Is 911 preaching a waste of time?

[Emmanuel]

I am getting closer to the realsisation that trying to convince people that 911 was an inside job is a complete waste of time.
Many do believe this though they think it doesnt affect them.
There are some fundmental links. THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE was attacked. This is an attack on language as well as the institution itself.

Money and the fraudelant banking systems is the biggest conspiracy.
Aquiring it, earning it, spending it. This is the biggest con.
I am sure we are all in this camp to one degree or another.
We cant seperate the crime of 911 with money. But

I am sick of people saying they dont have a choice or power. The Government (controllers of the mind) are very tiny and we are led to believe we are very weak and helpless. Yet, we keep on being enslaved by where we spend and store our money using the satanic little entertainment parks that are provided for us.
Are you working for the corporations that are funding crimes like 911?
Are you buying usueless presents so your indebted to the criminal banks?
Its all in our hands and in our pockets. The truth is out there!
I feel we are in this snake swallowing its own tail situation as depicted on the tower card in the tarot.
The fear propelling media is doing its best to keep people in a state of fear and lower platform animal survival level.
There is a dichotomy of wanting this terrible act of violence to be revealed and yet this dwelling on this mass murder is also a kind of evil which those who orchestrated love to see too.
I think there are other ways of spreading the seeds of awakeing without having to meditate on slowed down video shots of skyscrapers and analysing angles of aeroplanes.

[John White]

Preaching is always a waste of time

Honestly speaking your truth, never is

We all have to choose where to place our energies, and I wouldnt want to be mis-understood when I say no-one HAS to campaign for 9/11 Truth just becuase they agree with the broad thrust of it

BUT, even the very wise cannot see all ends and whilst it might seem people can agree with 9/11 Truth but think it has nothing to do with them, in actuallity, it is a potential building within them... 5 years down the line, 10 years, we will see a very different picture, and the grass roots awakening taking place in American politics is an obvious example of this

What I try to remember (and helps me not be frustrated with people) is that no oppression has ever survived the people not beleiving the propoganda: thats why "Truth is the enemy of the Lie, and thus the enemy of the state"... and why (IMO) camapigning to expose the truth of a particular nexus event like 9/11 is very worthwhile

After all: all these apparently innactive 9/11 Truth acceptees arnt going to relate the same way to the state ever again

Theres great hope in that: but do your own thing where it feels best: no man can be asked for more, and it ALL helps

[catfish]

I think for the most part 911 truth is bad news, and who wants to hear bad news?

Catfish

[Emmanuel]

Thanks John White, you always come up trumps with some good solid advice from a wider perspective.
Yes, the grass roots awakenign in America is there and growing, even the Ron Paul campaign is at least making some impact on spreading truth.

I didnt really mean "preach" more asking questions/ discussing/raising awareness.
Yes its important to decide or at least not get confused with dispersing energy where its not appreciated or not doing the greatest good with your strengths.
It just so happens I watched the last bit of Loose change final cut and it moves me back again into doing some campaigning again.
I would suggest dovetailing your skills to the cause of TRUTH rather than following orthodox half assed ways of protest.
If you write, write an article, if you speak well, ring up local radio stations, if you teach, show your students that asking questions is important. Actually I did email a certain BBC dj the other night and he played "We the people" afterwards which was quite a nice interaction.
If people know its an inside job and arent disgusted with their governments then maybe they never will be.

Its good you brought up energy its this which has got us here in the first place. Whatever you think, do and spend time with you become.

Very simplistic rant over.

[ian neal]

I understand what you are saying Emmanuel and if 9/11 is discussed in an isolated way, focussing on the minute detail and missing the big picture, divorced from the wider world and other popular progressive movements for change then it will have minimal impact and deserve to fail.

I think for the most part 911 truth is bad news, and who wants to hear bad news?

Catfish

9/11 is often widely perceived as 'bad news'. The reason I latched onto it is because it exposes the corruption and organised criminality at the heart of the global system and western 'democracies' and to me this is a 'good news' story and not a 'bad news' one. As a device to wake people up to this corruption and force people to hold their governments to account it is potentially very powerful, which is why it is being so strongly attacked by the MSM. But it does need to be communicated in a positive way, as a tool to build awareness of the corruption at the heart of the system and as a tool to build support for popular resistence to the system.

For all my working life, I've worked in international development. If you ever wanted evidence of an organised and systemic conspiracy, then the realities around global poverty and 'international development' are there for all to see. Don't imagine that most people (close to 4 billion people) in this world have to survive hand to mouth on less than $2/day by accident. Documentaries such as Pilger's The new rulers of the world do a v good job in explaining this but they only go so far.

The trouble I have working in 'international development' is that I no longer believe (if I ever did) that the 'international community' or the G8 is sincere in its protestations to Make Poverty History. A few pious words and a few empty promises and we all go back to sleep. Time to stop playing their game. Time to stop pretending to believe their empty rhetoric and bs and expose them for the serial liars and bs artists they are. Issues like 9/11 and 7/7 expose them to the core, but it is important to expose the full picture.

Now 9/11 (and conspiracy theories in general) has been attacked by many (eg Chomsky, Schnews, NFTB, Monbiot, etc, etc.) as a distraction and a simplistic analysis. Do 9/11 truthers not recognise that the world is a mess because of systemic failures, they argue? Whilst this is true up to a point (the system is institutionally corrupt in the way Chomsky and Pilger describe). It is the way it is precisely because it has been taken over by criminal elites. It is the failure of the likes of Chomsky, Galloway, Geldof and Monbiot (and other so-called radical voices out there) to speak this truth that perpuates the same turgid debates that change nothing.

To me 9/11 isn't about just exposing the Bush administration or the neo-cons. It is about exposing the whole shabang. All major governments of the world: their intelligence services, their media, their militaries, their politicians, their business elites: all are complicit in the cover-up of the truth. And not just 9/11 truth but all the related issues. 9/11 is potentially the key to ending war, ending poverty, ending environmental madness and heralding a new era of truth and 'justice'.

But it is one thing to 'know' this truth and another to communicate effectively in a way which is both credible and positive. I have to say I thought that once the 'anti-war', 'anti-globalisation', green, peace and justice movements got wind of 9/11 truth (and by now most activists within these movements have heard of the 9/11 truth movement) then I thought many more would have jumped on board and by now we would have an unstoppable band wagon. But I still believe the truth will out and eventually our (as in humanity's) victory is inevitable.

[John White]

Thanks John White, you always come up trumps with some good solid advice from a wider perspective.

And you always come up with the good questions worth addressing mate: could'nt do it without you!

[Mark Gobell]

I would add that you should choose your audience wisely.

Each of us only has so much time and so much energy.

I'm sure most of us have been through this loop a few times and it can be very frustrating and can lead to negativity.

Focus on what you want to achieve. Try to avoid the "big bang" approach.

Listen to the people you care about and interact with, frame your responses as small but significant leads to enable them to go further.

Few people respond well to an avalanche of detail.

Speaking of or about a third person often diffuses any interpersonal issues too.

Don't forget also that we all need a break now and then.

[keithm]

The trouble is,that if we let them get away with it,

they will continue and each time it will get worse.

I for one am not giving up as i have 3 kids,

and god forbid anyone of these monsters,destroying their lives like they did to so many others on 9/11.

[Frazzel]

"911 is bad news2 etc
point out that if the suffragettes gave up or the civil rights movement gave up because they thought they were helpless, what would have happened? At the moment times are difficult as we have had thatherism and new labour resulting in an attack on progressive social movements. the first step is knowing whats going on the next step is empowering oneself or each other. thats why i think its important to always link 911 to the wider picture and suggest practical things people can do such as networking, mutual aid, forming local groups etc. The whole thing is really about restructuring democracy from the grassroots up, to mean by for and of the people not by for of corporations or the ruling classess.

[Emmanuel]

I network in the small ways i can manage.
The movement is growing at an alarming rate but predominantly through the medium of the internet. This sets a change of consciousness in those who seek it and the others who hypnotised by the media are in a totally different world as far as i can see.

Without sounding like a snob those who want to get left behind will get what they ask for.
In some ways though the older generation could teach us a lot, as they have seen the tricks of the elite before. There are some that are less easily fooled, they still have not lost their faith in humanity.
Its a normal human trait to ignore problems and to cover it up with distractions and trinkets. This is what British contemporary society is, a zombie nation still going through the motions of their fortunate comfortable lives even though the new world order has been set in place and is edging closer to imprisoning them.

People love their authority figures. The newsreaders instruct people what to discuss what to fear and what to buy. It is this kind of barrier that i see as the waste of time, that generally people prefer to be subordinate to the cheaters and liars than do their own research.

[xmasdale]

We certainly do not give up due to the difficulties we encounter. Did the anti-slavery campaigners not ecounter difficulties and deal with despair? Or the suffragists or the gay rights campaigners or the anti-apartheid campaigners etc, as Frazzel so aptly reminds us?

Ian Neal is disappointed with the amount of time it is taking to achieve widespread support. I'm not. It's going quicker than I expected and I've been involved in a number of previous campaigns.

Leafletting last month for the premiere of Loose Change Final Cut, I was struck by the sea-change in attitude of members of the public I gave flyers to (compared to my first leafletting attempts about 9/11 three years ago). I got into lots of conversations with people and only encountered one negative comment: "I suppose this is another Michael Moore brainwashing type movie."

Sounds like you've been unlucky, Emmanuel, or perhaps that attitudes are different according to whom you approach. Sometimes I think the attitudes we get depend on our attitude while leafletting. I find it helpful to be cheerful with a smile, to avoid getting into arguments with people and when they express dismissive attitudes to ask them questions which make them think, such as, "How would you explain the collapse of WTC7?" It's also important to listen patiently to what they have to say, even when we think they're talking *. This enables us to modulate what we say to the listener's perceptions.

Now I find I'm increasingly encountering newcomers to our movement who have had some kind of initial contact with us often as long as two or three years ago. We could have dismissed them as useless at the time of initial contact, but since that the seeds then planted have germinated and grown; now they want to flower. We need to support them.

Nil desperandum.

[Skeptic]

Well said Noel.

You will almost certainly come across people who meet 9/11 Truth with scathing aggression and you will do well to ignore them not get sucked into petty arguments. Admittedly it took me a long time to realise this and longer to actually do it!

I'm not sure whether I'm satisfied or not with the progress as it's difficult to gauge this sort of thing.

I think current events are causing dissent and scepticism towards government to grow and fresh eyes will be cast over 9/11 as a result of this.

In hope.

[kbo234]

I understand what you are saying Emmanuel and if 9/11 is discussed in an isolated way, focussing on the minute detail and missing the big picture, divorced from the wider world and other popular progressive movements for change then it will have minimal impact and deserve to fail.

I think for the most part 911 truth is bad news, and who wants to hear bad news?

Catfish

9/11 is often widely perceived as 'bad news'. The reason I latched onto it is because it exposes the corruption and organised criminality at the heart of the global system and western 'democracies' and to me this is a 'good news' story and not a 'bad news' one. As a device to wake people up to this corruption and force people to hold their governments to account it is potentially very powerful, which is why it is being so strongly attacked by the MSM. But it does need to be communicated in a positive way, as a tool to build awareness of the corruption at the heart of the system and as a tool to build support for popular resistence to the system.

For all my working life, I've worked in international development. If you ever wanted evidence of an organised and systemic conspiracy, then the realities around global poverty and 'international development' are there for all to see. Don't imagine that most people (close to 4 billion people) in this world have to survive hand to mouth on less than $2/day by accident. Documentaries such as Pilger's The new rulers of the world do a v good job in explaining this but they only go so far.

The trouble I have working in 'international development' is that I no longer believe (if I ever did) that the 'international community' or the G8 is sincere in its protestations to Make Poverty History. A few pious words and a few empty promises and we all go back to sleep. Time to stop playing their game. Time to stop pretending to believe their empty rhetoric and bs and expose them for the serial liars and bs artists they are. Issues like 9/11 and 7/7 expose them to the core, but it is important to expose the full picture.

Now 9/11 (and conspiracy theories in general) has been attacked by many (eg Chomsky, Schnews, NFTB, Monbiot, etc, etc.) as a distraction and a simplistic analysis. Do 9/11 truthers not recognise that the world is a mess because of systemic failures, they argue? Whilst this is true up to a point (the system is institutionally corrupt in the way Chomsky and Pilger describe). It is the way it is precisely because it has been taken over by criminal elites. It is the failure of the likes of Chomsky, Galloway, Geldof and Monbiot (and other so-called radical voices out there) to speak this truth that perpuates the same turgid debates that change nothing.

To me 9/11 isn't about just exposing the Bush administration or the neo-cons. It is about exposing the whole shabang. All major governments of the world: their intelligence services, their media, their militaries, their politicians, their business elites: all are complicit in the cover-up of the truth. And not just 9/11 truth but all the related issues. 9/11 is potentially the key to ending war, ending poverty, ending environmental madness and heralding a new era of truth and 'justice'.

But it is one thing to 'know' this truth and another to communicate effectively in a way which is both credible and positive. I have to say I thought that once the 'anti-war', 'anti-globalisation', green, peace and justice movements got wind of 9/11 truth (and by now most activists within these movements have heard of the 9/11 truth movement) then I thought many more would have jumped on board and by now we would have an unstoppable band wagon. But I still believe the truth will out and eventually our (as in humanity's) victory is inevitable.

Excellent post Ian.

Thanks for that.

[IanFantom]

Have you ever hired a canal barge? The usual experience the first time is that you give the barge a mighty shove, and nothing happens. Then eventually you realise how to get it moving: you get half a dozen friends to gently lean on it, and off it goes.

For someone to change his whole thinking on what sort of world he lives in it takes more than one enthusiast having a go at him. But hearing similar stories from half a dozen people, from different angles, is likely to start the thing moving.

But then in the case of 9/11, there will be shaddowy figures pushing from the other side. I've been through it in the Esperanto movement.

Then eventually things do start moving. I shared Noel's amazing experience on the Loose Change publicity. Keep up the good work.

[xmasdale]

How many tugs and how long does it take to turn an oil tanker around?

Noel

[paul wright]

Hi Emmanuel
You know better than anyone how we turn people around, and it's not so much to do with argument, more to do with subtle changes to their environment and information feed
I'd wager you know this as good as anyone, much as you realise a sole independence on 9/11 information won't in itself turn people around
Those of us in the know have to reconfigure the environment so that those who haven't got it are prodded awake
And that's not by any means by purely challenging ways
I think I agree with you on this, Em, and am pleased you pointed out the limitations

[catfish]

Just to clarify my bad news comment. I don't mean you shouldn't tell folk, just be aware that if it's news to them it's most likely bad news. It's important to sympathise with your audience

It's easier sometimes to huff and puff with self righteousness but really that makes people not want to listen. A few choice tidbits without evangelism always yields the best results!

I agree with all the above posts.

Peace earthlings

[xmasdale]

An excellent attitude which I reckon generally works is that used by Calum/Snowygrouch in his public presentations. These presentations, besides being well researched and full of compelling audio-visual aids, IMHO have a tone which grabs people's interest. I think that tone can be summed up in a few words along the lines of:

"I couldn't really believe what people were saying about 9/11 so I decided to research it and this is what I discovered. Look at this. This is what I found. Astonishing isn't it? What do you make of it?"

It's a very modest unpreachy approach and I think we can all learn from it.

BTW if you want an excellent public meeting on 9/11, try inviting Calum/Snowygrouch to speak. Highly recommended!

Noel

[paul wright]

Just to clarify my bad news comment. I don't mean you shouldn't tell folk, just be aware that if it's news to them it's most likely bad news. It's important to sympathise with your audience

It's easier sometimes to huff and puff with self righteousness but really that makes people not want to listen. A few choice tidbits without evangelism always yields the best results!

I agree with all the above posts.

Peace earthlings

You should always have something to offer, positive, on the side, catfish
I'd agree with you there
Replacement of the "as is" with something different and not imitative is always a difficulty, though I believe you have some answers, or at least exploratory routes

[Emmanuel]

Thanks Paul,
I am modifying my surroundings every day. The orgone energy, reiki and colloidal silver are all dispelling all that NWo dust!
All good points brought up there. Its the language we use and the approach.
I personally think there needs to be more creative events that have 911 truth embedded in them. Who will join me? The name of the event will be something positive but non political and it will take place on 911 2008.
I am thinking art/music/djs/vjs - London/Leeds/Manchester

[Emmanuel]

Children offer 'our' boys some flowers.
What we really need is love and courage.

[William James]

We certainly do not give up due to the difficulties we encounter. Did the anti-slavery campaigners not ecounter difficulties and deal with despair? Or the suffragists or the gay rights campaigners or the anti-apartheid campaigners etc, as Frazzel so aptly reminds us?

Ian Neal is disappointed with the amount of time it is taking to achieve widespread support. I'm not. It's going quicker than I expected and I've been involved in a number of previous campaigns.

Leafletting last month for the premiere of Loose Change Final Cut, I was struck by the sea-change in attitude of members of the public I gave flyers to (compared to my first leafletting attempts about 9/11 three years ago). I got into lots of conversations with people and only encountered one negative comment: "I suppose this is another Michael Moore brainwashing type movie."

Sounds like you've been unlucky, Emmanuel, or perhaps that attitudes are different according to whom you approach. Sometimes I think the attitudes we get depend on our attitude while leafletting. I find it helpful to be cheerful with a smile, to avoid getting into arguments with people and when they express dismissive attitudes to ask them questions which make them think, such as, "How would you explain the collapse of WTC7?" It's also important to listen patiently to what they have to say, even when we think they're talking *. This enables us to modulate what we say to the listener's perceptions.

Now I find I'm increasingly encountering newcomers to our movement who have had some kind of initial contact with us often as long as two or three years ago. We could have dismissed them as useless at the time of initial contact, but since that the seeds then planted have germinated and grown; now they want to flower. We need to support them.

Nil desperandum.

But did not the "Slavery Campaign have a famous pres behind it?

[xmasdale]

But did not the "Slavery Campaign have a famous pres behind it?

It didn't in the British Empire where abolition was achieved many years before the US, nor did it in the French Empire where the Revolution put paid to slavery. Put not your faith in presidents, nor in any other politicians. I believe Abe Lincoln had quite other motives to his launching the US Civil War than empathy with the slaves in the south. Do politicians ever act from altruistic motives?

[rodin]

No