teach at my old school (a boy's grammar in London)and stayed for a couple of years in the mid-70's. There were no paedophiles amongst the priests there to my knowledge but my head of department, a lay person, was one (as I discovered when I read a book* last year) and....sadly....he was protected by the priests. it was a shock to me to see that the headmaster, a man I liked and greatly admired, had the responsibility of manageing this man who had been transferred from a another school run by the order where the violations had taken place. He told the offender that he must "never be alone in a classroom with a child".....

The catholic clergy is , like many other organisations run along military lines. priests take vows of obedience to their superiors. The top person in the country in this order, a Fr. Williams, has been recently charged with sexual offences against boys.

The victim in this case, as well as writing a book, has started a charity for such victims.

*See:

http://www.lanternproject.org.uk/

The damage caused by these scandals is pretty unfixable. Milking a laugh out of the situation was a tough challenge but this film managed it.

[TonyGosling]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGZSvdSsoAE[/youtube]
OK - its naughty posting it here - but quite amusing!!

this is why the prieshood is infiltrated - to tarnish all men of the cloth with the paedo brush as if all paedos are clergy - what rot - anywayz
here's a rather more enlightening clip

A Jew exposes the Truth about Jesus Christ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujYH6H4z6Oc

[petros]

See http://www.bereanbeacon.org regarding Catholic Scandals

This Zeitgeist film makes a mockery of the truth movement because it is so easily refuted. The work of the men who wrote the new testament were men is of the highest integrity and quality. Luke's account is known but academic historians to be impecible in his research. (See Lee Srobels books on the Case for Christ etc. and J McDowells books on Evidence that Demands a Verdict)

However the vernacular and nuances used in the Bible need to be understood in their context. This takes effort and I believe God's help to fully appreciate.

These Scholars are helpful in further study
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._F._Bruce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_kaiser

There is a Zeitgeist Challenge on youtube suggesting people actually go to the original sources and see if this film's claims about Christianity stand up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRaxf4ZC0e8[/youtube]

This Two part vid also makes a similarly clear point

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAhrC3nG5E[/youtube]
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDab5MOLjpM

I suggest that if the truth movement wants to deserve its name I suggest it embraces Christianity's commitent to Truth which is also a commitment to follow Christ. Just a prayer request.

[kbo234]

Hi Petros, what do you make of the Kim Michaels talk on the other 'Jesus' thread. I'd be interested to know what you think.

[truthseeker john]

See http://www.bereanbeacon.org regarding Catholic Scandals

This Zeitgeist film makes a mockery of the truth movement because it is so easily refuted.

The Zeitgeist Challenge says that the maker of Zeitgeist does not back up many of his claims in regard to Christianity. However, the maker of Zeitgeist got much of his information from the likes of Jordan Maxwell who does have references, many of them, even many from the bible itself. So if people want to tackle Zeitgeist in regard to Christianity they need to tackle this man, read his books and view his videos. http://www.jordanmaxwell.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Maxwell as well as Acharya S http://www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm and many others.

One thing a person can do if they have the time for it, is read their bible and ask some honest questions - find where the bible came from, who wrote it (and when) and what it really means - instead of simply accepting what the churches say. But unless you are very bright that could take most of your life to achieve. That’s what it is there for – it’s like a game, to spend much of your life reading a book to discover some hidden truths which you should already know! Another thing a person can do is find where religion came from and again, ask questions and figure it out for yourselves.

The work of the men who wrote the new testament were men is of the highest integrity and quality.

The new testament was compiled for political reasons more than anything. What's more they only selected certain books out of many and with a little tweaking made it fit in with ancient stories about the Sun (amongst other things) under the guise of stories about the 'Son.'

However the vernacular and nuances used in the Bible need to be understood in their context. This takes effort and I believe God's help to fully appreciate.

Indeed!

These Scholars are helpful in further study
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._F._Bruce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_kaiser

[loop] The validity of religion cannot be shown through religious bias.

Read that again. [goto loop]

[Andrew.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtmO36tmuT0

Its only 10 minutes long, go ahead watch it.

“I couldn't believe it when I found out how badly we were being lied to by Tsarion, Maxwell, Acharya etc. about "Astro-theology" This is a 10 min presentation of a few of the major problems with it.

You might want to download an astronomy program to confirm what Im saying.
Here is a link to one of the ones I used.
http://www.stellarium.org/

What I mainly covered in this first part (more coming) is the following:

1.)The idea of the three stars in Orion's belt aligning with Sirius and pointing to the rising sun on Dec 25th is very misleading for a number of reasons.

2.)The idea that the sun rises in the southern cross on the solstice (or anytime) being a physical impossibility


3.)The sun staying motionless for three days on dec 25th

4.)And why this is being told to the truth movement. IMO”

Also check out: Jordan Maxwell Debunked

http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D1942C0FE40E201

The Bible uses Soni lunar reckoning astronomy, not the gagorian calendar we use. This helps with the many thousands of prophecies as the moon; planets; stars; positions cannot be faked as there positions set datum's and can be checked.

[truthseeker john]

I always knew that Jordan was wrong about the pillar of fire and the volcano... however, much of the video against him either takes what he says out of context or is splitting hairs. I still think that Jordan is right about some things but also know that he does make mistakes - deliberate or otherwise.

In regard to the Zeitgeist debunk, so far I'm impressed! I may look into it more when I have more time. I need to rest for a couple of days. Thanks Andrew

If anyone is interested here's some of the Zeitgeist text with references.
http://blog.jericosystems.com/2008/02/1 ... ever-told/

[Andrew.]

If anyone is interested here's some of the Zeitgeist text with references.
http://blog.jericosystems.com/2008/02/1 ... the-greate st-story-ever-told/


The very first reference.
One of numerous Neolithic (11,000–8500 BC) 'Sun' motif carvings at the Dowth Passage Tomb in Meath, Ireland.

How did he date that.

[truthseeker john]

If anyone is interested here's some of the Zeitgeist text with references.
http://blog.jericosystems.com/2008/02/1 ... the-greate st-story-ever-told/


The very first reference.
One of numerous Neolithic (11,000–8500 BC) 'Sun' motif carvings at the Dowth Passage Tomb in Meath, Ireland.

How did he date that.

I would guess that he didn't but other people did. There's no doubt in my mind that carvings representing the sun existed a long, long time before Christianity.

[Andrew.]

If anyone is interested here's some of the Zeitgeist text with references.
http://blog.jericosystems.com/2008/02/1 ... the-greate st-story-ever-told/


The very first reference.
One of numerous Neolithic (11,000–8500 BC) 'Sun' motif carvings at the Dowth Passage Tomb in Meath, Ireland.

How did he date that.

I would guess that he didn't but other people did. There's no doubt in my mind that carvings representing the sun existed a long, long time before Christianity.

Excerpt only.

Dowth Passage Tomb in Meath, Ireland.


Aengus was the son of Eochaidh Ollathair, the Daighda, High-king of Tara who reigned at the beginning of the sixth century B.C. and according to the Annals of the Four Masters he died at Newgrange in ‘year of the world’ 3450 (554 BC) and so Newgrange is Iron-age NOT Stone-age. It was built in the sixth century B.C. with metal tools, using horses and carts to haul and transport the approx. 200,000 tons of stones.

The age of the cairn is also confirmed by the astronomical alignment of the cairn with the Winter Solstice sunrise at this time - 600 - 550 BC.

Instrumentation.
AUTOHELM Personal Compass, made in England. Digital compass. This instrument has a digital display giving bearings, on Magnetic North, with an accuracy of ±1/2° due to the fact that it gives bearings in whole degrees only.

Methodology.
A reverse bearing was taken from a position approximately seven meters south-east of the outlier stone that is shown in the foreground in the two pictures below, which; at the very place on the stone (its top S-E corner) that was used for aligning the passage and roofbox with the Winter Solstice sunrise; has been cut and dressed, using metal tools. Since the instrument may be sighted in either direction, the reading was taken with it facing the operator, towards the sunrise position.


Results.
A bearing of 140° MN was taken. A calibration factor of -7° 19’ was calculated from the grid data on Ordnance Survey map #43 (Discovery Series), giving an azimuth of 132° 41’. According to F. Prendergast (1989), the Winter Solstice sunrise in 3,150 BC was at azimuth 133° 54’ ± 4’. The alignment is, therefore, 1° 13’ to the North of the Neolithic Winter Solstice sunrise position, corresponding to 2,217 years. The result is a date of 933 BC (± 1,000 years, due to the accuracy of the instrumentation).
With more accurate instrumentation this would give a correct reading of c. 550 BC, which would also corroborate the age of the cairn to have been built by Aengus (after whom it is named) and Eochaidh Ollathair - the Daighda, proving the accuracy and truth of some of the ancient Irish historical records, that have been discounted by the archaeologists in favour of their own theories based on unreliable radiocarbon dating. JAH.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And can go into far greater detail at any time period. As The Bible uses Soni lunar reckoning astronomy, not the gagorian calendar we use. This helps with the many thousands of prophecies as the moon; planets; stars; positions cannot be faked as there positions set datum's and can be checked.

Obviously interpretation is all important.

[TonyGosling]

A brief respite from the endless propaganda as a breath of fresh air sweeps in from Jamaica.
My namesake no less
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt4L3U2iAWc[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt4L3U2iAWc

[Wakeymedia]

Heeeeeeeere's George!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]







.

[TonyGosling]

Didn't you like the Tony Rebel song?
I think we deserve a critique of that at least.
Did you listen to it?
Don't dis what you don't understand, you may need him some day.

[Wakeymedia]

Didn't you like the Tony Rebel song?

Yes, I liked the music. Had hardly a clue what he was saying due to the heavy patois but I got the theme - "Nazareth", "Bible", "666" etc.

OK - the guy can parrot the religious myths and traditions of his immediate culture; nothing new in that, most cultures produce similar responses from many individuals. In his favour is the fact that he at least put it to a groovy Reggae tune.

And I think I do understand this phenomenon very well - it's rooted in the fear of Death, in the sheer horror which our relatively unevolved individual ego's have when faced with the prospect of complete and final cessation. A horror itself rooted in the mammalian drive to survive, pure "survive", when it is faced with the inevitable answer from Nature which says - "not for long matey". I'm not concerned with an afterlife, saviours and celestial Father-Figures; it's just primitive wishful thinking. We can, should and will evolve further it seems.

See the whole of the George Carlin video - and as the Late Great Carlin (may His name be praised) has said - your odds are the same if you pray to Joe Pesci.

May Pesci be with you brother.

PS - you said "you may need him some day".
Who's "him"?

[Disco_Destroyer]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sTIzYTe70w[/youtube]

[insidejob]

The reality is that much of what Maxwell Jordan and other teach is reflected in Freemasonic esoteric thought. Senior Freemasons do not believe the Biblical teachings and feel it necessary to reinterpret them. They believe that Jesus’ story is metaphor. This view is reflected in a book I bought in a Freemasonic bookshop.

‘Thought it hasn’t filtered down to the wider congregation, modern biblical scholarship acknowledges that the Bible contains many passages that should be understood as references to astronomical deities. For example, Psalm XIX says: “He set a tabernacle for the Sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, His going forth is from the end of heaven, And his circuit unto the ends of it.” Study of this passage in conjunction with comparative texts from neighbouring cultures reveals that it describes the marriage of the sun to Venus.

A passage like this might be dismissed as incidental to the main theological thrust of the Bible. You might suspect it of being an interpolation from a foreign culture. But the reality is that after layers of mistranslation and other types of obfuscation have been removed, the most important passages in the Bible can be seen to describe the deities of the stars and planets.

The four Cherubim are among the most powerful symbols in the Bible, appearing in key passages in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Revelation. Popular in Hebrew and Christian iconography, prominent in Church art and architecture everywhere, they are symbolised by the Ox, the Lion, the Eagle and the Angel. In esoteric teaching these four Cherubim are the great spiritual beings behind four the twelve constellations that make up the zodiac. The proof of their astronomical identities lies in the imagery associated with them: Ox - Taurus, the Lion = Leo, Eagle = Scorpio, and Angel = Aquarius.

These fourfold pattern of symbolism regarding the constellation is repeated in all the world’s great religions. But for the most important telling example of polytheism in Christianity we must return to the story of the creation as it is told in Genesis and the Gospel of St John.

Genesis 1:26 is usually translated as ‘In the beginning God made heaven and earth’, but in fact any biblical scholar will admit, even if only when pressed, the word ‘Elohim’ here translated as ‘God’ is plural. The passage properly reads: ‘In the beginning, the gods made heaven and earth’….pp50/51

'The Secret History of the World', Jonathan Black, head of Century, Random House UK

[fish5133]

‘ For example, Psalm XIX says: “He set a tabernacle for the Sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, His going forth is from the end of heaven, And his circuit unto the ends of it.” Study of this passage in conjunction with comparative texts from neighbouring cultures reveals that it describes the marriage of the sun to Venus.


'The Secret History of the World', Jonathan Black, head of Century, Random House UK

The key to understanding those verses is found in verse 1 "The heavans declare the glory of God and the earth shows his handiwork" The bit about the sun is that all around the world it is seen rising in all its splendour crossing the sky and then setting (using poetical language) hence the references to day and night.
Not quite sure how Venus gets into the story. IF such myths of sun marrying venus existed in this culture at this time then it would not be inconceivable that the writer could use the myth poetically to bring home the teaching of Gods glory. IMO its got nothing to do with sun marrying venus

[Danny]

The four Cherubim are among the most powerful symbols in the Bible, appearing in key passages in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Revelation. Popular in Hebrew and Christian iconography, prominent in Church art and architecture everywhere, they are symbolised by the Ox, the Lion, the Eagle and the Angel. In esoteric teaching these four Cherubim are the great spiritual beings behind four the twelve constellations that make up the zodiac. The proof of their astronomical identities lies in the imagery associated with them: Ox - Taurus, the Lion = Leo, Eagle = Scorpio, and Angel = Aquarius.

Hello Insidejob,

You may also find the following interesting with regard to that:-

The four symbols are the four Brigade-Emblems of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, who camped around "The Tabernacle" in the wilderness during their "forty year punishment and wandering", in the wilderness under Moses.




The four symbols.




Plan of the Tabernacle Encampment.

The encampment was square, with three tribes camped on each of the four sides. The centre tribe of the three, on each side was the Brigade-Leader, so their standard was the dominant one, on each of the four sides. Those four tribes were Judah; Reuben; Joseph/Ephraim and Dan.

Judah's standard is a LION; Reuben's standard is a MAN; Joseph / Ephraim's standard is a wild-ox CALF (which today has become a Unicorn) and Dan's standard is an EAGLE.

http://www.jahtruth.net/bkofke.htm

In Hebrew Ox is Engel.

Anglo-Saxons = Engel o' Saac's sons.

Engel-ishmen, who are sons of Isaac.

"In Isaac shall your seed be called" (Genesis 21 v 12).


http://www.jahtruth.net/britca.htm

http://www.jahtruth.net/amerca.htm

http://www.jahtruth.net/heraldry.htm

[truthseeker john]

yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.

No, you have it upside down, it's religion that divides people.

And it causes wars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiZcKomzHaU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiZcKomzHaU

[Disco_Destroyer]

yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.

No, you have it upside down, it's religion that divides people.

And it causes wars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU

No religion (belief) does not Hierarchical power hungry groups of religious/political leaders do

[TonyGosling]

Interesting stuff this Danny, these tribal symbols appear inside the Royal Arch masonic temples. Certainly here in Bristol at the main Park Street Masonic Hall.

The four Cherubim are among the most powerful symbols in the Bible, appearing in key passages in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Revelation. Popular in Hebrew and Christian iconography, prominent in Church art and architecture everywhere, they are symbolised by the Ox, the Lion, the Eagle and the Angel. In esoteric teaching these four Cherubim are the great spiritual beings behind four the twelve constellations that make up the zodiac. The proof of their astronomical identities lies in the imagery associated with them: Ox - Taurus, the Lion = Leo, Eagle = Scorpio, and Angel = Aquarius.

Hello Insidejob,

You may also find the following interesting with regard to that:-

The four symbols are the four Brigade-Emblems of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, who camped around "The Tabernacle" in the wilderness during their "forty year punishment and wandering", in the wilderness under Moses.




The four symbols.




Plan of the Tabernacle Encampment.

The encampment was square, with three tribes camped on each of the four sides. The centre tribe of the three, on each side was the Brigade-Leader, so their standard was the dominant one, on each of the four sides. Those four tribes were Judah; Reuben; Joseph/Ephraim and Dan.

Judah's standard is a LION; Reuben's standard is a MAN; Joseph / Ephraim's standard is a wild-ox CALF (which today has become a Unicorn) and Dan's standard is an EAGLE.

http://www.jahtruth.net/bkofke.htm

In Hebrew Ox is Engel.

Anglo-Saxons = Engel o' Saac's sons.

Engel-ishmen, who are sons of Isaac.

"In Isaac shall your seed be called" (Genesis 21 v 12).


http://www.jahtruth.net/britca.htm

http://www.jahtruth.net/amerca.htm

http://www.jahtruth.net/heraldry.htm

[TonyGosling]

Hey now.
Tony Rebel didn't seem afraid to me.

Someone's censored him - YouTube appear to be taking their cues from you Wakey??

And I think I do understand this phenomenon very well - it's rooted in the fear of Death, in the sheer horror which our relatively unevolved individual ego's have when faced with the prospect of complete and final cessation. A horror itself rooted in the mammalian drive to survive, pure "survive", when it is faced with the inevitable answer from Nature which says - "not for long matey".

[truthseeker john]

yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.

No, you have it upside down, it's religion that divides people.

And it causes wars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU

No religion (belief) does not Hierarchical power hungry groups of religious/political leaders do

That depends on what we mean by religion and what we mean by belief doesn't it. For instance when a belief system says that their group are God's chosen people and that others are unrepentant sinners, it divides people. When people think they are more righteous than those of a different religion (or non-believers) it can cause much trouble and it does.

Such Religion is man-made and was designed so it can be used to divide people into 'us and them' - or as the bible puts it, sheep and goats - then it's a joke on believers when they are the sheep! Don't think, just believe and follow the "good shepherd" who leads his sheep to 'heaven' - then he comes back with vengeance against those who don't believe. What a joke!

[IanFantom]

It's the misuse of religion that divides people and peoples, not the religion itself. That's why I feel uncomfortable with the use of the word 'Zionist' in the context of 9/11 and expansionism in the Middle East. How do you know that these people are Zionists? How do you know that Tony Blair, George Bush, Henry VIII and Richard the Lion Heart were Christians?

All we know is that they were posing as Zionists and Christians and that they were manipulating people.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have the vocabulary to express that idea easily. I think we should at least try to make that distinction clear whenever we refer to religous ideas in the context of 9/11, false flag terrorism, colonial expensionism etc.

yet another divisive thread. why are these necessary? Some of us choose a faith or belief, some of us don't.we should be propagating comradeship and togetherness. i don't think that a thread that basically says 'if you have a belief in x you're an idiot' is useful in any way, except to divide the forum.

No, you have it upside down, it's religion that divides people.

And it causes wars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU

No religion (belief) does not Hierarchical power hungry groups of religious/political leaders do

[Disco_Destroyer]

No, you have it upside down, it's religion that divides people.

And it causes wars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?3D11603&v=ZiZcKomzHaU

No religion (belief) does not Hierarchical power hungry groups of religious/political leaders do

That depends on what we mean by religion and what we mean by belief doesn't it. For instance when a belief system says that their group are God's chosen people and that others are unrepentant sinners, it divides people. When people think they are more righteous than those of a different religion (or non-believers) it can cause much trouble and it does.

Such Religion is man-made and was designed so it can be used to divide people into 'us and them' - or as the bible puts it, sheep and goats - then it's a joke on believers when they are the sheep! Don't think, just believe and follow the "good shepherd" who leads his sheep to 'heaven' - then he comes back with vengeance against those who don't believe. What a joke!

I totally agree but it is still religious leaders that write books and shape the minds of the followers Not all Humans seek power/control, I'd say maybe only a handful are needed
Re Gulf War 1 unsure of the speaker (governmental) 'If I've got a message for the people its get out there and ring those church bells its been a tremendous victory'

[fish5133]

Wow 6 pages of posts on is Christianity Just Another Lie hopefully


THE END IS NIGH

[TonyGosling]

No, I hope not.
I don't find myself yearning for anything that might involve a lot of pain, death and destruction.

Wow 6 pages of posts on is Christianity Just Another Lie hopefully
THE END IS NIGH

[Danny]

Interesting stuff this Danny, these tribal symbols appear inside the Royal Arch masonic temples. Certainly here in Bristol at the main Park Street Masonic Hall.

Thank-you for that info, Tony.

Yes, let's not forget they do take symbols etc from the Old Testament, to fool the lower orders/levels, the ones who do good works and deeds, whilst the higher orders hide behind that screen and do evil.

Don't they also have a representation of The Ark of The Covenant?

I do think they (the high-ranking freemasons) know the truth about who the "lost" Tribes are, etc. But they have to keep it secret from the rest of the people, otherwise it would be very difficult for them and their pals to keep the rest of the populations in Britain, Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand etc, as slaves if they knew their real heritage.

Luke 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.



I have also seen the "sun" mentioned in this thread. If you read the following booklet you will find the explanation of what it represents, along with the "moon", the "stars", and other interesting facts and images:-

§ Psalm 89:35 Once have I sworn by My holiness that I will not lie unto David.
89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as "the sun" before me.

http://jahtruth.net/ausnz.htm

[Wakeymedia]

Tony Gosling wrote:

Someone's censored him - YouTube appear to be taking their cues from you Wakey??

"Censor"? Moi?! Never.

Youtube also took the Saint George (Carlin) video down - but good old Youtube came to the rescue. Praise be to Pesci.

Pesci be with you.


Heeeeeeeere's George!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]

.

[TonyGosling]

I'd have more interest in what you're doing on this thread and find more time to explore what you're saying Wakey if you weren't just attacking Christianity. Much better to put forward your own version of history too, and vision for the future.

You can't just write off the last 2000 years of human history as a confidence trick.
Can you?