I'm out

[Mick Meaney]

I've watched a movement that could have once been an effective and credible campaign that focused on very serious issues become something which makes me feel ashamed to be apart of. For years the sensible approach has been ignored in favour of irrational, sensationalistic and unfounded claims. I'm done fighting it. I'm out.

[WyldeChylde]

As an integral part of this movement, I'm sure you're more aware of its current state than I could be, and I'm sure you have dwelled on this decision for some time before reaching your conclusion.

Whilst I do understand what you're saying, can I ask that you elaborate a bit? I mean, this 'movement' is bloody important, and could still in my eyes potentially be very effective. What, in your eyes, needs improving and how?

[telecasterisation]

As an integral part of this movement, I'm sure you're more aware of its current state than I could be, and I'm sure you have dwelled on this decision for some time before reaching your conclusion.

Whilst I do understand what you're saying, can I ask that you elaborate a bit? I mean, this 'movement' is bloody important, and could still in my eyes potentially be very effective. What, in your eyes, needs improving and how?

What an interesting question, though I personally find it highly loaded.

If someone with no knowledge of 'this movement' read what you have written, they could be excused in thinking that there is some form of 'organisation' dedicated to truth and justice. Whilst in the main, many would say that is true – but one must ask, 'Is it?'.

I would say that perhaps three years ago, that would have been a lot truer than today. Your ‘Loose Change’ style documentaries captured the imagination of the uninitiated and rolled through family units and the workplaces on freely distributed CD's, but I see no evidence of this now - focus has been replaced by environmental issues and the cost of living. The intended release of the final cut of Loose Change may have placed a different emphasis on where we are today, but it never happened. This is a pity, for it would have been well timed and a much needed push to swing the pendulum back the other way. Opportunity wasted? I’d say yes. Opportunity somehow deliberately holed below the waterline? Who can say?

One could argue that our current global problems have all been artificially generated to avert the spotlight from such issues as 911, maybe so, but engineered or not, we are in a directionless void with no obvious leader and little to no cohesion. The subject of 911 is now lost in a plethora of inane and pointless debate about a thousand and one other conspiracies and associated dross.

I believe the turning point came 18 months ago when the subject of a ’Walk For Truth’ was raised, essentially meaning truthers would spread the 911 word by hoofing it from Land’s End to John O’Groats. There was initially much gung ho’ing, but when it came down to it – people just couldn’t be bothered, the bell sounded and the exhalation of air was almost tangible – ‘Thank God, I thought I was actually going to have to do something other than sit here and type’.

Certainly, the hardcore meet, discuss, plan this and that, move the various bits of AV equipment from one part of the country to another, but when you really look at ‘this movement being bloody important’, I mean really look, things have changed so much that, everything has been picked over, prodded, laughed at (NPT did us a huge disservice) so many times, it is all pretty much over.

Unless something or someone comes forward that puts 911 back on the table, it will just perpetuate over the decades as another Pearl Harbour, Moon Landing, JFK ad infinitum curiosity.

What needs improving and how? How can you possibly ask that question and keep a straight face?

[jm]

Maybe we can think in terms of 'putting 9/11 Truth on our own table'.

I think about the mentality of those behind the cover-up. What kind of future are they building for the rest of us? How many lives have they destroyed? How many more will they destroy?

I think of bereaved families with tears in their eyes, and of arrogant politicians denying them the truth.

I think of academics and professionals who give us the ammunition to shoot down the official story.

I wish that all the information were laid out neatly in one place, proven & certified as 100% reliable. I guess that would be too easy. So I suffer the unpleasantness of uncivil members of both 'camps'.

I worry about finding the most reliable material. I do get disheartened by the enormity of the 9/11 Truth task.

But I carry on. I am no hero. I am worried about the future. I am horrified and angered by what I believe was mass murder by, or at the behest of, the Bush government on September 11th.

So I do what I can. It's not much. I just feel driven by something inside. A mix of fear, anger and hope.

[scienceplease]

I'm with Jim. I don't know why Mick is burnt out. But this is a subject that will not go away and affects everyone's future.

[TonyGosling]

Moved to controversies

BTW all the best with www.rinf.com Mick it's looking good.

Trying to compete with Google News no wonder you're burning out...

[Newspeak International]

The subject of 911 is now lost in a plethora of inane and pointless debate about a thousand and one other conspiracies and associated dross.

No Tele the subject of the 9/11 hoax is not lost.9/11 is the spring-board for all that has followed since,and awakened many to some of the "real history" of some events that happened way before.In fact I would say
that it was easier now to show the drive toward this 'one world government' to *people than ever before.

*except for those trapped in tee-vee land

[paul wright]

All respect to Mick. He's one hell of a guy.
Anyway as we know, push is coming to shove very fast, hour by hour, day by day.
Many people stupified currently by TV and other media, left/right ideologies, religious entrancement etc, are going to be forced out of their comfort zones very shortly by the downward spiralling of economic conditions, environmental changes and the spreading mayhem, all caused with deliberation.
The apparatus of state worldwide is being set in place for this.
The diversification of message, while seeming like a weakening of the central 9/11 key, provides additional information that may take root in people's heads or hearts.
We can only do what we can do, and 9/11 is an issue worth constantly pushing, but for our own sanity we can't seem like endlessly looping fools
We have to extend as we have done
This forum and it's two offshoots will continue to do the right thing
We're entering 'valley of death' processes right now, and it's easy to become hopeless as the odds are stacked up against us.
Still, I'm pretty sure we'll come out shining

[chrisc]

For years the sensible approach has been ignored in favour of irrational, sensationalistic and unfounded claims.

Uh-hu, like nuclear reactors at the WTC...

[paul wright]

And what's the problem with suggesting that scenario, Chris?
We need to explore all the possibilities. Not fight over them. That only supplies energy to those in control.

[chrisc]

And what's the problem with suggesting that scenario, Chris?

It's a very good example of "irrational, sensationalistic and unfounded claims"...

[Mick Meaney]

To answer your questions I'll be writing an article about the truth movement, there's too much to say that can be said in a forum post. It's not burn out and I'm not trying to compete with Google News.

Thanks for your well wishes.

And Chris, still posting that old s**t I see. Milk it for all it's worth fella. You're like a broken record and a prime example of the idiocy within this movement, despite being given an explanation you still insist your conspiracy theory is right. Grow up and look at the facts instead of creating a fantasy world for yourself.

Now let me ask you, do you see my name on that article? Is the article even still on rinf? Do you understand how open publishing works? Being involved with Indymedia you should understand how questionable articles slip through from time to time. Since I've already given you the explanation before, none of what I say will matter since you've already made up your mind without examining the facts.

Now if I were as much of a conspiracy theorist as yourself, I might think that you were the one who published the article to create drama/ start a smear campaign of my site. Of course I don't believe this, but hey making up conspiracy theories is fun right? Anyone can do it

The way you highlight the more bizzare aspects of 9/11 truth you are in fact promoting these theories like a cheerleader. You have in effect (and repeatedly) just distributed that information to a wider audience, so for whoever wrote and published that article have you to thank for still making sure people read (and god forbid) believe it.

[paul wright]

The article provides some small evidence for some of those claims so is not sensational or anything else. It's exploratory mostly
Why are people so hyped up with their own belief systems that they can't allow anything else? I guess its the state of mass hypnosis we're under

[Newspeak International]

Still, I'm pretty sure we'll come out shining

That'll be the depleted uranium!

[chrisc]

do you see my name on that article?

No, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I do see your name on one that ends with:

PS: Why was Prof Judy Wood not asked to explain the 911 physics?

[TonyGosling]

Chris could maybe spend a little of his time finding out why Bristol Indymedia is no longer 'hiding' articles and comments its editors don't approve off the front page but hiding them so they cannot be viewed ie. effectively 'deleting' them.

Yes I know Indymedia is a can of worms m8.

Hiding, in the Indymedia sense...
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/B ... rialPolicy
...means not endorsing them on the front page (much like our controversies sections here) but putting them a couple of clicks away. Not making them IMPOSSIBLE to view. Indymedia makes the distinction between hiding and deleting, Bristol Indymedia doesn't.

So as its no longer signed up to the laudable Indymedia policies above then why is it allowed to use the name?

Get the log out of your eye before telling other people how to edit stuff Chris. We do pretty well here balancing big global news with utter poppycock and being transparent in the process. And I think not necessarily you, but Indymedia, could learn a lot from that.

[Dallas]

There was initially much gung ho’ing, but when it came down to it – people just couldn’t be bothered, the bell sounded and the exhalation of air was almost tangible – ‘Thank God, I thought I was actually going to have to do something other than sit here and type’.

There's our biggest problem right there. For every 100 keyboard warriors, maybe 1 will spend an afternoon holding a banner or distributing pamphlets.

[chrisc]

Get the log out of your eye before telling other people how to edit stuff Chris.

This isn't about editing, just over a year ago Mick was endorsing all sorts:

http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/rinf ... -2007/252/

And now it's because of all this stuff that the "movement" is going nowhere...

For what it's worth this is what I said about the agenda of this event before hand:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/05/ ... on#c172773

And this is what I said in a comment following Mick's review of it:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/05/ ... on#c174097

[fish5133]

I'm done fighting it. I'm out.

No your not Mick, you cant start denying the truth it doesnt work. You will be talking and telling people 911 was an inside job till the day you die. Its like a conversion experience that the Apostle Paul had on the road to Damascus. Once youve seen the light you cant start denying it. Only the method of fighting changes instead of being a frontline troop do things quietly keep plodding away.

good on ya

[Mick Meaney]

do you see my name on that article?

No, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I do see your name on one that ends with:

PS: Why was Prof Judy Wood not asked to explain the 911 physics?

That was a letter from John Blacker who claims to trying to sue the BBC, you expect me to edit someones letter? Think on.

With the wacky stuff, I will listen to their point of view, I will give it my time every now and then but we have been shown time and time again that it doesn't hold any water. We have to look at the evidence before we reach that conclusion. This is called progress Chris, we don't all reach the time POV at the same time do we?

Maybe if you spent more time working on your truth movement instead of acting like a cannibalistic vampire you'd be getting somewhere.

And fish5133, was 9/11 and inside job? I'm not so sure it was and it's making statements like that which has turned many, many people away from the truth movement.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, we've all made *-ups along the way but taking measures to make sure they don't happen again is a vital step in overall progress.

[chrisc]

That was a letter from John Blacker who claims to trying to sue the BBC, you expect me to edit someones letter? Think on.

No I wouldn't expect you to edit it, but I don't expect sites that claim to try to avoid disinfo to promote letters in support of the work of Judy Woods, I'm aware you didn't write those words but you did endorse them.

[Mick Meaney]

The point Mr Blacker was trying to make outweighed a line at the bottom which mentions some loon, or so I thought at the time.

[chrisc]

The point Mr Blacker was trying to make outweighed a line at the bottom which mentions some loon, or so I thought at the time.

Fair enough, we all make mistakes

[fish5133]

Mick asks

And fish5133, was 9/11 and inside job? I'm not so sure it was and it's making statements like that which has turned many, many people away from the truth movement.

In my simple mind it only takes one or two steps to arrive at that conclusion.

1) The manner of "collapse" of WTCs 1,2 and 7 could not have been caused by just planes and fire. Just watching them shows they were exploding to pieces not falling

2) Given this obvious fact why should the US Govt want to come up with some other c*** and bull story

3) Leads me to 2 conclusions either it was an inside job needing a cover up or a cover up was needed to hide the embarrassment of external powers infiltrating US.

4) The inside job false flag idea has some precedent in US political and military strategy. (Northwood Document)

5) I had also seriously considered that it was an Act of God another Tower of Babel incident but i discounted this on the fact that God wouldnt have needed to use planes (or pretend planes) depending on your point of view.

[911Eyewitness]

Chris, still posting that old s**t I see.

Oh yes, he is. Somethings will never change. It's the jobsworth mate. Leave him. He will disolve into himself.

[gordboy]

... well up to a point.

My difficulties with the antics of some of the people here are well-documented. There is a tendency for people to assume a mantle of smug self-congratulatory grandeur.

The fact of the matter is this :

None of us know the full story. We are losing the battle.

I know that sounds defeatist. But despite that, I'm going to keep on doing what I do, which is bringing people to the 9/11 debate.

And I am going to continue to criticise people here who think they know it all. Simply shouting "We need more unity, all this arguing is pointless" is a waste of time, and shows how little people really understand the long process of change.

In my book, the very first people to shout "Unity" are the very ones who are most to blame for the perceived disunity.

[911Eyewitness]

I've watched a movement that could have once been an effective and credible campaign that focused on very serious issues

Good going Mick, stay organizational independent. Organization means capitulation and homogenization and the only good thing that came out of that was - well there must have been something.

Did you get the druggy eyes of Professor Jones? The ham hock pat on the back from uncle Fetzer? The suggestions to investigate thermite and forget the rest from the Jones pack-o-rats? The insane in the membrane march of sub-space time capsules? What was it that finally woke you?

I had them all, but the threats of broken bones for not taking the bribes from the 911truth org got me out before I was in. An organization is nothing more than a group gathering for the government’s identification and target practice. No way to win a war being a target.

The UK has had the most sophisticated infiltration system long before the USA had nappies. Every council has its network of grassers and sounders ready to do what is needed for queen and country (along with money and privilege).

[outsider]

fish, we're not just talking Northwoods as another 'False Flag' 'casus belli';
there's the 'Gulf of Tonkin Incident'; 'Mr. Polk's War'; probably the 'Maine';
Pearl Harbor ('False Flag' with a difference); it's been a classic way of starting wars through the centuries.

I must admit, I find it incredible that Mick, after so long in the struggle, isn.t sure it was an 'Inside Job'.

Anyhow, here's another clincher video:

If you haven't seen this already, it's well worth watching. Aaron Russo certainly spills the NWO beans (he 'developed' cancer in 2001, after spurning Nick Rockeller's attempt to recruit him, and speaking out on 9/11; he died in 2007):

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 0426590918